Did God predestine the Fall?

liberty of conscience

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For those who believe in God predestine events, was the Fall one of them?

This may be of help to the topic at hand:

Why was sin permitted?

https://www.thedesireofagesproject....ers_media_-_music_score_and_sound_effects.mp3

God with us

https://www.thedesireofagesproject.com/uploads/6/2/6/8/6268448/da_ch_1_god_with_us1.mp3

"... The plan for our redemption was not an afterthought, a plan formulated after the fall of Adam. It was a revelation of "the mystery which hath been kept in silence through times eternal." Romans 16:25, R. V. It was an unfolding of the principles that from eternal ages have been the foundation of God's throne. From the beginning, God and Christ knew of the apostasy of Satan, and of the fall of man through the deceptive power of the apostate. God did not ordain that sin should exist, but He foresaw its existence, and made provision to meet the terrible emergency. So great was His love for the world, that He covenanted to give His only-begotten Son, "that whosoever believeth in Him should not perish, but have everlasting life." John 3:16. {DA 22.2}

Lucifer had said, "I will exalt my throne above the stars of God; . . . I will be like the Most High." Isaiah 14:13, 14. But Christ, "being in the form of God, counted it not a thing to be grasped to be on an equality with God, but emptied Himself, taking the form of a servant, being made in the likeness of men." Philippians 2:6, 7, R. V., margin. {DA 22.3}

This was a voluntary sacrifice. Jesus might have remained at the Father's side. He might have retained the glory of heaven, and the homage of the angels. But He chose to give back the scepter into [23] the Father's hands, and to step down from the throne of the universe, that He might bring light to the benighted, and life to the perishing. {DA 22.4} ..." - The Desire of Ages (1898), pages 22.2-22.4

Sin was never "ordained", for that is a blasphemous charge against God, though it was foreseen and permitted for a reason (people still cannot seem to understand the difference between omniscience/foreknowledge and omnipotence/permission in the context of God who is love, without freewill/choice there is no love, yet Christ Jesus is the free will offering, God freely gave which takes nothing away from His soverignty).
 
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Not David

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An oft-repeated line by many a Christian but never the Bible.

What causes the will of a man? Himself? What caused the will that caused itself? This is one of the few matters wherein one can claim that a cause is its own cause, yet fail to see the logical farce. God is the only cause without a prior cause. Anything else to which we ascribe this condition is a false god.
God does not control anyone's free will, by doing so everything God says is bad is his own fault.
 
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Not David

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Absolute foreknowledge negates free will, IMHO.

If you have free will, that means there's uncertainty. It could be this, or it could be that.

If what you will choose is known with 100% certainty prior to you choosing it, then there was no true choice in the matter.
God is not bound by time so even saying that God foreknew means like God was present at a point in time
 
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redleghunter

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Absolute foreknowledge negates free will, IMHO.

If you have free will, that means there's uncertainty. It could be this, or it could be that.

If what you will choose is known with 100% certainty prior to you choosing it, then there was no true choice in the matter.
Also considering if we have 100% free will we end up telling God how things should be.

The libertarian free will promoted by some Christians makes God a beggar with hat in hand waiting for us to make some decision for or against Him.

This is the Enlightenment version of Deism.
 
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Not David

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I agree. I also believe God has His purpose and will as well.

Adam and Eve were created with the ability to obey or disobey. They were told not to eat from the tree of knowledge of good and evil.

With that in mind we are told:

Ephesians 1: ESV

3Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in Christ with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places, 4even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him. In love 5he predestined us for adoption to himself as sons through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of his will, 6to the praise of his glorious grace, with which he has blessed us in the Beloved. (ESV)

And chose us here is select deliberately:

1586 eklégomai (from 1537 /ek, "out of" and 3004 /légō, "speaking to a conclusion") – properly, to select (choose) out of, by a highly deliberate choice (i.e. real heart-preference) with a definite outcome (as with the destination of divine selection for salvation).

Looks like before Adam and Eve and the world was created, YHWH had a plan of Redemption. Given that, the disobedience of Adam and Eve was part of that plan.

And yet God did not shove the “apple” in their mouth and Adam and Eve acted according to what nature they had. Which I might add I hear folks say we are somehow restored to before we decide to choose God. Strange as they failed in whatever nature they had. But I digress.

I’m sure the “Calvinistic monster God” straw man is around the corner so I will state the point clearly.

The Apostle Paul tells us God had a plan for salvation before creation. Then God created Adam and Eve. Y’all do the math if you want but that’s what we call what God purposes happens. Aka God’s Sovereignty in His own creation.

Is that fair? Everyone needs to explore that carefully. Sure I can see a Christian just learning the faith and exploring asking that question but a mature well read in Scriptures and walking in the faith? Not a chance.

We should be mindful what the Apostle tells us in Romans 11.

Romans 11: ESV

33Oh, the depth of the riches and wisdom and knowledge of God! How unsearchable are his judgments and how inscrutable his ways!

34“For who has known the mind of the Lord,
or who has been his counselor?”
35“Or who has given a gift to him
that he might be repaid?”

36For from him and through him and to him are all things. To him be glory forever. Amen. (ESV)
The fall was not his plan, by saying so you mean God's will is evil to happen. Instead the coming of Christ was giving man a opportunity to be in perfect communion with God.
 
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Not David

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Also considering if we have 100% free will we end up telling God how things should be.

The libertarian free will promoted by some Christians makes God a beggar with hat in hand waiting for us to make some decision for or against Him.

This is the Enlightenment version of Deism.
People tell God what things should be like all the time.
 
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Hammster

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The fall was not his plan, by saying so you mean God's will is evil to happen. Instead the coming of Christ was giving man a opportunity to be in perfect communion with God.
If the Fall wasn’t His plan, then was the Cross Plan B?
 
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redleghunter

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The fall was not his plan, by saying so you mean God's will is evil to happen. Instead the coming of Christ was giving man a opportunity to be in perfect communion with God.
Can you address why Paul clearly told us God’s plan for salvation was before the foundations of the earth? That means our of time, space matter——creation. God had this plan before God breathed into the nostrils of Adam the breath of life.

Was it a contingency plan waiting to see if God’s creation Adam would comply?
 
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Hammster

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It was his chance of giving us redemption. You probably believe it is God's plan for people to commit adultery rather than working through it.
:doh:

Was it Plan B?
 
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Can you address why Paul clearly told us God’s plan for salvation was before the foundations of the earth? That means our of time, space matter——creation. God had this plan before God breathed into the nostrils of Adam the breath of life.

Was it a contingency plan waiting to see if God’s creation Adam would comply?
How it is what Paul's saying contradictory to God giving people redemption from their own doing?
 
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redleghunter

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God does not control anyone's free will, by doing so everything God says is bad is his own fault.
But you do believe God has His own Purpose and Will, right?

Was it God’s predetermined plan for Jesus Christ to suffer and die?
 
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You answer me:
A man and a woman get married and they divorce, later both of them remarry. Was the second marriage God's plan B?
I asked you a question related to your OP. Please stop deflecting and just answer it.
 
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