Christs second coming

shilohsfoal · Dec 17, 2018

Matthew 10:23 When they persecute you in one town, flee to the next. Truly I tell you, you will not reach all the towns of Israel before the Son of Man comes.

There seems to be a few on this board who believe Christ has come.
Can anyone provide an eye witness account of this event?
It does not appear biblical for there are no eye witness accounts in the bible.

Revelation 1:7 Behold, He is coming with the clouds, and every eye will see Him--even those who pierced Him. And all the tribes of the earth will mourn because of Him. So shall it be! Amen.

ToServe · Dec 17, 2018

shilohsfoal said:
Matthew 10:23 When they persecute you in one town, flee to the next. Truly I tell you, you will not reach all the towns of Israel before the Son of Man comes.

There seems to be a few on this board who believe Christ has come.
Can anyone provide an eye witness account of this event?
It does not appear biblical for there are no eye witness accounts in the bible.

Revelation 1:7 Behold, He is coming with the clouds, and every eye will see Him--even those who pierced Him. And all the tribes of the earth will mourn because of Him. So shall it be! Amen.

Lack of eye witness account is the least of the problems that the 70AD narrative has.

JohnB445 · Dec 17, 2018

He hasn't come yet.

John Bowen · Dec 17, 2018

From my beliefs Jesus never left us "And surely I'am with you always " Matt 28:20 The Christ comes with the clouds .Clouds are high up . The way you tell people 2000 yrs ago who don't have concept yet of higher consciousness . Christ is returning in millions and millions of people's hearts where he told us the kingdom of God is. People who have internalized Jesus's words and raised their conscious by them. Merry Christmas

thesunisout · Dec 17, 2018

shilohsfoal said:
Matthew 10:23 When they persecute you in one town, flee to the next. Truly I tell you, you will not reach all the towns of Israel before the Son of Man comes.

There seems to be a few on this board who believe Christ has come.
Can anyone provide an eye witness account of this event?
It does not appear biblical for there are no eye witness accounts in the bible.

Revelation 1:7 Behold, He is coming with the clouds, and every eye will see Him--even those who pierced Him. And all the tribes of the earth will mourn because of Him. So shall it be! Amen.

Christ is coming in the future. How do we know this? Because He is coming after the abomination of desolation:

2 Thessalonians 2:3-4

3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

For that to happen, the third temple must be built. Because the Jews have been regathered by God back to Israel, the third temple can now be built paving the way for the fulfillment of this prophecy.

These are the current events of end times prophecy, and Israel and Jerusalem are central in understanding end times events. The prophetic significance of Israel becoming a nation again cannot be overstated. The events simply cannot occur if Israel were not to be a nation in the end times. God of course engineered these events which tend to convince me that major fulfillment of end times prophecy could potentially occur. We may be the generation described in 2 Timothy 3:1-5

3 This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come.

2 For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy,

3 Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good,

4 Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;

5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.

The Antichrist has not yet appeared on the world stage but he will arrive one day and probably during a moment of world crisis. He solves a problem, perhaps bringing peace to the middle east. This is of course a false peace which deceives and deludes the world into trusting this man.

He will also have a man on his side who can do miracles:

Revelation 13:11-17

11 And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon.

12 And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed.

13 And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men,

14 And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.

15 And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.

16 And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:

17 And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.

This man is called the false prophet. A literal miracle worker who will deceive the whole Earth into worshiping the Antichrist. He will also institute control over the financial system of the world by forcing all human beings to take the mark of the beast.

This is all yet in the future. Biblical prophecy is coming true before our eyes because these are the last days. We are in the last part of the last days, I believe, and we may live to see the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

ewq1938 · Dec 17, 2018

shilohsfoal said:
Matthew 10:23 When they persecute you in one town, flee to the next. Truly I tell you, you will not reach all the towns of Israel before the Son of Man comes.

Clearly that isn't regarding the second coming since we still wait for it. He would leave them for 3 days then come to them again before bodily ascending into heaven. The second coming would be when he leaves heaven and returns to the Earth to reign over all kingdoms and peoples.

shilohsfoal · Dec 18, 2018

ewq1938 said:
Clearly that isn't regarding the second coming since we still wait for it. He would leave them for 3 days then come to them again before bodily ascending into heaven. The second coming would be when he leaves heaven and returns to the Earth to reign over all kingdoms and peoples.

Ohhh,so you believe this took place in three days.

Matthew 10:21 Brother will betray brother to death, and a father his child; children will rise against their parents and have them put to death.
Matthew 10:22 You will be hated by everyone on account of My name, but the one who perseveres to the end will be saved.
Matthew 10:23 When they persecute you in one town, flee to the next. Truly I tell you, you will not reach all the towns of Israel before the Son of Man comes.

Then can you provide a list of the names of the disciples that were betrayed by thier families and murderd during those three days?

BABerean2 · Dec 18, 2018

thesunisout said:
2 Thessalonians 2:3-4

3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

For that to happen, the third temple must be built. Because the Jews have been regathered by God back to Israel, the third temple can now be built paving the way for the fulfillment of this prophecy.

The construction of the third temple began during the first century, based on the scripture found below.
I am a part of the priesthood of that temple.
I have personally handled some of the stones in that temple.
I know where the "chief cornerstone" is now located.

1Pe 2:4 To whom coming, as unto a living stone, disallowed indeed of men, but chosen of God, and precious,
1Pe 2:5 Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ.
1Pe 2:6 Wherefore also it is contained in the scripture, Behold, I lay in Sion a chief corner stone, elect, precious: and he that believeth on him shall not be confounded.
1Pe 2:7 Unto you therefore which believe he is precious: but unto them which be disobedient, the stone which the builders disallowed, the same is made the head of the corner,
1Pe 2:8 And a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offence, even to them which stumble at the word, being disobedient: whereunto also they were appointed.
1Pe 2:9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:
1Pe 2:10 Which in time past were not a people, but are now the people of God: which had not obtained mercy, but now have obtained mercy.

If Christ rejecting Talmudic Judaism rebuilds a structure in modern Jerusalem, it will not be the temple of God, based on 1 John 2:22-23.

.

Acts2:38 · Dec 18, 2018

shilohsfoal said:
Matthew 10:23 When they persecute you in one town, flee to the next. Truly I tell you, you will not reach all the towns of Israel before the Son of Man comes.

There seems to be a few on this board who believe Christ has come.
Can anyone provide an eye witness account of this event?
It does not appear biblical for there are no eye witness accounts in the bible.

Revelation 1:7 Behold, He is coming with the clouds, and every eye will see Him--even those who pierced Him. And all the tribes of the earth will mourn because of Him. So shall it be! Amen.

You might find this interesting to read. Hope this helps. Link is cited after quoted section.

"Here are some significant points of comparison.

(1) Both texts warn of an impending time of terrible persecution for the Lord’s disciples (Mt. 10:16; Lk. 21:12).

(2) Both passages affirm that persecution will come from the Jewish leaders, who will beat the Lord’s followers, even in their synagogues (Mt. 10:17; Lk. 21:12).

(3) Both texts declare that the disciples would be brought before governors and kings for the Savior’s sake (Mt. 10:18; Lk. 21:12).

(4) Both sections affirm that the disciples’ courage under persecution would turn out to be a compelling “testimony” in the interests of others (Mt. 10:18; Lk. 21:13).

(5) Both contexts declare that when the disciples are called upon to defend their case, they are not to be anxious about responding. Indeed, they are not to even think about preparation, for the appropriate words will be given to them by the Holy Spirit at the needed hour (Mt. 10:19-20; Lk. 21:14-15).

(6) Both texts warn that the coming crisis will be so great that even family members will yield to the temptation of delivering their loved ones over to the persecuting authorities (Mt. 10:21; Lk. 21:16).

(7) Both segments announce that the disciples will be hated by all men on account of Jesus’ sake (Mt. 10:22; Lk. 21:17).

(8) Both passages encourage endurance or patience, for deliverance will come eventually; there will be a “saving” or “redemption” for the Lord’s faithful (Mt. 10:22; Lk. 21:19).

(9) Both sections encourage the disciples that when the danger becomes life-threatening, they are to take flight (Mt. 10:23; Lk. 21:21f).

With these obvious parallels in mind, we now are ready to focus upon Matthew’s mysterious phrase, “till the Son of man comes” (10:23).The conscientious student asks: “What is the most likely meaning of this obscure phrase?”Luke’s conclusion is perfectly clear (and quite analogous to Matthew 24); Jerusalem will be surrounded by armies (the Romans) that will desolate the once-sacred city.Many Hebrews will fall by the sword; others will be taken captive.The revered city will be trodden down permanently (Lk. 21:20ff).There is no question.The destruction of Jerusalem in A.D. 70 is clearly the focus of this text."

Quoted from this site:
What Is the Meaning of Matthew 10:23?

mkgal1 · Dec 18, 2018

shilohsfoal said:
Matthew 10:23 When they persecute you in one town, flee to the next. Truly I tell you, you will not reach all the towns of Israel before the Son of Man comes.

There seems to be a few on this board who believe Christ has come.
Can anyone provide an eye witness account of this event?
It does not appear biblical for there are no eye witness accounts in the bible.

Revelation 1:7 Behold, He is coming with the clouds, and every eye will see Him--even those who pierced Him. And all the tribes of the earth will mourn because of Him. So shall it be! Amen.

There are a couple of time stamps on both of these passages (and keep in mind who Jesus was speaking to in Matthew - He was giving THEM instructions: "when they persecute YOU in one town, flee to the next". "YOU will not reach all the towns of Israel before the Son of Man comes" and "even those who pierced Him" will 'see' Him). Why would Jesus give instructions like this to His disciples if this didn't apply directly to them?

This doesn't mean this is in reference to a physical "coming" - nor does it say anything about "second coming". In verses 23-26 of Matthew 24, Jesus seems to stress that his coming will not be a physical bodily appearance.

Matthew 24:23-28 ~ “Then if anyone tells you, ‘Look, here is the Messiah,’ or ‘There he is,’ don’t believe it. For false messiahs and false prophets will rise up and perform great signs and wonders so as to deceive, if possible, even God’s chosen ones. See, I have warned you about this ahead of time.

“So if someone tells you, ‘Look, the Messiah is out in the desert,’ don’t bother to go and look. Or, ‘Look, he is hiding here,’ don’t believe it! For as the lightning flashes in the east and shines to the west, so it will be when the Son of Man comes. Just as the gathering of vultures shows there is a carcass nearby, so these signs indicate that the end is near.

If someone says, "Here is Christ, or there," they were not to believe them. If someone said, "He is in the desert or he is in the secret chamber," they were not to believe them. Why? If His coming was to be physical and bodily, why would someone not be able to say, "He is over there?" They were not to believe that because His coming would not be physical and bodily and yet it would be plainly seen. How would they see His coming? They would see it in the judgement that was to fall upon Jerusalem (which is the "end" that's referred to - the end of the Temple system).

claninja · Dec 18, 2018

shilohsfoal said:
Matthew 10:23 When they persecute you in one town, flee to the next. Truly I tell you, you will not reach all the towns of Israel before the Son of Man comes.

There seems to be a few on this board who believe Christ has come.
Can anyone provide an eye witness account of this event?
It does not appear biblical for there are no eye witness accounts in the bible.

Revelation 1:7 Behold, He is coming with the clouds, and every eye will see Him--even those who pierced Him. And all the tribes of the earth will mourn because of Him. So shall it be! Amen.

In order to understand the coming of Christ, one must understand the language used to describe the coming of God in the OT.

Notice David describes God coming down from heaven on clouds to judge Saul and his enemies. this fulfilled in David's day
2 Samuel 22:1,10-11 David sang this song to the LORD on the day the LORD delivered him from the hand of all his enemies and from the hand of Saul. He parted the heavens and came down with dark clouds beneath His feet. He mounted a cherub and flew; He soaredb on the wings of the wind.

Notice Isaiah prophecies of God riding on clouds coming to Egypt for judgment. This was fulfilled when the king of Assyria invaded Egypt
Isaiah 19:1 This is an oracle concerning Egypt: Behold, the LORD rides on a swift cloud;
He is coming to Egypt. The idols of Egypt will tremble before Him, and the hearts of the Egyptians will melt within them.
Isaiah 20:4 so the king of Assyria will lead away the captives of Egypt and the exiles of Cush, young and old alike, naked and barefoot, with bared buttocks—to Egypt’s shame.

Notice Micah prophecies of God coming down to judge Samaria. This was accomplished by the Assyrians.
Micah 1:3,6 For behold, the LORD comes forth out of His dwelling place; He will come down and tread
on the high places of the earth. Therefore I will make Samaria a heap of rubble in the open field,
a planting area for a vineyard.

Notice when Jesus prophecies of the vineyard owner COMING to destroy the wicked tenants, the Pharisees realize Jesus is talking about them.
matthew 21:40-41,45 Therefore, when the owner of the vineyard COMES, what will he do to those tenants?” “He will bring those wretches to a wretched end,” they declared, “and will rent out the vineyard to other tenants who will give him his share of the fruit at harvest time.” When the chief priests and Pharisees heard Jesus’ parables, they knew He was speaking about them

In a parable about the same topic, God sends an army to destroy those originally invited to the wedding who killed his servants.
matthew 22:7 The king was enraged. He sent his troops to destroy those murderers and burn their city.

Thus we can confirm by Jesus' own words, in correlation with the OT language, that the coming of God would be associated with a foreign army coming to destroy Jerusalem.

In the instance of the olivet discourse and the coming of the son of man, the romans came and leveled Jerusalem, slaughtering those that rejected Christ

Luke 19:41-44 As Jesus approached Jerusalem and saw the city, He wept over it and said, “If only you had known on this day what would bring you peace! But now it is hidden from your eyes. For the days will come upon you when your enemies will barricade you and surround you and hem you in on every side. They will level you to the ground—you and the children within your walls. They will not leave one stone on another, because you did not recognize the time of your visitation from God.”

ewq1938 · Dec 18, 2018

shilohsfoal said:
Ohhh,so you believe this took place in three days.

Matthew 10:21 Brother will betray brother to death, and a father his child; children will rise against their parents and have them put to death.
Matthew 10:22 You will be hated by everyone on account of My name, but the one who perseveres to the end will be saved.
Matthew 10:23 When they persecute you in one town, flee to the next. Truly I tell you, you will not reach all the towns of Israel before the Son of Man comes.

Then can you provide a list of the names of the disciples that were betrayed by thier families and murderd during those three days?

How could I give such a list? I wasn't there and the bible doesn't speak of any of such names.

How about you tell us when the second coming happened since you are the one claiming verse 23 is the second coming. Don't need an exact day just a guess will be enough.

St_Worm2 · Dec 18, 2018

mkgal1 said:
If His coming was to be physical and bodily, why would someone not be able to say, "He is over there?"

Matthew 24:23-28 ~ “Then if anyone tells you, ‘Look, here is the Messiah,’ or ‘There he is,’ don’t believe it. For false messiahs and false prophets will rise up and perform great signs and wonders so as to deceive, if possible, even God’s chosen ones. See, I have warned you about this ahead of time.

“So if someone tells you, ‘Look, the Messiah is out in the desert,’ don’t bother to go and look. Or, ‘Look, he is hiding here,’ don’t believe it! For as the lightning flashes in the east and shines to the west, so it will be when the Son of Man comes. Just as the gathering of vultures shows there is a carcass nearby, so these signs indicate that the end is near.

Hi mkgal1, I have a bit of a different take on Matthew 24 than you do. In this chapter, Jesus warns those He is speaking to directly (as well all of us today, of course) about the future rise of both, "false prophets" and "false Christs*", who will appear on the scene claiming that He has returned and/or claiming to be Him, and they will also deceive many with what appear to be great signs and wonders.

*(David Koresh and Jim Jones both come to mind. However, here is a more thorough list of the many who have claimed to be Jesus just over the last 300-400 years: List of people claimed to be Jesus - Wikipedia)

The reason why someone will "not be able to say, He is over there" (and have the saints believe them) is because EVERYONE will know that He has returned at the same time (because the return of Jesus will be like lightning flashing from the east to the west in the sky, IOW, everybody will know He has returned w/o needing to be told about it by somebody else).

That, in fact, is one of the principle ways that the elect will know that they are "false" prophets and "false" Christs (rather than the real McCoy), because if someone has to 'tell' us that Jesus has returned, that's the very way that we'll know for certain that He has not :preach:

Matthew 24
23 If anyone says to you, ‘Behold, here is the Christ,’ or ‘There He is,’ do not believe him.
24 For false Christs and false prophets will arise and will show great signs and wonders, so as to mislead, if possible, even the elect.
25 Behold, I have told you in advance.
26 So if they say to you, ‘Behold, He is in the wilderness,’ do not go out, or, ‘Behold, He is in the inner rooms,’ do not believe them.
27 For just as the lightning comes from the east and flashes even to the west, so will the coming of the Son of Man be.

--David
p.s. - Jesus, since His Incarnation, remains both fully God ~and~ fully man. He is the God/man. When He returns to rule at His 2nd Coming, He will do so in His resurrected/glorified (physical) body.

shilohsfoal · Dec 18, 2018

claninja said:
In order to understand the coming of Christ, one must understand the language used to describe the coming of God in the OT.

Notice David describes God coming down from heaven on clouds to judge Saul and his enemies. this fulfilled in David's day
2 Samuel 22:1,10-11 David sang this song to the LORD on the day the LORD delivered him from the hand of all his enemies and from the hand of Saul. He parted the heavens and came down with dark clouds beneath His feet. He mounted a cherub and flew; He soaredb on the wings of the wind.

Notice Isaiah prophecies of God riding on clouds coming to Egypt for judgment. This was fulfilled when the king of Assyria invaded Egypt
Isaiah 19:1 This is an oracle concerning Egypt: Behold, the LORD rides on a swift cloud;
He is coming to Egypt. The idols of Egypt will tremble before Him, and the hearts of the Egyptians will melt within them.
Isaiah 20:4 so the king of Assyria will lead away the captives of Egypt and the exiles of Cush, young and old alike, naked and barefoot, with bared buttocks—to Egypt’s shame.

Notice Micah prophecies of God coming down to judge Samaria. This was accomplished by the Assyrians.
Micah 1:3,6 For behold, the LORD comes forth out of His dwelling place; He will come down and tread
on the high places of the earth. Therefore I will make Samaria a heap of rubble in the open field,
a planting area for a vineyard.

Notice when Jesus prophecies of the vineyard owner COMING to destroy the wicked tenants, the Pharisees realize Jesus is talking about them.
matthew 21:40-41,45 Therefore, when the owner of the vineyard COMES, what will he do to those tenants?” “He will bring those wretches to a wretched end,” they declared, “and will rent out the vineyard to other tenants who will give him his share of the fruit at harvest time.” When the chief priests and Pharisees heard Jesus’ parables, they knew He was speaking about them

In a parable about the same topic, God sends an army to destroy those originally invited to the wedding who killed his servants.
matthew 22:7 The king was enraged. He sent his troops to destroy those murderers and burn their city.

Thus we can confirm by Jesus' own words, in correlation with the OT language, that the coming of God would be associated with a foreign army coming to destroy Jerusalem.

In the instance of the olivet discourse and the coming of the son of man, the romans came and leveled Jerusalem, slaughtering those that rejected Christ

Luke 19:41-44 As Jesus approached Jerusalem and saw the city, He wept over it and said, “If only you had known on this day what would bring you peace! But now it is hidden from your eyes. For the days will come upon you when your enemies will barricade you and surround you and hem you in on every side. They will level you to the ground—you and the children within your walls. They will not leave one stone on another, because you did not recognize the time of your visitation from God.”

So you are ssying the roman,army is christ coming down,from,the heavens after the tribulation?

shilohsfoal · Dec 18, 2018

ewq1938 said:
How could I give such a list? I wasn't there and the bible doesn't speak of any of such names.

How about you tell us when the second coming happened since you are the one claiming verse 23 is the second coming. Don't need an exact day just a guess will be enough.

Jesus hasnt come .Simple as that.
As for the list.There isnt one.Not a single disciple died during those three days .Jesus was speaking of someone else at the time of the end .
As jesus said,he that endureth till the end shall be saved.The time of the end hasnt come yet.

Matthew 10:22 You will be hated by everyone on account of My name, but the one who perseveres to the end will be saved.

BABerean2 · Dec 18, 2018

claninja said:
Luke 19:41-44 As Jesus approached Jerusalem and saw the city, He wept over it and said, “If only you had known on this day what would bring you peace! But now it is hidden from your eyes. For the days will come upon you when your enemies will barricade you and surround you and hem you in on every side. They will level you to the ground—you and the children within your walls. They will not leave one stone on another, because you did not recognize the time of your visitation from God.”

Did Jesus say "they will level you to the ground", or did He say "I will level you to the ground", in the passage above?

.

ewq1938 · Dec 18, 2018

shilohsfoal said:
Jesus hasnt come .Simple as that.
As for the list.There isnt one.Not a single disciple died during those three days .Jesus was speaking of someone else at the time of the end .

Ok but isn't he speaking of and to the 12 disciples?

Mat 10:1 And when he had called unto him his twelve disciples, he gave them power against unclean spirits, to cast them out, and to heal all manner of sickness and all manner of disease.
Mat 10:2 Now the names of the twelve apostles are these; The first, Simon, who is called Peter, and Andrew his brother; James the son of Zebedee, and John his brother;
Mat 10:3 Philip, and Bartholomew; Thomas, and Matthew the publican; James the son of Alphaeus, and Lebbaeus, whose surname was Thaddaeus;
Mat 10:4 Simon the Canaanite, and Judas Iscariot, who also betrayed him.
Mat 10:5 These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not:
Mat 10:6 But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
Mat 10:7 And as ye go, preach, saying, The kingdom of heaven is at hand.
Mat 10:8 Heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, raise the dead, cast out devils: freely ye have received, freely give.
Mat 10:9 Provide neither gold, nor silver, nor brass in your purses,
Mat 10:10 Nor scrip for your journey, neither two coats, neither shoes, nor yet staves: for the workman is worthy of his meat.
Mat 10:11 And into whatsoever city or town ye shall enter, enquire who in it is worthy; and there abide till ye go thence.
Mat 10:12 And when ye come into an house, salute it.
Mat 10:13 And if the house be worthy, let your peace come upon it: but if it be not worthy, let your peace return to you.
Mat 10:14 And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear your words, when ye depart out of that house or city, shake off the dust of your feet.
Mat 10:15 Verily I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for the land of Sodom and Gomorrha in the day of judgment, than for that city.
Mat 10:16 Behold, I send you forth as sheep in the midst of wolves: be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves.
Mat 10:17 But beware of men: for they will deliver you up to the councils, and they will scourge you in their synagogues;
Mat 10:18 And ye shall be brought before governors and kings for my sake, for a testimony against them and the Gentiles.
Mat 10:19 But when they deliver you up, take no thought how or what ye shall speak: for it shall be given you in that same hour what ye shall speak.
Mat 10:20 For it is not ye that speak, but the Spirit of your Father which speaketh in you.
Mat 10:21 And the brother shall deliver up the brother to death, and the father the child: and the children shall rise up against their parents, and cause them to be put to death.
Mat 10:22 And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved.
Mat 10:23 But when they persecute you in this city, flee ye into another: for verily I say unto you, Ye shall not have gone over the cities of Israel, till the Son of man be come.

Parts of this does sound like the future GT but there is so much about the actual 12 that would contradict that thought.

shilohsfoal · Dec 19, 2018

ewq1938 said:
Ok but isn't he speaking of and to the 12 disciples?

Mat 10:1 And when he had called unto him his twelve disciples, he gave them power against unclean spirits, to cast them out, and to heal all manner of sickness and all manner of disease.
Mat 10:2 Now the names of the twelve apostles are these; The first, Simon, who is called Peter, and Andrew his brother; James the son of Zebedee, and John his brother;
Mat 10:3 Philip, and Bartholomew; Thomas, and Matthew the publican; James the son of Alphaeus, and Lebbaeus, whose surname was Thaddaeus;
Mat 10:4 Simon the Canaanite, and Judas Iscariot, who also betrayed him.
Mat 10:5 These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not:
Mat 10:6 But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
Mat 10:7 And as ye go, preach, saying, The kingdom of heaven is at hand.
Mat 10:8 Heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, raise the dead, cast out devils: freely ye have received, freely give.
Mat 10:9 Provide neither gold, nor silver, nor brass in your purses,
Mat 10:10 Nor scrip for your journey, neither two coats, neither shoes, nor yet staves: for the workman is worthy of his meat.
Mat 10:11 And into whatsoever city or town ye shall enter, enquire who in it is worthy; and there abide till ye go thence.
Mat 10:12 And when ye come into an house, salute it.
Mat 10:13 And if the house be worthy, let your peace come upon it: but if it be not worthy, let your peace return to you.
Mat 10:14 And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear your words, when ye depart out of that house or city, shake off the dust of your feet.
Mat 10:15 Verily I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for the land of Sodom and Gomorrha in the day of judgment, than for that city.
Mat 10:16 Behold, I send you forth as sheep in the midst of wolves: be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves.
Mat 10:17 But beware of men: for they will deliver you up to the councils, and they will scourge you in their synagogues;
Mat 10:18 And ye shall be brought before governors and kings for my sake, for a testimony against them and the Gentiles.
Mat 10:19 But when they deliver you up, take no thought how or what ye shall speak: for it shall be given you in that same hour what ye shall speak.
Mat 10:20 For it is not ye that speak, but the Spirit of your Father which speaketh in you.
Mat 10:21 And the brother shall deliver up the brother to death, and the father the child: and the children shall rise up against their parents, and cause them to be put to death.
Mat 10:22 And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved.
Mat 10:23 But when they persecute you in this city, flee ye into another: for verily I say unto you, Ye shall not have gone over the cities of Israel, till the Son of man be come.

Parts of this does sound like the future GT but there is so much about the actual 12 that would contradict that thought.

Who do the 12 represent?

Joshua 3:12 Now choose twelve men from the tribes of Israel, one from each tribe.

First,the twelve were sent.
Then ,the 12 tribes after them.

Revelation 14:4 These are the ones who have not been defiled with women, for they are virgins. They follow the Lamb wherever He goes. They have been redeemed from among men as firstfruits to God and to the Lamb.

claninja · Dec 19, 2018

shilohsfoal said:
So you are ssying the roman,army is christ coming down,from,the heavens after the tribulation?

I'm simply not changing the meaning of OT language to understand the coming of Christ.

When God came riding on clouds to judge Egypt, it was the Assyrian army invading egypt

When God came down from heaven to judge Samaria, it was the Assyrian attacking samaria

When God came down out of heaven to judge king Saul, it was the philistines and king saul's own sword.

When the vineyard owner came out of heaven to judge the wicked tenants it was the army (rome) he sent to destroy Jerusalem.

So why would the coming of Christ, who is God, be different in the NT than in the OT?

claninja · Dec 19, 2018

BABerean2 said:
Did Jesus say "they will level you to the ground", or did He say "I will level you to the ground", in the passage above?

He stated "they will level you to the grown". God used the roman armies to level Jerusalem to the ground. They were the hammer in his hand, just as Babylon had been previously.

Just as when God came down from heaven in judgment using nations to destroy nations (Isaiah 19, Micah 1:3), so to when Christ, who is God, came down from heaven, used the roman army as his hammer to destroy Jerusalem.

Matthew 22:7 The king was enraged. He sent his troops to destroy those murderers and burn their city.

Matthew 21:40-41
Therefore, when the owner of the vineyard COMES, what will he do to those tenants?” “He will bring those wretches to a wretched end,” they declared, “and will rent out the vineyard to other tenants who will give him his share of the fruit at harvest time.”

And the priests and Pharisees knew Jesus was talking about them.
Matthew 21:45 When the chief priests and Pharisees heard Jesus’ parables, they knew He was speaking about them.

Christs second coming

Jacks or better to open

Active Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

growing in grace

I love you three.

Jacks or better to open

Newbie

Well-Known Member

His perfect way sets me free. 2 Samuel 22:33

Well-Known Member

I love you three.

Simul Justus et Peccator

Jacks or better to open

Jacks or better to open

Newbie

I love you three.

Jacks or better to open

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Similar threads