If the Bible is so cut and dry why do no two Christians agree on doctrine?

yeshuaslavejeff

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We are not under the Kingdom gospel preached in the gospel accounts and Peter, James, John and Jude they’re all addressed to Jews and the Twelve Tribes if you read carefully. 2 gospels, one for the Bride of Christ (Jews) one for the Body of Christ (Gentiles).

We can’t please God with works because that brings us our own self righteousness. We are faith alone by grace alone.
So good, partly....
the good works Yahweh prepared for Jews AND gentiles who get saved in Christ Jesus,
when
is someone going to do those good works ?

Those in Christ Jesus, both Jews and gentiles, EVERY DAY !
 
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Kenny'sID

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I can show them scripture but unless they deny their pride and realize that they are a sinner and will never be able to please God without their faith then there is a chance for them.

Another of many dirty tricks you people use. You are not telling the truth.

I'll show you what I mean if you will answer a couple of questions:

1)Where did anyone, I mean even one person here, say we weren't sinners?

2)And where did anyone here say they didn't have faith?
 
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Don Maurer

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Whether it's eternal security or some other basic truth of scripture how come no two Christians will agree with the Bible? I mean there are Christians out there that dont even believe that belief is good enough for salvation when the Bible clearly says "believe in Christ and you will be saved" in multiple spots. I mean its extremely difficult to get the truth out of scripture because everyone will interpret a particular verse differently. Why isn't there just one huge believe all belief that one can pick and say "Okay I believe that. Yay! I am saved now!"? Why all the divisions in the church and among Christians? What is the truth about scripture?
The answer to this question involves several different things. First, it was intended by God that people would be tested by God to see if they actually have a heart to know him. Second, there is the issue of the perspicuity of the scriptures. Last, many of the doctrines are actually agreed upon by those who hold a high view of the scriptures. I intend to comment on each of the three areas that related to the above question.

THE SCRIPTURES WILL TEST A PERSON TO SEE IF HE LOVES GOD
Deut 13:1-4 If there arise in the midst of thee a prophet, or a dreamer of dreams, and he give thee a sign or a wonder, and the sign or the wonder come to pass, whereof he spake unto thee, saying, Let us go after other gods, which thou hast not known, and let us serve them; thou shalt not hearken unto the words of that prophet, or unto that dreamer of dreams: for Jehovah your God proveth you, to know whether ye love Jehovah your God with all your heart and with all your soul. Ye shall walk after Jehovah your God, and fear him, and keep his commandments, and obey his voice, and ye shall serve him, and cleave unto him.

When Israel made their covenant with God, one of the stipulations that is frequently repeated in the Covenant literature of the OT is the phrase "and obey his voice." If one obey's his voice, it will demonstrate that such a person "love Jehovah your God with all your heart and with all your soul (another concept repeated many times in Deuteronomy).

The prophets of the OT were called the "mouth" of God. They gave God's word. However, many false prophets arose and this tested the people of Israel if they actually had a heart for God.

God did not stop testing his people to see if they have a heart and soul to obey him. While there were false prophets in the OT, there are false teachers in the NT. ----->See 2 Peter 2:1 "But there arose false prophets also among the people, as among you also there shall be false teachers, who shall privily bring in destructive heresies, denying even the Master that bought them, bringing upon themselves swift destruction." Later, Peter would say in 2 Peter 3:15-16 And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also, according to the wisdom given to him, wrote unto you; as also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; wherein are some things hard to be understood, which the ignorant and unstedfast wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.

Scriptures are taken out of context by some. With some it is merely a subtle error, with others it is an outright false teaching that is dangerous to the soul. According to the last verses, it seems Paul's writings were very much abused in the early Church.

PERSPICUITY OF THE SCRIPTURES
There is another doctrine that relates to this discussion. It is called "perspicuity of scripture." This teaching states that many of the doctrines of the scripture are in fact clear. This does not mean that each and every of the smallest details are obvious. It allows for some more difficult doctrines that are more difficult to grasp and understand. I am not going to comment allot on this issue. I would recommend reading some others on this issue. You can start with wiki
Clarity of scripture - Wikipedia
The Perspicuity of Scripture by Burk Parsons

THE NATURE OF THE SCRIPTURES
What I mean by the nature of the scriptures concerns doctrines such as infallibility, inerrancy, inspiration, sola scriptura, etc. Here different denominations and their views of scriptural authority come into play. Denominational views of the authority of scripture often determines the views of how to understand the teachings of the scriptures. Those who take the bible as only one of several authorities will not come up with the same result as those who take the view of sola scriptura.

THE BOTTOM LINE----------> The bottom line is that it is not necessarily the scriptures fault that there are so many views of what the scriptures teach. The problem is what baggage to we bring with us when we come to the scriptures. The heart that seeks to know God, will find him. Such a heart, only God can give.
 
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hid in him

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No, I don't think you do understand, I get my Doctrine from the bible as a whole, I don't cherry pick. There is a reason for every verse in the bible.

I agree.

All the Bible is for us (Christians) but it’s not all to us (Christians).
Only Romans to Philemon is directed to Christians because Paul is the Apostle to the Gentiles and all his letters say I’m writing to you the Gentiles.
Genesis to the middle of Acts and Hebrews - Revelation is all to Isreal.
It’s there in the text clear as black and white.
Rightly divide the word.
Isreal and the Body of Christ.
Don’t take my word for it read it and discover it for yourself it’s amazing!

I know your first instinct is to ignore it because it’s new and that was my instinct too but now I see it and I want every believer too to.

Peace be with you.
Read the King James.
 
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Kenny'sID

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Correct I don’t believe that salvation is by faith and works I believe it is by faith alone by grace alone.

We've established that already, in that you don't believe we have to do as Christ tells us to do in order to get to heaven. I believe we do because Christ said we did, and I 'believe" in the Christ that said we had to take care of the poor or go to hell, and have faith he is being truthful..
 
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Kenny'sID

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It’s there in the text clear as black and white.
Rightly divide the word.
Isreal and the Body of Christ.
Don’t take my word for it read it and discover it for yourself it’s amazing!

OK, read this for yourself and then tell me we don't have to do as Christ says:

Matt 25:41-46 “Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.’ “They also will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?’ “He will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.’ “Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.”
 
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hid in him

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We've established that already, in that you don't believe we have to do as Christ tells us to do in order to get to heaven. I believe we do because Christ said we did, and I 'believe" in the Christ that said we had to take care of the poor or go to hell, and have faith he is being truthful..

I believe what Our Lord Jesus revealed and said through the Apostle Paul that says He did a complete work what He started He will finish and if He completed us by accepting the free gift of grace and nothing by ourselves then our salvation is assured and we face no more hell, condemnation or judgment.

Our Lord Jesus Christ preached Hell and judgment to the Jews recorded in the gospels to the Jews. Christians can and should read the whole Bible but it’s not all for our salvation but rather for our understanding of how God deals with Israel and to learn from their mistakes and see the mercy of God to the Gentiles, using us to make Israel jealous.

The Lord Jesus Christ is my redeemer, he is above Paul but I acknowledge that Christ has different messages for the Bride and the Body.
 
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hid in him

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OK, read this for yourself and then tell me we don't have to do as Christ says:

Matt 25:41-46 “Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.’ “They also will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?’ “He will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.’ “Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.”

Jewish audience Jewish Gospel.

Obviously do what the Spirit inclines you to do.
My point was don’t let any of us just be a do gooder under the delusion that it will bring us merit before God because it won’t.
Christ Jesus has done the complete work in us if we believe in Him alone and not just n Him with a bit of us or us with a bit of Him.

My stressing this point is for the benefit of all readers including myself.

Peace be with you.
 
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Jewish audience Jewish Gospel.
I disagree. The gospel is for all people, Jew and Gentile alike. Rightly dividing between grace and law is what we must be mindful of. When Jesus spoke to the Jews, He was speaking from law showing how inadequate the law is for salvation.You see, the law was still in effect while Lord Jesus walked and ministered on the Earth. But, when He was crucified, the Law was nailed to the cross with Him,crucified, dead and buried.
 
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hid in him

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What does that mean? Where was Christ specific on who he was talking to there? I've heard some real doozies designed to evade that question, but yours is a first.

Christ Jesus himself tells us in the gospels that during his earthly ministry he was sent to the Jews and expressly told his disciples not to go into any Samaritan or Gentiles villages. The Kingdom gospel was preached to the Jews.
They have a land and a city given to them.
Our inheritence isn’t earthly it’s heavenly.
 
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Kenny'sID

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I disagree. The gospel is for all people, Jew and Gentile alike. Rightly dividing between grace and law is what we must be mindful of. When Jesus spoke to the Jews, He was speaking from law showing how inadequate the law is for salvation.You see, the law was still in effect while Lord Jesus walked and ministered on the Earth. But, when He was crucified, the Law was nailed to the cross with Him,crucified, dead and buried.

What Christ spoke of there in the Sheep/Goats scripture was happening on the day of judgment, something that would come well after his crucifixion.
 
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hid in him

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I disagree. The gospel is for all people, Jew and Gentile alike. Rightly dividing between grace and law is what we must be mindful of. When Jesus spoke to the Jews, He was speaking from law showing how inadequate the law is for salvation.You see, the law was still in effect while Lord Jesus walked and ministered on the Earth. But, when He was crucified, the Law was nailed to the cross with Him,crucified, dead and buried.

The gospels are for all but not to all for salvation.
 
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hid in him

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What Christ spoke of there in the Sheep/Goats scripture was happening on the day of judgment, something that would come well after his crucifixion.

Revelation is also about Isreal.
Christians are not under judgment.
Christ takes our sins away with His blood if this is false then the cross was in vain and our faith in Him in vain.
 
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yeshuaslavejeff

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I disagree. The gospel is for all people, Jew and Gentile alike. Rightly dividing between grace and law is what we must be mindful of. When Jesus spoke to the Jews, He was speaking from law showing how inadequate the law is for salvation.You see, the law was still in effect while Lord Jesus walked and ministered on the Earth. But, when He was crucified, the Law was nailed to the cross with Him,crucified, dead and buried.
It would be best, I think, for everyone, to get a better translation(with correct meaning of God's Word) than indicated here.
 
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yeshuaslavejeff

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