The Bible's Laws on Divorce and Remarriage.

Strong in Him said:

I wouldn't assume anything.



Why should a woman have to remain legally married to an abusive/alcoholic man from who she is separated? Presumably you're saying that that was her one shot at love; too bad she got it wrong?

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It is interesting to note that "unfaithfulness" is defined by Pharisaical folk as limited to sexual immorality. But "unfaithfulness" could mean a whole range of actions that show that a spouse is not faithful to his or her marriage. Desertion shows unfaithfulness, so does wife-beating, as well as running off with some other woman (or man!).

Faithfulness in marriage consists in loving each other as Christ loves them. It is living according to what is set out in 1 Corinthians 13. Departure from those principles can show unfaithfulness in the marriage, even before any separation occurs.

Faithfulness in marriage consists in a total, life-long commitment to the marriage, in the same way that faithfulness to Christ consists in a total, life-long commitment to Christ as Lord and Saviour.

Also, did you know that God is a divorced Person?? You didn't know that did you!
He divorced Himself from Israel because of its sinfulness and idolatry.
It just shows, He could never be a pastor of a Baptist church!!!

Oscarr said:

The verse also says that the deserted partner is "not under bondage". Some have added to what Paul says by saying that the deserted partner must remain single while the deserting spouse is still alive. But Paul never wrote that addition. That is just the personal opinion of those who are rigid in the religiousness about divorce and remarriage.

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And by that they reduce "not bound" to meaning nothing at all, when to anyone in a slave culture, "not bound" carries immense meaning.

As we see from the earlier advice to Christians married to Christians, Paul is quite aware of what Christ had taught about marriage. But Christ had only taught about believers married to believers. Christ never taught about believers married to pagans.

So Paul is giving instruction to those people based on his own Holy Spirit inspiration rather than being able to quote Jesus directly.

We know from Jesus' teaching that even though a woman has been divorced unjustly, the entire situation is under a cloud of sin, with the unjust spouse having caused the victimized spouse to sin (yeah, Jesus' moral absolute is that the marriage remain firm and wholesome, so a broken marriage and its aftermath puts everyone under the cloud of sin).

I believe that when Paul says "not under bondage" it means just that. The deserted spouse is totally free to live how he or she wants and to remarry if he or she wishes, without restriction or condemnation. This means that a deserted spouse can remarry without being accused of adultery or any other sin.

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Paul explains a few verses later that by "bound" he means "unable to remarry," so when he says "not bound" he means able to remarry.

But Paul might mean even more than that. When the divorce put everyone involved under a cloud of sin, Paul may be saying that the unjustly divorced spouse is not under that bondage either, because Jesus knows who caused the sin to occur.

RDKirk said:

Paul explains a few verses later that by "bound" he means "unable to remarry," so when he says "not bound" he means able to remarry.

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That's the common sense meaning if we don't overlay it with a lot of Pharisaical religious claptrap!

Dave L said:

We need to go by what the bible says and interpret our experience according to that. I experience daily what I'm talking about. As Paul says in 2 Timothy 4:5 to make full proof of our ministry.

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So, you sinned again after being born again. John says that can’t happen. But it always does. So we have to discount John. And we do.

When Jesus spoke about divorce and remarriage, He was using it as just an example to show how God's standards of righteousness are even greater than the Law the Pharisees were so rigid in their compliance. He was revealing their hypocrisy in their strict observance to the Law, but were not prepared to believe in the actual Messiah who was standing right in front of them! The comment about divorce and remarriage was just an illustration and He was not intending to build a doctrine on it.

I think that to build an important doctrine that affects many Christians who have the unfortunate experience of being divorced through no fault of their own, is the height of religious stupidity and lack of basic compassion. To force that rule on folk and to condemn them violates every other promise concerning the mercy and grace of God and the fact that we are saved by grace through faith, not of ourselves, but through the gift that God has given us. Those who impose Pharisaical rules on divorced and remarried folk don't know God, because God is love, and their imposition of the rule does not reflect the love and grace of God in any way at all. I think those people have no knowledge of what spirit they are of, because it is certainly not the spirit of Christ!

Jason0047 said:

Divorce and remarriage usually go hand in hand. Besides, I am the creator of the thread. I am including that as part of the discussion. You can talk about that here because they are so closely related. It surely is related in the words of Jesus when he talks about divorce, as well. So feel free to talk about that here. I would not consider that to be off topic.

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the op is the authority. being the creator doesn't give you license to digress the op, even if it doesn't match whatever your agenda was. be more clear next time.

Vicomte13 said:

They commit it again nevertheless. They never COMPLETELY overcome it. Any Christian who tells you he never sinned again after conversion is a liar. The Bible says Christians don't, but they do, and we all know it. So, the Bible is wrong on that point. OR we're all damned, so why bother with it?

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I think where we get it wrong is in thinking sinlessness becomes a human attribute, it doesn't, the Reformers knew this and championed the doctrine of imputed righteousness, that the righteousness we have is by faith in Christ, and He is literally all of our righteousness, and nothing one way or the other can change His righteousness. Our duty then is to repent and repent some more and this is the way of sinners dependent upon a righteous Savior, and the Saints continue in this holy repentance which brings us nearer to God. So while you are correct about Christians without sin, at the same time the Bible is not wrong on that point. God bless you for the brutal honesty, it's good to see at times, and for honest self-evaluation, kind of reminds me of many communion messages, at least the self-evaluation part about not partaking unworthily.

DamianWarS said:

the op is the authority. being the creator doesn't give you license to digress the op, even if it doesn't match whatever your agenda was. be more clear next time.

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The trouble with modern-day Pharisees is that they are the same as the Pharisees of Jesus' time. They will adamantly retain their views even when presented with substantive evidence to the contrary. When every original point has been successfully refuted, they will go to ridiculous lengths to justify their prejudiced stance.

Jason0047 said:

Sometimes I may not like what God's Word says, but I would rather be obedient to His Word than to have to face God being upset with me at the Judgment. I would rather play it safe and teach only what His Word says.

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I hope you are not in a position to advise women who have a husband who is violent to her or her children. These are very serious matters and not something to show your Word-following chops on at the expense of people's lives.

Jason0047 said:

Thank you. I will rejoice in God my Savior for your saying that.

Anyways, may the Lord's goodness be upon you in all things.

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Great. I appreciate that. He tries to bless me, but it sometimes is a challenging mission for Him!

I respect your position in the matter because you have the right to believe what you feel is correct according to Scripture.

That is why I express my disagreement in a way that kicks the ball and not the player.

One day, and I guess it will be sooner for me than for you, we will all stand before the Lord in our white robes giving Him the worship and praise He richly deserves for saving us by His mercy and grace!

Christie insb said:

I hope you are not in a position to advise women who have a husband who is violent to her or her children. These are very serious matters and not something to show your Word-following chops on at the expense of people's lives.

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Kick the ball and not the player.

Oscarr said:

Kick the ball and not the player.

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Okay I know you are right. It actually frightens me though when people give this kind of advice. Real people have been really hurt by trying tofollow this kind of advice. Really. Not to mention the kids and their emotional and legal issues. The Church has ignored abuse for far too long.

Christie insb said:

Okay I know you are right. It actually frightens me though when people give this kind of advice. Real people have been really hurt by trying to follow this kind of advice. Really. Not to mention the kids and their emotional and legal issues. The Church has ignored abuse for far too long.

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I totally agree. I left the Pentecostal church because when I was deserted by my first wife, many whom I thought were friends didn't want to know me, and while I was still experiencing grief, an elder told me I could never be married again. I felt that comment was very unkind and came from a modern day Pharisee who had come from a very strict exclusive type church before joining the Pentecostal church. Trouble is that he brought his Pharisaical beliefs with him. Caused hurt and trouble among those who did not come up to his standards.

Some people should never be counsellors and be let loose on unsuspecting, vulnerable people. Too many church counsellors are not professionally trained and think just because they know a few Scriptures and possibly have a degree in theology they can effectively and compassionately counsel people. The Pentecostal church is rife with them, because many there are opposed to any type of academic training.

But professionally trained pastoral care counsellors would always treat vulnerable people with kindness, gentleness, compassion and understanding. And you will never encounter an appropriately trained pastoral counsellor giving the Pharisaical comments I have seen on this forum.

People can believe what they like, but there are some fundamentalist beliefs that disqualify a person from being any sort of pastoral counsellor.

Vicomte13 said:

All Christians, without exception (unless they die immediately after their conversion) continue to sin after they believe in Christ. Any Christian who says he has not sinned after his conversion is a liar, and lying is on both lists of deadly sins.

So, what's the point in asserting a point that the Bible says, yes, but that not one human being in two thousand years has ever done, or will ever do. The only way to remain sinless after conversion is to go out and die.

Maybe somebody can manage it for a day, two, three, a week. Longer that that? Pfffft.
It never happened.

If anybody on this thread, including you, would like to lie before God and man and say that you have not sinned in all of the five or ten or whatever years since you converted to Christianity, go ahead. There is not one other person reading who will believe you. Because "The Bible says..." many may not come out and call you a liar out loud (I will), but every single person will know you are.

That's the problem. The Bible has this standard in it that it is impossible for human beings to meet. So when you raise it as though it were, you are essentially the Emperor in his new clothes...which are not real and everybody knows it.

What the Bible says on that subject is flat out not true. It's not doable. It is impossible for human beings to stop sinning even after conversion, so if that means that the Bible says that nobody is saved - and that IS what the text you are quoting says - then nobody is saved and we may as well all damn God, damn Christ and do as we please, because God's standard is brutal and impossible. Like telling a man to breathe water, when we can't.

If THAT is REALLY what God demands of us, then he is utterly useless to us, and evil, and we're all dead anyway, so we may as well stop pretending.

This is exactly the problem with the divorce law. Jesus really did say that to remarry after divorce is adultery. And when that is enforced as a law, as the Catholic Church has, it is essentially a condemnation of the unlucky to a lifetime of masturbation - which is just as deadly a sin as adultery. So the effect of what Jesus says, if taken literally and applied by a law, is that both parties in a divorce are damned to hell and they may as well walk away from God and do as they please.

And you know what? That is EXACTLY WHAT HAPPENED in the Catholic Church. The Anglican Communion exists BECAUSE the Catholic Church would not grant a king a divorce (note, please,, they granted OTHER kings divorces, claiming the situation was different, but not him). So he left, took the Church of his land with him, and chopped off the heads of the old Church's bishops for good measure, for treason.

In the 21st Century, nobody chops off heads. They just leave the Church behind, because no, people who are unlucky in marriage are simply NOT going to give up sex for the rest of their lives, and no, they are not going to give up the hope of happily pairing off either. And if Jesus says they must, they will tell Jesus to pound sand. Regretfully, perhaps, but really.

That is the problem with the whole line of argument. People CANNOT, and WILL NOT give up sex for life because they divorced a crappy spouse, just exactly as Christians CANNOT, and DO NOT cease all sinning when they become Christians.

Any Christian who tells you he never sinned again after conversion is a damned liar. WE ALL KNOW THAT.
Stop pretending. It kills the Church.

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My compliments on a candid and insightful post, well said. I guess your dealing with Jason, I personally put him on ignore but a friend told me I had to see this, it was delightful. Of course we are sinners in need of Christ, otherwise Jesus died for nothing. God know we are going to come to him a basket case but God alone knows how to take us from our wretched misery and learn to worship and serve a loving and gracious God, who in spite of our longstanding stubbornness, gives us opportunity to repent and learn the miracle of regeneration on a personal level.

God bless you and keep you and make his face to shine upon you. Your a sinner and you know it? Now that's a refreshing change from the beating around the bush we see so much of around here.

Grace and peace,
Mark

Jason0047 said:

You need to read everything I write and not assume the wrong thing. Nowhere am I suggesting that a spouse stay in an abusive relationship. I was suggestion a separation of living far away. I was saying that if they flee and do not divorce and they seek God's help, and yet they are still persecuted for their faith by standing by what they believe to be right in the Word of God on marriage and divorce, they are not in the wrong.

Do you believe in using guns to protect yourself?
This is kind of like what I am talking about here.
Many Christians today believe in self defense or using guns.
This relates to my point that we are to trust God's Word by faith in what it says even if we might be persecuted or attacked for obeying His Word. This does not mean we are seeking to run into harm's way. No, no. Most certainly not. What I am saying is that we as believers need to stay true to God's Word no matter the cost. Sure, we should be as innocent as doves and as wise as serpents, and not try to put ourselves in any harm's way. But if God wants to protect us, He can certainly most do that. If God is calling us to be persecuted, there is not much we can do to escape that if that His will. The point here is that we as believers have to walk by faith and not by sight. Loving God and our neighbor is our top priority in this life. We do not always do what the world does. Being a Christian does not mean we will have our best life now always. We are bought and paid for with a price.

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I have been through a divorce where my wife deserted me. I held out for reconciliation for a long while until she said adamantly that there was no hope of reconciliation because there was nothing more between us. She then went to a Presbyterian counsellor who did not believe in the Resurrection, virgin birth, or that God was a real Person. I don't think that helped. Then once she engaged a lawyer and contacted social services, she changed her story to deflect the truth that she walked out of our marriage because she just didn't want to be married to me any longer.

The grief that I experienced and the seven years of storm and stress after that I wouldn't wish on my worst enemy. I became more opposed to divorce than I ever was.

Then I found out after some years that she had met someone else and had married again. At the end of the seven years, I met my present wife, a widow, and we have been married for 28 great years now.

I believe that although I failed a number of times in relationships because I tried to meet my need for a new partner in my own way, and God had to bail me out by telling me, "This is not the woman for you", and at one stage telling me straight that if I continued in a certain relationship He would no longer be with me, but if I moved to a new city to do my university degree where I knew no one, He would be waiting there for me. The next day I was on my way, and He was there waiting for me.

I believe that when I told God I was giving up on trying to find another relationship, three months later I met my present wife and He said, "She's the one for you." I realised later that this was after my first wife had married again. The fact that she had married again, released me from any bondage to that first marriage and free to remarry.

My second marriage restored to me double everything I lost through my divorce, and my domestic life and my life in the Lord has been much more blessed. I married a widow, therefore I did not cause anyone to commit adultery by marrying me.

i believe that through the remarriage of my wife, this satisfied the unfaithfulness reason for acceptable divorce and the freedom to remarry.

It is interesting that I have a friend who walked out of her marriage in a way similar to what my first wife did to me. She went through severe guilt and ran away from God. After some time, she had a dream or vision, I don't know what, of God running after her crying, "Let me forgive you! Let me forgive you!" That changed my whole attitude and I realised that if God was forgiving her then He had forgiven my first wife and I had no reason to be bitter over her. That was God's way of showing me that He had forgiven her and that I should pray for her every time I thought of her. I have had dreams about her, and these have been signals that I should pray for her right away. I'm sure that God had a particular reason why I needed to pray for her right after that dream.

Everytime I have received condemnation "bombs" about my divorce and remarriage, I have gone to God about it, and have been deluged with Scriptures about His grace and mercy and promises that no matter what has happened to me, He is still with me and loves me. He also reminded me about the miraculous times He turned me back to Him during my storm and stress years when I had rejected my previous mentors and decided to go it alone and live the life of my own choosing. He turned me around, put me right toward sanctified conduct, and then brought me back into good Christian fellowship, and a new wife who brought further blessing into my life.

If I was counselling a couple having marriage problems I would strongly encourage them to have faith and trust in God that He will see them through to stability and blessing if they "hung in there" through the difficult times, believed in each other and the Lord, and faced their problems together instead of putting the knife into each other.

I believe that if my first wife had sought to trust God and worked with me to get through the difficult times instead of putting the knife into me and blaming me or the marriage for the problems, then we would still be married today.