Government Tells Christian Adoption Agency: Violate Your Beliefs or Stop Helping Kids

Yarddog · Dec 19, 2018

redleghunter said:
These smaller faith based or religious based organizations usually don't have kids sitting in a orphanage waiting for adoption.

According to the New Hope suit, they get plenty and average 8-12 adoptions a year from that site. Evidently they feel they are providing enough. They also say that birth parents play a big part of who gets their child. With that in mind, it presents a good legal challenge against the state.

If an LGBT organization stood up an adoption service and only pd in gay homes, the question is would the state intervene. I say no way.

Very doubtful.

Yarddog · Dec 19, 2018

HannahT said:
I'm not sure people in the position of let's say an unplanned pregnancy think about abortion due to come agency staying open or not even enters their minds. lol! It's a very personal decision, and you have many other important things to think about.

According to New Hope, it seems they do. Adoption is a small part of what they do. Providing help and counseling for expectant parents is what they. They come to New Hope and New Hope helps provide them with what they need, regardless of who they are.

If adoption is what the birth parents want, New Hope includes them in on the process so they are comfortable with whomever adopts their child.

HannahT · Dec 19, 2018

Yarddog said:
According to New Hope, it seems they do. Adoption is a small part of what they do. Providing help and counseling for expectant parents is what they. They come to New Hope and New Hope helps provide them with what they need, regardless of who they are.

If adoption is what the birth parents want, New Hope includes them in on the process so they are comfortable with whomever adopts their child.

That shows they are indeed a special organization. I'm glad their area has such a caring place for parents.

Yet, I have experienced many young adults with unplanned pregnancies - and I have not come across one that was weighting the agency of adoption versus abortion. It more more cut and dry - adoption, abortion, or keep the child. The agency doesn't enter the equation, but more pressing things in their life. It could be in the case of New Hope being in their area they are allowed that luxury, which is awesome!

I was more speaking generally.

redleghunter · Dec 19, 2018

HannahT said:
That shows they are indeed a special organization. I'm glad their area has such a caring place for parents.

Yet, I have experienced many young adults with unplanned pregnancies - and I have not come across one that was weighting the agency of adoption versus abortion. It more more cut and dry - adoption, abortion, or keep the child. The agency doesn't enter the equation, but more pressing things in their life. It could be in the case of New Hope being in their area they are allowed that luxury, which is awesome!

I was more speaking generally.

New Hope is like many other Christian run local ministries. In my community (belt buckle of the Bible Belt) my church is in partnership with several others running a 24/7 pregnancy crisis center for counseling pregnant women. The ministry is a lot like New Hope as it covers all aspects of keeping, adoption, foster care and after birth care for the struggling single mom or couple. The pastors also offer counseling and pastoral care for women who grieve over their abortion and if they don't have a church yet provide counseling for mothers and couples grieving a miscarriage.

We are a relatively small church but when we join in partnership with other local churches amazing things can happen.

Sparagmos · Dec 19, 2018

Shiloh Raven said:
We are allowed to discuss homosexuality from a political, legal, historical, and civil rights point of view. I'm personally glad to see discrimination against same-sex couples (and other LGBT) being challenged by authority like it is in this news story. I'm also glad that gay rights and support for gay rights has expanded so much in the last two decades. I honestly think it's pathetic that it's taken so long in America, when this country was supposed founded upon freedom, liberty and justice for all.

Thanks for the clarification. So I can say this is a civil right, but I can’t try to back it up with scripture etc.?

Sparagmos · Dec 19, 2018

mark kennedy said:
Women's Suffrage resulted in a Constitutional Amendment, the Blacks in this country saw not one but two Constitutional amendments ratified. The Gay rights agenda had a split decision, 5-4, in a narrow majority decide what was Constitutional in this case. That's not progress, that's the creative manipulation of Constitutional Amendments that have nothing to do with sexual orientation and by the way, there is always the first amendment that should cover religious and moral objections to same sex marriage.

The pendulum will swing, it always does, especially when it's based on a Judicial star chamber that wants to control society rather then protecting the rights of citizens to make up their own mind whether or not they want to retain the traditional definition of marriage.

I’m not judging the progress of human rights and equal treatment solely by laws on the books or Supreme Court decisions. The treatment of women has greatly improved in my lifetime, and the treatment of gay people has improved vastly as well. When did the pendulum swing back on racial or gender equality?

Sparagmos · Dec 19, 2018

redleghunter said:
These smaller faith based or religious based organizations usually don't have kids sitting in a orphanage waiting for adoption. The state and other private organizations have adoption services which provide the same service.

This is just another bullying tactic like the ridiculous cake baking controversies. The service is offered elsewhere go there. Even the legal heavyweights your Catholic Charities put forth against state laws and local ordinances denying free exercise of religion did not get the job done.

If an LGBT organization stood up an adoption service and only placed in gay homes, the question is would the state intervene. I say no way.

Would you be OK with a Muslim adoption agency refusing to place babies in Christian homes? Or in biracial homes?

Shiloh Raven · Dec 19, 2018

Sparagmos said:
Thanks for the clarification. So I can say this is a civil right, but I can’t try to back it up with scripture etc.?

That's correct. Homosexuality may not be promoted. More detail about this rule is found under Topics Requiring Special Consideration in the Terms of Service and Christian Forum Rules | Christian Forums.

devin553344 · Dec 19, 2018

redleghunter said:
Government Tells Christian Adoption Agency: Violate Your Beliefs or Stop Helping Kids

State officials have issued New Hope Family Services in Syracuse, New York, an ultimatum: Violate your religious beliefs, or stop serving kids in need.

Unless the faith-based adoption provider stops placing children only in homes that have a married mother and father, the state has threatened to stop its adoption services immediately.

New Hope has placed over 1,000 children in homes since opening its doors in 1965. In fact, the New York State Office of Children and Family Services congratulated New Hope for “a number of strengths in providing adoption services within the community.”

Unfortunately, the same agency that once praised New Hope Family Services for its work is now threatening to effectively shut it down.

What is so shocking about what is happening to New Hope is that there have been no complaints to explain this sudden change. It seems that the government has no other reason to antagonize the agency besides a difference of opinion about marriage.

What is so shocking about what is happening to New Hope is that there have been no complaints to explain this sudden change. It seems that the government has no other reason to antagonize the agency besides a difference of opinion about marriage.

More at link:

https://www.lifenews.com/2018/12/18...cy-violate-your-beliefs-or-stop-helping-kids/

Sounds about right to me. Homosexuality is the end of Christianity. They cannot truly co-exist.

True Christianity is now becoming illegal.

The OT is clear on gay rights: Leviticus 20:13-15 . They had about the same rights as a murderer.

Jesus taught cast not the first stone: John 8:7

So what do you do? I've given some thought to homosexuality and it's just too creepy to me. I guess I just don't understand it the same way gay people do. And I'm thankful really.

devin553344 · Dec 19, 2018

Shiloh Raven said:
We are allowed to discuss homosexuality from a political, legal, historical, and civil rights point of view. I'm personally glad to see discrimination against same-sex couples (and other LGBT) being challenged by authority like it is in this news story. I'm also glad that gay rights and support for gay rights has expanded so much in the last two decades. I honestly think it's pathetic that it's taken so long in America, when this country was supposed founded upon freedom, liberty and justice for all.

"In God we Trust"?

mark kennedy · Dec 19, 2018

Sparagmos said:
I’m not judging the progress of human rights and equal treatment solely by laws on the books or Supreme Court decisions. The treatment of women has greatly improved in my lifetime, and the treatment of gay people has improved vastly as well. When did the pendulum swing back on racial or gender equality?

Your equivocating racial and gender issues with sexual orientation. Womwn worked hard and built a consensus, blacks suffered greatly and became a grass roits movement, voth did manage to get Constitional amendments ratified. Do you have any isea how hard that is? Gays won a split decision, that is not the same thing. Now we are talking about wedding cakes and flowers, not lunchings and the right to vote. It's shameful to equate the two.

Hank77 · Dec 19, 2018

Sparagmos said:
I just meant that the government is enforcing anti-discrimination laws. The government doesn’t have an opinion, it has laws. The law do reflect people’s opinion.

Remember the argument about the cake baker in Colorado? People said that because he was a for profit business, who opened his door to the public he must make a wedding cake for a gay couple.

New Hope is a non-profit, private organization just like a church is and they take no funds from any government agency just like a church doesn't.
The government cannot tell a church who they will serve, should they be able to tell this organization who they will serve?

Anand Prabhu Antony · Dec 19, 2018

Sparagmos said:
Would you be OK with a Muslim adoption agency refusing to place babies in Christian homes? Or in biracial homes?

What if that "New Hope" agency follows the motto or intention: In GOD we trust"?

redleghunter · Dec 19, 2018

Sparagmos said:
So I can say this is a civil right

I believe this is correct.

Sparagmos said:
but I can’t try to back it up with scripture etc.?

If an OP is worded carefully I believe this could be discussed on a theology thread. But would ask the mods first and look at the rules in those forums.

For example, I think you could say "fill in the blank church" changed their bylaws or catechism to perform same sex "marriage" ceremonies.

But again, I would check the various subforum rules first.

Hank77 · Dec 19, 2018

Anand Prabhu Antony said:
What if that "New Hope" agency follows the motto or intention: In GOD we trust"?

Trusting in God means that one actually obeys what God has taught.

Anand Prabhu Antony · Dec 19, 2018

Hank77 said:
Trusting in God means that one actually obeys what God has taught.

Super

Shiloh Raven · Dec 19, 2018

Sparagmos said:
Would you be OK with a Muslim adoption agency refusing to place babies in Christian homes? Or in biracial homes?

I know quite a few conservative Christians who would be whining and wailing about Christians being persecuted if Muslims did that. It's better if I don't comment on the biracial part concerning a lot of the conservative Christians I've met over the course of my lifetime. I'll leave that one alone.

Anand Prabhu Antony · Dec 19, 2018

Shiloh Raven said:
I know quite a few conservative Christians who would be whining and wailing about Christians being persecuted if Muslims did that. It's better if I don't comment on the biracial part concerning a lot of the conservative Christians I've met over the course of my lifetime. I'll leave that one alone.

Even if a muslim adoption agency follow like the "New Hope" especially for not supporting LGBT who will be whining and wailing?

redleghunter · Dec 19, 2018

Sparagmos said:
Would you be OK with a Muslim adoption agency refusing to place babies in Christian homes?

They already exist through American Adoptions as with targeting other religions and faith groups:

American Adoptions - Find Muslim Couples Who Want to Adopt a Baby

Why would a pregnant women search for a Muslim couple who wants to adopt a baby?
Whether you are a Muslim yourself or simply drawn to the religion, there are many positive aspects that come with placing your child with a Muslim couple who wants to adopt a baby. You might specifically search for Muslim parents who want to adopt because you want your baby raised with the following beliefs:

- Muslims believe in one God. Muslims believe that there is one God (Allah) and that He alone should be served and worshipped.
- Muslims believe the Quran is Allah’s final revelation to Prophet Muhammad. They believe it was revealed to the prophet through the angel Gabriel over a period of approximately 23 years.
- Muslims believe in a day of judgment. On one appointed day, life will come to an end and everyone will be raised from the dead. Each individual will be judged and either rewarded in Heaven or punished in Hell, based on whether or not they were faithful and performed good deeds.
- Muslims believe in destiny and the divine. Allah has a plan and everything happens by His will. This does not, however, mean Muslims don’t believe in free will and choice; Allah simply knows what our choices will be before we make them.
Muslims believe in the five pillars of Islam. These are the pillars by which they worship: the Declaration of Faith, daily prayer, Zakah (a type of charity), the fast of Ramadan, and the Hajj pilgrimage to Mecca in present-day Saudi Arabia.

If it’s important to you to find a Muslim couple who wants to adopt a baby, this is absolutely possible with American Adoptions. By using this tool on our website, you can search through profiles of active families based on religion.

Maybe call them and ask how many gay Muslim homes they have placed children. Don't waste your time.

And there seems to be a Muslim adoption agency which finds Muslim parents in the US to adopt Pakistani orphans:

Get an Inside Look at the First Muslim Adoption Agency in the U.S.

Note New Hope is not just placing kids in Christian only homes and they ask the birth mother or parents for their input.

Sparagmos said:
Or in biracial homes?

Huh?

Hank77 · Dec 19, 2018

Shiloh Raven said:
I know quite a few conservative Christians who would be whining and wailing about Christians being persecuted if Muslims did that. It's better if I don't comment on the biracial part concerning a lot of the conservative Christians I've met over the course of my lifetime. I'll leave that one alone.

How would you feel about a white Christian couple adopting a Native American child?

Government Tells Christian Adoption Agency: Violate Your Beliefs or Stop Helping Kids

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