yeshuaslavejeff
simple truth, martyr, disciple of Yahshua
As written, we (ekklesia only), might plant or water, but it is (only) Yahweh(the Creator) Who Gives (any) Growth. (anywhere)
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Christs second coming
- Thread starter shilohsfoal
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claninja
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Any one who is in Christ brings forth fruit regardless of where they live. Anyone who is in Christ inherits the true vineyard
Both the New Jerusalem and body of Christ are the bride of Jesus
Revelation 21:2 And I saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband
Ephesians 5:31-32 “Therefore a man shall leave his father and mother and hold fast to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh.” This mystery is profound, and I am saying that it refers to Christ and the church
Both the New Jerusalem and body of Christ are the dwelling place of God
Revelation 21:3 And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, “Behold, the dwelling placea of God is with man. He will dwell with them, and they will be his people,b and God himself will be with them as their God.
Ephesians 2:22 In him you also are being built together into a dwelling place for God bye the Spirit.
Both the New Jerusalem and body of Christ are built on the foundation of the apostles
Revelation 21:14 And the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and on them were the twelve names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb.
Ephesians 2:20 built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus himself being the cornerstone
The slave woman was cast out in 70 ad and sons of the free woman inherited
Galatians 4:30 But what does the Scripture say? “Cast out the slave woman and her son, for the son of the slave woman shall not inherit with the son of the free woman.”
Who is the slave woman? Old covenant earthly jeruslam and those who belong to it
Galatians 4:24-25 Now this may be interpreted allegorically: these women are two covenants. One is from Mount Sinai, bearing children for slavery; she is Hagar. Now Hagar is Mount Sinai in Arabia;e she corresponds to the present Jerusalem, for she is in slavery with her children.
Who are the sons of the free woman? those in the new covenant of the heavenly Jerusalem
Galatians 4:26 But the Jerusalem above is free, and she is our mother.
I do. he is the heir of all things
Hebrews 1:2 2But in these last days He has spoken to us by His Son, whom He appointed heir of all things, and through whom He made the universe.
And if you are in Christ then you are an heir as well.
Galatians 3:25 And if you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham’s seed and heirs according to the promise.
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I disagree.
The physical land that was promised to the Israelites is Old Covenant (I believe).....but the kingdom of God is about "the dwelling place of God is with man. He will dwell with them, and they will be his people, and God himself will be with them as their God" as is states in Rev 21.
The "kingdom of God" is where God's will is being done (it's not a place).
I can agree with your interpretation here.
Here.....I disagree. The persecution that's spoken of was in the first century (the people that Jesus was speaking to experienced it) Context is everything:
Revelation 1:9 ~ I, John, your brother and partner in the tribulation and the kingdom and the patient endurance that are in Jesus, was on the island called Patmos on account of the word of God and the testimony of Jesus
ETA: and you're excluding yourself from God's kingdom?
ETA: and you're excluding yourself from God's kingdom?
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The Promised Land didn't come into the picture until the Israelites were freed from Egypt (in Moses' time). So....."not always".
The covenant that God made with Abraham was (as far as I know) roughly 600 years BEFORE the covenant made with Moses and the Israelites after they were freed from Egypt - and AFTER they had formed the golden calf (and that covenant had an end - it was only for a specific time period).
http://www.cmdeaf.org/wp-content/uploads/2010/09/Bible_Timeline_Covenants.pdf
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True. But that doesn't mean this is all NOT referring to a specific period of time (which was the first century).
What was "promised" that relates to us is His Kingdom. The "Promised land" of Moses (I believe) has passed.
Humanity has free will. Until all of humanity has "put on their new selves" or become more like Christ (IOW....until people grow up spiritually) we will continue to have strife. People in churches also hurt one another (and - to narrow it even more - people in Christian marriages hurt one another).....so it's not just about "the persecuted church" today. It's sin that you're pointing out.
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Remember the Samaritan woman at the well? Jesus explained to her about His kingdom.
Quoting from linked article: The Samaritan woman asks Him about a worship matter of long dispute between Jews and Samaritans — and of great importance to them both: “Our fathers worshiped on this mountain, but you say that in Jerusalem is the place where people ought to worship.” Jesus said to her, “Woman, believe me, the hour is coming when neither on this mountain nor in Jerusalem will you worship the Father. You worship what you do not know; we worship what we know, for salvation is from the Jews. But the hour is coming, and is now here, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth, for the Father is seeking such people to worship him. God is spirit, and those who worship him must worship in spirit and truth.” The woman said to Him, “I know that Messiah is coming (he who is called Christ). When he comes, he will tell us all things.” Jesus said to her, “I who speak to you am he” (John 4:20–26). ~ Worship in Spirit and in Truth by Ligon Duncan
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So......shilohsfoal .....how (in your mind) does the body of Christ play into all that you believe about the Kingdom of God? You seem to be limiting His kingdom to a physical place on the map (and certain people within those borders) - so where does that leave the rest of of that *don't* reside there? Are we not "in the Kingdom of God" ( to your mind)?
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By the way.....what would we call this - when Jesus appeared to Saul on the road to Damascus (after His death, resurrection, and ascension)? What numbered "coming" is this? Or - do we just dismiss it as any "coming" at all?
Acts 9
Jesus Appears to Saul on the Road to Damascus
9 Meanwhile, Saul was still breathing out murderous threats against the disciples of the Lord. He went to the high priest 2 and asked him for letters to the synagogues of Damascus, so that if he found any men or women belonging to the Way, he might bring them to Jerusalem as prisoners.
3 As he went on his way and was approaching Damascus, suddenly a light from heaven flashed around him. 4 He fell to the ground and heard a voice saying to him, “Saul, Saul, why are you persecuting me?”
5 He asked, “Who are you, Lord?”
He replied, “I am Jesus, whom you are persecuting. 6 But get up and go into the city, and you will be told what you need to do.”
7 The men traveling with him stood there speechless. They heard the voice but did not see anyone.
8 They raised Saul up from the ground, but when he opened his eyes, he could not see anything. They took him by the hand and led him into Damascus. 9 For three days he could not see, and he did not eat or drink.
26 When Saul came to Jerusalem, he tried to join the disciples, but they were all afraid of him because they did not believe that he was a disciple. 27 But Barnabas took him and brought him to the apostles. He described to them how Saul had seen the Lord on the road and that the Lord had spoken to him, and how in Damascus he had preached fearlessly in the name of Jesus.
Paul begins Galatians by saying that he was sent by Christ and the Father, and that the other church leaders agreed with him. In Galatians 1:11–2:10, he expands on these two points.Jesus Appears to Saul on the Road to Damascus
9 Meanwhile, Saul was still breathing out murderous threats against the disciples of the Lord. He went to the high priest 2 and asked him for letters to the synagogues of Damascus, so that if he found any men or women belonging to the Way, he might bring them to Jerusalem as prisoners.
3 As he went on his way and was approaching Damascus, suddenly a light from heaven flashed around him. 4 He fell to the ground and heard a voice saying to him, “Saul, Saul, why are you persecuting me?”
5 He asked, “Who are you, Lord?”
He replied, “I am Jesus, whom you are persecuting. 6 But get up and go into the city, and you will be told what you need to do.”
7 The men traveling with him stood there speechless. They heard the voice but did not see anyone.
8 They raised Saul up from the ground, but when he opened his eyes, he could not see anything. They took him by the hand and led him into Damascus. 9 For three days he could not see, and he did not eat or drink.
26 When Saul came to Jerusalem, he tried to join the disciples, but they were all afraid of him because they did not believe that he was a disciple. 27 But Barnabas took him and brought him to the apostles. He described to them how Saul had seen the Lord on the road and that the Lord had spoken to him, and how in Damascus he had preached fearlessly in the name of Jesus.
He begins in verses 11 and 12 by saying that the Gospel he preached was not devised by human wisdom, nor had he received it from the other apostles; rather, he was taught it directly by Jesus Christ Himself. He continues by reminding them that he had been trained in and was fanatically devoted to the erroneous traditions of Judaism. When God called Paul on the Damascus road, he was commissioned to preach the Gospel of Christ. ~ Ligonier Ministries
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So you believe the pharisees were doing Gods will because they assuredly dwelt in the kingdom of God.Jesus said so.
Matthew 21:43 Therefore I tell you that the kingdom of God will be taken away from you and given to a people who will produce its fruit.
But lets be clear.The only thing taken from the pharisees was the land they dwelt upon.Many pharisees continued to practice judaism after they were expelled fromthe kingdom.
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One becomes of the kigdom of god after receiving te spirit of God within them.But the time that the saints recieve the litteral kingdom is not yet.As of now.A little horn posseses that kingdom.
Daniel 7:25 He will speak out against the Most High and oppress the saints of the Most High, intending to change the set times and laws, and the saints will be given into his hand for a time, and times, and half a time.
Daniel 7:26 But the court will convene, and his dominion will be taken away and completely destroyed forever.
Daniel 7:27 Then the sovereignty, dominion, and greatness of the kingdoms under all of heaven will be given to the people, the saints of the Most High. His kingdom will be an everlasting kingdom, and all rulers will serve and obey Him.'
After the beast which dwells in the proised land is destroyed,the saints inherit the promised land.Forever
They will bring forth the fruit of that kingdom.
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YOU were the one making this about physical land (not me).
What was taken from the Pharisees was the power they had by being in control of the temple. Jesus is now the high priest.
No one practices Mosaic/Old covenant judaism (not after the temple was destroyed in 70 AD).
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They would be full Preterist's and that is a rare position to be in. What you may be referring to is the understanding of the "Olivet Discourse" and parts of Revelation. Partial Preterist's , in contrary to Dispensationalist's, believe most of the apocalyptic language in both books describes the 70 AD destruction of Jerusalem. There is a good argument for this. Do more research on the subject.
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YOU were the one making this about physical land (not me).
What was taken from the Pharisees was the power they had by being the high priests. Jesus is now the high priest.
No one practices Mosaic/Old covenant judaism (not after the temple was destroyed in 70 AD).
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I probably shouldn't be doing your work for you - but here's a start:
Hebrews 8:1-2 ~The point of what we are saying is this: We do have such a high priest, who sat down at the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in heaven, and who serves
in the sanctuary, the true tagernacle set up by the LORD, not by man.
in the sanctuary, the true tagernacle set up by the LORD, not by man.
4
The Old Covenant Priesthood Foreshadows the Priesthood of the New Covenant
If an Israelite high priest were to come into the fellowship of a Christian
group today, dressed in his linen tunic, ephod, breastplate, turban, and Urim
and Thummim, he would certainly create quite a stir. When one reads Exodus and Leviticus,
it can be a daunting task to try to relate to all the ceremony, regulations,
special clothing, different orders associated with the Jewish priesthood. If one will
bear in mind that in all this, God had a plan to reveal his plan for the ministry
of Jesus Christ and his church, this confusing array of information which we
cannot really relate to will begin to make sense. In trying to understand the Old
Covenant priesthood and the foreshadows in all these regulations, we will find
further evidence to support the claim that the theme of the Old Testament is
The Messiah is coming, bringing salvation.
Under the Old Covenant, the tabernacle and the temple would not have counted
for much without priests to serve there. Who were the priests? What did they do, and what,
specifically does all this foreshadow in the New Testament? That is the subject of this
chapter.
THE PRIESTHOOD
First, we will need a primer on the Jewish priesthood. Sometimes the priesthood in the
Mosaic Law is called the levitical priesthood. This is somewhat of a misnomer. All priests were
Levites, but not all Levites were priests. The Levites were the sons of Levi, one of
the twelve sons of Israel. God designated the Levites to serve at the tabernacle
and the temple. The Levites were, in a sense, the tithe of God's people devoted
to the ministry of God. However, only a small portion of the Levites were actually designated priests. The LORD said to Moses, "Speak to the priests, the sons of Aaron" (Leviticus 21:1). Only the sons of Aaron were accepted as priests to actually serve in the sanctuary, making sacrifices, keeping the lamp lit, replacing the bread and so forth.
The rest of the Levites were designated for such tasks as moving the tabernacle,
singing at the temple and so forth. Their fellow Levites were assigned to all the
other duties of the tabernacle, the house of God. But Aaron and his descendants
were the ones who presented offerings on the altar of burnt offering and on
the altar of incense in connection with all that was done in the Most Holy Place,
making atonement for Israel, in accordance with all that Moses the servant of God had commanded. (1 Chronicles 6:48,49).
There were many special regulations in the Law of Moses requiring the sons of
Aaron, the priests, to keep ceremonially clean. They could not touch a dead body, shave their head or marry women who had formerly been prostitutes and so forth. They must be holy to their God and must not profane the name of their God. Because they present the offerings made to the LORD by fire, the food of theirGod, they are to be holy. (Leviticus 21:6). No son of Aaron with any physical deformity was allowed to serve in the sanctuary. To us, this might seem a bit prejudiced against the physically disabled, but all these restrictions have meaning in the antitype to the priesthood in the New Testament. The point of all these restrictions was so that priests would be more "holy" than the other Israelites. The word holy in the Hebrew means one specially designated, set apart, or pure. This will have great significance in the antitype to the priesthood in the New Testament.
Amongst the priests, there was one specially designated as high priest. The office of high priest was of great significance to the entire system of Law instituted by God through Moses. The High Priest, obviously, had to be a descendant of Aaron. In fact, Aaron was the first high priest. The high priest was designated so by anointing with oil. There were even more stringent rules for holiness for the high priest than for the other sons of Aaron. ~ The Old Covenant Priesthood Prefigures the Priethood in the New Covenant | Evidence for Christianity
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