The Rule of faith and practice is not scripture "alone"

LoveofTruth · Dec 20, 2018

swordsman1 said:
The vast majority of translations say otherwise....

NASB God is spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth.”
ESV God is spirit, and those who worship him must worship in spirit and truth.”
NIV God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in the Spirit and in truth.”
RSV God is spirit, and those who worship him must worship in spirit and truth.”
etc
etc

They are all wrong.

If we say that God is spirit then all that is spirit is God this opens up the door to the cults and new age talk and pantheistic talk or it could.

But if we say that God is a Spirit in distinction from other spirits this is more sound.

swordsman1 · Dec 20, 2018

LoveofTruth said:
No, you twist scripture here again and avoid the key word here which is “Jesus” Chrust is in you..This was an important distinction and showing that Christ in you, is Jesus Christ in you not the Holy Ghost specifically in this case.

In some sense you seem to be denying that Jesus Christ is in you by this very test. You cannot say Jesus Christ but instead say the Holy Ghost here.
Many times I have tested with this verse others in different cukts such as the Jehovah witnesses when I meet them and help them to come to salvation in Jesus Christ and they fail in this verse often. They do not believe that Jesus Christ is Almighty God so to them how could JESUS Christ be in us only God could do such a thing. They say Christ here and not Jesus as you did.

But we know that Jesus Christ is in us and this is the Spirit of Jesus Christ . Yes we can also say “Christ in us” but this word Christ is connected to Jesus Christ who also cane in the flesh. In this instance Paul uses this test and says Jesus Christ is in you. Similarly how John uses the test and days Jesus Christ cane in the flesh 1 John 4.

Philippians 1 - 19. For I know that this shall turn to my salvation through your prayer, and the supply of the Spirit of Jesus Christ,”

Jesus Christ is distinguished from the Holy Ghost all through scripture though they are both working.

2 Corinthians 13 - 14. The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the communion of the Holy Ghost, be with you all. Amen.

Notice all three here and Jesus Christ is distinguished from the Holy Ghost.

Jesus said in John 15

John 15 - 4. Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me. 5. I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.”

This is before the cross and before the Holy Ghost was given. This is where the mystery of Christ in you is understood. This mystery hath been his from ages and from generations, (Col 1:26,27, and Ephesians 3:9) but it was there in a mysterious way in the secrets of men in the inward part or hidden parts. If Jesus said he is in them and they in him how do we suppose he is in them? By his Spirit of course. He is working in them by the seed sown, the word of God, Christ in them, as scripture shows. All of this is before the Holy Ghost was given.So Jesus is not speaking of the Holy Ghost baptism yet. Even though the Holy Ghost is involved in the work.

So your entire theory is in error as you can see here and God has always been close to every man

Acts 17 - 26. And hath made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth, and hath determined the times before appointed, and the bounds of their habitation; 27. That they should seek the Lord, if haply they might feel after him, and find him, though he be not far from every one of us:”

Where is your proof that "Christ in us" is not the Holy Spirit? Christ is "in" us by the Spirit of Christ (you admit that). Scripture clearly shows us that the Spirit of Christ is the Holy Spirit.

swordsman1 · Dec 20, 2018

LoveofTruth said:
When we read the Holy Spirit in the bible this can be speaking in a general term of God or the Spirit of Christ or the Father .

I think you might be finally getting it!

LoveofTruth · Dec 20, 2018

swordsman1 said:
They still "heard" the God's word preached initially with their ears. That is the plain meaning of the word 'heard', and what the disciples would have understood it to mean in Jesus explanation. Remember they had asked him to explain the plain meaning of the his parable. Jesus was giving them exactly that - the plain easy-to-understanding meaning, not another parable that needs further deciphering. When he says the 'word of God' he means exactly that God's word, which people hear, not Himself. If that which was sown was Himself Jesus would have told the disciples plainly.

Can you show us a single commentator who agrees with your interpretation of the parable of the sower?

His seed in us is his life given to us. We are not God , when we say God dwells in us that dies not mean we are God, and when God speaks his word in us this is of God. The word “seed” is sperma where we get the word sperm it has to do with the living word in us.

1 John 3:9. Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.”

God is called the Word of God.

Also the seed is Christ. As plainly as it is to see to the unbiased reader

“ Galatians 3:16. “And to thy seed, which is Christ.”

This is Christ in us as he was in Abraham also.

They”seed” is the word of God that liveth and is quick , alive

1 Peter 1:23. Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.”

Hebrews 4:12,13 also show the word of God is quick, alive and this is referred to as being in His sight”

When Jesus Christ is in us he speaks his word in us this is Christ speaking in us

2 Corinthians 13:3. 5 “Since ye seek a proof of Christ speaking in me, which to you-ward is not weak, but is mighty in you... 5. Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?”

LoveofTruth · Dec 20, 2018

swordsman1 said:
I think you might be finally getting it!

No, your not sharing the clarity here so nothing to get,

And the expression “Holy Ghost” is distinct (KJV)

LoveofTruth · Dec 20, 2018

swordsman1 said:
Where is your proof that "Christ in us" is not the Holy Spirit? Christ is "in" us by the Spirit of Christ (you admit that). Scripture clearly shows us that the Spirit of Christ is the Holy Spirit.

You just avoided my entire post there and continued to make you statements.

Answer post 198 and the details of it

swordsman1 · Dec 20, 2018

LoveofTruth said:
His seed in us is his life given to us. We are not God , when we say God dwells in us that dies not mean we are God, and when God speaks his word in us this is of God. The word “seed” is sperma where we get the word sperm it has to do with the living word in us.

1 John 3:9. Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.”

God is called the Word of God.

Also the seed is Christ. As plainly as it is to see to the unbiased reader

“ Galatians 3:16. “And to thy seed, which is Christ.”

This is Christ in us as he was in Abraham also.

They”seed” is the word of God that liveth and is quick , alive

1 Peter 1:23. Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.”

Hebrews 4:12,13 also show the word of God is quick, alive and this is referred to as being in His sight”

When Jesus Christ is in us he speaks his word in us this is Christ speaking in us

2 Corinthians 13:3. 5 “Since ye seek a proof of Christ speaking in me, which to you-ward is not weak, but is mighty in you... 5. Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?”

The seed that is in our hearts is God's proclaimed word. The parable of the sower makes that clear. That is also the meaning in 1 John 3:9, 1 Peter 1:23, etc.

The seed in Gal 3:16 is Abraham's seed, his spiritual descendents (ie. the universal Church). Paul calls that seed Christ because we are his body, the Church, and he is the head of the Church (and the majority of commentators agree).

LoveofTruth · Dec 20, 2018

swordsman1 said:
I think you might be finally getting it!

Paul shows that the word “Christ” is connected to the incarnation of Jesus Christ come in the flesh. He says we don’t know him now after the flesh but we still know him and are in Christ (connected to Jesus Christ specifically and not the Holy Ghost here)

and so Paul says this

"16 Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more.
17 Therefore if any man be in Christ,he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new“

LoveofTruth · Dec 20, 2018

swordsman1 said:
The seed that is in our hearts is God's proclaimed word. The parable of the sower makes that clear. That is also the meaning in 1 John 3:9, 1 Peter 1:23, etc.

The seed in Gal 3:16 is Abraham's seed, his spiritual descendents (ie. the universal Church). Paul calls that seed Christ because we are his body, the Church, and he is the head of the Church (and the majority of commentators agree).

Paul says the seed is Christ because it is

Plain and simple no matter how many unspritual men of the past try to avoid this reality in the text and cannot see it.

swordsman1 · Dec 20, 2018

LoveofTruth said:
You just avoided my entire post there and continued to make you statements.

Answer post 198 and the details of it

What I said is the crux of the matter. Scripture shows us that the 'Spirit of Christ" is the Holy Spirit. You need to refute those proofs if you disagree.

LoveofTruth · Dec 20, 2018

swordsman1 said:
What I said is the crux of the matter. Scripture shows us that the 'Spirit of Christ" is the Holy Spirit. You need to refute those proofs if you disagree.

No you are avoiding my post check it again.

and the words

'The Spirit of Jesus Christ", "Jesus Christ is in you", "the Spirit of Christ", "Christ in you", are all referring to the same person, Jesus Christ the Son of God. The key word in all those phrases is "Christ".

"Jesus is the Christ", as scripture says.

and we read,

1 John 2:22
Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son"

We know that Jesus Christ came in the flesh, not the Father or the Holy Ghost.

a curious question what religious man made denomination are you a part of if any? Are you a JW' ? or Mormon? or baptist etc? Just curious. It would answer some of your objections to the truth if I saw where you get your resistance to some clear scriptures.

LoveofTruth · Dec 20, 2018

To all:

God created all things through the Son, the Word of God. This Word of God is the life and light of men. All things are held together by the word of His power. As God created all things through the Son, the Word of God the word of his power also creates us as new creations in him.All things are held or upheld by the word of God. If our very being is held together by the word Of God, then all things all matter all invisible and visible id upheld by the word of his power. That would mean the word of God is in our heart also before any knowledge of anything. We are also a new creation in the word, born again by the word of God. So the word is everywhere and in our hearts and mouths and minds.

"2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds; 3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high:"(Hebrews 1:2,3 KJV)

"3 Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear."

"4 Their line is gone out through all the earth, and their words to the end of the world. In them hath he set a tabernacle for the sun,...
6 His going forth is from the end of the heaven, and his circuit unto the ends of it: and there is nothing hid from the heat thereof."Psalm 19:4,6 KJV)

The word of his power is the word of life the word of God that is the engrafted word that is able to save your souls (James 1). The word is the seed the seed is Christ in you the hope of glory. The worlds being framed by the "word of God" is not here referring to the holy scriptures. Consider this carefully. And all things held together by the "word of His power" is not referring to the holy scriptures here. Consider carefully.

This word of God ( small w) was always in existance.

So when we are created as a new creation the word of God also gives us this new life, born again by the word of God. In Him is life and His word is that seed sown

LoveofTruth · Dec 20, 2018

To all:'

some verses to consider in regards to the mystery

John 1:9
That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world.

Psalm 97:11
"Light is sown for the righteous, and gladness for the upright in heart."

Psalm 36:9
"For with thee is the fountain of life: in thy light shall we see light."

Psalm 4:4
"Stand in awe, and sin not: commune with your own heart upon your bed, and be still. Selah."

Proverbs 13:9,10
"The light of the righteous rejoiceth: but the lamp of the wicked shall be put out. 10 O continue thy lovingkindness unto them that know thee; and thy righteousness to the upright in heart."

John 17:3
"And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent."

Job 29:3
"When his candle shined upon my head, and when by his light I walked through darkness;"

Psalm 27:1
"The Lord is my light and my salvation; whom shall I fear? the Lord is the strength of my life; of whom shall I be afraid?"

Psalm 37:6
"And he shall bring forth thy righteousness as the light, and thy judgment as the noonday."

Psalm 43:3
O send out thy light and thy truth: let them lead me; let them bring me unto thy holy hill, and to thy tabernacles."

Isaiah 2:5
O house of Jacob, come ye, and let us walk in the light of the Lord."

John 8:12
Then spake Jesus again unto them, saying, I am the light of the world: he that followeth me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life."

Luke 17:21
Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.

Psalm 15:2
"He that walketh uprightly, and worketh righteousness, and speaketh the truth in his heart."

1 John 2:29
"If ye know that he is righteous, ye know that every one that doeth righteousness is born of him."

1 John 3:9-12
9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. 10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother. 11 For this is the message that ye heard from the beginning, that we should love one another. 12 Not as Cain, who was of that wicked one, and slew his brother. And wherefore slew he him? Because his own works were evil, and his brother's righteous."

Hebrews 11:33
"Who through faith subdued kingdoms, wrought righteousness, obtained promises, stopped the mouths of lions."

Acts 10:34,35
"34 Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons: 35 But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him."

Hebrews 11:4
"By faith Abel offered unto God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain, by which he obtained witness that he was righteous, God testifying of his gifts: and by it he being dead yet speaketh."

2 Corinthians 11:10
As the truth of Christ is in me"

Ephesians 4:21
If so be that ye have heard him, and have been taught by him, as the truth is in Jesus:"

John 3:21
But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God."

John 8:32,36
And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.... If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed."

Psalm 51:6
"Behold, thou desirest truth in the inward parts: and in the hidden part thou shalt make me to know wisdom."

Romans 1:18
For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them."

Psalm 40:10
"I have not hid thy righteousness within my heart; I have declared thy faithfulness and thy salvation: I have not concealed thy lovingkindness and thy truth from the great congregation."

Romans 2:16
In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel."

Psalm 100:3
Know ye that the Lord he is God: it is he that hath made us, and not we ourselves; we are his people, and the sheep of his pasture."

2 Corinthians 4:7
But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the excellency of the power may be of God, and not of us."

Psalm 119:40
"...quicken me in thy righteousness"

Colossians 1:26, 27
26 Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints.27 To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:"

Ephesians 3:9
"9 And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:"

Isaiah 45:8
"8 Drop down, ye heavens, from above, and let the skies pour down righteousness: let the earth open, and let them bring forth salvation, and let righteousness spring up together; I the Lord have created it.

Isaiah 45:22
Look unto me, and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth: for I am God, and there is none else."

LoveofTruth · Dec 20, 2018

To all:

Isaiah 45:20-25 KJV
"20 Assemble yourselves and come; draw near together, ye that are escaped of the nations: they have no knowledge that set up the wood of their graven image, and pray unto a god that cannot save. 21 Tell ye, and bring them near; yea, let them take counsel together: who hath declared this from ancient time? who hath told it from that time? have not I the Lord? and there is no God else beside me; a just God and a Saviour; there is none beside me. 22 Look unto me, and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth: for I am God, and there is none else.
23 I have sworn by myself, the word is gone out of my mouth in righteousness, and shall not return, That unto me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear. 24 Surely, shall one say, in the Lord have I righteousness and strength: even to him shall men come; and all that are incensed against him shall be ashamed. 25 In the Lord shall all the seed of Israel be justified, and shall glory."

LoveofTruth · Dec 20, 2018

swordsman1 said:
Where is your proof that "Christ in us" is not the Holy Spirit? Christ is "in" us by the Spirit of Christ (you admit that). Scripture clearly shows us that the Spirit of Christ is the Holy Spirit.

The Father, Jesus Christ, the Holy Ghost are all in us, each has a work and they are distinguished in scripture for their specific work

LoveofTruth · Dec 21, 2018

To all:

Another thought

Jesus said ,

John 10:27. My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: 28. And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.”

And we read of men in the OT who were his sheep and so they heard His voice also and had eternal life in them

Psalm 23:1. The LORD is my shepherd; I shall not want. 2. He maketh me to lie down in green pastures: he leadeth me beside the still waters. 3. He restoreth my soul: he leadeth me in the paths of righteousness for his name's sake.”

Ezekiel 34:6,11 “My sheep wandered through all the mountains, and upon every high hill: yea, my flock was scattered upon all the face of the earth, and none did search or seek after them... 11. For thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I, even I, will both search my sheep, and seek them out.”

We can also say that all in faith (Hebrews 11) such as Abraham, Abel, Noah, etc were his sheep as well and they didn’t have scripture yet. And so they heard His voice as well.

Bible Highlighter · Dec 21, 2018

LoveofTruth said:
To all:

Another thought

Jesus said ,

John 10 - 27. My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: 28. And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.”

And we read of men in the OT who were his sheep and so they heard His voice also and had eternal life in them

Psalm 23:1. The LORD is my shepherd; I shall not want. 2. He maketh me to lie down in green pastures: he leadeth me beside the still waters. 3. He restoreth my soul: he leadeth me in the paths of righteousness for his name's sake.”

Ezekiel 34:6,11 “My sheep wandered through all the mountains, and upon every high hill: yea, my flock was scattered upon all the face of the earth, and none did search or seek after them... 11. For thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I, even I, will both search my sheep, and seek them out.”

We can also say that all in faith (Hebrews 11) such as Abraham, Abel, Noah, etc were his sheep as well and they didn’t have scripture yet. And so they heard His voice as well.

Just last night (when I was in bed), I was thinking of singing my own worship songs from the Psalms (with an imaginary orchestra in my head); I was silently singing in my mind (Note: My wife was sleeping so I had to be quiet). So in bed, I had sang my own version of Psalms 23. I used the words "the Lord is my shepherd, I shall not want" as a part of the main chorus of the song.

Anyways, I agree with you that Jesus abides in us as a part of Psalms 23, "Love of Truth." In fact, I love this Psalm. I also find it helpful in quoting this Psalm silently under my breath if the devil tries to tempt me in some way with something carnal or worldly. When I was a kid, I remember (long before I accepted Jesus as my Savior), I remember reading this Psalm for protection from something that scared me at one time (in my grandparent's house; Note: Sometimes I would be awakened by some dark spirit trying to disturb me. Looking back, I believe part of the reason why this took place was because my grandparents had a Masonic book or Bible with Baphomet on the cover in the entry way to the different rooms upstairs.). Anyways, this is a powerful and beautiful verse from the Lord our GOD.

Note: Oh, and I just seen your post this morning, brother.

May the Lord Jesus Christ bless you and protect you today.

friend of · Dec 21, 2018

LoveofTruth said:
If we say that God is spirit then all that is spirit is God this opens up the door to the cults and new age talk and pantheistic talk or it could.

But if we say that God is a Spirit in distinction from other spirits this is more sound.

Well, I think its correct to say "God is Spirit" because God is the underlying essence of all Spirit and spiritual beings. All creation derives its existence from God, the originator Spirit. Gods spirit is in us and is also in the world. Though repressed, God's spirit even resides in those who are evil. God is the animator of all living things, and will only finally remove of his Spirit from the wicked at final judgement.

friend of · Dec 21, 2018

LoveofTruth said:
'The Spirit of Jesus Christ", "Jesus Christ is in you", "the Spirit of Christ", "Christ in you", are all referring to the same person, Jesus Christ the Son of God. The key word in all those phrases is "Christ".

Are you not a trinitarian? Jesus is one with the Holy Spirit. Don't forget that Jesus also said to His disciples that He was going away so that another, the comforter, would come and be with them and lead them into all truth.

LoveofTruth · Dec 21, 2018

friend of said:
Are you not a trinitarian? Jesus is one with the Holy Spirit. Don't forget that Jesus also said to His disciples that He was going away so that another, the comforter, would come and be with them and lead them into all truth.

Yes I am a Trinitarian.

I was speaking of Jesus Christ the Son of God in us

I also speak of the Spirit of the Father in all

and the Holy Ghost in all

John speaks of having BOTH the Father and the Son in us.

The Rule of faith and practice is not scripture "alone"

Christ builds His church from within us

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Christ builds His church from within us

Christ builds His church from within us

Christ builds His church from within us

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Christ builds His church from within us

Christ builds His church from within us

Well-Known Member

Christ builds His church from within us

Christ builds His church from within us

Christ builds His church from within us

Christ builds His church from within us

Christ builds His church from within us

Christ builds His church from within us

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.

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A private in Gods army

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