End Times Anti-Christ Theory

ewq1938

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Not sure how Jesus can be the AoD if the Roman armies were the AoD.

Because you are saying they are his people ie: the people of the prince who you claim is Jesus. Therefore Jesus is the AoD which doesn't sit right with me because he spoke of the AoD as something Christians were to watch for and avoid.

But we need to return to the original question: What Hebrew word in Daniel 9:24-27 means "antichrist"?


That was already addressed.

The description includes no reference, explicit or implicit, to "antichrist".

Only two books in the entire bible even use the term. The AC has many names and Daniel uses a few dif ones for that person.
 
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jgr

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Only two books in the entire bible even use the term. The AC has many names and Daniel uses a few dif ones for that person.

They can't be different ones if there is nothing in their definitions or descriptions to identify them as AC.

The Holy Spirit could easily have prefixed the word "prince" in Daniel 9:26 with the prefix or word "anti" or "against", to plainly confirm the meaning as being antichrist. But He didn't.

It's evident that He was not referring to antichrist.
 
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ewq1938

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They can't be different ones if there is nothing in their definitions or descriptions to identify them as AC.


Yes there are many different names for the person John called the Ac. He doesn't even use that specific term in Rev, no other writer did either. It is but one of many names for that specific person.
 
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jgr

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Yes there are many different names for the person John called the Ac. He doesn't even use that specific term in Rev, no other writer did either. It is but one of many names for that specific person.

The identical Hebrew word for "prince" ("nagid") cannot refer to "Christ" in Daniel 9:25, and refer to "antichrist" in Daniel 9:26.
 
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ewq1938

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The identical Hebrew word for "prince" ("nagid") cannot refer to "Christ" in Daniel 9:25, and refer to "antichrist" in Daniel 9:26.


Yet one prince can be Christ and one prince can be the AC.

The same bad Prince in Daniel 9 who is responsible for the overspreading of abominations is the same "vile person" in Daniel 11 is also responsible for having the AoD placed.
 
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jgr

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Yet one prince can be Christ and one prince can be the AC.

The same bad Prince in Daniel 9 who is responsible for the overspreading of abominations is the same "vile person" in Daniel 11 is also responsible for having the AoD placed.

There is no bad prince in Daniel 9. There is only prince Messiah.

The "vile person" in Daniel 11 is described as neither a prince nor as antichrist.
 
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ewq1938

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There is no bad prince in Daniel 9. There is only prince Messiah.

The "vile person" in Daniel 11 is described as neither a prince nor as antichrist.

Yet the vile person is called a king which is the same concept, a leader or commander, and thus is the same bad prince behind the overspreading of abominations etc. If you think that person is Jesus then it's gonna have to be Jesus in chp 11 as well.

In the end times and the timeframe of the Gt there is the bad ruler, and there is Christ that defeats him. The bad one is called many different names but he is the one responsible for the bad things and persecutions not Christ and it is he not Christ who is the AoD and causes abominations and desolations.


Dan 9:25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.
Dan 9:26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.

It is also clear that the translators view the two princes as different because they choose to capitalize the one who is Messiah but not the other signifying the two are not the same person in their opinions which I of course agree with.
 
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ToServe said in post #26:

Christ mentions false christs and false prophets in the plural.

That's right (Matthew 24:24), but the beast who comes up out of the earth in Revelation 13:11-16 represents the individual man who will become the future Antichrist's False Prophet (Revelation 19:20, Revelation 16:13). He could be a secretly-apostate pope who at some point during his tenure will make a great push for peace and unity between Christianity and Islam. He could say something like: "Why do we fight each other? Are not we all the spiritual children of Abraham and of his God, the one God? Cannot we lay aside our foolish, man-made differences of theology, which have done us no good at all, but have only brought us hatred and violence, and unite into one religion of Abraham, one religion of peace, based on love for the one God and love for our fellow man? What is more important than this?"

He could be so skillful in elucidating what the moderate Muslims could call "the true, peaceful, loving nature of Islam", that he could be hailed by them worldwide as (in their words) "a Great Imam, come to rescue our beloved Islam from the bad reputation falsely given to it by the terrorists". In this way, a pope could come to hold high positions of power in two religions at the same time, which could be symbolized by the two horns of the False Prophet lamb (Revelation 13:11). This would be similar to how the seven horns of the true-Jesus lamb in Revelation 5:6 could represent the true Jesus holding seven positions of power at the same time (compare Jesus wearing many crowns at the same time in Revelation 19:12). The False Prophet could even say that he is Jesus returned (via "reincarnation"). But he will not that say he is Christ. For the False Prophet and the Antichrist will deny that Jesus is the Christ (1 John 2:22) and will deny that Christ is in the flesh (2 John 1:7).

Once the False Prophet by his amazing miracles has brought the world under his spell (Revelation 13:13-18, Revelation 19:20), including many Muslims and Christians who may not care much for scriptural dogma, but could go wild over his signs and wonders, he could begin to (in his words) "restore to the world the real message which was spoken by me (Jesus) at my first coming, and by the great prophet Mohammed, but which message became corrupted by power-hungry men when they copied and changed the early manuscripts of the Bible and the Koran". He could then gradually initiate the world into the Antichrist's Gnostic Luciferianism (1 John 4:3, Revelation 13:4-6), also called Satanism, a religion which could have existed since ancient times in some "mystery" cults, and which still exists today in the highest degree of initiation of a worldwide secret society. The False Prophet could present his miraculously calling fire down from heaven (Revelation 13:13) as purported proof that Lucifer (the dragon, Satan) and the Antichrist are the true God (Revelation 13:4-8, Revelation 12:9), in an inversion of how back in Old Testament times the prophet Elijah miraculously called fire down from heaven to prove that YHWH is the true God (1 Kings 18:37-39).

--

If a secretly-apostate pope does become the future Antichrist's False Prophet (of Revelation 13:11-16, Revelation 19:20, and Revelation 16:13), then adherents of Catholicism will have to decide what their ultimate source of truth is: Is it the pope and the RCC, or God and the Bible? Many adherents of Catholicism who know God and the Bible well, and hold to them as their ultimate source of truth, will no doubt be utterly aghast at the false doctrines of a False Prophet pope. Such adherents of Catholicism could demand that he be removed for heresy, and apostasy, and that the cardinals elect a new pope. But other adherents of Catholicism, including many cardinals, bishops, and priests, could be deceived (along with most of the rest of the world) into believing the False Prophet pope's false doctrines, because of his ability to perform the most amazing miracles (Revelation 13:13-14, Revelation 19:20; cf. Matthew 24:24).

And so a great schism could arise within the RCC. Compare the Akita prophecy: "The work of the devil will infiltrate even into the Church in such a way that one will see cardinals opposing cardinals, bishops against bishops". Many adherents of Catholicism could follow the False Prophet pope, while other adherents of Catholicism could reject him, and elect their own, new pope (or reinstate a former pope who is still alive), whom they could declare to be the "True Pope". But this new (or reinstated) "True Pope" could then be murdered, along with many of his followers, by the False Prophet pope's soldiers. Compare the Third Secret of Fatima: "he [the pope] was killed by a group of soldiers who fired bullets and arrows at him, and in the same way there died one after another the other Bishops, Priests, men and women Religious, and various lay people of different ranks and positions". Could the soldiers firing "arrows" be the Vatican's Swiss Guards, whose weapons and colorful uniforms hark back to the Middle Ages?

After this slaughter, the False Prophet pope could manage to retain the papacy, and full control of the Vatican, and through his (deceived) cardinals, bishops, and priests, retain full control of all RCC cathedrals, parishes, churches, etc., throughout the world. And when the Antichrist (the individual-man aspect of Revelation's "beast") obtains power over all nations, he and the False Prophet will make war against true, Biblical Christians (whether they are adherents of Catholicism or not) throughout the world, and will physically overcome them and kill them (by beheading) in every nation (Revelation 13:7-10, Revelation 14:12-13, Revelation 20:4-6, Matthew 24:9-13).

It is only when the Antichrist has completely broken the physical power of the true Church (which consists of all true Christians, whether they are adherents of Catholicism or not: Ephesians 4:4-6) that the future Tribulation will end (Daniel 12:7b), and Jesus Christ's Second Coming will immediately occur, at which time He will physically resurrect and rapture (gather together) the Church (Matthew 24:29-31; 2 Thessalonians 2:1-8, Revelation 19:7 to 20:6), of all times. And at His Second Coming, Jesus Christ will tread the winepress of God's wrath alone (Isaiah 63:3, Revelation 19:15-21), and so He/God will get all of the glory for defeating the power of evil on the earth (Deuteronomy 32:39-43). For He/God will not share this glory with the Church (cf. Isaiah 42:8-14, Isaiah 26:18).
 
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ewq1938 said in post #27:

One can revile God and claim to be God at the same time.

Not the same God, for then one would be reviling oneself.

The Antichrist will revile YHWH as an evil god, based on Gnosticism.

Gnosticism is an ancient religious movement which says that everything material is inherently evil, while only that which is purely spirit can be good. Gnosticism teaches that all humans used to be purely spirit and dwelling in bliss from all eternity in a purely-spiritual heaven called the "Pleroma", until by some mishap humanity fell into the material universe and became trapped within fleshly bodies. Gnosticism reviles YHWH, the God of Biblical Christians, and the Creator of the material universe and of all fleshly bodies, as an evil, subordinate deity, a "Demiurge", who is keeping humans imprisoned and suffering within fleshly bodies and in the material universe.

Gnosticism became one of the main enemies of the early Church, and it will become the greatest enemy of the Church during the future Tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24. For the future Antichrist will be a Gnostic. He will teach the Gnostic/antichrist lie that Christ is not in the flesh (1 John 4:3). And the Antichrist, like the Gnostics, will utterly revile YHWH (Revelation 13:6, Daniel 11:36). The Antichrist (the individual-man aspect of Revelation's "beast") will instead bring the world into the conscious and open worship of Lucifer (Satan, the dragon) and himself (Revelation 13:4, Revelation 13:8, Revelation 12:9).

ewq1938 said in post #27:

I have no doubt he will say he is Jesus Christ.

Note that is not possible for two reasons: First, the Antichrist will deny that Jesus is the Christ (1 John 2:22). And, second, he will deny that Christ is in the flesh (1 John 4:3).
 
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jgr said in post #28:

Which Hebrew word in Daniel 9:24-27 means "Antichrist"?

Note that the idea of the individual-man Antichrist does not have to be explicitly referred to in the Bible as "the Antichrist" for it to be true and supported by the Bible; just as, for example, the idea of the Trinity does not have to be explicitly referred to in the Bible as "the Trinity" for it to be true and supported by the Bible (e.g. Matthew 28:19, John 1:1,14, Acts 5:3-4).

Any person is an antichrist who denies that Jesus of Nazareth is the Christ (1 John 2:22), or denies that Jesus is the human/divine Son of God (1 John 2:22b), or denies that Christ is in the flesh (2 John 1:7). The spirit of antichrist which will animate the future Antichrist has been working since the first century AD (1 John 4:3; 2 Thessalonians 2:7a) animating many antichrists since that time (2 John 1:7).

The existence of many antichrists (1 John 2:18) does not contradict that there will be an individual man (2 Thessalonians 2:3-4,9, Revelation 13:4-18) who is commonly called the Antichrist; just as on the side of good, the existence of many sons of God (John 1:12) does not contradict that there is an individual man, Jesus Christ of Nazareth, who is the Son of God (John 20:31).

The man commonly called the Antichrist will be the fulfillment of the individual "man of sin" (2 Thessalonians 2:3) who will sit (at least one time) in a future, third Jewish temple building in Jerusalem and proclaim himself God (2 Thessalonians 2:4, Daniel 11:36). He will fulfill the individual "man" aspect of the "beast" who will come (Revelation 13:18) and bring the world into the conscious and open worship of Lucifer (Satan, the dragon) and himself (Revelation 13:4,8, Revelation 12:9). He will rule the earth for 3.5 literal years (Revelation 13:5-10, Daniel 7:25, Daniel 12:7) and will have a miracle-working False Prophet (Revelation 19:20, Revelation 16:13) who by amazing, Satanic miracles (2 Thessalonians 2:9b), such as calling fire down from heaven (Revelation 13:13), will deceive the people of the world into worshipping a speaking (possibly an android) image of the Antichrist (Revelation 13:15) and receiving a mark of the Antichrist's name or gematrial name-number (666) on their right hand or forehead (Revelation 13:16-18). The Antichrist and his False Prophet will be ultimately cast into the lake of fire at Jesus Christ's future, Second Coming (Revelation 19:20), while at that time Satan will be bound in the Bottomless Pit for 1,000 years (Revelation 20:1-3). None of these things has happened yet.

Any mistaken teaching which claims that the Antichrist has already come and gone could be employed in our future by the real Antichrist to fool some Christians into thinking that he is not the Antichrist.

The idea of a future, individual-man Antichrist was correctly recognized in the Bible by the Church from early on. Irenaeus (born c. 140 AD) used the term: "speaking of Antichrist, [Paul] says, 'who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped'" (Against Heresies 3:6:5; 2 Thessalonians 2:4); "...by means of the events which shall occur in the time of Antichrist is it shown that he, being an apostate and a robber, is anxious to be adored as God" (Against Heresies 5:25:1; 2 Thessalonians 2:4, Daniel 11:36, Revelation 13:8); "...when this Antichrist shall have devastated all things in this world, he will reign for three years and six months, and sit in the temple at Jerusalem" (Against Heresies 5:30:4b; Revelation 13:5; 2 Thessalonians 2:4, Daniel 7:25, Daniel 12:7); "...the number of the name of the beast ... the name of Antichrist" (Against Heresies 5:30:1; Revelation 13:17c-18).

The gematrial numerical values of the letters in the Antichrist's personal name will add up to six hundred and sixty-six (Revelation 13:17c-18).
 
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jgr

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It is also clear that the translators view the two princes as different because they choose to capitalize the one who is Messiah but not the other signifying the two are not the same person in their opinions which I of course agree with.

The original 1611 KJV capitalized Prince:

Daniel 9:26
And after threescore and two weekes, shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himselfe, and the people of the Prince that shall come, shall destroy the citie, and the Sanctuarie, and the ende thereof shall be with a flood, and vnto the ende of the warre desolations are determined.

Christ is referred to as a prince (lower case p) here:

Revelation 1:5
And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,
 
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jgr

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Note that the idea of the individual-man Antichrist does not have to be explicitly referred to in the Bible as "the Antichrist" for it to be true and supported by the Bible; just as, for example, the idea of the Trinity does not have to be explicitly referred to in the Bible as "the Trinity" for it to be true and supported by the Bible (e.g. Matthew 28:19, John 1:1,14, Acts 5:3-4).

Any person is an antichrist who denies that Jesus of Nazareth is the Christ (1 John 2:22), or denies that Jesus is the human/divine Son of God (1 John 2:22b), or denies that Christ is in the flesh (2 John 1:7). The spirit of antichrist which will animate the future Antichrist has been working since the first century AD (1 John 4:3; 2 Thessalonians 2:7a) animating many antichrists since that time (2 John 1:7).

The existence of many antichrists (1 John 2:18) does not contradict that there will be an individual man (2 Thessalonians 2:3-4,9, Revelation 13:4-18) who is commonly called the Antichrist; just as on the side of good, the existence of many sons of God (John 1:12) does not contradict that there is an individual man, Jesus Christ of Nazareth, who is the Son of God (John 20:31).

The man commonly called the Antichrist will be the fulfillment of the individual "man of sin" (2 Thessalonians 2:3) who will sit (at least one time) in a future, third Jewish temple building in Jerusalem and proclaim himself God (2 Thessalonians 2:4, Daniel 11:36). He will fulfill the individual "man" aspect of the "beast" who will come (Revelation 13:18) and bring the world into the conscious and open worship of Lucifer (Satan, the dragon) and himself (Revelation 13:4,8, Revelation 12:9). He will rule the earth for 3.5 literal years (Revelation 13:5-10, Daniel 7:25, Daniel 12:7) and will have a miracle-working False Prophet (Revelation 19:20, Revelation 16:13) who by amazing, Satanic miracles (2 Thessalonians 2:9b), such as calling fire down from heaven (Revelation 13:13), will deceive the people of the world into worshipping a speaking (possibly an android) image of the Antichrist (Revelation 13:15) and receiving a mark of the Antichrist's name or gematrial name-number (666) on their right hand or forehead (Revelation 13:16-18). The Antichrist and his False Prophet will be ultimately cast into the lake of fire at Jesus Christ's future, Second Coming (Revelation 19:20), while at that time Satan will be bound in the Bottomless Pit for 1,000 years (Revelation 20:1-3). None of these things has happened yet.

Any mistaken teaching which claims that the Antichrist has already come and gone could be employed in our future by the real Antichrist to fool some Christians into thinking that he is not the Antichrist.

The idea of a future, individual-man Antichrist was correctly recognized in the Bible by the Church from early on. Irenaeus (born c. 140 AD) used the term: "speaking of Antichrist, [Paul] says, 'who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped'" (Against Heresies 3:6:5; 2 Thessalonians 2:4); "...by means of the events which shall occur in the time of Antichrist is it shown that he, being an apostate and a robber, is anxious to be adored as God" (Against Heresies 5:25:1; 2 Thessalonians 2:4, Daniel 11:36, Revelation 13:8); "...when this Antichrist shall have devastated all things in this world, he will reign for three years and six months, and sit in the temple at Jerusalem" (Against Heresies 5:30:4b; Revelation 13:5; 2 Thessalonians 2:4, Daniel 7:25, Daniel 12:7); "...the number of the name of the beast ... the name of Antichrist" (Against Heresies 5:30:1; Revelation 13:17c-18).

The gematrial numerical values of the letters in the Antichrist's personal name will add up to six hundred and sixty-six (Revelation 13:17c-18).

No Hebrew word in Daniel 9:24-27 means "antichrist", i.e. mentions antichrist either explicitly or implicitly in its definition or description.

There is no word for "antichrist" in the ancient Hebrew vocabulary.

Which Hebrew word in Daniel 9:24-27 is then presumed to refer to antichrist?
 
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The original 1611 KJV capitalized Prince:

Daniel 9:26
And after threescore and two weekes, shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himselfe, and the people of the Prince that shall come, shall destroy the citie, and the Sanctuarie, and the ende thereof shall be with a flood, and vnto the ende of the warre desolations are determined.

Yes and it also has the Apocrypha that was removed. The KJV we all know now made changes which I agree with.



Christ is referred to as a prince (lower case p) here:

Revelation 1:5
And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,

That's because there isn't a second prince to distinguish Him from there.
 
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Yes and it also has the Apocrypha that was removed. The KJV we all know now made changes which I agree with.





That's because there isn't a second prince to distinguish Him from there.

In what instances in Scripture is antichrist described as a prince?
 
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In what instances in Scripture is antichrist described as a prince?

Daniel 9, which we are already discussing. The AC is mentioned by Daniel using other names for that same person. The actual term "Antichrist" is the least used name for him but it's the most popular.
 
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Daniel 9, which we are already discussing. The AC is mentioned by Daniel using other names for that same person. The actual term "Antichrist" is the least used name for him but it's the most popular.

Messiah is described elsewhere in Scripture as a prince (Isaiah 9:6;Acts 3:15; Acts 5:31; Revelation 1:5).

Where else in Scripture is antichrist described as a prince?
 
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Messiah is described elsewhere in Scripture as a prince (Isaiah 9:6;Acts 3:15; Acts 5:31; Revelation 1:5).

Where else in Scripture is antichrist described as a prince?

Daniel 9, not to mention Satan is called the prince of the world and the AC is Satan whether him literally or a person Satan is controlling.
 
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jgr

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Daniel 9, not to mention Satan is called the prince of the world and the AC is Satan whether him literally or a person Satan is controlling.

There is nowhere else in Scripture outside of his presumed presence in Daniel 9 where antichrist is described as a prince.

There is no Scripture that claims that antichrist is another Satan, which would mean that there are therefore two Satans.

Satan and antichrist are separate individuals. If antichrist is a prince because Satan is a prince, then antichrist must also be prince of this world, as well as everything else ascribed to Satan. Which he isn't.

And Satan, by his consummately evil nature, doesn't take kindly to competition.
 
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Yes and it also has the Apocrypha that was removed. The KJV we all know now made changes which I agree with.

The Apocrypha in the 1611 KJV was placed in its own separate section, and was recognized as non-canonical, because the canon had been defined and established over 1,000 years previously.

If the presence of the Apocrypha in the 1611 KJV could invalidate the rendering of Daniel 9:26, then why could it not also invalidate the rendering of any other verse or passage in Scripture?

That's because there isn't a second prince to distinguish Him from there.

The 1611 KJV capitalized Prince in Revelation 1:5:
And from Iesus Christ, who is the faithful witnesse, and the first begotten of the dead, and the Prince of the kings of the earth: vnto him that loued vs, and washed vs from our sinnes in his owne blood

However, if Messiah can be an uncapitalized prince in later KJVs in Revelation 1:5, then there is nothing precluding Him from being an uncapitalized prince in Daniel 9:26.

But in short, capitalization is inconsistent and therefore inconclusive. There are better ways of ascertaining interpretation and meaning.

Another better way to answer the question, "Who is the prince in Daniel 9:26", can be seen grammatically by referring to the closest clarifying antecedent. That is unquestionably the prince in Daniel 9:25, who is unquestionably Messiah.
 
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There is nowhere else in Scripture outside of his presumed presence in Daniel 9 where antichrist is described as a prince.

Do you deny the AC is active in the end times? If not, then do you not expect to see references to him in end time passages? Certainly Daniel would speak of this person during the time he is to be active in the word. In one passage he is a prince of bad people who do bad things, in another he is called the little horn, in another the AoD. It's all the same person doing the same things.


There is no Scripture that claims that antichrist is another Satan, which would mean that there are therefore two Satans.

There are many Satan's and since Satan is also this great dragon he can easily also be the AC, or as many believe a person Satan directly inhabits which is still him.
 
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