The Rule of faith and practice is not scripture "alone"

swordsman1

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same Greek word same meaning

"σπέρμα spérma, sper'-mah; from G4687; something sown, i.e. seed (including the male "sperm"); by implication, offspring; specially, a remnant (figuratively, as if kept over for planting):—issue, seed."

the seed is Christ (Gal 3)

the seed is the word of God (Luke 8)

No that is wrong. The word has 2 meanings. It can mean offspring (descendents). Or it can mean plant seeds.

Strong's Concordance

sperma: that which is sown, i.e. seed
Original Word: σπέρμα, ατος, τό
Part of Speech: Noun, Neuter
Transliteration: sperma
Phonetic Spelling: (sper'-mah)
Definition: that which is sown, seed
Usage: (a) seed, commonly of cereals, (b) offspring, descendents.


In the parable of the sower Jesus likened plant seeds to God's word planted in people's hearts:

"Now the parable is this: the seed is the word of God. Those beside the road are those who have heard; then the devil comes and takes away the word from their heart," (Luke 8:11-12)
 
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swordsman1

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first of all God is no respecter of persons, and have not the faith of our Lord with respect of persons James 2.

"Secondly, That for this end God hath communicated and given unto every man a measure of the Light of his own Son, a measure of grace, or a measure of the Spirit, which the Scripture expresses by several names, as sometimes of "the seed of the kingdom" (Matt. 13:18-19); the "Light that makes all things manifest" (Eph. 5:13); the "Word of God" (Rom. 10:17)" (Robert Barclay 1678)


"That this saving Light and Seed, or a measure of it, is given to all, Christ telleth expressly in the parable of the sower (Matt. 13 from v. 18; Mark 4, and Luke 8:11), he saith That this "seed" sown in those several sorts of grounds is the "Word of the Kingdom," which the apostle calls the Word of faith (Rom. 10:8, James 1:21) the "implanted ingrafted Word, which is able to save the soul"; the words themselves declare that it is that, which is saving, in the nature of it, for in the good ground, it fructified abundantly."(Robert Barclay 1678)


Clement of Alexandria saith (lib. 2, Stromat.), "The divine Word hath cried, calling all, knowing well those that will not obey. And yet, because it is in our power either to obey or not to obey, that none may have a pretext of ignorance it hath made a righteous call and requireth but that which is according to the ability and strength of every one." The selfsame, in his Warning to the Gentiles: "For as" (saith he) "that heavenly ambassador of the Lord, the grace of God that brings salvation, hath appeared unto all, &c. This is the new song, coming, and manifestation of the Word which now shows itself in us, which was in the beginning and was first of all." And again, "Hear, therefore, ye that are afar off; hear ye who are near; the Word is hid from none, the Light is common to all and shineth to all. There is no darkness in the Word; let us hasten to salvation, to the new birth, that we, being many, may be gathered unto the one alone love." Ibid., he saith that "There is infused into all, but principally into those that are trained up in doctrine, a certain divine influence,." And again he speaketh concerning "the innate witness, worthy of belief, which of itself doth plainly choose that which is most honest." And again he saith, "That it is not impossible to come unto the Truth and lay hold of it, seeing it is most near to us, in our own houses, as the most wise Moses declareth, living in three parts of us: viz., in our hands, in our mouth, and in our heart. This," saith he, "is a most true badge of the Truth, which is also fulfilled in three things, namely in counsel, in action, in speaking." And again he saith also unto the unbelieving nations, "Receive Christ, receive Light, receive sight to the end thou mayest rightly know both God and man. The Word that hath enlightened us is more pleasant than gold, and the stone of great value." And again he saith, "Let us receive the Light that we may receive God; let us receive the Light that we may be the scholars of the Lord." And again he saith to those infidel nations, "The heavenly Spirit helpeth thee; resist and flee pleasure." Again (lib. Strom. 5) he saith, "God forbid that man be not a partaker of divine acquaintance, who in Genesis is said to be a partaker of inspiration." And (Paed. lib,. 1, cap. 3), "There is," saith he, "some lovely and some desirable thing in man which is called the in-breathing of God,." The same man (lib. Strom. 10) directeth men unto the Light and Water in themselves, who have the eye of the soul darkened or dimmed through evil upbringing and learning: let them enter in unto their own domestic Light, or unto the Light which is in their own house, unto the Truth which manifests accurately and clearly these things that have been written.



Justin Martyr, in his first apology, saith, "that the Word which was and is, is in all; even that very same Word which, through the prophets, foretold things to come."



The writer of the Call of all Nations, saith (lib. i, cap. 2), "We believe according to the same (viz. Scripture), and most religiously confess, that God was never wanting in care to the generality of men; who although he did lead by particular lessons, a people gathered to himself unto godliness, yet he withdrew from no nation of men the gifts of his own goodness, that they might be convinced that they had received the words of the prophets, and legal commands in services and testimonies of the first principles." Cap. 7, he saith, "That he believes that the help of grace hath been wholly withdrawn from no man." Lib. 2, cap. l, "Because, albeit salvation is far from sinners, yet there is nothing void of the presence and virtue of his salvation." Cap. 2, "But seeing none of that people over whom was set both the doctrines, were justified but through Grace by the Spirit of faith, who can question, but that they, who of whatsoever nation, in whatsoever times, could please God, were ordered by the Spirit of the Grace of God: which albeit in fore-time it was more sparing and hid, yet denied itself to no ages, being in virtue one, in quantity different, in counsel unchangeable, in operation multifarious."


Clement of Alexandria saith (Apol. ii., Strom. lib. i.), that "this wisdom or philosophy was necessary to the Gentiles, and was their schoolmaster to lead them unto Christ, by which of old the Greeks were justified."



"Nor do I think," saith Augustine, in his book of the City of God, lib. 18, cap. 47, "that the Jews dare affirm that none belonged unto God but the Israelites." Upon which place Ludovicus Vives saith, that "thus the Gentiles, not having a law, were a law unto themselves; and the light of so living is the gift of God, and proceeds from the Son; of whom it is written that he enlighteneth every man that cometh into the world."


Augustine also testifies in his Confessions (lib. 7, cap. 9), that "he had read in the writings of the Platonists, though not in the very same words, yet that which by many and multiplied reasons did persuade, that 'in the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, this was in the beginning with God, by which all things were made, and without which nothing was made that was made: in him was Life, and the Life was the Light of men: and the Light shined in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it. And, albeit the soul gives testimony concerning the Light, yet it is not the Light, but the Word of God; for God is the true Light, which enlighteneth every man that cometh into the world'"; and so repeats to verse 14 of John 1, adding, "These things have I there read."


Yea, there is a book translated out of the Arabic, which gives an account of one Hai Eben Yokdan, who, without converse of man, living in an island alone, attained to such a profound knowledge of God, as to have immediate converse with him, and to affirm, "That the best and most certain knowledge of God, is not that which is attained by premises premised, and conclusions deduced, but that which is enjoyed by conjunction of the mind of man with the supreme intellect, after the mind is purified from its corruptions, and is separated from all bodily images, and is gathered into a profound

Seeing then it is by this inward Gift, Grace, and Light, that both those, that have the Gospel preached unto them, come to have Jesus brought forth in them, and to have the saving and sanctified use of all outward helps and advantages; and also by this same Light, that all may come to be saved; and that God calls, invites, and strives with all, in a day, and saveth many, to whom he hath not seen meet to convey this outward knowledge; therefore we, having the experience of the inward and powerful work of this Light in our hearts, even Jesus revealed in us, cannot cease to proclaim the day of the Lord, that it is arisen in it, crying out with the woman of Samaria; "Come and see one, that hath told me all that ever I have done: Is not this the Christ?" That others may come and feel the same in themselves, and may know, that little small thing that reproves them in their hearts, however they have despised it and neglected it, is nothing less than the Gospel preached in them; "Christ, the wisdom and power of God," being in and by that Seed seeking to save their souls.


Of this Light therefore Augustine speaks in his Confessions (lib. 11, cap. 9): "In this beginning, O God! thou madest the heavens and the earth, in thy Word, in thy Son, in thy virtue, in thy wisdom, wonderfully saying, and wonderfully doing. Who shall comprehend it? Who shall declare it? What is that which shineth in unto me, and smites my heart without hurt, at which I both tremble, and am inflamed? I tremble, in so far as I am unlike unto it; and I am inflamed in so far as I am like unto it? It is Wisdom, which shineth in unto me and dispelleth my cloud, which had again covered me, after I was departed from that darkness and 11 of my punishments." And again he saith (lib. x., cap. 27), "It is too late that I have loved thee, O thou beautifulness, so ancient, and so new, late have I loved thee, and behold thou wast within, and I was without, and there was seeking thee! thou didst call, thou didst cry, thou didst break my deafness, thou glancedst, thou didst shine, thou chasedst away my darkness."


Of this also our countryman, George Buchanan, speaketh thus in his book, De Jure Regni apud Scotos: "Truly I understand no other thing at present, than that Light, which is divinely infused into our souls; for when God formed man, he not only gave him eyes to his body, by which he might shun those things that are hurtful to him, and follow those things that are profitable. But also hath set before his mind, as it were, a certain Light, by which he may discern things that are vile from things that are honest. Some call this power nature, others the law of nature; I truly judge it to be divine, and am persuaded that nature and wisdom never say different things. Moreover God hath given us a compend of the law, which in few words comprehends the whole: to wit, that we should love him from our hearts, and our neighbours as ourselves. And of this law all the books of the Holy Scriptures, which pertain to the forming of manners, contain no other but an explication."


This is that universal, evangelical principle in and by which this salvation of Christ is exhibited to all men, both Jew and Gentile, Scythian and Barbarian, of whatsoever country or kindred he be. And therefore God hath raised up unto himself, in this our age, faithful witnesses and evangelists to preach again his everlasting Gospel, and to direct all, as well the high professors, who boast of the Law, and the Scriptures, and the outward knowledge of Christ, as the infidels and heathens that know not him that way, that they may all come to mind the Light in them, and know Christ in them, "the Just One, whom they have so long killed and made merry over, and he hath not resisted" (James 5:6), and give up their sins, iniquities, false faith, professions, and outside righteousness, to be crucified by the power of his cross in them, so as they may know Christ within to be the "hope of glory," and may come to walk in his Light and be saved, who is that "true Light that enlighteneth every man that cometh into the world."

I asked for commentators who agreed with your idea about God being the preacher in Rom 10:14. Not one of your quotations addresses that. You have provided commentaries on a completely different passage.
 
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swordsman1

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I believe the Bible teaches that all three persons of the Godhead or the Trinity can dwell within the believer:

The Father dwells within the believer:
...
The Son dwells within the believer:
...​

So do I..... in the form of the Spirit of Christ and the Spirit of the Father. Which is how LoveofTruth also sees it from what I understand. Where we differ is he doesn't think the Spirit of Christ is the Holy Spirit, when scripture plainly says otherwise. He thinks there are 3 Spirits.
 
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swordsman1

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I believe the Bible teaches that Jesus indwelled OT saints.

"And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ."
(1 Corinthians 10:4).

I don't think we can say that Christ was "in" them from this verse. It says Christ was the rock, not the water.

For there is no other name under heaven whereby men can be saved (See: Acts of the Apostles 4:12).

OT saints were indeed saved the same way we are - by faith in Christ (they looked forward to Him, rather than back). But the Spirit of Christ wasn't "in" them, in the same way as the Spirit indwells believers today.
 
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So do I..... in the form of the Spirit of Christ and the Spirit of the Father. Which is how LoveofTruth also sees it from what I understand. Where we differ is he doesn't think the Spirit of Christ is the Holy Spirit, when scripture plainly says otherwise. He thinks there are 3 Spirits.

Brother: I do not think "Love of Truth" is proposing that God has three distinct spirits anymore than you believe in Modalism or the Oneness doctrine (Which you have stated you do not believe in).

Update: Okay, I read one of his recent posts that you quoted and he does refer to the different persons as spirits but I think he is not saying there are three distinct spirits. I think he is merely not explaining himself clearly or choosing the right words in this instance. He has already stated he does not believe God is three spirits. "Love of Truth" believes in the Trinity. While we all disagree on certain things, I do not believe any of us here disagrees on the Trinity.
 
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So do I..... in the form of the Spirit of Christ and the Spirit of the Father. Which is how LoveofTruth also sees it from what I understand. Where we differ is he doesn't think the Spirit of Christ is the Holy Spirit, when scripture plainly says otherwise. He thinks there are 3 Spirits.

I differ, but I am not going to fight or debate over it. I see all three persons of the Godhead or the Trinity as dwelling within the believer. There are more verses I could have posted, but I left them out because I wanted to keep my post short and to the point.

As for Love of Truth and your thinking he believes God is three Spirits. Well, he said he doesn't believe that so I think he is not using wording that is exactly clear always. Words can sometimes be imprecise in what we want to think or say. I think that is the case here.
 
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I don't think we can say that Christ was "in" them from this verse. It says Christ was the rock, not the water.

Jesus uses the words "living water" in John chapter 4 with the woman at the well. Jesus was referring to the Holy Spirit as the living water. Jesus said, "...the water that I shall give him shall be in him a well of water springing up into everlasting life." (John 4:14). Jesus wanted to have her drink of this living water. This water that He (Jesus) was to give to her (at some future date) was GOD the Holy Spirit (Third person of the Trinity who is one spirit or who is one God).

In 1 Corinthians 10 we see a similar thing taking place. Except this time the drinking was of the Rock. The Israelites drank of that Rock, and that Rock they drank of spiritually was Christ. Jesus is the Rock of our Salvation. Without us abiding in Christ, we have no spiritual life (1 John 5:12). Jesus says, "If ye abide in me, and my words abide in you," (John 15:7). Jesus did not say abide in me via the Spirit. If you disagree, I am not going to debate with you over it.

You said:
OT saints were indeed saved the same way we are - by faith in Christ (they looked forward to Him, rather than back). But the Spirit of Christ wasn't "in" them, in the same way as the Spirit indwells believers today.

David said, "Cast me not away from thy presence; and take not thy holy spirit from me." (Psalms 51:11).

Stephen said, in Acts 7:51,
"Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always resist the Holy Ghost: as your fathers did, so do ye."

"And the Lord said unto Moses, Take thee Joshua the son of Nun, a man in whom is the spirit, and lay thine hand upon him;" (Numbers 27:18).

"the Spirit of Christ [i.e. Holy Ghost] which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ," (1 Peter 1:11).

They were born again spiritually in the OT.

The words "circumcision of the heart" was used instead of "born again."

"Thus saith the Lord GOD; No stranger, uncircumcised in heart, nor uncircumcised in flesh, shall enter into my sanctuary, of any stranger that is among the children of Israel." (Ezekiel 44:9).

..It behoveth you to be born from above; the Spirit where he willeth doth blow....thus is every one who hath been born of the Spirit.
John 3:7-8

...as in:

26 But the Jerusalem that is above is free, which is our mother.
27 For it is written, Rejoice, thou barren that bearest not; Break forth and cry, thou that travailest not: For more are the children of the desolate than of her that hath the husband.
28 Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are children of promise.
29 But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born after the Spirit, so also it is now.
Galatians 4:26-29

In other words, Galatians 4:28-29 says very plainly that Isaac was born of the Spirit.
 
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LoveofTruth

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No that is wrong. The word has 2 meanings. It can mean offspring (descendents). Or it can mean plant seeds.

Strong's Concordance

sperma: that which is sown, i.e. seed
Original Word: σπέρμα, ατος, τό
Part of Speech: Noun, Neuter
Transliteration: sperma
Phonetic Spelling: (sper'-mah)
Definition: that which is sown, seed
Usage: (a) seed, commonly of cereals, (b) offspring, descendents.


In the parable of the sower Jesus likened plant seeds to God's word planted in people's hearts:

"Now the parable is this: the seed is the word of God. Those beside the road are those who have heard; then the devil comes and takes away the word from their heart," (Luke 8:11-12)
I almost laughed here (almost).

You said the seed is "plant seeds". The seed is the word of God and the seed is Christ. Neither are "plant seeds". Jesus is using a earthly figure of seeds planting, to refer to the seed which is the word of God sown in the heart. This seed is sown on every heart of all men everywhere as I can show by scripture. The something sown is the incorruptible seed, the word of God. This is the mystery that hath been hid from ages, Christ in you the hope of glory.

The destiny of the unevangelized is a good study connected to this topic. How does God reach and save those who never hear the scriptures or the message of Jesus Christ life and death and resurrection?

Scripture says that God is able to save them ( through Christ Jesus).

"Sperma" implies the same as our word sperm, this is the life sown in the heart, Christ, the word of God the true Light which lighteth every man that cometh into the world.

In Him was life and the life was the light of men...
 
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LoveofTruth

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You have misread the verse. It doesn't say Christ will be with you. It says the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with your spirit.
You seem mixed up here the scripture i quoted says

Galatians 6:18
Brethren, the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with your spirit. Amen."


We already know that Jesus Christ is in every believer. The effect he has in us is of Him and the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ is Him working in us.

The word grace means


"from 5463; graciousness (as gratifying), of manner or act (abstract or concrete; literal, figurative or spiritual; especially the divine influence upon the heart, and its reflection in the life; including gratitude):--acceptable, benefit, favour, gift, grace(- ious), joy, libe"


We read that God works in every believer through Jesus Christ and Jesus Christ in us is in Spirit. The Father also works in us and the Holy Ghost.

"20 Now the God of peace, that brought again from the dead our Lord Jesus, that great shepherd of the sheep, through the blood of the everlasting covenant, 21 Make you perfect in every good work to do his will, working in you that which is wellpleasing in his sight, through Jesus Christ; to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen."(Hebrews 13:20,21 KJV)

This work of God is in us as God dwells in our heart working in us through Jesus Christ.

But this is also the Father and the Son in us working this grace.

"Paul, and Silvanus, and Timotheus, unto the church of the Thessalonians which is in God the Father and in the Lord Jesus Christ: Grace be unto you, and peace, from God our Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ."(1 Thess. 1:1 KJV)
 
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I almost laughed here (almost).

You said the seed is "plant seeds". The seed is the word of God and the seed is Christ. Neither are "plant seeds". Jesus is using a earthly figure of seeds planting, to refer to the seed which is the word of God sown in the heart. This seed is sown on every heart of all men everywhere as I can show by scripture. The something sown ia=s the incorruptible seed, the word of God. This is the mystery that hath been hod from ages, Christ in you the hope of glory.

The destiny of the unevangelized is a good study connected to this topic. How does God reach and save those who never hear the scriptures or the message of Jesus Christ life and death and resurrection?

Scripture says that God is able to save them ( through Christ Jesus).

"Sperma" implies the same as our word sperm, this is the life sown in the heart, Christ, the word of God the true Light which lighteth every man that cometh into the world.

In Him was life and the life was the light of men...

Depending on the context, I believe the "seed" can either refer to Jesus (the Living Word) or the communicated Word of God.

Galatians 3:16 is clearly in reference to the "seed" as Jesus (Which would also include Galatians 3:19). For verse 16 tells us clearly that this is the case. I believe in the Parable of the Sower (Mark 4:13-20) that Jesus is the "Sower" and the "seed" is the communicated Word of God (the gospel we preach and Christ's teachings).

In 1 John 3:9, I see the "seed" as in reference to Christ based on 1 John 3:6 and by 1 John 4:9 that says, "...because that God sent his only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through him." Also, 1 John 1:3 says, "truly our fellowship is with the Father, and with his Son Jesus Christ."

I believe 1 Peter 1:23 is talking about being born again by the "seed" that is the communicated Word of God; For 1 Peter 2:2 says we are to desire the sincere milk of the Word.

In Matthew 13:38 the "good seed" is in reference to the children of the kingdom. So it depends on the context.
 
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LoveofTruth

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No, there are not 3 distinct Spirits. That is heresy. There is ONE Spirit, the Holy Spirit - also know as the Spirit of Christ and the Spirit of the Father.
I did not say they way you say things

I said

"And as i showed we read of the Spirit of the father speaking, the Spirit of the Son and the Holy Ghost. we see all three are distinct and yet one God"

I have spoken of One God in three persons.

How do you understand three persons? The person of the Father, the person of the Son the person of the Holy Ghost. How do you understand the distinction of each? These THREE are ONE, as scripture says.

How do you understand the word "THREE"?.

Do you understand the the word "person" as real or some simple expression of the three that cannot be even clarified? What does the word "person" mean to you as used in the understanding of the Trinity, where it is said, "God is one God in three persons". And the word "three" as well what does this word mean, three what?

If you say three persons, what are the persons?

When you say the Holy Ghost is the "Spirit of Christ" you seem to be denying that Jesus Christ came in the flesh. We do not read that the Holy Ghost came in the flesh as Jesus Christ the Son of God, or that the Father came in the flesh as Jesus Christ did. Jesus is the Christ. Christ died for our sins. Christ is in believers, this is Jesus Christ in us. If Jesus Christ is in us, he is in us in Spirit.

Is Christ Spirit?

Is Jesus Christ in believers Spirit?

Is the Father in believers Spirit?

Why have any distinction between the Father and the Son and the Holy Ghost in scripture, why did not the writers simply say "God in us"? There are reasons for the expressions and different work of all three.

When Jesus speaks of the Spirit of the Father before the cross speaking in men He is not referring to the the Holy Ghost there. You try to say they are just different expressions of the same Holy Ghost. But by doing so you eliminate the three persons.

You are the one who will tangle yourself up trying to understand how "three are one". I simply show scripture about this and I would like you to show how you understand this event of Jesus baptism, where we see the Father speaking from heaven, the Son of God, Jesus Christ in the water and the Holy Ghost descending in bodily form like a dove.

What substance was the bodily form like a dove that the Holy Ghost descended in? We know that Jesus Christ came in the flesh and the word was made flesh. This is different than the Holy Ghost bodily form. How do you see this event?

Do you see three persons in the baptism of Jesus, yet, One God as I do? Is the Father Spirit and in heaven? is the Holy Ghost Spirit and descending in a bodily form from heaven? Is Jesus Christ literally in the water being baptized on Earth? and is the Son Spirit., yet one God, God is a spirit.

"21 Now when all the people were baptized, it came to pass, that Jesus also being baptized, and praying, the heaven was opened, 22 And the Holy Ghost descended in a bodily shape like a dove upon him, and a voice came from heaven, which said, Thou art my beloved Son; in thee I am well pleased."(Luke 3:21, 22 KJV)
 
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LoveofTruth

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Depending on the context, I believe the "seed" can either refer to Jesus (the Living Word) or the communicated Word of God.
I see that when Jesus Christ is in believers and he speaks in us, this is His word. He is the word.

2 Corinthians 13:3, 5
Since ye seek a proof of Christ speaking in me, which to you-ward is not weak, but is mighty in you....5 Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?"


John 6:63
It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.


"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 The same was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. 4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men. ...9 That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world. 10 He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not."(John 1:1-9 KJV)

Hebrews 4:12, 13
"For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart. 13 Neither is there any creature that is not manifest in his sight: but all things are naked and opened unto the eyes of him with whom we have to do."


The word of God is connected to the word "his" sight and "him".

The Word is also the Light of the world and the true Light which lighteth every man that cometh into the world. Jesus spoke of the "light that is in you" in a certain place. He is Light and the Father is also the Father of lights. From Christ in us shines His light.

Psalm 36:9
For with thee is the fountain of life: in thy light shall we see light."


Job 29:3
When his candle shined upon my head, and when by his light I walked through darkness;"


Psalm 18:28
For thou wilt light my candle: the Lord my God will enlighten my darkness."
 
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Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.
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I see that when Jesus Christ is in believers and he speaks in us, this is His word. He is the word.

2 Corinthians 13:3, 5
Since ye seek a proof of Christ speaking in me, which to you-ward is not weak, but is mighty in you....5 Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?"


John 6:63
It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.


"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 The same was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. 4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men. ...9 That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world. 10 He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not."(John 1:1-9 KJV)

Hebrews 4:12, 13
"For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart. 13 Neither is there any creature that is not manifest in his sight: but all things are naked and opened unto the eyes of him with whom we have to do."


The word of God is connected to the word "his" sight and "him".

The Word is also the Light of the world and the true Light which lighteth every man that cometh into the world. Jesus spoke of the "light that is in you" in a certain place. He is Light and the Father is also the Father of lights. From Christ in us shines His light.

Psalm 36:9
For with thee is the fountain of life: in thy light shall we see light."


Job 29:3
When his candle shined upon my head, and when by his light I walked through darkness;"


Psalm 18:28
For thou wilt light my candle: the Lord my God will enlighten my darkness."

I believe the Lord can communicate to me using His Word. He can use life situations, articles, etc. that all relate to the Word of God that I have been studying.
 
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LoveofTruth

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And your theology, with your 3 Spirits idea, appears to be leaning toward Tritheism.
I don't believe in three Separate Spirits. But these THREE are one.

The question is three (what) are one ( what)?

there is no denying that we read of the Spirit of the Father (before the cross)

The Spirit of the Son

the Holy Ghost

and we see all three in one verse in a few places

Matthew 28:19
Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:"


1 John 5:7
For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.


2 Corinthians 13:14
The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the communion of the Holy Ghost, be with you all. Amen." Here we see that Jesus Christ is distinct from the Holy Ghost and the father. There is no getting around this. Paul didn't simply use the expression Father for the Holy Ghost or Jesus Christ here. If you try to imply that this is what is meant by the words Spirit of the father or The Spirit of Christ as if they are the same person, then you teach heresy. The father did not come in the flesh and die on the cross. The Son did, Jesus Christ came in the flesh sent down from heaven by the Father.


John 14:26
"26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you."

 
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LoveofTruth

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The claim you originally made was: ""Christ" is the Spirit of Christ" and one in the same as scripture shows". I asked what scripture shows that?

That verse doesn't say Christ the Person is the Spirit of Christ as you claimed. It says may his grace be with your spirit.

Christ in scripture is identified as Jesus Christ clearly.

1 John 2:22
Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son."


Do you not believe in the person of Christ?

2 Corinthians 2:10
To whom ye forgive any thing, I forgive also: for if I forgave any thing, to whom I forgave it, for your sakes forgave I it in the person of Christ;"


Is not Christ Spirit before he came in the flesh? If not then what was Christ before he came in the flesh? If not Spirit then what? If Christ was Spirit before he came in the flesh and then Jesus Christ Came in the flesh he is still the Spirit of Christ only now in the flesh. So if Jesus Christ is in believers he is still the Spirit of Christ in them. Jesus said I in you and you in me. This would be by His Spirit.

Jesus said of himself (before the cross)

"4 Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me."(John 15:4 KJV) This would be Jesus Christ in then and they in him before the Holy Ghost was given. So Jesus Christ in them is in Spirit, the Spirit of Christ in them.

If Christ is Spirit in believers then "the Spirit of Christ" is one and the same as Jesus Christ in believers. if Jesus Christ is in believers then Jesus Christ is in them in Spirit, and so "the Spirit of Christ is in them".

We read of the Spirit and Christ Jesus being the same here

Romans 8:2

For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death." Is the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus the person of the Holy Ghost here?

Philippians 1:19

For I know that this shall turn to my salvation through your prayer, and the supply of the Spirit of Jesus Christ,"Do you say here that the Spirit of Jesus Christ is the person of the Holy Ghost? If so,why didn't Paul say the Holy Ghost here?

We read of "the Spirit of Christ" and "Christ" and also of "the Holy Ghost" differentiated in distinction in texts beside eachother

"11 Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow. 12 Unto whom it was revealed, that not unto themselves, but unto us they did minister the things, which are now reported unto you by them that have preached the gospel unto you with the Holy Ghost sent down from heaven; which things the angels desire to look into."(Ephesians 3:11,12 KJV)


Here, in the same chapter 3 vs's 11 we see Paul uses the expression "Spirit of Christ " and "Christ", and then in the very next verse he speaks of the "Holy Ghost" This is for a reason. Paul did not say that the "Spirit of Christ" was the "Holy Ghost" here or he could have used the same words. But he makes a distinction. This is part of the issue that we have been looking at.


And again if any man from Adam to the present have not the Spirit of Christ he is none of his.

Romans 8:9
"But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his."
This "any man" means just what it says, "any man" this would include all mankind from Adam until to day. There is no way around this truth here, that OT saints and those today have the Spirit of Christ in them. God dwells in all believers and works in all through Jesus Christ.

The Spirit of God dwelt in all OT saints as scripture can show. This was before the Holy Ghost was given.
 
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LoveofTruth

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No, Paul does not connect Christ to Deut 30. Only you do that. And I have already explained your error in doing so.
He clearly does and it is plain to see to the unbiased reader

"6 But the righteousness which is of faith speaketh on this wise, Say not in thine heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ down from above:) 7 Or, Who shall descend into the deep? (that is, to bring up Christ again from the dead.) 8 But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart..."

You cannot agree to this I believe, even if you see it because it would shatter your entire argument. Though that should not matter we are not here to just win an argument. These issues affect many aspects of the christian walk and life and understanding.But if you saw that Christ was speaking in them the OT and his word in them was nigh or close unto them. This would mean that this was not speaking of the Holy Ghost, (even though the Holy Ghost was working in the OT) but of the Spirit Christ in them, the mystery that hath been hid from ages. And so the entire discussion would turn on this.

But I showed you clearly that this is what Paul is showing.
 
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LoveofTruth

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No, the 2nd Person came in the flesh, not the 3rd. What a stupid question.
No it wasn't a stupid question. You are implying that the Spirit of Christ is the Holy Ghost. But in scripture Jesus Christ is in believers and he is in them by his Spirit. And so the Spirit of Jesus Christ is in them. The word Christ is always associated with Jesus Christ as I can see and not specifically to the Holy Ghost..

"Christ in you", the Spirit of Christ, is the Holy Spirit. As I have shown.

I was speaking of this here

"LoveofTruth said:

And do you say that 2 Cor 13:5 should not refer to Jesus Christ in us and instead the Holy Ghost in us these sections?"


and you said

""Christ in you", the Spirit of Christ, is the Holy Spirit. As I have shown"

Interesting that in that section it did not say any of the words you used. It says

2 Corinthians 13:5
"Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?


You say this reference to Jesus Christ is in you" is to the Holy Ghost? This is not what Paul said here. Obviously Jesus Christ in believers is in then in Spirit and so the Spirit of Jesus Christ is in them. This word "Christ" here identifies with Jesus Christ the Son of God, not the Holy Ghost here. There is a reason for Paul's wording in every place and he is very specific in his wording as led by the Spirit.is the Holy Ghost.

You simply ignored my question using this verse and said "Christ in you, the Spirit of Christ, is the Holy Spirit". But this verse shows who Christ is and the Spirit of Christ and that is Jesus Christ, not the Holy Ghost here.

All three members of the Godhead are in believers, the Father the Son and the Holy Ghost. Each one is referenced in specific verses and their work.

You seem to have trouble with this verse. It clearly identifies who "Christ" is as "Jesus Christ". Jesus is the Christ as scripture shows and so if Christ is in a believer this is identified as Jesus Christ in them. And we know that Jesus Christ is in heaven in a body and so when we say Jesus Christ is in us, this is in Spirit, but not specifically referring to the Holy Ghost.

So if someone was to ask you "is Jesus Christ in you"?, using this verse (2 Cor 13:5 KJV) as the test. What would you say? would you say "no the Holy Ghost is in me, Paul meant the Holy Ghost instead of saying Jesus Christ is in you?."
 
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LoveofTruth

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No, Christ and the Holy Spirit are separate persons in the Godhead. To say otherwise is Oneness.

What do you mean by "separate" persons.

Explain how are they "separate" and what that means. Also explain the word "persons", what is that, how are they separate persons? is person Spirit? Are you implying that they are separate persons and not One?


Separate - meaning- not joined or touching physically, cause to move or be apart, become detached or disconnected, divide or cause to divide into constituent or distinct elements.
 
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LoveofTruth

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No, God is not Spirit, and certainly not Spirits. The word is spirit (lower case, singular).

John 4:24 "God is spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth.”"
You correction here,

John 4:24 (KJV)
"God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth."


1 Corinthians 7:40 (KJV)
"But she is happier if she so abide, after my judgment: and I think also that I have the Spirit of God."
 
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