What I just don't understand about the Bible.

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What I just don't understand about the Bible is how can the writer of Hebrews in one sentence say that salvation is once for all in Hebrews 10:10 and in Hebrews 9:28. Yet in Hebrews 6:4-6 they apparently state that you can lose your salvation by falling away. Hebrews 6:4-6 has been brought up by multiple people who say that you can lose your salvation. It's my opinion that this interpretation of Hebrews 6:4-6 isn't in fact scriptural since those who have a saving faith will never fall away because God's Holy Spirit works in that person to keep that person in the faith. So why the apparent contradiction in the Bible? And not just between multiple books but between the same Author? I just don't understand this can someone educate me please?
 

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What I just don't understand about the Bible is how can the writer of Hebrews in one sentence say that salvation is once for all in Hebrews 10:10 and in Hebrews 9:28. Yet in Hebrews 6:4-6 they apparently state that you can lose your salvation by falling away. Hebrews 6:4-6 has been brought up by multiple people who say that you can lose your salvation. It's my opinion that this interpretation of Hebrews 6:4-6 isn't in fact scriptural since those who have a saving faith will never fall away because God's Holy Spirit works in that person to keep that person in the faith. So why the apparent contradiction in the Bible? And not just between multiple books but between the same Author? I just don't understand this can someone educate me please?

I would tell you the truth but my comment would be deleted as in the past, private message me if you wish. The truth is in Jesus words only.
 
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What I just don't understand about the Bible is how can the writer of Hebrews in one sentence say that salvation is once for all in Hebrews 10:10 and in Hebrews 9:28. Yet in Hebrews 6:4-6 they apparently state that you can lose your salvation by falling away. Hebrews 6:4-6 has been brought up by multiple people who say that you can lose your salvation. It's my opinion that this interpretation of Hebrews 6:4-6 isn't in fact scriptural since those who have a saving faith will never fall away because God's Holy Spirit works in that person to keep that person in the faith. So why the apparent contradiction in the Bible? And not just between multiple books but between the same Author? I just don't understand this can someone educate me please?
Look at John 5:14 - Jesus says to the man He had healed: "stop sinning so that nothing worse happens to you".

.. so I don't really think there is a valid case for a doctrine that would teach that a person does not need to hold fast to that saving faith that was planted - and there is of course, many scriptures that say otherwise (eg: Hebrews 10:39, Matthew 13:6).

It seems that maybe there is something not quite right about your reading of Hebrews 10:10 and Hebrews 9:28, if you are getting the idea that they contradict that. I think I can see, from what you have said, that you think the expression "once for all" means to say that salvation is a result of a once-off decision (the receiving of The Gospel message), and that it saves a person "for all time" .. and if that is the way you are reading it, then I can see how your reading is not accurate to what the scriptures are really saying, so I will explain:

Look at how I have taken the original Greek words and broken them into parts of English speech:

Hebrews 10:10 Interlinear: in the which will we are having been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once,

[by] [the aforementioned will of God - see verse 9] [we are] [in a state of sanctification] [as a result of/on account of/through] [the offering/sacrifice/foregoing of the body of Christ Jesus] [that has happened once-for-all: perfectly, so that neither is a further offering needed nor can another offering be greater - see Hebrews 10:4 & Hebrews 10:29].

So, reading that expression "once for all" means to say that the sacrifice of Jesus Christ is a supreme sacrifice - no other blood is more precious, and there is no failure in His blood for it's purpose.

It appears to be saying that the sacrifice happened once-for-all, where your reading seems to be saying that the sanctification happens once-for-all .. and I think that when you look at the interlinear Greek translation, and keep in mind the way that Greek is written - where the first words are the weightiest, and as words are added to the sentence, they serve to refine the detail of what has already been said - it is completely different than the way English is written, where our grammar doesn't have any such rules. So as a result, a translator might carelessly end up expressing the speech in a slightly misleading way. For instance, to say "we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all" is not the same as saying the body of Jesus Christ was offered once-for-all, through which we are sanctified" - and yet, the second expression does more accurately convey what the Greek writing expresses, while it is not a strict word-for-word translation, because it has actually put the second half of the sentence before the first half - and yet, English grammar results in the reader obtaining the more accurate emphasis!

.. and then look at Hebrews 9:28 in the same way:

Hebrews 9:28 Interlinear: so also the Christ, once having been offered to bear the sins of many, a second time, apart from a sin-offering, shall appear, to those waiting for him -- to salvation!

[Christ] [once] [having been offered] [for the purpose of] [a great number] [he bears] [the sins] , [there will be a second time] [not to do with sin] [he shall appear] [to those who are looking forward to His return] [for salvation]

Likewise, look at the different ways of expressing this in English:

Christ was offered once in order to bear the sins of many, and He will come a second time not for sin but to those who are looking to Him for their salvation.

.. that shows an active state of "awaiting" "in expectation and hope" of His return "not for the purpose of bearing their sin, but for delivering them unto salvation" - that cannot apply to those who have fallen away, because rather they would not be awaiting His return for salvation - as Hebrews 10:26-27 says, Luke 12:46 becomes their new reality.

When I look at the various English translations, I can see that the translators haven't really grasped the full meaning of what the original writer is expressing (that is evidence of their having not arrived at the same developmental phase of faith as what the writer was at, when he wrote the scripture), and so they are more-or-less just doing their best to say what the Greek says in English, without really having the sufficient insight to convey the fullness of the expression. .. It's not an isolated case at all .. and it is a major problem for English-speaking Christians, that I am finding more and more as I keep looking into the scriptures in the original languages.
 
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bcbsr

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What I just don't understand about the Bible is how can the writer of Hebrews in one sentence say that salvation is once for all in Hebrews 10:10 and in Hebrews 9:28. Yet in Hebrews 6:4-6 they apparently state that you can lose your salvation by falling away. Hebrews 6:4-6 has been brought up by multiple people who say that you can lose your salvation. It's my opinion that this interpretation of Hebrews 6:4-6 isn't in fact scriptural since those who have a saving faith will never fall away because God's Holy Spirit works in that person to keep that person in the faith. So why the apparent contradiction in the Bible? And not just between multiple books but between the same Author? I just don't understand this can someone educate me please?
I don't think Heb 6:4-6 is talking about "losing" salvation. The person he's talking about is an apostate who was never saved to begin with. But here's a comment by:

Kenneth Wuest
(A Translator of the NASB)
on Heb 6:4

Heb 6:4 It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, (NIV)

Heb 6:4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, (AV)

"Partakers of the Holy Ghost"
We must be careful to note that the Greek word translated "partakers" does not mean "possessors," in the sense that these Hebrews possessed the Holy Spirit as an indwelling Person who had come to take up His permanent abode in their hearts. The word is a compound of the Greek verb "to have or hold", and a preposition meaning "with" thus "to hold with." It is used in Luke 5:7 where it is translated "partners," signifying one who co-operates with another in a common task or undertaking. It is used in Hebrews 1:9 where the angels are "fellows" of our Lord, partners or associates with Him in the work of salvation. It is used in Hebrews 3:1 where the recipients of this letter are called participators in the heavenly calling. That is, they participated together in the heavenly calling. These Hebrews had left the earthly calling of the nation Israel, and had identified themselves with the Church which has a heavenly calling. It is used in Hebrews 3:14, where it speaks of those who participate together in the Lord Jesus.

The word (metochos) was so used in secular Greek. Moulton and Milligan give examples of its usage in the following phrases: "We, Dionysius son of Socrates and the associate collectors;" Pikos son of Pamonthes and his colleagues," "the Joint-owner of a holding," "I am unable to take part in the cultivation," "Some do so because they are partners in their misdeeds." Thus the word signifies one who participates with another in a common activity or possession. It is so used here. These Hebrews became participators in the Holy Spirit insofar as an unsaved person can do so, namely, in the sense that they willingly co-operated with Him in receiving His pre-salvation ministry, that of leading them on step by step toward the act of faith. He had led them into the act of repentance. The next step would be that of faith. Here they were in danger of turning their backs upon the Spirit and returning to the sacrifices. Peter in his first epistle (1:2) in the words, "through sanctification of the Spirit unto obedience," speaks of this work of the Holy Spirit on the unsaved, setting them apart from unbelief to faith. This word in its context does not at all imply that these Hebrews had been born of the Spirit, sealed with the Spirit, indwelt by the Spirit, anointed with the Spirit, baptized by the Spirit into the Body of Christ, or filled with the Spirit. This work of the Holy Spirit in leading them on towards faith was a once-for-all work, so thoroughly done that it needed never to be repeated. However, there was nothing permanent of itself in this work, for the work was only a means to an end. This is shown by the aorist participle used, referring to the mere fact, not a perfect, speaking of a finished act having present results. The fact that the writer did not use the perfect tense here, which is a specialized tense, but rather the aorist, which is the maid of all work, points to the incompleteness of the work of the Spirit in the case of these Hebrews. So far as the work had been done, it was perfect, thorough. But it would not be complete until the Hebrews accepted the proffered faith from the Spirit. The incompleteness of the work would be due, therefore, not to the Spirit, but to their willingness to go on as a partner or cooperator with the Spirit.
 
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HTacianas

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What I just don't understand about the Bible is how can the writer of Hebrews in one sentence say that salvation is once for all in Hebrews 10:10 and in Hebrews 9:28. Yet in Hebrews 6:4-6 they apparently state that you can lose your salvation by falling away. Hebrews 6:4-6 has been brought up by multiple people who say that you can lose your salvation. It's my opinion that this interpretation of Hebrews 6:4-6 isn't in fact scriptural since those who have a saving faith will never fall away because God's Holy Spirit works in that person to keep that person in the faith. So why the apparent contradiction in the Bible? And not just between multiple books but between the same Author? I just don't understand this can someone educate me please?

Salvation is spoken of in two or perhaps three different tenses in the bible. A person becomes " saved", past tense, at a given time. So the writer says "you were saved". But then if, and only if, a person has not forfeited that salvation they remain saved. And then if, and only if, a person does not forfeit their salvation in the future, they will remain saved.

That is now, always has been, and always will be the teaching of Christianity. It is only when some other teachings creep in that the confusion begins.
 
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Neostarwcc

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I don't think Heb 6:4-6 is talking about "losing" salvation. The person he's talking about is an apostate who was never saved to begin with. But here's a comment by:

Kenneth Wuest
(A Translator of the NASB)
on Heb 6:4

Heb 6:4 It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, (NIV)

Heb 6:4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, (AV)

"Partakers of the Holy Ghost"
We must be careful to note that the Greek word translated "partakers" does not mean "possessors," in the sense that these Hebrews possessed the Holy Spirit as an indwelling Person who had come to take up His permanent abode in their hearts. The word is a compound of the Greek verb "to have or hold", and a preposition meaning "with" thus "to hold with." It is used in Luke 5:7 where it is translated "partners," signifying one who co-operates with another in a common task or undertaking. It is used in Hebrews 1:9 where the angels are "fellows" of our Lord, partners or associates with Him in the work of salvation. It is used in Hebrews 3:1 where the recipients of this letter are called participators in the heavenly calling. That is, they participated together in the heavenly calling. These Hebrews had left the earthly calling of the nation Israel, and had identified themselves with the Church which has a heavenly calling. It is used in Hebrews 3:14, where it speaks of those who participate together in the Lord Jesus.

The word (metochos) was so used in secular Greek. Moulton and Milligan give examples of its usage in the following phrases: "We, Dionysius son of Socrates and the associate collectors;" Pikos son of Pamonthes and his colleagues," "the Joint-owner of a holding," "I am unable to take part in the cultivation," "Some do so because they are partners in their misdeeds." Thus the word signifies one who participates with another in a common activity or possession. It is so used here. These Hebrews became participators in the Holy Spirit insofar as an unsaved person can do so, namely, in the sense that they willingly co-operated with Him in receiving His pre-salvation ministry, that of leading them on step by step toward the act of faith. He had led them into the act of repentance. The next step would be that of faith. Here they were in danger of turning their backs upon the Spirit and returning to the sacrifices. Peter in his first epistle (1:2) in the words, "through sanctification of the Spirit unto obedience," speaks of this work of the Holy Spirit on the unsaved, setting them apart from unbelief to faith. This word in its context does not at all imply that these Hebrews had been born of the Spirit, sealed with the Spirit, indwelt by the Spirit, anointed with the Spirit, baptized by the Spirit into the Body of Christ, or filled with the Spirit. This work of the Holy Spirit in leading them on towards faith was a once-for-all work, so thoroughly done that it needed never to be repeated. However, there was nothing permanent of itself in this work, for the work was only a means to an end. This is shown by the aorist participle used, referring to the mere fact, not a perfect, speaking of a finished act having present results. The fact that the writer did not use the perfect tense here, which is a specialized tense, but rather the aorist, which is the maid of all work, points to the incompleteness of the work of the Spirit in the case of these Hebrews. So far as the work had been done, it was perfect, thorough. But it would not be complete until the Hebrews accepted the proffered faith from the Spirit. The incompleteness of the work would be due, therefore, not to the Spirit, but to their willingness to go on as a partner or cooperator with the Spirit.

Interesting. If Hebrews 6:4-6 is talking about those who never were saved to begin with than that changes things a bit. But then why would verse 6 say "For those who have fallen away?" Can't only believers fall away?
 
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HTacianas

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Interesting. If Hebrews 6:4-6 is talking about those who never were saved to begin with than that changes things a bit. But then why would verse 6 say "For those who have fallen away?" Can't only believers fall away?

You are correct in that. The writer goes to great lengths to describe a person who has been saved and then falls away.
 
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Neostarwcc

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So guys I just noticed something interesting by reading Gotquestions.org's article on these verses.

The KJV says:

"4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,

5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,

6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

I haven't read the KJV in a long time but, doesn't that sound like a more accurate translation? That if a born again believer were to fall away that it would be impossible to bring them back? If it was possible? That makes Hebrews 6:4-6 line up with the rest of Hebrews and the rest of the Bible because it basically teaches that it is impossible for a born again believer to fall away and IF it were possible than it would be impossible to bring them back.
 
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bcbsr

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Interesting. If Hebrews 6:4-6 is talking about those who never were saved to begin with than that changes things a bit. But then why would verse 6 say "For those who have fallen away?" Can't only believers fall away?
That is they are on the path to salvation, not yet saved, but right at the end, having obtained all the necessary information and evidence for the faith, they decide to reject it.

John teaches, "They went out from us, but they did not really belong to us. For if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us; but their going showed that none of them belonged to us." 1John 2:19
 
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godinho

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What I just don't understand about the Bible is how can the writer of Hebrews in one sentence say that salvation is once for all in Hebrews 10:10 and in Hebrews 9:28. Yet in Hebrews 6:4-6 they apparently state that you can lose your salvation by falling away. Hebrews 6:4-6 has been brought up by multiple people who say that you can lose your salvation. It's my opinion that this interpretation of Hebrews 6:4-6 isn't in fact scriptural since those who have a saving faith will never fall away because God's Holy Spirit works in that person to keep that person in the faith. So why the apparent contradiction in the Bible? And not just between multiple books but between the same Author? I just don't understand this can someone educate me please?

only jesus saves and belief in him he died on the cross for us and our sins
fourcolumnsofabalancedlife.com
 
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eleos1954

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What I just don't understand about the Bible is how can the writer of Hebrews in one sentence say that salvation is once for all in Hebrews 10:10 and in Hebrews 9:28. Yet in Hebrews 6:4-6 they apparently state that you can lose your salvation by falling away. Hebrews 6:4-6 has been brought up by multiple people who say that you can lose your salvation. It's my opinion that this interpretation of Hebrews 6:4-6 isn't in fact scriptural since those who have a saving faith will never fall away because God's Holy Spirit works in that person to keep that person in the faith. So why the apparent contradiction in the Bible? And not just between multiple books but between the same Author? I just don't understand this can someone educate me please?

Hebrews 10:10 - read the prior 2 verses - it is referring to "as opposed to" the old (sacrificial system) sanctuary system (Hebrews 10:8-9) when continuous sacrifices were done. So Hebrews once for all is meaning one sacrifice for all and that being Jesus. His one sacrifice is sufficient for all that accept Him ... but ... as we know one has to accept Him and continue in Him. So the verse is conveying He is the way ... by His one perfect sacrifice is the way to salvation.

Hebrews 9:28 - is basically the same ... conveying through His sacrifice identifying through His blood ... salvation is available and possible through Him.

So the above two verses is about the how ... how salvation is made available through Christ (not the old sacrificial system).

Hebrews 6:4-6

Is talking to believers, and yes believers can fall away ... and is stating if so, then they need to repent.

to fall away as defined in the Greek (Strongs)

parapiptó: to fall in, into or away, to fail
Original Word: παραπίπτω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: parapiptó
Phonetic Spelling: (par-ap-ip'-to)
Definition: to fall in, into or away, to fail
Usage: I fall away, fall back (into the unbelieving and godless ways of the old time).

So yes one can fall away into a unbelieving state and in context here, is talking about the unbelieving state of the old sacrificial system instead of believing in the one time sacrifice of Jesus that is sufficient for all.

God Bless.
 
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What I just don't understand about the Bible is how can the writer of Hebrews in one sentence say that salvation is once for all in Hebrews 10:10 and in Hebrews 9:28. Yet in Hebrews 6:4-6 they apparently state that you can lose your salvation by falling away. Hebrews 6:4-6 has been brought up by multiple people who say that you can lose your salvation. It's my opinion that this interpretation of Hebrews 6:4-6 isn't in fact scriptural since those who have a saving faith will never fall away because God's Holy Spirit works in that person to keep that person in the faith. So why the apparent contradiction in the Bible? And not just between multiple books but between the same Author? I just don't understand this can someone educate me please?
It's not a reliable way to know to compare some verses, even reading through fully one book, to me. Instead, I don't feel I understood well until I'd read fully through many books in the New Testament, and even then some things were better understood later, because I continued to read in order to learn.

The rest of this is very much for everyone, no matter how many times they have read through scriptures.

For everyone --

Each should read with the attitude: "I am reading in order to learn. So, I'm the learner, and the scripture the teacher."

--> Meaning instead of me bringing an idea to find it in some verses, I have to put aside all those ideas.

And be the one listening instead of the one doing the talking.

Instead of me talking to the scripture, telling it stuff, as if I'm the teacher.

Instead of that, I want to be the one listening and learning.

Even years later.

Again. Still. When I read the Gospel of Matthew or John for the 5th or 7th time, I want to be sure I'm the one listening, and not the one talking.

It's humble.

It means when I can't yet understand something, I have to listen more, knowing that over time I will learn from the Teacher.
 
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Serving Zion

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So guys I just noticed something interesting by reading Gotquestions.org's article on these verses.

The KJV says:

"4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,

5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,

6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

I haven't read the KJV in a long time but, doesn't that sound like a more accurate translation? That if a born again believer were to fall away that it would be impossible to bring them back? If it was possible? That makes Hebrews 6:4-6 line up with the rest of Hebrews and the rest of the Bible because it basically teaches that it is impossible for a born again believer to fall away and IF it were possible than it would be impossible to bring them back.
Yes, that is what it is plainly saying - that they have "tasted of the good things of the coming age", "taking part in The Holy Spirit", and then turned away from Him - it's like a prodigal son coming home and then leaving again .. how can The Father ever greet his long lost son with joy after having broken His heart twice? .. it is an unpardonable sin.

Some people twist the scriptures to make it seem that it is saying something that it isn't plainly saying. It's quite clear that there is something of an obstinance, there is conviction in what the scripture plainly says that they don't have personal righteousness to declare - so they twist it to make it fit with their way of thinking in order to avoid the conviction. But they will be known by their fruits.
 
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yeshuaslavejeff

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QUOTE="Neostarwcc, post: 73493338, member: 383061"]What I just don't understand about the Bible is how can the writer of Hebrews in one sentence say that salvation is once for all in Hebrews 10:10 and in Hebrews 9:28. Yet in Hebrews 6:4-6 they apparently state that you can lose your salvation by falling away. Hebrews 6:4-6 has been brought up by multiple people who say that you can lose your salvation. It's my opinion that this interpretation of Hebrews 6:4-6 isn't in fact scriptural since those who have a saving faith will never fall away because God's Holy Spirit works in that person to keep that person in the faith. So why the apparent contradiction in the Bible? And not just between multiple books but between the same Author? I just don't understand this can someone educate me please?[/QUOTE

First: whenever there appears to be any discrepancy in Yahweh's Word, Plan or Purpose,
it is only "appears to be" to those who don't know what is right and true in Yahweh's Understanding, right ?
 
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yeshuaslavejeff

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Lord have mercy on this world.
Why ?

Other testimony in Yahweh's Word indicates praying for His Vengeance to be executed quickly on all those who have shed innocent blood through the ages.

The Bible says all society is pernicious ('death dealing'), particularly in Galatians , Ephesians, and Revelation,
and that even though Yahweh has mercy on whom He chooses to have mercy,
most all the world REFUSES to turn to Him for Help, Healing or Salvation - they reject God and continue serving/worshiping demons, over all the earth.
 
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Welcome back! :wave: .. wow, it's great to see you again bro! (I have been looking for you!)

Why ?

Other testimony in Yahweh's Word indicates praying for His Vengeance to be executed quickly on all those who have shed innocent blood through the ages.

I would like to see this, could you share some of the scripture you have in mind please?

.. I know there is 2 Peter 3:12, Luke 21:22 and Amos 5:18 and 2 Peter 3:9 ..
 
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