Early Church Fathers and Reformers Misogynistic Quotes

All4Christ

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So, you believe that you got your soul and/or spirit from your parents? That your biological parents gave you your existence and your substance?

I dont. I believe that we got only bodies from our parents. (Not talking about behaviour influences in childhood, of course)
Being a mother is different than being a creator. Jesus is uncreated, begotten before time began. However, He was born of Mary.

You can’t separate a person into pieces and say that someone is a mother only of a part of the person. Our bodies are not created by our mother, just as our souls are not created by our mother - but our mothers bore our full person. God created and made us all, body and soul. That said, our souls existed and were a part of us prior to birth. We aren’t united with our souls once we are born. Mary gave birth to God Incarnate, who was fully God and fully man. He was still God even when in the womb, as is evident by Mary’s visitation with Elizabeth.

What does the word mother mean to you?
 
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rusmeister

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Myst, your idea loses, if only because nobody talks about human beings that way. We don’t say “And this is the mother of my body”, period. We say, “This is my mother”, not just “mother of a part of me”. The relationship is absolute. You can’t intelligently argue that we talk about mothers in any way that divides humans up into component parts.
You have to admit that God did something you can’t wrap your mind around and pack in a neat little box. God is, by His own will, a Trinity. That’s a mystery. You’re nor expected to truly understand it; no one can.
Then He chose to send His Logos to our planet and take on human nature. That means to accept having a mother, and become what mothers bring forth into the world - a baby. That’s the Gospel, and it’s a Mystery with a capital “M”. You can’t really understand it, you can only accept it.
 
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ArmyMatt

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Soul is immaterial, its origin is not in body. Its given by God. Body is only its temporal "house".

no one ever said it was material, but if it's in the body which is in the womb, the soul is also born in the womb. you can't separate humans like that.
 
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prodromos

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Myst, your idea loses, if only because nobody talks about human beings that way. We don’t say “And this is the mother of my body”, period. We say, “This is my mother”, not just “mother of a part of me”. The relationship is absolute. You can’t intelligently argue that we talk about mothers in any way that divides humans up into component parts.
You have to admit that God did something you can’t wrap your mind around and pack in a neat little box. God is, by His own will, a Trinity. That’s a mystery. You’re nor expected to truly understand it; no one can.
Then He chose to send His Logos to our planet and take on human nature. That means to accept having a mother, and become what mothers bring forth into the world - a baby. That’s the Gospel, and it’s a Mystery with a capital “M”. You can’t really understand it, you can only accept it.
I so much appreciate the way you are able to break things down. My mind acts somewhat like a computer program compiler and simply throws out "syntax errors" or "miss matched parameters" when it encounters stuff that does not compute. I can recognise nonsense when I see it, but can't always readily explain why it is nonsense. I'm glad you are here to explain why it is.
 
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Moses Medina

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Surely when I was protestant still did I not find the term Theotokos offensive. Its simple, let me try to write as when I was Protestant.

Christ is eternal, yes. Christ became man yes. Mary did not create Christ no. She gave birth to Christ yes. Christ born was still both man and God for they can not be seperated.

She bore God. It is not meant to be blasphemous, it is that she bore Christ, God made flesh. She is his mother, thus the God bearer. It was believed this way for over a thousand years and only within the past 500 years has it been controversial. Even the first protestant reformers had no problem with this title.
 
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ToBeLoved

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so where was your soul when your body was in your mother's womb?
The body is the vehicle we each our given here on earth to survive and be human.

However our souls are eternal and only housed in our bodies during our lifetime. Our souls return to God, while our bodies decay and go back to the ground and soil.
 
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Moses Medina

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The body is the vehicle we each our given here on earth to survive and be human.

However our souls are eternal and only housed in our bodies during our lifetime. Our souls return to God, while our bodies decay and go back to the ground and soil.

What of the resurrection?
 
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ToBeLoved

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Myst, your idea loses, if only because nobody talks about human beings that way. We don’t say “And this is the mother of my body”, period. We say, “This is my mother”, not just “mother of a part of me”. The relationship is absolute. You can’t intelligently argue that we talk about mothers in any way that divides humans up into component parts.
You have to admit that God did something you can’t wrap your mind around and pack in a neat little box. God is, by His own will, a Trinity. That’s a mystery. You’re nor expected to truly understand it; no one can.
Then He chose to send His Logos to our planet and take on human nature. That means to accept having a mother, and become what mothers bring forth into the world - a baby. That’s the Gospel, and it’s a Mystery with a capital “M”. You can’t really understand it, you can only accept it.
We can however, when it comes to Jesus Christ.

Even Jesus corrected His mother when He was not able to be found at a young age by his parents and He was later found in the synagogue teaching.

He said woman I am in MY FATHER’s house Going about My Father’s business.
 
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ArmyMatt

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The body is the vehicle we each our given here on earth to survive and be human.

However our souls are eternal and only housed in our bodies during our lifetime. Our souls return to God, while our bodies decay and go back to the ground and soil.

and those bodies return when the Resurrection occurs. our bodies are not simply vehicles for our souls. we are bodies and we are souls because we are human.
 
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All4Christ

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We can however, when it comes to Jesus Christ.

Even Jesus corrected His mother when He was not able to be found at a young age by his parents and He was later found in the synagogue teaching.

He said woman I am in MY FATHER’s house Going about My Father’s business.
Honestly, I don’t see what this passage has to do with this. Jesus was not Joseph’s biological son. It’s not related to Mary bearing / being the mother of Jesus who is fully man and fully God, our Lord who is God Incarnate.
 
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Moses Medina

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The questions are:

Did Mary give birth to Jesus?
Does giving birth = being a mother?
Is Jesus fully man and fully God?

Yes.
Yes.
Yes.
 
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ToBeLoved

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Honestly, I don’t see what this passage has to do with this. Jesus was not Joseph’s biological son. It’s not related to Mary bearing / being the mother of Jesus who is fully man and fully God, our Lord who is God Incarnate.
It is the way Jesus addressed Mary.

The priority was not on Mary and/or Joseph or their family, per se and the affect or that Jesus had been missing or was not able to be found.

When Jesus addresses her as ‘woman’ He was making a distinction between her (being a human being, and none of us think like God, our ways are not His ways) and His Father (in heaven).

Making a clear distinction that He was not here nor had He come to be just another son (human being), but that His priority was clearly the things of God and the will of the Father in what He had been sent to do.

My point is NOT about Joseph at all, but God the Father. Christ being God as well as man.

So relating my point back to the post I replied to is about who and how Jesus Himself saw Mary as His mother.
 
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All4Christ

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It is the way Jesus addressed Mary.

The priority was not on Mary and/or Joseph or their family, per se and the affect or that Jesus had been missing or was not able to be found.

When Jesus addresses her as ‘woman’ He was making a distinction between her (being a human being, and none of us think like God, our ways are not His ways) and His Father (in heaven).

Making a clear distinction that He was not here nor had He come to be just another son (human being), but that His priority was clearly the things of God and the will of the Father in what He had been sent to do.

My point is NOT about Joseph at all, but God the Father. Christ being God as well as man.

So relating my point back to the post I replied to is about who and how Jesus Himself saw Mary as His mother.
Have you considered the way things were worded in that culture and Greek Language? Woman doesn’t have the same connotation that it does today.

Even if he did see her in a way that wasn’t important, it doesn’t change the fact that she is His mother and that she gave birth to Him.

If He didn’t care about her, why would He entrust her to John before the crucifixion?

Also, look at Acts 1:14, John 2:5, John 19:25, Luke 1:31, Luke 2:51, Matthew 2:11 and more. Do you consider Scripture to be inspired?
 
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ToBeLoved

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Have you considered the way things were worded in that culture and Greek Language? Woman doesn’t have the same connotation that it does today.

Even if he did see her in a way that wasn’t important, it doesn’t change the fact that she is His mother and that she gave birth to Him.

If He didn’t care about her, why would He entrust her to John before the crucifixion?

Also, look at Acts 1:14, John 2:5, John 19:25, Luke 1:31, Luke 2:51, Matthew 2:11 and more. Do you consider Scripture to be inspired?
The point is not that she is not his mother, she is clearly His mother in the biological sense.

The point is Jesus priority. Jesus priority at that young age even, was not to please His earthly parents ABOVE the plan of Redemption that He came here to do and bring to all mankind.

Even at 12 yo, Jesus priority was the Father and being in the synagogue teaching.

As Jesus was talking about His Father, note that He did NOT refer to her at that particular moment as mother. He purposely called her woman so not to confuse her being human, with the Father, being diety.

The point being when religion tries to ddiefy Mary. They are going against Jesus Own teaching
 
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All4Christ

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The point is not that she is not his mother, she is clearly His mother in the biological sense.

The point is Jesus priority. Jesus priority at that young age even, was not to please His earthly parents ABOVE the plan of Redemption that He came here to do and bring to all mankind.

Even at 12 yo, Jesus priority was the Father and being in the synagogue teaching.

As Jesus was talking about His Father, note that He did NOT refer to her at that particular moment as mother. He purposely called her woman so not to confuse her being human, with the Father, being diety.

The point being when religion tries to ddiefy Mary. They are going against Jesus Own teaching
No one is trying to deify her. It is a Christological Statement to say that Christ is fully God and fully man.
 
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