Why Did D. M. Canright leave the Seventh-Day Adventists?

liberty of conscience · Dec 20, 2018

1stcenturylady said:
So, contextually, you interpret the last "sabbaths" to not be the weekly Sabbath.

No. Interpretation belongs unto God (Genesis 40:8; 2 Peter 1:20). If I interepreted it, that would be "private interpretation". I simply "Amen" what God already said and defined.

The second question is irrelevant.

1stcenturylady · Dec 20, 2018

liberty of conscience said:
No. Interpretation belongs unto God (Genesis 40:8; 2 Peter 1:20). If I interepreted it, that would be "private interpretation". I simply "Amen" what God already said and defined.

The second question is irrelevant.

No? Then you do agree that the last sabbaths is the weekly Sabbath.

LoveGodsWord · Dec 20, 2018

1stcenturylady said:
I just did a word study on the word, "week" and found that in Greek the word for week is sabbath. Like Acts 16:1 when collecting money for the saints, talking about the first of the week, it says one of the sabbaths. That is the same as Matthew 28:1 referring to Sunday as the first day of the week/one of the sabbaths. So it doesn't necessarily mean that that Sunday was called a Sabbath just because it was Feast of Firstfruits. Any Sunday is "one of the sabbaths."

Colossians 2:16 sets out feasts, new moons and sabbaths, which means yearly, monthly, weekly. Some SDA's argue that the last one for Sabbaths refer to high sabbath feasts or other sabbaths such as 7th year rest of land, when it is actually the weekly Sabbath.

Hello 1stcenturylady,

You need to take some help from brother LOC which follows your posts. You ended up coming up with a mistranlations that none of the Greek scholars in most bible translations have come up with.

The GREEK word for used for σάββατον SABBATON has a number of different meaning and applications depending on it context of use in the scripture and chapter context which can have application to the Sabbath (that is, Shabbath), or day of weekly repose from secular avocations (also the observance or institution itself); by extension a se'nnight, that is, the interval between two Sabbaths; likewise the plural in all the above applications: - sabbath (day), week.

In the scriptures you mention the primary words used are first μία mia day of the SABBATON which is what most of the bible parallel translations have translated the GREEK scriptures as FIRST DAY OF THE WEEK. It's meaning here is FIRST day after the Sabbath.

1 CORINTHIANS 16:2 κατα μιαν σαββατων εκαστος υμων παρ εαυτω τιθετω θησαυριζων τι αν ευοδωται ινα μη οταν ελθω τοτε λογιαι γινωνται

PARALLEL TRANSLATIONS

New International Version
On the first day of every week, each one of you should set aside a sum of money in keeping with your income, saving it up, so that when I come no collections will have to be made.

New Living Translation
On the first day of each week, you should each put aside a portion of the money you have earned. Don't wait until I get there and then try to collect it all at once.

English Standard Version
On the first day of every week, each of you is to put something aside and store it up, as he may prosper, so that there will be no collecting when I come.

Berean Study Bible
On the first day of every week, each of you should set aside a portion of his income, saving it up, so that when I come no collections will be needed.

Berean Literal Bible
Every first of the week, let each of you put something aside, treasuring up whatever he may be prospered in, so that when I might come, then there should be no collections.

New American Standard Bible
On the first day of every week each one of you is to put aside and save, as he may prosper, so that no collections be made when I come.

King James Bible
Upon the first day of the week let every one of you lay by him in store, as God hath prospered him, that there be no gatherings when I come.

Christian Standard Bible
On the first day of the week, each of you is to set something aside and save in keeping with how he is prospering, so that no collections will need to be made when I come.

Contemporary English Version
That is, each Sunday each of you must put aside part of what you have earned. If you do this, you won't have to take up a collection when I come.

Good News Translation
Every Sunday each of you must put aside some money, in proportion to what you have earned, and save it up, so that there will be no need to collect money when I come.

Holman Christian Standard Bible
On the first day of the week, each of you is to set something aside and save in keeping with how he prospers, so that no collections will need to be made when I come.

International Standard Version
After the Sabbath ends, each of you should set aside and save something from your surplus in proportion to what you have, so that no collections will have to be made when I arrive.

NET Bible
On the first day of the week, each of you should set aside some income and save it to the extent that God has blessed you, so that a collection will not have to be made when I come.

New Heart English Bible
On the first day of the week, let each one of you save, as he may prosper, that no collections be made when I come.

Aramaic Bible in Plain English
On every Sunday, let each person of you lay aside in his house and keep that which he can, so that when I come there will be no collections.

GOD'S WORD® Translation
Every Sunday each of you should set aside some of your money and save it. Then money won't have to be collected when I come.

New American Standard 1977
On the first day of every week let each one of you put aside and save, as he may prosper, that no collections be made when I come.

King James 2000 Bible
Upon the first day of the week let every one of you lay by him in store, as God has prospered him, that there be no gatherings when I come.

American King James Version
On the first day of the week let every one of you lay by him in store, as God has prospered him, that there be no gatherings when I come.

American Standard Version
Upon the first day of the week let each one of you lay by him in store, as he may prosper, that no collections be made when I come.

Douay-Rheims Bible
On the first day of the week let every one of you put apart with himself, laying up what it shall well please him; that when I come, the collections be not then to be made.

Darby Bible Translation
On [the] first of [the] week let each of you put by at home, laying up [in] whatever [degree] he may have prospered, that there may be no collections when I come.

English Revised Version
Upon the first day of the week let each one of you lay by him in store, as he may prosper, that no collections be made when I come.

Webster's Bible Translation
Upon the first day of the week, let every one of you lay by him in store, as God hath prospered him, that there be no collections when I come.

Weymouth New Testament
On the first day of every week let each of you put on one side and store up at his home whatever gain has been granted to him; so that whenever I come, there may then be no collections going on.

World English Bible
On the first day of the week, let each one of you save, as he may prosper, that no collections be made when I come.

Young's Literal Translation
on every first day of the week, let each one of you lay by him, treasuring up whatever he may have prospered, that when I may come then collections may not be made;

..................

Can you see your error here sister? Seems everyone disagrees with your interpretation of the scriptures here. This is sent only as a help to you in love.

..................

For COLOSSIANS 2 as our brother LOC has already pointed out, you mix up your Shadow laws and ceremonial "SPECIAL sabbaths connected to feast days, from the MOSAIC BOOK of the COVENANT *EXODUS 24:7 with God's eternal law (10 Commandments).

Besides God's 4th Commandment which is the SEVENTH DAY SABBATH written on stone, there were "SPECIAL" annual ceremonial Sabbath connected to the annual Jewish festivals in the OLD COVENANT written in the MOSAIC BOOK OF THE COVENANT.

These ceremonial Sabbath were not God's 4th Commandment of the 10 Commandments but were connected to annual festivals and could fall on ANY DAY of the week depending on the yearly cycle (please read LEVITICUS 23:24-39).

These ceremonial "SPECIAL" Sabbath were connected to..

* Annual festival of The blowing of trumpet (Leviticus 23:24)
* Annual Day of Atonement (Leviticus 23:32)
* Annual Feast of tabernacles (Leviticus 23:39)

These "SPECIAL" Sabbath could fall on any day and were connected directly to these festivals that were prophetic in nature pointing to Jesus and God's plan of Salvation in the NEW COVENANT.

You have your Shadow laws from the MOSAIC BOOK of the COVENANT mixed up with God's ETERNAL LAW that give us a KNOWLEDGE of sin (Romans 3:20).

DETAILED SCRIPTURE SUPPORT COLOSSIANS 2 LINKING THE NEW TESTAMENT TO OLD

Sorry 1stcenturylady, seems God's WORD disagrees with you.

Hope this helps

1stcenturylady · Dec 20, 2018

LoveGodsWord said:
Hello 1stcenturylady,

You need to take some help from brother LOC which follows your posts. You ended up coming up with a mistranlations that none of the Greek scholars in any bible translations have come up with.

The GREEK word for used for σάββατον SABBATON has a number of different meaning and applications depending on it context of use in the scripture and chapter context which can have application to the Sabbath (that is, Shabbath), or day of weekly repose from secular avocations (also the observance or institution itself); by extension a se'nnight, that is, the interval between two Sabbaths; likewise the plural in all the above applications: - sabbath (day), week.

In the scriptures you mention the primary words used are first μία mia day of the SABBATON which is what most of the bible parallel translations have translated the GREEK scriptures as FIRST DAY OF THE WEEK. It's meaning here is FIRST day after the Sabbath.

1 CORINTHIANS 16:2 κατα μιαν σαββατων εκαστος υμων παρ εαυτω τιθετω θησαυριζων τι αν ευοδωται ινα μη οταν ελθω τοτε λογιαι γινωνται

PARALLEL TRANSLATIONS

New International Version
On the first day of every week, each one of you should set aside a sum of money in keeping with your income, saving it up, so that when I come no collections will have to be made.

New Living Translation
On the first day of each week, you should each put aside a portion of the money you have earned. Don't wait until I get there and then try to collect it all at once.

English Standard Version
On the first day of every week, each of you is to put something aside and store it up, as he may prosper, so that there will be no collecting when I come.

Berean Study Bible
On the first day of every week, each of you should set aside a portion of his income, saving it up, so that when I come no collections will be needed.

Berean Literal Bible
Every first of the week, let each of you put something aside, treasuring up whatever he may be prospered in, so that when I might come, then there should be no collections.

New American Standard Bible
On the first day of every week each one of you is to put aside and save, as he may prosper, so that no collections be made when I come.

King James Bible
Upon the first day of the week let every one of you lay by him in store, as God hath prospered him, that there be no gatherings when I come.

Christian Standard Bible
On the first day of the week, each of you is to set something aside and save in keeping with how he is prospering, so that no collections will need to be made when I come.

Contemporary English Version
That is, each Sunday each of you must put aside part of what you have earned. If you do this, you won't have to take up a collection when I come.

Good News Translation
Every Sunday each of you must put aside some money, in proportion to what you have earned, and save it up, so that there will be no need to collect money when I come.

Holman Christian Standard Bible
On the first day of the week, each of you is to set something aside and save in keeping with how he prospers, so that no collections will need to be made when I come.

International Standard Version
After the Sabbath ends, each of you should set aside and save something from your surplus in proportion to what you have, so that no collections will have to be made when I arrive.

NET Bible
On the first day of the week, each of you should set aside some income and save it to the extent that God has blessed you, so that a collection will not have to be made when I come.

New Heart English Bible
On the first day of the week, let each one of you save, as he may prosper, that no collections be made when I come.

Aramaic Bible in Plain English
On every Sunday, let each person of you lay aside in his house and keep that which he can, so that when I come there will be no collections.

GOD'S WORD® Translation
Every Sunday each of you should set aside some of your money and save it. Then money won't have to be collected when I come.

New American Standard 1977
On the first day of every week let each one of you put aside and save, as he may prosper, that no collections be made when I come.

King James 2000 Bible
Upon the first day of the week let every one of you lay by him in store, as God has prospered him, that there be no gatherings when I come.

American King James Version
On the first day of the week let every one of you lay by him in store, as God has prospered him, that there be no gatherings when I come.

American Standard Version
Upon the first day of the week let each one of you lay by him in store, as he may prosper, that no collections be made when I come.

Douay-Rheims Bible
On the first day of the week let every one of you put apart with himself, laying up what it shall well please him; that when I come, the collections be not then to be made.

Darby Bible Translation
On [the] first of [the] week let each of you put by at home, laying up [in] whatever [degree] he may have prospered, that there may be no collections when I come.

English Revised Version
Upon the first day of the week let each one of you lay by him in store, as he may prosper, that no collections be made when I come.

Webster's Bible Translation
Upon the first day of the week, let every one of you lay by him in store, as God hath prospered him, that there be no collections when I come.

Weymouth New Testament
On the first day of every week let each of you put on one side and store up at his home whatever gain has been granted to him; so that whenever I come, there may then be no collections going on.

World English Bible
On the first day of the week, let each one of you save, as he may prosper, that no collections be made when I come.

Young's Literal Translation
on every first day of the week, let each one of you lay by him, treasuring up whatever he may have prospered, that when I may come then collections may not be made;

..................

Can you see your error here sister? Seems everyone disagrees with your interpretation of the scriptures here. This is sent only as a help to you in love.

..................

For COLOSSIANS 2 as our brother LOC has already pointed out, you mix up your Shadow laws and ceremonial "SPECIAL sabbaths connected to feast days, from the MOSAIC BOOK of the COVENANT *EXODUS 24:7 with God's eternal law (10 Commandments).

Besides God's 4th Commandment which is the SEVENTH DAY SABBATH written on stone, there were "SPECIAL" annual ceremonial Sabbath connected to the annual Jewish festivals in the OLD COVENANT written in the MOSAIC BOOK OF THE COVENANT.

These ceremonial Sabbath were not God's 4th Commandment of the 10 Commandments but were connected to annual festivals and could fall on ANY DAY of the week depending on the yearly cycle (please read LEVITICUS 23:24-39).

These ceremonial "SPECIAL" Sabbath were connected to..

* Annual festival of The blowing of trumpet (Leviticus 23:24)
* Annual Day of Atonement (Leviticus 23:32)
* Annual Feast of tabernacles (Leviticus 23:39)

These "SPECIAL" Sabbath could fall on any day and were connected directly to these festivals that were prophetic in nature pointing to Jesus and God's plan of Salvation in the NEW COVENANT.

You have your Shadow laws from the MOSAIC BOOK of the COVENANT mixed up with God's ETERNAL LAW that give us a KNOWLEDGE of sin (Romans 3:20).

DETAILED SCRIPTURE SUPPORT COLOSSIANS 2 LINKING THE NEW TESTAMENT TO OLD

Sorry 1stcenturylady, seems God's WORD disagrees with you.

Hope this helps

What I said is that in the GREEK when we see the English word "week," the Greek is sabbath.

I was using an interlinear Greek-English New Testament which the Greek was used by all of your translations.

BTW, LOC is the last person I would seek for help.

LoveGodsWord · Dec 20, 2018

1stcenturylady said:
What I said is that in the GREEK when we see the English word "week," the Greek is sabbath.

I was using an interlinear Greek-English New Testament which the Greek was used by all of your translations.

Nope you said...

when collecting money for the saints, talking about the first of the week, it says one of the sabbaths. That is the same as Matthew 28:1 referring to Sunday as the first day of the week/one of the sabbaths. So it doesn't necessarily mean that that Sunday was called a Sabbath just because it was Feast of Firstfruits. Any Sunday is "one of the sabbaths."

That is not what the GREEK says or the english translation of it and you have seen that the Parallel bible translations do not interpret the Greek they way you have

1stcenturylady · Dec 20, 2018

LoveGodsWord said:
Nope you said...

That is not what the GREEK says or the english translation of it and you have seen that the Parallel bible translations do not interpret the Greek they way you have

look it up again, and this time read the Greek.

LoveGodsWord · Dec 20, 2018

1stcenturylady said:
look it up again, and this time read the Greek.

Please do not semi quote my post. Read it all in the context of what it is saying. Your interpretation of the scriptures and application of the GREEK word used to first day of the week as the sabbath is in error. The application is to week not Sabbath which is one of the meaning of GREEK word used for sabbath which is SABBATON and has been translated this way in most bibles.

LoveGodsWord · Dec 20, 2018

@EVERYONE ok love you all. Late my time will catch up latter. 99 :wave:

1stcenturylady · Dec 20, 2018

LoveGodsWord said:
Please do not semi quote my post. Read it all in the context of what it is saying. Your interpretation of the scriptures and application of the GREEK word used to first day of the week as the sabbath is in error. The application is to week not Sabbath which is one of the meaning of SABBATON and has been translated this way in most bibles.

You misunderstand. I am not making a case that Sunday is THE Sabbath, so open your mind. (I don't even believe that.) Your "FIRST DAY OF THE WEEK. It's meaning here is FIRST day after the Sabbath." I agree.

I'm saying that the Greek word for week - is "sabbath," with a small "s". And "first" is "one." That means in Greek "one of the sabbaths," is interpreted in English as "first of the week." Seeing as one of my interlinear Bibles translated into English, sabbaths, I did a word study to see how it was used for Sundays that were not also a feast day. You see, Resurrection Sunday was the Feast of Firstfruits making that Sunday a feast in Matthew 28:1 and in my mind could have been the reason for the use of "one of the sabbaths," but found that the Greek uses a generic sabbath to mean any "week," and does not always mean the Saturday, Sabbath, or a high Sabbath.

It is the same usage as in English, "fasting twice a week," is called in Greek, "two times a sabbath." And that doesn't mean twice on Saturday, but could be twice after the Sabbath. It could be Tuesday and Thursday of the same week/sabbath.

However, in Colossians 2:16 it does point to the weekly Sabbath in the pattern of largest to smallest Sabbaths or days of note. Yearly - monthly - WEEKLY, in the phrase "festival or a new moon or sabbaths." Semitic writing styles always used patterns. For instance they would never put, feasts, sabbaths, new moon and mix up the pattern into a jumble.

sabbath/week
week/sabbath

Understand?

LoveGodsWord · Dec 20, 2018

Here let me break it down.

1stcenturylady said:
I'm saying that the Greek word for week - is "sabbath," with a small "s".

NO the GREEK word for week is not sabbath it is SABBATON. This is the same GREEK word used for sabbath depending on the application and scripture context. The GREEK word σάββατον SABBATON has a number of different meaning and applications depending on it context The meaning of sabbaton can mean Sabbath (that is, Shabbath), or day of weekly repose from secular avocations (also the observance or institution itself); by extension a se'nnight, that is, the interval between two Sabbaths; likewise the plural in all the above. The word's applications: is to the sabbath day or the week.

In the scriptures you mention the primary words used are first μία mia day of the SABBATON which is what most of the bible parallel translations have translated the GREEK scriptures as FIRST DAY OF THE WEEK. It's meaning here is FIRST day after the Sabbath.

1 CORINTHIANS 16:2 κατα μιαν σαββατων εκαστος υμων παρ εαυτω τιθετω θησαυριζων τι αν ευοδωται ινα μη οταν ελθω τοτε λογιαι γινωνται

So firstly NO the GREEK word for week is not sabbath it is sabbaton. Sabbath is one of it's meanings as is the interval between two sabbaths, the plural in the above and week depending on it's application and scripture context.

1stcenturylady said:
And "first" is "one." That means in Greek "one of the sabbaths," is interpreted in English as "first of the week."

NO it means first of the sabbaton which is interpretated as first of the week not first of the sabbath.

1stcenturylady said:
You are reading my words with tunnel vision.

NO I am reading your words as you have written them and have been quoting the very words you have been posting.

1stcenturylady said:
You see, Resurrection Sunday was the Feast of Firstfruits making that Sunday a feast in Matthew 28:1 and in my mind could have been the reason for the use of "one of the sabbaths," but found that the Greek uses a generic sabbath to mean any "week," and does not always mean the Saturday, Sabbath, or a high Sabbath. It is the same usage as fasting twice a week, is called two times a sabbath. And that doesn't mean twice on Saturday. It could be Tuesday and Thursday of the same week/sabbath. sabbath/week
week/sabbath Understand?

Emphasis highlight is mine. The SUNDAY resurrection was indeed the feasts of first fruits.

For me I believe that the correct translation for MATTHEW 28:1 should read...

MATTHEW 28:1 And on the eve of the sabbaths, at the dawn, toward the first of the first day of the week (σαββάτων here is Genitive neutral plural <GNP> meaning more than one sabbath or sabbaths plural), came Mary the Magdalene, and the other Mary, to see the sepulchre

This is a correct use of the Greek word sabbatōn; σαββάτων which is used twice in this verse and translates as "Sabbath(s)" meaning is plural more than one. This scripture above is written this way for a number of reasons. Firstly the word sabbatōn; σαββάτων can have two meanings in the Greek depending on the context being use. That is it can represent the day or the intervals from one sabbath to another representing a week.

Of Hebrew origin (shabbath); the Sabbath (i.e. Shabbath), or day of weekly repose from secular avocations (also the observance or institution itself); by extension, a se'nnight, i.e. The interval between two Sabbaths; likewise the plural in all the above applications -- sabbath (day), week. see HEBREW shabbath

Just a point of interest. In this particular week that Jesus died, coincided with the annual Jewish festivals of the Passover, Unleavened Bread, First Fruits, and Feast of Weeks which had their fulfillment in Jesus death and resurrection.

These annual festivals included Holy convocation sabbaths (sabbaton) where no no ordinary work (H4399; מְלָאכָה mᵉlāʾḵâ; employment or business for income) was allowed. In the Greek these Holy convocations or sabbaths also translate as sabbatōn; σαββάτων.

The Passover was one of these festival that could fall on any day of the week. During the time of the death of Jesus in this year the Passover fell on God's 4th commandments weekly Sabbath making this Sabbath a HIGH SABBATH.

JOHN 19:31 [31], The Jews therefore, because it was the preparation, that the bodies should not remain on the cross on the sabbath day, FOR THAT SABBATH WAS A HIGH DAY, sought Pilate that their legs might be broken, and that they might be taken away.

When Jesus died and rested according to the commandment it was called a "High Sabbath Day" because there was a festival sabbath (Passover) on God’s 4th commandment Sabbath. The Jews called a Sabbath a "High Day" when one of the annual festival sabbaths (holy convocations) which could normally fall on any day of the week would fall on the 7th Day weekly Sabbath of God's 4ht commandment (John 19:31) See also Wiki High Sabbaths

In this case the Passover coincided with the weekly Sabbath making two Sabbath(s) in one (plural GNP for MATTHEW 28:1), meaning God's weekly 7th Day Sabbath (sabbaton) and the annual festival sabbath which was also a Holy convocation or sabbaton (sabbath) meaning rest and no secular work was allowed. Hence the first part of Matthew 28:1 In the end of the sabbath(s) as plural (GNP). So in the case of MATTHEW 28:1 we are talking about two sabbaths plural meaning a high Sabbath as shown in JOHN 19:31.

Hope this is helpful.

1stcenturylady · Dec 20, 2018

LoveGodsWord said:
Here let me break it down.

NO the GREEK word for week is not sabbath it is SABBATON. This is the same GREEK word used for sabbath depending on the application and scripture context. The GREEK word σάββατον SABBATON has a number of different meaning and applications depending on it context The meaning of sabbaton can mean Sabbath (that is, Shabbath), or day of weekly repose from secular avocations (also the observance or institution itself); by extension a se'nnight, that is, the interval between two Sabbaths; likewise the plural in all the above. The word's applications: is to the sabbath day or the week.

In the scriptures you mention the primary words used are first μία mia day of the SABBATON which is what most of the bible parallel translations have translated the GREEK scriptures as FIRST DAY OF THE WEEK. It's meaning here is FIRST day after the Sabbath.

1 CORINTHIANS 16:2 κατα μιαν σαββατων εκαστος υμων παρ εαυτω τιθετω θησαυριζων τι αν ευοδωται ινα μη οταν ελθω τοτε λογιαι γινωνται

So firstly NO the GREEK word for week is not sabbath it is sabbaton. Sabbath is one of it's meanings as is the interval between two sabbaths, the plural in the above and week depending on it's application.

NO it means first of the sabbaton which is interpretated as first of the week not first of the sabbath.

NO I am reading your words as you have written them and have been quoting the very words you have been posting.

Emphasis highlight is mine. The SUNDAY resurrection was indeed the feasts of first fruits.

For me I believe that the correct translation for MATTHEW 28:1 should read...

MATTHEW 28:1 And on the eve of the sabbaths, at the dawn, toward the first of the first day of the week (σαββάτων here is Genitive neutral plural <GNP> meaning more than one sabbath or sabbaths plural), came Mary the Magdalene, and the other Mary, to see the sepulchre

This is a correct use of the Greek word sabbatōn; σαββάτων which is used twice in this verse and translates as "Sabbath(s)" meaning is plural more than one. This scripture above is written this way for a number of reasons. Firstly the word sabbatōn; σαββάτων can have two meanings in the Greek depending on the context being use. That is it can represent the day or the intervals from one sabbath to another representing a week.

Of Hebrew origin (shabbath); the Sabbath (i.e. Shabbath), or day of weekly repose from secular avocations (also the observance or institution itself); by extension, a se'nnight, i.e. The interval between two Sabbaths; likewise the plural in all the above applications -- sabbath (day), week. see HEBREW shabbath

Just a point of interest. In this particular week that Jesus died, coincided with the annual Jewish festivals of the Passover, Unleavened Bread, First Fruits, and Feast of Weeks which had their fulfillment in Jesus death and resurrection.

These annual festivals included Holy convocation sabbaths (sabbaton) where no no ordinary work (H4399; מְלָאכָה mᵉlāʾḵâ; employment or business for income) was allowed. In the Greek these Holy convocations or sabbaths also translate as sabbatōn; σαββάτων.

The Passover was one of these festival that could fall on any day of the week. During the time of the death of Jesus in this year the Passover fell on God's 4th commandments weekly Sabbath making this Sabbath a HIGH SABBATH.

JOHN 19:31 [31], The Jews therefore, because it was the preparation, that the bodies should not remain on the cross on the sabbath day, FOR THAT SABBATH WAS A HIGH DAY, sought Pilate that their legs might be broken, and that they might be taken away.

When Jesus died and rested according to the commandment it was called a "High Sabbath Day" because there was a festival sabbath (Passover) on God’s 4th commandment Sabbath. The Jews called a Sabbath a "High Day" when one of the annual festival sabbaths (holy convocations) which could normally fall on any day of the week would fall on the 7th Day weekly Sabbath of God's 4ht commandment (John 19:31) See also Wiki High Sabbaths

In this case the Passover coincided with the weekly Sabbath making two Sabbath(s) in one (plural GNP for MATTHEW 28:1), meaning God's weekly 7th Day Sabbath (sabbaton) and the annual festival sabbath which was also a Holy convocation or sabbaton (sabbath) meaning rest and no secular work was allowed. Hence the first part of Matthew 28:1 In the end of the sabbath(s) as plural (GNP). So in the case of MATTHEW 28:1 we are talking about two sabbaths plural meaning a high Sabbath as shown in JOHN 19:31.

Hope this is helpful.

Fine, sabbaton. Happy? :doh:

Talk about missing the point! I can't believe you want to arrogantly argue when we agree! We agree that the Sabbath, and week are the same word in Greek? They are both sabbaton. I wasn't even talking about that. What I was referring to originally is what words the translators of the interlinear Bibles use. Some use "sabbaths" while others use "weeks," but you can tell by the Greek spelling it is sabbaton, or sabbaths, but the meaning was week, and not the Sabbath. And I wasn't even talking to you, I was discussing the interlinear Bibles with Saint Steven.

What is it you think I'm trying to prove, that you disagree with. Answer that!

#4521 Strong's Concordance, GREEK WORD.
sabbaton: the Sabbath, i.e. the seventh day (of the week)
Original Word: σάββατον, ου, τό
Part of Speech: Noun, Neuter
Transliteration: sabbaton
Short Definition: the Sabbath, a Week
Definition: the Sabbath, a Week.

Dkh587 · Dec 20, 2018

1stcenturylady said:
Show me where the Galatians were Sabbath keepers please.

The burden is on you to prove that they weren’t, not on me to prove that they were.

1stcenturylady · Dec 20, 2018

Dkh587 said:
The burden is on you to prove that they weren’t, not on me to prove that they were.

I copied your response onto paper and was going to research it and get back to you, but haven't yet.

liberty of conscience · Dec 20, 2018

1stcenturylady said:
You misunderstand. I am not making a case that Sunday is THE Sabbath, so open your mind. (I don't even believe that.) Your "FIRST DAY OF THE WEEK. It's meaning here is FIRST day after the Sabbath." I agree.

I'm saying that the Greek word for week - is "sabbath," with a small "s". And "first" is "one." That means in Greek "one of the sabbaths," is interpreted in English as "first of the week." Seeing as one of my interlinear Bibles translated into English, sabbaths, I did a word study to see how it was used for Sundays that were not also a feast day. You see, Resurrection Sunday was the Feast of Firstfruits making that Sunday a feast in Matthew 28:1 and in my mind could have been the reason for the use of "one of the sabbaths," but found that the Greek uses a generic sabbath to mean any "week," and does not always mean the Saturday, Sabbath, or a high Sabbath.

It is the same usage as in English, "fasting twice a week," is called in Greek, "two times a sabbath." And that doesn't mean twice on Saturday, but could be twice after the Sabbath. It could be Tuesday and Thursday of the same week/sabbath.

That is all well and good.

1stcenturylady said:
Y

However, in Colossians 2:16 it does point to the weekly Sabbath in the pattern of largest to smallest Sabbaths or days of note. Yearly - monthly - WEEKLY, in the phrase "festival or a new moon or sabbaths." Semitic writing styles always used patterns. For instance they would never put, feasts, sabbaths, new moon and mix up the pattern into a jumble.

sabbath/week
week/sabbath

Understand?

This on the otherhand, is misrepresentation of the text:

Col 2:16 Let no man therefore judge you in [1] meat, or in drink, or [2] in respect of an holyday, or [3] of the new moon, or [4] of the sabbath days:

[1] in meat or in drink (offerings) which are done "daily"
[2] holy day (feastal day, in their "seasons" (Leviticus 23:4)
[3] new moon (monthly)
[4] sabbath days (plural, yearly/of years)

This is the very order (daily, seasonly, monthly, yearly/of years) that Paul is citing from in Ezekiel 45:17 (which is taken from Numbers 28-29, and many other places). The entire context of Ezekiel 45 is the "ordinances" of the sanctruary, the shadows.

The seventh-day the sabbath of the Lord is never listed last in such a listing. Always the yearly/of years is listed last. It is never a shadow or carnal, but is Light, and Spiritual. It is never based in seasons (spring/fall) or months, or years, but always is the 7th day of the 7 day week.

It is given in the basic order through all of scripture, and I already provided you with those references.

https://www.christianforums.com/threads/why-did-d-m-canright-leave-the-seventh-day-adventists.8085247/page-16#post-73493660

Numbers 28 & 29; 1 Chronicles 23:31; 2 Chronicles 2:4, 8:13, 31:3; Nehemiah 10:33; Isaiah 1:13-14; Ezekiel 45:17, 46:1-11; Hosea 2:11, and see also Galatians 4:10; Colossians 2:16

You give a reverse order, and also leave off the first item, the "daily" (meat and drink offerings).

As stated Colossians 2 is written in parallel language to Ephesians 2 and Hebrews 9-10. This was demontrated by the very words themselves.

1stcenturylady · Dec 20, 2018

liberty of conscience said:
That is all well and good.

This on the otherhand, is misrepresentation of the text:

Col 2:16 Let no man therefore judge you in [1] meat, or in drink, or [2] in respect of an holyday, or [3] of the new moon, or [4] of the sabbath days:

[1] in meat or in drink (offerings) which are done "daily"
[2] holy day (feastal day, in their "seasons" (Leviticus 23:4)
[3] new moon (monthly)
[4] sabbath days (plural, yearly/of years)

This is the very order (daily, seasonly, monthly, yearly/of years) that Paul is citing from in Ezekiel 45:17 (which is taken from Numbers 28-29, and many other places). The entire context of Ezekiel 45 is the "ordinances" of the sanctruary, the shadows.

The seventh-day the sabbath of the Lord is never listed last in such a listing. Always the yearly/of years is listed last. It is never a shadow or carnal, but is Light, and Spiritual.

It is given in the basic order through all of scripture, and I already provided you with those references.

https://www.christianforums.com/threads/why-did-d-m-canright-leave-the-seventh-day-adventists.8085247/page-16#post-73493660

Numbers 28 & 29; 1 Chronicles 23:31; 2 Chronicles 2:4, 8:13, 31:3; Nehemiah 10:33; Isaiah 1:13-14; Ezekiel 45:17, 46:1-11; Hosea 2:11, and see also Galatians 4:10; Colossians 2:16

You give a reverse order, and also leave of the "daily" (meat and drink offerings).

As stated Colossians 2 is written in parallel langauge to Ephesians 2 and Hebrews 9-10. This was demontrated by the very words themselves.

As I said, I'll study it later, or not.

But I will tell you this much. The handwriting of ordinances that were against us is called the ministry of death. It is not just ceremonial laws as you believe, but the whole LAW, which would include those handwritten on stone. Jesus provided a better way of fulfilling the righteous requirements of the law, and that is His Spirit indwelling us. By walking in the Spirit we are no longer under the law. The Spirit leads us into all righteousness, against which there is no law.

LoveGodsWord · Dec 21, 2018

1stcenturylady said:
The handwriting of ordinances that were against us is called the ministry of death. It is not just ceremonial laws as you believe, but the whole LAW, which would include those handwritten on stone. Jesus provided a better way of fulfilling the righteous requirements of the law, and that is His Spirit indwelling us. By walking in the Spirit we are no longer under the law. The Spirit leads us into all righteousness, against which there is no law.

Nope your mixing up your shadow laws again from the Mosaic book of the Covenant EXODUS 24:7 with God's eternal law (10 commandments) that give us the KNOWLEDGE of GOOD and EVIL; SIN AND RIGHTEOUSNESS *ROMANS 3:20; ROMANS 7:7; 1 JOHN 3:4; PSALMS 119:172. Let's look at the scriptures and see why...

COL 2:14 SCRIPTURE SUBJECT MATTER AND CONTENT.

14, Blotting out the HANDWRITING of ORDINANCES that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;

GREEK WORD MEANINGS AND WORD USE

14, “BLOTTING OUT” < G1813 ἐξαλείφωexaleipho (ex-a-lei'-fō) v. means to rub out, i.e. obliterate, erase>the “HANDWRITING” < G5498 χειρόγραφονcheirographon (chei-ro'-gra-fon) n. means something hand-written (“chirograph”), a manuscript specially, a legal document > of “ORDINANCES” < G1378 δόγμαdogma (d̮og'-ma) n. means; ORDINANCE; CIVIL, CEREMONIAL or ECCLESIASTICAL laws>that was against us, WHICH WERE AGAINST , and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;

The GREEK WORD meanings here in this scripture show that it follows the same CONTEXT of v11-13 in relation to the CEREMONIAL ORDINANCES found in the MOSAIC BOOK of the COVENANT *EXODUS 24:7.

V14 Blotting out or erasing the legal MANUSCRIPT or document of ORDINANCES referred to here are those of the CEREMONIAL ORDINANCES from the MOSAIC BOOK of the COVENANT.
The GREEK word for ORDIANACE is DOGMA meaning THE CIVIL, CEREMONIAL and ECCLESIASTICAL ORDINANCES once again only found in the MOSAIC BOOK of the Covenant

This scripture cannot be referring to the abolishing of the 10 commandments of God’s LAW as God’s 10 Commandments are not ORDINANCES and they are not written in a MANUSCRIPT they are written on two tables of stone (Exodus 31:18). Also the chapter CONTEXT is in reference to the CEREMONIAL ORDINANCES of CIRCUMCISION once again from the MOSAIC BOOK of the OLD COVENANT. These were all SHADOWS ALONG WITH THE ORDINANCES OF v17 pointing to Christ and the plan of SALVATION.

ORDINANCES that were against us is referring to the also referring to the PENALTY of SIN (breaking God’s Commandments and the ORDINANCES of curses written once again in the MOSAIC BOOK of the Covenant.

DEUTERONOMY 31:26 [26] Take this Book of the Law, and put it in the side of the ark of the covenant of the LORD your God, that it may be there FOR A WITNESS AGAINST THEE.

DEUTERONOMY 30:19-20 [19] For GOD has said, I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, BLESSINGS AND CURSES: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live: [20] That thou mayest love the Lord thy God, and that thou mayest OBEY his voice, and that thou mayest cleave unto him: for he is thy life, and the length of thy days: that thou mayest dwell in the land which the LORD swore unto thy fathers, to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob, to give them.

(See the list of ORDINACES for curses of breaking Gods’ Law in DEUTERONOMY 28:15-68)

CONCLUSION; COL 2:14 is talking about the CEREMONIAL ORDINANCES written in the MOSIAC BOOK of the Covenant which are SHADOW laws pointing to Jesus and God’s plan of SALVATION. This is supported also by the within CHAPTER CONTEXT and SUBJECT matter of v16 which are all CEREMONIAL ORDINANCES written in the MOCAIC BOOK of the COVENANT and not referring to ABOLISHING God’s 10 Commandments.

WHAT ARE THE ORDINANCES?

HEBREWS 9:1-12 [1] Then verily THE FIRST COVENANT HAD ALSO ORDINANCES of divine service, and a worldly sanctuary. [9] Which was a figure for the time then present, in which were offered both gifts and sacrifices, that could not make him that did the service perfect, as pertaining to the conscience;[10] WHICH STOOD ONLY IN MEATS AND DRINKS, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed on them until the time of reformation.[12] NEITHER BY THE BLOOD OF GOATS AND CALVES, BUT BY HIS OWN BLOOD he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.

old covenant...blood of goats.....The meat and drink offerings

HEBREWS 10:4-9 [4] FOR IT IS NOT POSSIBLE THAT THE BLOOD OF BULLS AND OF GOATS SHOULD TAKE AWAY SINS.[5] Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me:[6] In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin thou hast had no pleasure.[7] Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God.[8] Above when he said, sacrifice and offering and burnt offerings and offering for sin thou wouldest not, neither hadst pleasure therein; which are offered by the law;[9] Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. HE TAKETH AWAY THE FIRST, THAT HE MAY ESTABLISH THE SECOND.

EPHESIANS 2:15 [15] HAVING ABOLISHED in his flesh the enmity, even the LAW OF COMMANDMENTS CONTAINED IN ORDINANCES; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;[16] And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:

HEBREWS 13:9-12 [9] Be not carried about with divers and strange doctrines. For it is a good thing that the heart be ESTABLISHED WITH GRACE; NOT WITH MEATS, which have not profited them that have been occupied therein. [10] We have an altar, whereof they have no right to eat which serve the tabernacle. [11] For THE BODIES OF THOSE BEASTS, WHOSE BLOOD is brought into the sanctuary by the high priest for sin, are burned without the camp. [12] WHEREFORE JESUS ALSO, THAT HE MIGHT SANCTIFY THE PEOPLE WITH HIS OWN BLOOD, suffered without the gate.

The first covenant had ORDINANCES which stood ONLY in meat and drink offerings which were a figure. A shadow

EZEKIEL 46:14 [14] And thou shalt prepare a meat offering for it every morning, the sixth part of an ephah, and the third part of an hin of oil, to temper with the fine flour; a MEAT OFFERING continually by a perpetual ORDINANCE unto the LORD.

HEBREWS 10:1-4 [1] For THE LAW HAVING A SHADOW of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with THOSE SACRIFICES WHICH THEY OFFERED YEAR BY YEAR continually make the comers thereunto perfect.[2] For then would they not have ceased to be offered? because that the worshippers once purged should have had no more conscience of sins. [3] But in those sacrifices there is a remembrance again made of sins every year.[4] For IT IS NOT POSSIBLE THAT THE BLOOD OF BULLS AND OF GOATS SHOULD TAKE AWAY SINS.

Hebrews 10 says it all. The shadow of the law was the offerings (the meat and drink offerings).

NUMBERS 19:2 [2] This is the ORDINANCE OF THE LAW which the Lord hath commanded, saying, Speak unto the children of Israel, that they bring thee a red heifer without spot, wherein is no blemish, and upon which never came yoke:

NOTE: these SHADOW laws in ORDINANCES pointed to JESUS...

JOHN 6 [55] For my flesh is MEAT indeed, and my blood is DRINK indeed.

NUMBERS 18:8-10 [8] And the LORD spake unto Aaron, Behold, I also have given thee the charge of mine heave offerings of all the hallowed things of the children of Israel; unto thee have I given them by reason of the anointing, and to thy sons, BY AN ORDINANCE for ever.[9] This shall be thine of the most holy things, reserved from the fire: EVERY OBLATION of theirs, EVERY MEAT OFFERING of theirs, and EVERY SIN OFFERING of theirs, and every trespass offering of theirs, which they shall render unto me, shall be most holy for thee and for thy sons.The new covenant is all about the blood of Christ. Not changing the law....but fulfilling the law

ZECHARIAH 9:9-11 [9] Rejoice greatly, O daughter of Zion; shout, O daughter of Jerusalem: behold, THY KING COMETH UNTO THEE: HE IS JUST, AND HAVING SALVATION; lowly, and riding upon an ass, and upon a colt the foal of an ass.[10] And I will cut off the chariot from Ephraim, and the horse from Jerusalem, and the battle bow shall be cut off: and he shall speak peace unto the heathen: and his dominion shall be from sea even to sea, and from river even to the ends of the earth.[11] As for thee also, BY THE BLOOD OF THY COVENANT I have sent forth thy prisoners out of the pit wherein is no waterVerse 9 definitely prophecies of the coming Jesus. Verse 11, Jesus is called the blood of thy covenant

HEBREWS 12 [23] To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,[24] And to Jesus THE MEDIATOR OF THE NEW COVENANT, AND TO THE BLOOD of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.

New covenant...blood

LUKE 22:19-20 [19] And he took bread, and gave thanks, and brake it, and gave unto them, saying, This is my body which is given for you: this do in remembrance of me. [20] Likewise also the cup after supper, saying, THIS CUP IS THE NEW TESTAMENT IN MY BLOOD, which is shed for you.

Jesus did not come to change or destroy the law. The sabbath is still to be kept. He came to fulfil what was written of Him in the books of the law and to END the Mosaic law for remission of SIN and the penalty of SIN in those who BELIEVE.

NO MORE ORDINANCES WRITTEN IN THE BOOK of the OLD COVENANT EXODUS 24:7 Ceremonial/Levitical/Sacrificial laws and animal sacrifices. Colossians 2:14 has nothing to do with God's 10 commandments except we no longer need to do animal sacrifices for sin

MORE SCRIPTURE CLICK ME?

CONCLUSION: COL 2:16 is not talking about God's 10 Commandments or the 4th Commandment it is talking about CEREMONIAL ORDINACES written in the MOSAIC BOOK of the Covenant for remission of SIN and annual festivals and HOLY DAYS and special SABBATHS of LEV 23 that pointed to Jesus and GOd's plan of salvation.

SIN is the transgression or breakin gof God's Commandments (Romans 7:7; James 2:8-12; 1 John 3:4) Those who CONTINUE in UNREPENTANT SIN will NOT enter into the KINGDOM of HEAVEN.

Can you see your error here sister? Only sent in LOVE as a help.

May God help you as you seek him through his Word.

1stcenturylady · Dec 21, 2018

@LoveGodsWord, @liberty of conscience, @BobRyan

You can stay under the law if you want to, but I choose being born again of the Spirit.

All you wrote I already learned when I was a youth in SDA schools from elementary to college, and it is good to know the background of what God expects. But it wasn't until I left, that I finally learned there is more! Much more! There is what actually happens when we repent and are BORN AGAIN OF THE SPIRIT. With all you've written and cut and pasted time and time again, there is not one mention of the Holy Spirit. I know why. Growing up, I was expected to keep the law just through knowledge of the law, but in my own strength. Oh, yes, there is much more than just knowledge! Here is what you don't grasp.

Jesus didn't just take away the "punishment" for our sins, He took away the ability to sin.

Romans 6:1-11 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound? 2 Certainly not! How shall we who died to sin live any longer in it? 3 Or do you not know that as many of us as were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into His death? 4 Therefore we were buried with Him through baptism into death, that just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

5 For if we have been united together in the likeness of His death, certainly we also shall be in the likeness of His resurrection, 6 knowing this, that our old man was crucified with Him, that the body of sin might be done away with, that we should no longer be slaves of sin. 7 For he who has died has been freed from sin. 8 Now if we died with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with Him, 9 knowing that Christ, having been raised from the dead, dies no more. Death no longer has dominion over Him. 10 For the death that He died, He died to sin once for all; but the life that He lives, He lives to God. 11 Likewise you also, reckon yourselves to be dead indeed to sin, but alive to God in Christ Jesus our Lord.

How? By placing His Spirit inside us.

Romans 8:1-9
There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit. 2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death. (The Ten Commandments: we know this because this law is the context - Romans 7:7 “You shall not covet.”) 3 For what the law could not do in that it was weak through the flesh, God did by sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, on account of sin: He condemned SIN in the flesh, 4 that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. 5 For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit. 6 For to be carnally minded is death, but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. 7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can be. 8 So then, those who are in the flesh cannot please God. (they are not born of the Spirit)

9 But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His.

This is not just some imputation of His righteousness, like some invisibility cloak; no, He cleanses us from ALL UNRIGHTEOUSNESS, and no longer calls us sinners, but sons!

John 8:34-36
34 Jesus answered them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, whoever commits sin is a slave of sin. 35 And a slave does not abide in the house forever, but a son abides forever. 36 Therefore if the Son makes you free, you shall be free indeed.

1 John 1:9 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

Acts 2:38
Then Peter said to them, “Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

1 John 1:7
7 But if we walk in the light as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanses us from all sin.

1 John 3:4-9).
4 Whoever commits sin also commits lawlessness, and sin is lawlessness. 5 And you know that He was manifested to TAKE AWAY OUR SINS, and in Him there is no sin. 6 Whoever abides in Him does not sin. Whoever sins has neither seen Him nor known Him.

7 Little children, let no one deceive you. He who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous. 8 He who sins is of the devil, for the devil has sinned from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that He might destroy the works of the devil. 9 Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God.

All we need to do now is trust in Jesus, walk in His Spirit, and follow His commandments to LOVE.

1 John 3:23
And this is His commandment: that we should believe on the name of His Son Jesus Christ and love one another, as He gave us commandment.

We are not as our forefathers who were given the law to guard them UNTIL Jesus came to take away our sin. It was sin that made us NEED the law. Jesus took away our SIN. The law could no longer "show us our sin," because in the Spirit, there isn't any sin for the law to shine light on! Christ took away our sin, and in Him there is no sin.

Galatians 3:
19 What purpose then does the law serve? It was added because of transgressions, till the Seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was appointed through angels by the hand of a mediator. 20 Now a mediator does not mediate for one only, but God is one.

21 Is the law then against the promises of God? Certainly not! For if there had been a law given which could have given life, truly righteousness would have been by the law. 22 But the Scripture has confined all under sin, that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe. 23 But before faith came, we were kept under guard by the law, kept for the faith which would afterward be revealed. 24 Therefore the law was our tutor to bring us to Christ, that we might be justified by faith. 25 But after faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor.

This is not just the Mosaic law Paul is talking about like you teach? It is the whole Old Covenant, which includes the covenant of the Ten Commandments (Exodus 34:28) Ordinances are laws, commands and commandments. Not just circumcision, though it was a law.

2 Corinthians 3:
4 And we have such trust through Christ toward God. 5 Not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think of anything as being from ourselves, but our sufficiency is from God, 6 who also made us sufficient as ministers of the new covenant, not of the letter (the Ten Commandments) but of the Spirit; for the letter kills (ministry of death), but the Spirit gives life.

7 But if the ministry of death, written and engraved on stones (the Ten Commandments), was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not look steadily at the face of Moses because of the glory of his countenance, which glory was passing away, 8 how will the ministry of the Spirit not be more glorious? 9 For if the ministry of condemnation had glory, the ministry of righteousness exceeds much more in glory. 10 For even what was made glorious had no glory in this respect, because of the glory that excels. 11 For if what is passing away was glorious, what remains is much more glorious.

12 Therefore, since we have such hope, we use great boldness of speech— 13 unlike Moses, who put a veil over his face so that the children of Israel could not look steadily at the end of what was passing away. 14 But their minds were blinded. For until this day the same veil remains unlifted in the reading of the Old Testament, because the veil is taken away in Christ. 15 But even to this day, when Moses is read, a veil lies on their heart. 16 Nevertheless when one turns to the Lord, the veil is taken away. 17 Now the Lord is the Spirit; and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty. 18 But we all, with unveiled face, beholding as in a mirror the glory of the Lord, are being transformed into the same image from glory to glory, just as by the Spirit of the Lord.

Colossians 2:
13 And you, being dead in your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He has made alive together with Him, having forgiven you all trespasses, 14 having wiped out the handwriting of requirements that was against us, which was contrary to us. And He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross. 15 Having disarmed principalities and powers, He made a public spectacle of them, triumphing over them in it.

16 So let no one judge you in food or in drink, or regarding a festival or a new moon or sabbaths, 17 which are a shadow of things to come, but the substance is of Christ.

Matthew 11:28
Come to Me, all you who labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.

Galatians 4:21-31
21 Tell me, you who desire to be under the law, do you not hear the law? 22 For it is written that Abraham had two sons: the one by a bondwoman, the other by a freewoman. 23 But he who was of the bondwoman was born according to the flesh, and he of the freewoman through promise, 24 which things are symbolic. For these are the two covenants: the one from Mount Sinai (The Ten Commandments Exodus 34:28) which gives birth to bondage, which is Hagar— 25 for this Hagar is Mount Sinai in Arabia, and corresponds to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children— 26 but the Jerusalem above is free, which is the mother of us all. 27 For it is written:

“Rejoice, O barren,
You who do not bear!
Break forth and shout,
You who are not in labor!
For the desolate has many more children
Than she who has a husband.”

28 Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are children of promise. 29 But, as he who was born according to the flesh then persecuted him who was born according to the Spirit, even so it is now. 30 Nevertheless what does the Scripture say? “Cast out the bondwoman and her son, for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman.” 31 So then, brethren, we are not children of the bondwoman but of the free.

Galatians 5:16-18; 22-25
16 I say then: Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh. 17 For the flesh lusts against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; and these are contrary to one another, so that you do not do the things that you wish. 18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law.

22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness, self-control. Against such there is no law. 24 And those who are Christ’s have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires. 25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.

This is the MUCH MORE I never learned in school!!!

LoveGodsWord · Dec 21, 2018

1stcenturylady said:
@LoveGodsWord, @liberty of conscience, @BobRyan

You can stay under the law if you want to, but I choose being born again of the Spirit.

All you wrote I already learned when I was a youth in SDA schools from elementary to college, and it is good to know the background of what God expects. But it wasn't until I left, that I finally learned there is more! Much more! There is what actually happens when we repent and are BORN AGAIN OF THE SPIRIT. With all you've written and cut and pasted time and time again, there is not one mention of the Holy Spirit. I know why. Growing up, I was expected to keep the law just through knowledge of the law, but in my own strength. Oh, yes, there is much more than just knowledge! Here is what you don't grasp.

Jesus didn't just take away the "punishment" for our sins, He took away the ability to sin.

Romans 6:1-11 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound? 2 Certainly not! How shall we who died to sin live any longer in it? 3 Or do you not know that as many of us as were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into His death? 4 Therefore we were buried with Him through baptism into death, that just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

5 For if we have been united together in the likeness of His death, certainly we also shall be in the likeness of His resurrection, 6 knowing this, that our old man was crucified with Him, that the body of sin might be done away with, that we should no longer be slaves of sin. 7 For he who has died has been freed from sin. 8 Now if we died with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with Him, 9 knowing that Christ, having been raised from the dead, dies no more. Death no longer has dominion over Him. 10 For the death that He died, He died to sin once for all; but the life that He lives, He lives to God. 11 Likewise you also, reckon yourselves to be dead indeed to sin, but alive to God in Christ Jesus our Lord.

How? By placing His Spirit inside us.

Romans 8:1-9
There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit. 2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death. (The Ten Commandments: we know this because this law is the context - Romans 7:7 “You shall not covet.”) 3 For what the law could not do in that it was weak through the flesh, God did by sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, on account of sin: He condemned SIN in the flesh, 4 that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. 5 For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit. 6 For to be carnally minded is death, but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. 7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can be. 8 So then, those who are in the flesh cannot please God. (they are not born of the Spirit)

9 But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His.

This is not just some imputation of His righteousness, like some invisibility cloak; no, He cleanses us from ALL UNRIGHTEOUSNESS, and no longer calls us sinners, but sons!

John 8:34-36
34 Jesus answered them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, whoever commits sin is a slave of sin. 35 And a slave does not abide in the house forever, but a son abides forever. 36 Therefore if the Son makes you free, you shall be free indeed.

1 John 1:9 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

Acts 2:38
Then Peter said to them, “Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

1 John 1:7
7 But if we walk in the light as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanses us from all sin.

1 John 3:4-9).
4 Whoever commits sin also commits lawlessness, and sin is lawlessness. 5 And you know that He was manifested to TAKE AWAY OUR SINS, and in Him there is no sin. 6 Whoever abides in Him does not sin. Whoever sins has neither seen Him nor known Him.

7 Little children, let no one deceive you. He who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous. 8 He who sins is of the devil, for the devil has sinned from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that He might destroy the works of the devil. 9 Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God.

All we need to do now is trust in Jesus, walk in His Spirit, and follow His commandments to LOVE.

1 John 3:23
And this is His commandment: that we should believe on the name of His Son Jesus Christ and love one another, as He gave us commandment.

We are not as our forefathers who were given the law to guard them UNTIL Jesus came to take away our sin. It was sin that made us NEED the law. Jesus took away our SIN. The law could no longer "show us our sin," because in the Spirit, there isn't any sin for the law to shine light on! Christ took away our sin, and in Him there is no sin.

Galatians 3:
19 What purpose then does the law serve? It was added because of transgressions, till the Seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was appointed through angels by the hand of a mediator. 20 Now a mediator does not mediate for one only, but God is one.

21 Is the law then against the promises of God? Certainly not! For if there had been a law given which could have given life, truly righteousness would have been by the law. 22 But the Scripture has confined all under sin, that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe. 23 But before faith came, we were kept under guard by the law, kept for the faith which would afterward be revealed. 24 Therefore the law was our tutor to bring us to Christ, that we might be justified by faith. 25 But after faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor.

This is not just the Mosaic law Paul is talking about like you teach? It is the whole Old Covenant, which includes the covenant of the Ten Commandments (Exodus 34:28) Ordinances are laws, commands and commandments. Not just circumcision, though it was a law.

2 Corinthians 3:
4 And we have such trust through Christ toward God. 5 Not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think of anything as being from ourselves, but our sufficiency is from God, 6 who also made us sufficient as ministers of the new covenant, not of the letter (the Ten Commandments) but of the Spirit; for the letter kills (ministry of death), but the Spirit gives life.

7 But if the ministry of death, written and engraved on stones (the Ten Commandments), was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not look steadily at the face of Moses because of the glory of his countenance, which glory was passing away, 8 how will the ministry of the Spirit not be more glorious? 9 For if the ministry of condemnation had glory, the ministry of righteousness exceeds much more in glory. 10 For even what was made glorious had no glory in this respect, because of the glory that excels. 11 For if what is passing away was glorious, what remains is much more glorious.

12 Therefore, since we have such hope, we use great boldness of speech— 13 unlike Moses, who put a veil over his face so that the children of Israel could not look steadily at the end of what was passing away. 14 But their minds were blinded. For until this day the same veil remains unlifted in the reading of the Old Testament, because the veil is taken away in Christ. 15 But even to this day, when Moses is read, a veil lies on their heart. 16 Nevertheless when one turns to the Lord, the veil is taken away. 17 Now the Lord is the Spirit; and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty. 18 But we all, with unveiled face, beholding as in a mirror the glory of the Lord, are being transformed into the same image from glory to glory, just as by the Spirit of the Lord.

Colossians 2:
13 And you, being dead in your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He has made alive together with Him, having forgiven you all trespasses, 14 having wiped out the handwriting of requirements that was against us, which was contrary to us. And He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross. 15 Having disarmed principalities and powers, He made a public spectacle of them, triumphing over them in it.

16 So let no one judge you in food or in drink, or regarding a festival or a new moon or sabbaths, 17 which are a shadow of things to come, but the substance is of Christ.

Matthew 11:28
Come to Me, all you who labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.

Galatians 4:21-31
21 Tell me, you who desire to be under the law, do you not hear the law? 22 For it is written that Abraham had two sons: the one by a bondwoman, the other by a freewoman. 23 But he who was of the bondwoman was born according to the flesh, and he of the freewoman through promise, 24 which things are symbolic. For these are the two covenants: the one from Mount Sinai (The Ten Commandments Exodus 34:28) which gives birth to bondage, which is Hagar— 25 for this Hagar is Mount Sinai in Arabia, and corresponds to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children— 26 but the Jerusalem above is free, which is the mother of us all. 27 For it is written:

“Rejoice, O barren,
You who do not bear!
Break forth and shout,
You who are not in labor!
For the desolate has many more children
Than she who has a husband.”

28 Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are children of promise. 29 But, as he who was born according to the flesh then persecuted him who was born according to the Spirit, even so it is now. 30 Nevertheless what does the Scripture say? “Cast out the bondwoman and her son, for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman.” 31 So then, brethren, we are not children of the bondwoman but of the free.

Galatians 5:16-18; 22-25
16 I say then: Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh. 17 For the flesh lusts against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; and these are contrary to one another, so that you do not do the things that you wish. 18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law.

22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness, self-control. Against such there is no law. 24 And those who are Christ’s have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires. 25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.

This is the MUCH MORE I never learned in school!!!

Hello 1stcernturylady,

I see you are avoiding the posts and the scriptures sent you and you are seeking to change the subject in order not to respond to the posts and scriptures that disagree with you. It is ok as you do not have to respond to all these posts and the scriptures in them that disagree with you if you do not want to. At the very least sister you should read the posts and pray about the scriptures that have been provided. These are God's WORD not ours and they do disagree with you.

Back to your change of subject. Very simpy none have God's Spirit while continuing in a live of KNOWN UNREPENTANT SIN (breaking and of God's 10 Commandments *JAMES 2:10-11) *ACTS 2:38. Let's look at the scriptures.

God's eternal law (10 Commandments) give us the KNOWLEDGE of GOOD and EVIL; SIN and RIGHTESOUSNESS *ROMANS 3:20; ROMANS 7:7; 1 JOHN 3:4; PSALMS 119:172. We are not saved by them *EPHESIANS 2:8. They are the mirror *JAMES 4:17 that show us that we are all sinners in need of a Saviour *MATTHEW 9:12-13; ROMANS 3:9-20.

God's LAW (10 Commandments) lead us to the very cross of JESUS without excuse where all we have are the promises of God's WORD *GALATIANS 3:22-25 so that we might be forgiven by faith alone *JOHN 3:36; 1 JOHN 1:9; PROVERBS 28:13; ROMANS 8:1-4, ACTS 2:38 to be BORN AGAIN *JOHN 3:3-7; 1 JOHN 3:3-10; and free from sin (breaking God's Law *ROMANS 3:20; JAMES 2:10-11) to walk in God's Spirit *GALATIANS 5:16.

Salvation is from sin not to continue in known unrepentant sin *JOHN 8:31-36; MATTHEW 9:12-13; 1 JOHN 3:9; 1 JOHN 2:3-4; ROMANS 6:7. If we continue in known unrepentant sin we will die because we reject the gift of God's dear son *ROMANS 6:23; ROMANS 8:2-3; 13.

Which ever way you wish to spin it. If anyone is KNOWINGLY breaking any of God's 10 commandments it is God's WORD alone that says they do not LOVE or KNOW GOD and do not have God's Spirit. *1 JOHN 2:3-4; JOHN 14:15; 15:10. This is the difference between the children of God and the children of the devil *1 JOHN 3:3-10. Those who continue in KNOWN unrepentance sin will not enter into the kingdom of Heaven *HEBREWS 10:26-27 because they reject the gift of God's dear son *ROMANS 6:23.

If we are truly walking in the Spirit *GALATIANS 5:16 we will not fulfil the lusts of the flesh (knowingly continue breaking God's Commandments). This is the NEW COVENANT promise to LOVE *HEBREWS 8:10-12; ROMANS 13:8-10; ROMANS 3:31; 1 JOHN 3:9; 1 JOHN 2:3-4

Hope this helps.

1stcenturylady · Dec 21, 2018

LoveGodsWord said:
Hello 1stcernturylady,

I see you are avoiding the posts and the scriptures sent you and are seeking to change the subject in order not to respond to the posts and scriptures that disagree with you. It is ok as you do not have to respond to all these posts and the scriptures in them that disagree with you if you do not want to. At the very least sister you should read the posts and pray about the scriptures that have been provided. These are God's WORD not ours and they do disagree with you.

Back to your change of subject. Very simpy none have God's Spirit while continuing in a live of KNOWN UNREPENTANT SIN (breaking and of God's 10 Commandments *JAMES 2:10-11) *ACTS 2:38. Let's look at the scriptures.

God's eternal law (10 Commandments) give us the KNOWLEDGE of GOOD and EVIL; SIN and RIGHTESOUSNESS *ROMANS 3:20; ROMANS 7:7; 1 JOHN 3:4; PSALMS 119:172. We are not saved by them *EPHESIANS 2:8. They are the mirror *JAMES 4:17 that show us that we are all sinners in need of a Saviour *MATTHEW 9:12-13; ROMANS 3:9-20.

God's LAW (10 Commandments) lead us to the very cross of JESUS without excuse where all we have are the promises of God's WORD *GALATIANS 3:22-25 so that we might be forgiven by faith alone *JOHN 3:36; 1 JOHN 1:9; PROVERBS 28:13; ROMANS 8:1-4, ACTS 2:38 to be BORN AGAIN *JOHN 3:3-7; 1 JOHN 3:3-10; and free from sin (breaking God's Law *ROMANS 3:20; JAMES 2:10-11) to walk in God's Spirit *GALATIANS 5:16.

Salvation is from sin not to continue in known unrepentant sin *JOHN 8:31-36; MATTHEW 9:12-13; 1 JOHN 3:9; 1 JOHN 2:3-4; ROMANS 6:7. If we continue in known unrepentant sin we will die because we reject the gift of God's dear son *ROMANS 6:23; ROMANS 8:2-3; 13.

Which ever way you wish to spin it. If anyone is KNOWINGLY breaking any of God's 10 commandments it is God's WORD alone that says they do not LOVE or KNOW GOD and do not have God's Spirit. *1 JOHN 2:3-4; JOHN 14:15; 15:10. This is the difference between the children of God and the children of the devil *1 JOHN 3:3-10. Those who continue in KNOWN unrepentance sin will not enter into the kingdom of Heaven *HEBREWS 10:26-27 because they reject the gift of God's dear son *ROMANS 6:23.

If we are truly walking in the Spirit *GALATIANS 5:16 we will not fulfil the lusts of the flesh (breaking God's Commandments). This is the NEW COVENANT promise to LOVE *HEBREWS 8:10-12; ROMANS 13:8-10; ROMANS 3:31; 1 JOHN 3:9; 1 JOHN 2:3-4

Hope this helps.

Your post is all about the law and sin. What can I say to that? The law was needed for mankind, ever since Adam willfully sinned. There is nothing incorrect in it - if you are not a Christian and need to recognize you are a sinner. My post is what you desperately need to understand - the gospel of Christ.

The problem is you are not understanding what it means to be born again of the Spirit. The law is holy, but with the sin nature intact, all you have is knowledge of the law, but not the ability to keep it.

I think you may believe that without the law, we have no hope. No, it is without Jesus, and His Spirit in us, we have no hope.

The biggest mistake I found is the belief that the only reason Jesus came is to take our punishment. That His sacrifice of death on the cross only eliminated our need for blood sacrifices of bulls and goats. No, Jesus was manifested to TAKE AWAY OUR SIN, and in Him there is NO SIN.

I have no desire to sin, and you hopefully don't either, but it is because of the Spirit, not because you try to keep the letter of the law.

You believe that by not keeping the 4th commandment, you break the whole law and are damned, having taken the mark of the beast - Sunday. But, the Sabbath was a shadow of complete rest in Jesus, not just the feasts. Hebrews 4 makes that clear that there is another day selected, having first referred to the past giving of the 7th day, and that new day is TODAY. Because of Jesus, we can come boldly to the throne of grace. The Sabbath was the sign of the Old Covenant, and that is why it was included in the middle of the covenant, the Ten Commandments (Exodus 34:28, "And He wrote on the tablets the words of the covenant, the Ten Commandments." The sign of the New Covenant is the Cup (1 Corinthians 11:25) which represents the blood of the Covenant.

LoveGodsWord · Dec 21, 2018

1stcenturylady said:
Your post is all about the law and sin. What can I say to that?

Well that is no truth at all. The post and scriptures in them that disagree with you show the conditions for receiving God's Spirit. You did not read it now did you. It is God's Word not mine simply ignoring God's WORD does not make it dissappear. Your argument is with God not me. You are free to believe as you wish. We all answer only to God come judgment day.

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