Let's discuss Israel

Southernscotty said:

Deut 14:2 For thou art an holy people unto the LORD thy God, and the LORD hath chosen thee to be a peculiar people unto himself, above all the nations that are upon the earth.

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Two letters to Gentile Christians, assigning them the same description as would be applied to OT Jewish believers.

Philippians 3:3 For we are the circumcision, who worship by the Spirit of God and glory in Christ Jesus and put no confidence in the flesh—

Galatians 6:15-16 For neither circumcision counts for anything, nor uncircumcision, but a new creation. 16 And as for all who walk by this rule, peace and mercy be upon them, and upon the Israel of God.

As others have said, the Church hasn't replaced Israel, the Gentile believers are grafted into Spiritual Israel, obtaining the same favour and blessing from God as Christ earned for all those who believe in Him.

I couldn't vote, as all the vote options were wrong. There should be another option - Christians today, Jew and Gentile, are equal members of the Israel of God. Then I would vote this one.

Southernscotty said:

Deut 14:2 For thou art an holy people unto the LORD thy God, and the LORD hath chosen thee to be a peculiar people unto himself, above all the nations that are upon the earth.

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Southernscotty said:

Ok I would like some opinions on this issue because I am in total and complete disagreement with this "theology"
I haven't spent any time really researching this until today, However a dear friend is stating his belief that Israel has been replaced by the church.
I can not comprehend this thinking as I read my bible and the many scriptures in it pointing to the fact that Israel is indeed the apple of God's eyes and He is the same yesterday, Today and tomorrow.
My bible [KJV Personally] Points to Israel being very special in God's eyes and in fact the Israelites were the ones given the very Oracles of God.

I thought it would be interesting how many here believe this replacement theology .

Perhaps we can see some differing views on this and tell us what scriptures supports your basis?
I have deliberately left out any scripture supporting and/or opposing this view so that you can use them yourself as to why you concur or oppose?

This is my very first poll so hopefully I have done this correctly
Thank You

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Romans 9:6 - writes, “They are not all Israel, which are of Israel”. That is, not all are part of God’s spiritual Israel who are of the literal nation of Israel. Paul continues: “That is, They which are the children of the flesh [physical descendants of Abraham], these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise (spiritual Israel - faith in Christ) are counted for the seed” (Romans 9:8). The children of the flesh are only natural descendants of Abraham, but the children of the promise (Christ) are counted as the true seed. Today, any person—Jew or Gentile—can become part of this spiritual nation of Israel through faith in Jesus Christ.

Romans 9:8

New International Version

In other words, it is not the children by physical descent (Abrahams physical lineage - physical Israel) who are God's children, but it is the children of the promise (faith in Christ) who are regarded as Abraham's offspring.

Galatians 3:29
And if you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham's seed and heirs according to the promise (faith in Christ).

All who are in Christ (by faith) are Israel, according to the promise to Abraham (and are counted as the true seed of Abraham.)

Romans 4:16
Therefore, the promise (Christ through Abrahams seed - lineage) comes by faith (spiritual - faith in Christ), so that it may rest on grace and may be guaranteed to all Abraham's offspring--not only to those who are of the Law (physical Israel), but also to those who are of the faith of Abraham (spiritual - faith in Christ) . He (Christ) is the father of us all.

The true seed is Christ who came through the lineage of Abraham and this true seed (faith in Christ) all who believe in Him (are from His spiritual seed) He (Christ) IS father of us all.

God Bless.

martymonster said:

So, are you saying that you don't believe physical Israel was ever God's people, because physical Israel is just a type of the Church?

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Physical Israel wasn’t Israel for no reason, it was Israel for believing in God.

Southernscotty said:

This is interesting and many need to realize the dispensations that God used as He dealt with differing time periods. Yes we are indeed blessed to be under the grace and are living in the time time Christ has fulfilled all law and prohits
Matt 3:15 And Jesus answering said unto him, Suffer it to be so now: for thus it becometh us to fulfil all righteousness. Then he suffered him.
Before the crucifiction works and ordinances were indeed required as you see with Abraham
James 2:21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar.
So Jesus fulfilled it all by living the law perfectly 33 years He could be our sin atonement and bring us into the grace age as the apostle Paul states in Eph 2:8-9

The jews as well as many other denomination that do not accept "grace by faith" are under the old law and works system, They are trying to earn something and Isiah 64:6 But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away.
We are in the grace covenant now. We are done with works if we accept and confess Christ as our Saviour.
The tribulation will begin again with who? JEWS it is called the time of Jacobs trouble!!

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With the dispensation theology system, there is no room for the Jews who died without salvation. What is their condition?

Southernscotty said:

Oh yes, They are sealed for the the tribulation

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Not sure but your statement does not make sense to me. So all the billions of unbelieving Jews who are dead are automatically sealed? Maybe a comprehensive teaching on being "sealed" will help understand what being sealed means. There is no scriptural mandate to seal a Jew because they are part the nation of Israel. They must have faith in the God of Abraham and now have faith in the finished work of Jesus Christ of Nazareth.
Blessings

Paul described Abraham's circumcision as a seal, or guarantee, that Abraham was reckoned righteous by God ( Rom 4:11 ). By commanding this outward observance of the old covenant, God indicated how human beings could demonstrably consecrate themselves by faith to him. The covenant was bilateral in the sense that it needed to be ratified (i.e., sealed) by each individual. God takes covenant-keeping signs and vows seriously. The seal has no effect unless accompanied by faith. A God-ordained sign entered into by faith makes certain the grace that it signifies ( Rom 4:16 ). "The Lord knows those who are his" and "Everyone who confesses the name of the Lord must turn away from wickedness" ( 2 Tim 2:19 ), the insignia etched into the seal placed on "God's firm foundation, " are at the same time a blessing and a warning. The saints have a seal with God's name protecting them from judgment ( Rev 9:4 ; 14:1). Throughout eternity all of God's people will bear this mark of identification ( Rev 22:4 ).

The Holy Spirit seals those who trust in Christ. The Spirit's presence is God's guarantee that believers are owned by him and secure in him. Since the Holy Spirit's task is to apply Christ's work to God's people, he anoints believers "in Christ" the moment they believe ( 2 Cor 1:21-22 ; Eph 1:13 ). The Father anointed Christ with the Spirit at his baptism, the inauguration of his messianic ministry ( Luke 3:22 ; 4:18 ). Similarly, a believer's baptism marks him or her out as God's. A believer is a secure member of God's family, not because he or she is "holding on, " but because the Spirit is applying the promises about Christ. His sealing merely comprises the initial down payment that anticipates the future, full redemption of God's "marked possession" ( Eph 1:14 ; cf. 2 Cor 5:5 ). In the meantime, Paul commands Christians not to grieve the Holy Spirit in light of the coming day of redemption ( Eph 4:30 ). The Christian is marked as a "new self, " a "re-creation" of God ( Eph 4:24 ), indwelt by the Holy Spirit. His work of sealing believers, therefore, implies a moral responsibility. His name, "Holy" Spirit, is not without significance. His sealing separates the believer from the world and from his or her unholy past. It is incongruous for a sealed believer to ignore God's present sanctifying work through the Spirit resulting in practical godliness ( Eph 4:14-6:9 ).

Bradford A. Mullen

Southernscotty said:

Romans 11:25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in 26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:

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Romans 10:12

For there is no difference between Jew and Greek (gentile): The same Lord is Lord of all, and gives richly to all who call on Him,

Southernscotty said:

Romans 11:25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in 26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:

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People in the OT were saved by their faith in the one to come (Jesus Christ) the promise as promised through Abraham ... all believers in Christ are His Israel.

Southernscotty said:

The Jews can accept Christ just as we can now, By faith if they so choose, However they do not see Christ as the Messiah so 144 thousand will be sealed of the twelve tribes and the original "physical" way of doing things will begin again at that time.
It will be a works system just as before as stated by verses like Matt 24:13
As for now, We are all saved by calling on Jesus as Lord out of our repentant heart.

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Galatians 3:28

New Living Translation
There is no longer Jew or Gentile, slave or free, male and female. For you are all one in Christ Jesus.

God's focus is on the Church since the day of Pentacost.
However , when the Church (Bride) is removed (the Rapture) before the 7 year tribulation God's focus will be on Israel.
During that time , The Second Coming of Christ, and the ushering in of the 1,000 literal reign of Christ, all prophecies regarding Israel will be fulfilled.
The Church and Israel are clearly distinct and separate.
Any Jew can convert to Christianity (accept Christ as Saviour) presently and be part of the Church .
However the Church and Israel should not be used (spoken/taught) as interchangeably.
They are distinct and separate.
God is far from done with the Jews and the nation of Israel.
All of God's promises and prophecies will be fulfilled regarding the Jews and the nation of Israel.
If one cannot comprehend these truths then one will be confused by the end of times events and the order thereof.

Our Lord and Saviour is a God of order and justice.
Full of grace and mercy.
Amen.
⚘

Southernscotty said:

They had to perform works as well friend. They had to make sacrifices once a year. Ours is a one time sacrifice that covers all who accept it.

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Faith and faithing are continual, not a one time sacrifice. And He accepts us, we don't accept Him.

watchman 2 said:

Faith and faithing are continual, not a one time sacrifice. And He accepts us, we don't accept Him.

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Placing faith into the redemptive work of Christ on the cross is a one time thing.
Exercising faith and doing good works is a result of true faith in Christ as a result of salvation not for.
God draws us to Him and shows us the light of His truth, and grace.
He offers Himself to us.
We can accept or we can reject what Jesus Christ did on the cross for us.
Only the shed blood of Jesus Christ on the Cross can make the atonement for our sins.