The Magi: Who Where They?

mark kennedy · Dec 22, 2018

Some things that don't really come through in the Nativity:

The Magi were a hereditary priesthood tribe. In other words, they were like the Levites in Israel.
The Magi were really the key people in the government of the East.
Historians tell us that they controlled the judicial office as well as the kingly office.
Politically speaking, Rome was scared of the Eastern Empire.
The estimates of history are they came with Persian cavalry.

Herod had to fight the Persians in 40 BC in order to be King of the Jews:

They made Herod the king of the Jews and they said, “You take an army,” and they gave him an army. They gave him some crack troops, and they said, “You go and you carve out your own kingdom over there and you run your own show.”

Well you know, it took him three years to do it? It took him three years to finally gain the power he had in title. Finally, in 37 B.C., he won and he became king of the Jews, and that is a title that he maintained until he died. He always tried to maintain the title king of the Jews.

It's from a series by John MacArthur on Grace to You. I thought it might be an interesting historical perspective so close to Christmas:

Who Were the Wisemen?
Fools and Wisemen, Part 1.
Fools and Wisemen, Part 2.

yeshuaslavejeff · Dec 22, 2018

Some of the information is (most likely) good, and when it is right can be verified on other trustworthy sites, ,
but the source (j.m.) is exposed as fraudulent/anti-Scripture on many sites.
TEST EVERYTHING.

Brightmoon · Dec 22, 2018

I always liked the traditional story that had them being different races . I finally got to smell frankincense a few years ago . A pleasant lemony smell that reminded me of old fashioned furniture polish. It’s very inexpensive too which surprised me as I know that it was worth its weight in gold in past centuries .

David Kent · Dec 22, 2018

Well for start the bible doesn't say ther were three.
And the didn't come 12 days after Jesis was borm. When he was 8 days old Jesus was ccircumcised. When he was 40 days old Mary had to go to Jerusalem for purificattion Lev 12:2-3 Luke 2:22. and then they returned to Galillee, Luke 2:39. It seems that they must have returned to Bethlehem after that, as jesu must have been nearly2 when the wise men arrived.

redleghunter · Dec 22, 2018

David Kent said:
Well for start the bible doesn't say ther were three.
And the didn't come 12 days after Jesis was borm. When he was 8 days old Jesus was ccircumcised. When he was 40 days old Mary Lev 12:2-3 Luke 2:22. and then they returned to Galillee, Luke 2:39. It seems that they must have returned to Bethlehem after that, as jesu must have been nearly2 when the wise men arrived.

When I did a harmony of the two birth accounts it does not clearly indicate the Magi found Jesus in Bethlehem.

Matthew 2: NASB
1Now after Jesus was born in Bethlehem of Judea in the days of Herod the king, magi from the east arrived in Jerusalem, saying,2“Where is He who has been born King of the Jews? For we saw His star in the east and have come to worship Him.” 3When Herod the king heard this, he was troubled, and all Jerusalem with him.4Gathering together all the chief priests and scribes of the people, he inquired of them where the Messiah was to be born. 5They said to him, “In Bethlehem of Judea; for this is what has been written by the prophet:

6‘AND YOU, BETHLEHEM, LAND OF JUDAH,
ARE BY NO MEANS LEAST AMONG THE LEADERS OF JUDAH;
FOR OUT OF YOU SHALL COME FORTH A RULER
WHO WILL SHEPHERD MY PEOPLE ISRAEL.’”

7Then Herod secretly called the magi and determined from them the exact time the star appeared. 8And he sent them to Bethlehem and said, “Go and search carefully for the Child; and when you have found Him, report to me, so that I too may come and worship Him.” 9After hearing the king, they went their way; and the star, which they had seen in the east, went on before them until it came and stood over the place where the Child was.10When they saw the star, they rejoiced exceedingly with great joy.11After coming into the house they saw the Child with Mary His mother; and they fell to the ground and worshiped Him. Then, opening their treasures, they presented to Him gifts of gold, frankincense, and myrrh. 12And having been warned by God in a dream not to return to Herod, the magi left for their own country by another way.

So not iron clad the Holy family was still in Bethlehem. The star led them to the location.

Also Jesus called child and they live in a house.

mark kennedy · Dec 22, 2018

What I liked about the whole exposition from an historical perspective was that Herod had good reason to be worried that these guys wanted to worship the one born King of the Jews. He fought them for three years to secure his place and had things gone differently, they could have backed Jesus' claim to the throne. They didn't ride in on camels, they rode in on Arabian steeds with cavalry, while Herod's army was out of town. Daniel had been in charge of the Medes (or Magi), while he served in the Babylonian courts and apparently left a lasting impression. God had been revealing things to Gentiles that even many of the Jews didn't see coming when the Messiah was born.

Most importantly, they worshiped him. I'd love to have the bibliography John MacArthur compiled for this lesson but found those insights very interesting.

mark kennedy · Dec 22, 2018

redleghunter said:
When I did a harmony of the two birth accounts it does not clearly indicate the Magi found Jesus in Bethlehem.

Matthew 2: NASB
1Now after Jesus was born in Bethlehem of Judea in the days of Herod the king, magi from the east arrived in Jerusalem, saying,2“Where is He who has been born King of the Jews? For we saw His star in the east and have come to worship Him.” 3When Herod the king heard this, he was troubled, and all Jerusalem with him.4Gathering together all the chief priests and scribes of the people, he inquired of them where the Messiah was to be born. 5They said to him, “In Bethlehem of Judea; for this is what has been written by the prophet:

6‘AND YOU, BETHLEHEM, LAND OF JUDAH,
ARE BY NO MEANS LEAST AMONG THE LEADERS OF JUDAH;
FOR OUT OF YOU SHALL COME FORTH A RULER
WHO WILL SHEPHERD MY PEOPLE ISRAEL.’”

7Then Herod secretly called the magi and determined from them the exact time the star appeared. 8And he sent them to Bethlehem and said, “Go and search carefully for the Child; and when you have found Him, report to me, so that I too may come and worship Him.” 9After hearing the king, they went their way; and the star, which they had seen in the east, went on before them until it came and stood over the place where the Child was.10When they saw the star, they rejoiced exceedingly with great joy.11After coming into the house they saw the Child with Mary His mother; and they fell to the ground and worshiped Him. Then, opening their treasures, they presented to Him gifts of gold, frankincense, and myrrh. 12And having been warned by God in a dream not to return to Herod, the magi left for their own country by another way.

So not iron clad the Holy family was still in Bethlehem. The star led them to the location.

Also Jesus called child and they live in a house.

John talks about that star, he doesn't seem to think it was an actual star, he thinks it was the shekinah glory that hung over the city. I had never heard that before, but it kind of fits with some of the things in the Pentateuch regarding the presence of God.

I just think it's natural to wonder, who were they and what were these Gentiles doing there? The sitting king wants him dead, the rest of Jerusalem was afraid and the pious clerics betray him to Herod who tries to kill him. In the midst of all of that these pagan, I guess that's what they were, clerics who worshiped him. Just fascinating.

You know since Nehemiah no son of David sat on the throne? Until Jesus, that's what a lot of people liked to call him, son of David. The throne was promised to David and his descendants. I would think well read Jewish scholars would have understood that.

Grace and peace,
Mark

mark kennedy · Dec 23, 2018

David Kent said:
Well for start the bible doesn't say ther were three.
And the didn't come 12 days after Jesis was borm. When he was 8 days old Jesus was ccircumcised. When he was 40 days old Mary Lev 12:2-3 Luke 2:22. and then they returned to Galillee, Luke 2:39. It seems that they must have returned to Bethlehem after that, as jesu must have been nearly2 when the wise men arrived.

I've heard that before, that they stayed in Bethlehem for some time. I don't know about 2 years but I think it took Herod a while to decide to kill him, which lead Mary and Joseph to flee to Egypt.

mark kennedy · Dec 23, 2018

Brightmoon said:
I always liked the traditional story that had them being different races . I finally got to smell frankincense a few years ago . A pleasant lemony smell that reminded me of old fashioned furniture polish. It’s very inexpensive too which surprised me as I know that it was worth its weight in gold in past centuries .

How interesting, I guess it comes from tree resin and there are a lot of ways of mixing it. It was used in the sacrifices, the meal offering actually had bread mixed with this aromatic ingredient. In Jerusalem when they were burning these offerings the smell must have been amazing.

prodromos · Dec 23, 2018

Who were they?
Gaspar, Melchior and Balthasar.

The Magi | A Russian Orthodox Church Website

mark kennedy · Dec 23, 2018

prodromos said:
Who were they?
Gaspar, Melchior and Balthasar.

The Magi | A Russian Orthodox Church Website

I have always found it interesting that tradition believes the names of these men are known. I don't know but this part caught my attention:

The Holy Fathers tell us that this star can be compared to the miraculous pillar of fire, which stood in the camp by night during Israel’s Exodus, or the light from heaven, which overwhelmed Saul on his way to Damascus.

I cleared up a couple of the typos in that. That was one of the things I found interesting in John MacArthur's exposition, he seems to think it was the Shekinah. It makes sense when you think about it, although I don't really consider that to be a mystical approach. That light could get so bright in the Tabernacle it drove the Levites out, and when the children of Israel wanted to kill Joshua and Caleb it fixed itself above the tabernacle discouraging the effort. It was in the Holy of Holies and when God removed the Ark, the Shekinah went with it. When God said let there be light in creation, I think that might have been the initial light used before the clouds started being cleared so the sun could reach the surface of the earth.

I don't know, maybe it was a star, or maybe something else was going on there. It just makes sense to me that at the incarnation the Shekinah would mark the spot where he was born. A fascinating thought to be sure.

Grace and peace,
Mark

robycop3 · Mar 11, 2019

The magi were Persian astrologers, who'd almost certainly heard that Messiah was coming in stories passed down thru the centuries after the Jews had lived among the Persians. (Remember, Daniel & his Jewish friends were important officials in the Persian court, as was Mordecai and Nehemiah in later years. In fact, Nehemiah was so-important that he was the king's winetaster, an office that went to the person the king trusted more than any other person. Thus, there was plenty of Scriptural lore left among the Persians, & the later magi were also historians, so the magi of Scripture were familiar with the story of the coming Messiah.)

friend of · Mar 11, 2019

I learned last Christmas that there were probably more than 3 of them. Which blew my mind.

Sorry for not adding anything substantive to your thread. I do find them fascinating in a way. I always wonder how they deciphered the information that Jesus was born.

David Kent · Mar 13, 2019

robycop3 said:
The magi were Persian astrologers, who'd almost certainly heard that Messiah was coming in stories passed down thru the centuries after the Jews had lived among the Persians. (Remember, Daniel & his Jewish friends were important officials in the Persian court, as was Mordecai and Nehemiah in later years. In fact, Nehemiah was so-important that he was the king's winetaster, an office that went to the person the king trusted more than any other person. Thus, there was plenty of Scriptural lore left among the Persians, & the later magi were also historians, so the magi of Scripture were familiar with the story of the coming Messiah.)

I agree partly with that.
The bible doesn't say they were Persians, Magi were Baylonians, and Medes and possibly Persian as well as opther countries. The imposter who took the kingdom after the death of Cyrus' son, Cambyses was described by Herodotus and Josephus as the Magi, and he was a Mede.

Secondly the bible ddoesn't say there were three, just that there were three gifts. There may have been two, three or more.

Herod asked when the star appeared, and based on that he had all the children up to two years killed. That could suggest that it was nearly two years when it appeared. Which could suggest that they could have come from much furter east than Persia as it would only take a month or so to get from Persia.

On the other hand, it could have taken them time to get ready for the journey.

Daniel's prophecies were written in Babylon and Persia, so thry could have had access to those from the Jews, especially Dn 9 where it was said that Messiah would come after 69 weeks from the proclamation of Cyrus for the Jews to return and build the temple and City. Josephus said that Cyrus was shown the prophecy of Isaiah, which is almost certainly true as Cyrus said.

EZRA 1:2 Thus saith Cyrus king of Persia, The LORD God of heaven hath given me all the kingdoms of the earth; and he hath charged me to build him an house at Jerusalem, which is in Judah.

Cyrus took that as a solemn charge or order.

David Kent · Mar 13, 2019

mark kennedy said:
I don't know, maybe it was a star, or maybe something else was going on there. It just makes sense to me that at the incarnation the Shekinah would mark the spot where he was born. A fascinating thought to be sure.

I have read that it was a conjunction of Jupiter and another planet that would have been extra bright, and those planets marked the birth of kings. I think the wise men would have known that by astrology.

mark kennedy · Mar 13, 2019

David Kent said:
I have read that it was a conjunction of Jupiter and another planet that would have been extra bright, and those planets marked the birth of kings. I think the wise men would have known that by astrology.

I honestly have no idea where they got that sign of a star from. Speculation abounds, some even suggesting it wasn't a star vut the shekinah glory of God. They did get some kind of revelation through dreams, I wonder if Daniels influence during the Medo-Persian empire had not endured as one of the traditions.

The Magi: Who Where They?

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