Investigative Judgment (Seventh day Adventists)

liberty of conscience

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You said...…….
"Indeed, since the scripture does not teach OSAS."

That is what I said, and demonstrated from OT King Saul, and NT Ananias and Sapphira, which you do not address contextually, at all. You ignored what I presented, and instead went on a circle chase, which when I address you will move onto yet another text, instead of dealing with the first response and this response. Please be advised I have all of the so-called OSAS 'go-to' texts, and have complete contextual material on each. Therefore, please address the first post, and we can get to all the others as needful.

I disagree.
I understand, but you ignored responding to the material I provided, and simply went on a circle chase.

John 3:15-18 says about Christ:...……
“The Son of Man must be lifted up, that everyone who believes in him may have eternal life. For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him. Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because he has not believed in the name of God's one and only Son.”

Do you understand that "believeth" (KJB) is a verb; πιστευωνG4100 V-PAP-NSM (verb-present-active-participle-nominative-singular-masculine). It is an action word, yes? Do you understand that it is not a 'one time' action? That it is to be a continuous (on going by choice) action?

Thus it is not an "I believe" and that's an end of it (that is the start of it, a "born again" (a brand new child, but that child must feed and grow and trust), but it is to be a daily, moment by moment "belief", a continual hold on Christ Jesus.

Notice the context of Moses and the Serpent. Some believed didn't they? Yet did all enter the promised land, and continue to believe? See 1 Corinthians 10, which speaks of the "written for our adminition".

Thus this passage does not contradict what was shared with you on King Saul, nor Ananias and Sapphira, nor against what was presented to you in Hebrews 6, etc. The person who believes, can always, of their own free will, cease (by choice) to believe. They do not have to cease to believe, but they can always choose to do so. Salvation is a marriage. It begins with "I do" (believe), but that is not the end, but the beginning. This passage doesn't support OSAS, but what was already shared. God's word says:

1Co_7:15 But if the unbelieving depart, let him depart. A brother or a sister is not under bondage in such cases: but God hath called us to peace.

This applies also to the relationship between the beleiver and Christ Jesus.

The salvation in Christ is not temporary, it is eternal.

Indeed, so long as the person "believes" (based on faith, thus conditional, not unconditional), but once the person decides to cease to believe, Christ Jesus (though pleading in love) does not force anyone to remain who wants to leave.

In John 10:28-30, Jesus says:...…….
“I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one can snatch them out of my hand. My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all; no one can snatch them out of my Father's hand. I and the Father are one."

In John 10:28-29; The word "pluck" is again the Koine Greek αρπασειG726 V-FAI-3S, "Harpazo" and it means "to forcefully take away, to snatch away by might/power", and no one is saying that anyone can do so. The person always has the ability/choice to leave of their own free will.

How did the Devil get Man to sin, did He forcibly take Man [Adam and Eve] from God, or was it through deception, and drawing away?

Look at the other texts that the word "pluck" is used, which is how actual Bible study is done, instead of what is being done - http://www.bluelette...ongs=G726&t=KJV

"take Him [Jesus] by force" - John 6:15

"the wolf catcheth them" - John 10:12

"the Spirit of the LORD caught away Philip" - Acts 8:39

"to take him [Paul] by force" - Acts 23:10

etc.

Therefore John 10:28-29, read that "no [man] can take them by force out of my hand... Father's hand."; and therefore is in complete harmony with the other texts of Scripture which declare that we may be "drawn away":

But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed. James 1:14

Notice the context, that the victory only goes to those that "endureth temptation" [James 1:12] and overcome in Christ Jesus by the Power/Grace of the Holy Spirit. Notice again James give the sure warning, "Do not err, my beloved brethren." James 1:16 and "But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves." James 1:22, for we can be self-deceived. We can be "drawn away" from God, of our own desires, and "enticed" to leave God altogether for the deceptions of satan. That is why the warning is given all over the Scripture, Satan can "devour" us! OSAS is the deception of the devil that he may pick off the arrogant, the presumptuous ones of God's grace, which take it to mean that no matter what one does that they cannot lose out. What a foolish and utterly hypocritical notion! Satan will kill us dead, and all it takes is to move out from under the protection of God, by choosing other than His will [Psalms 40:8], etc. Though all men are tempted, God makes a away of escape, that we might not sin [1 John 3:4], but we have to choose to take it. God does not choose for us.

Just as the Israelites were the "ensamples" [types] [1 Corinthians 10:11] for us, as they were just upon the borders of entering in, they were ensnared of the enemy, and were destroyed! Do not we see the real danger of the same unto our own soul?! They could turn away from God, even as we, by our own free choice that God gave unto us. We would then be using the power of the choice that God gave us to refuse God.

For if ye turn away from after him, he will yet again leave them in the wilderness; and ye shall destroy all this people. Numbers 32:15

But if thine heart turn away, so that thou wilt not hear, but shalt be drawn away, and worship other gods, and serve them; Deuteronomy 30:17

I denounce unto you this day, that ye shall surely perish, and that ye shall not prolong your days upon the land, whither thou passest over Jordan to go to possess it. Deuteronomy 30:18

Some say Israel had a different relationship to God. No, read 1 Corinthians 10, they had the Lamb, they had the Baptism, they had the Bread, they had all that we have, including the Water [Holy Spirit] from the Rock [Christ Jesus]. King Saul himself, was "...turned into another man." [1 Samuel 10:6] by the Holy Spirit, and yet he is forever lost, "rejected" of God, because he continually refused to repent, after a time of walking with the Lord, to listen to Him any longer and grieved away the Holy Spirit [“the Spirit of the LORD departed from Saul” 1 Samuel 16:14; & "the LORD ... was departed from Saul" 1 Samuel 18:12].

See that ye refuse not him that speaketh. For if they escaped not who refused him that spake on earth, much more shall not we escape, if we turn away from him that speaketh from heaven: Hebrews 12:25

I desire to see all safe from any of that, and standing upon the sure Word, not a vain and hopeless, No matter what one does, that it cannot affect our standing before God. That was one of the very same lies of Lucifer in Heaven ["iniquitous traffick"]. Paul knew and warned others, and feared:

But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway. 1 Corinthians 9:27

"castaway" means "unapproved, unfit, reprobate" - http://www.bluelette...rongs=G96&t=KJV

Shall we not hear the Word plead with us?:

For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, Hebrews 6:4

And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, Hebrews 6:5

If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame. Hebrews 6:6

...

But that which beareth thorns and briers is rejected, and is nigh unto cursing; whose end is to be burned. Hebrews 6:8

That word "rejected" is the very same word Paul used in 1 Corinthians 9:27 for "castaway", and even as Jesus said, as the branch that did not abide in the Vine, it will wither, and be good for nothing, but to be gathered and thrown into the fire...

Some think that being “born again” is immutable protection against being lost.

Why do they think that "born again" means apart from obedience to the Law of God [Acts 5:32; john 14:15; Exodus 20:6, Hebrews 5:9, Romans 6:16 Revelation 12:17; 14:12; 22:14, etc], yet God is 'restoring' [Acts 3:21; "restitution"] us to what we would have been before sin of Adam, getting back that face to face [1 Corinthians 13:12] relationship that Mankind had with God before sin [1 John 3:4], separated us from God, which is why it is called "redemption" [to purchase back again what was lost].

Also, according to the Bible, if we could lose our salvation, then it would be lost forever

True. That is why it is very serious business. Hebrews 6, etc is clear.

because Christ only died once for the payment of our sins.
Indeed. Eternal matters are at the heart of it. Very good, most people do not see what you just saw.

To accept that we can lose our salvation means that the Scriptures must be rejected.

The two things are exclusive of each other. The scriptures must be acccepted, which teach that salvation can be 'lost' (given up, turned away from after being accepted).

Will you accept what scripture has said then, will you accept what has been shared now, or will you attempt to go to yet another scripture, which I will tell you in advance cannot help OSAS, but will demonstrate the futility of that dangerous doctrine.
 
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BobRyan

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BobRyan said:
I prefer to stay with the topic of the thread - and to continue pointing out what the Bible says - even if someone does not want to read that part of the Bible.

I would take that as meaning "no, I agree with all she taught concerning the Bible"

I love the fact that you interpret "stick with what the Bible says" as a statement in favor of what Ellen White wrote.

It is rather heart warming to think that a Baptist would do that.
 
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BobRyan

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I am a reformed Baptist, so would pretty much agree with what is taught in the 1689 Confession,

What a rare find - a Baptist who will argue that the 7th day Sabbath of creation week was given to mankind in Eden - is part of the Ten Commandments which is the moral law of God written on the heart under the New Covenant and is binding on all mankind both saints and the lost -- just as the "Baptist Confession of Faith" does.

Though it is "odd" that I am the only one stating that point ... out of curiosity - can you do that as well?
 
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liberty of conscience

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...aberrant teachings such as the Investigative Judgment...
The Bible [KJB] doctrine is still called the Investigative Judgment by true Seventh-day Adventists:

The saints do not get to escape judgment, though they have an Advocate, Jesus Christ the Righteous:

Psalms 7:11 KJB - God judgeth the righteous, and God is angry [with the wicked] every day.

Psalms 37:33 KJB - The LORD will not leave him in his hand, nor condemn him when he is judged.

Ecclesiastes 3:17 KJB - I said in mine heart, God shall judge the righteous and the wicked: for there is a time there for every purpose and for every work.

Ecclesiastes 12:14 KJB - For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether [it be] good, or whether [it be] evil.

The record books in Heaven already kindly posted online - COL 2:14-17 The REAL truth from God's Word

The investigative judgment is found in type and in prophecy throughout the whole of scripture [KJB]:

In Genesis 2 & 3, we see Eve being deceived into sin, though Adam was warned, and He having warned her, and Adam following in sin, and then "they heard the voice of the LORD God walking in the garden in the cool of the day", and God ['Jesus'] investigates, inquiring and asking questions [Genesis 3:9-19; not that God doesn't know, but it is for the benefit of the angels and Adam/Eve and us], having already warned man of the sentence for sin [Genesis 2:17], and then God carries out sentence, but also gives hope [Genesis 3:15].

In Genesis 4, we see Cain and Abel, which both claimed to worship God, yet one was a son of that wicked one, satan. When Abel was killed by Cain, God came down and asked/inquired/investigated of Cain, before sentence was carried out.

In Genesis 6-9, we see that the world was becoming wicked, and while many claimed to follow God, they were already inter-marrying with the children of Cain. God looks upon the world in investigation, before execution of Judgment by the Flood.

In Genesis 10-11, we see that the people again rebelled, and God came down to see and look and investigate, before the execution of Judgment in the separation of the languages.

In Genesis 17-19, we see that God had delivered the people of Lot and Sodom, and yet Sodom did not truly repent, and went further in rebellion, and God came down to see/investigate/judge before execution of Judgment. ...etc...

In Leviticus 16 & 23, we see that Israel, and all that claimed to follow God, was to enter into the time of the typical Day of Atonement, wherein the Priest bore into the Sanctuary, upon the Breast plate of Judgment the people, represented by the stones. Anyone found not to be in harmony with God, in true repentance, was to be cut off at the end of it.

In 1 Kings 3, we see Solomon [type of Christ] having an investigation between two persons [women] over a dead Child [Christ], and a living Child [Christ] to see who really loved the Child. Solomon investigates in a judgment setting upon His throne, and gives a test, and a sentence testing the loyalty of the True mother [true Church, worshippers] and the corruption of heart of the false mother [false church, worshippers].

In Ezra 2, we see an investigative judgment in type:

Ezra 2:61 KJB - And of the children of the priests: the children of Habaiah, the children of Koz, the children of Barzillai; which took a wife of the daughters of Barzillai the Gileadite, and was called after their name:

Ezra 2:62 KJB - These sought their register among those that were reckoned by genealogy, but they were not found: therefore were they, as polluted, put from the priesthood.

Ezra 2:63 KJB - And the Tirshatha said unto them, that they should not eat of the most holy things, till there stood up a priest with Urim and with Thummim.

All of those priests coming back from the captivity of Babylon, had to be able to shew themselves by lineage, and had to pass through an investigation, to continue in their role as priests of God. Christians are kings and priests, a royal priesthood, and we have come out of the captivity. This is seen throughout the whole of scripture [KJB]:

The Scriptures from Genesis to Revelation reveal in type and in Prophecy this great end-time Investigative Judgment, and in Exodus 28:15,29,30 KJB we see the breastplate upon the Highpriest, is called “the breastplate of judgment”.

In Daniel 7, we see God the Father sitting in judgment, with the books of records being opened, and the angels ministering and searching the records, with Jesus present.

In Daniel 12, we see Michael/Jesus standing up, after the searching of the record books of Heaven, and the book of Lifeof the Lamb have been searched and read

In Zechariah 3, we see an investigative judgment, taking place in the Most Holy Place on the day of atonement, with Joshua the High priest.

In Malachi 3, we see God sitting as a refiner, in judgment over his children.

In the Gospels, Jesus himself came to see/investigate/judge Israel, before the execution of Judgment.

In the Gospels, the disciples themselves were sifted, and we can even see this futher with Peter in the courtyard of the Highpriest, with Jesus in the upper room, and so on.

In Matthew 18, we see God taking account of his servants, who had at one point received forgiveness, but later had it revoked.

In Romans 2:13-16, we read of the future judgment of all men, including their secrets by Jesus

In 2 Corinthians 5:10, we read of all having to appear before the judgment seat of Christ

In Hebrews 9, we see this judgment was to begin with the dead, in the time of judgment.

In 1 Peter 4, we see that God, at the time of Peter, was “ready” to judge, and would begin at the time specified in Daniel and in Leviticus 16 & 23.

In Jude 1:15, we read of Jesus second advent to render and to “execute judgment” that was determined beforehand in the investigation.

In Revelation 3:10, 17:12, we see a specific testing of the living professing, that comes after the dead professed [Hebrews 9:27]

In Revelation 11, we see that the very Church, the Temple of God, was to be measured, sometime after the 1,260 years of Daniel.

In Revelation 14, we see the very first Angel's message declare that the time of judgment had begun, and was going forward while the Everlasting Gospel was still being preached.

… and so on.

Notice, that when the Ancient of Days [the person of the Father] sat, multiple thrones were also placed, wherein the angels [which 10,000 etc surrounded Him] also sat, and books were opened. This judgment is for the angels to look into, because they cannot read the human heart as God can, and thus they need to see for themselves that God's judgments were right on who is to be let into a place without sin [Heaven]. The timing of the sequence in Daniel 7 [as shown in context and in chiastic structure, etc] reveals that this phase of judgment takes place after the rise of Rome and its divisions, and before the second advent, and the kingdom come. It is unbreakable in its order. The judgment therein is even taking place while the little horn is still blaspheming on earth, before it is destroyed, before the number of the kingdom of Heaven is made up.

In Daniel 7 is in 4 main parts.

Daniel 7:1-14 KJB the vision of Daniel
Daniel 7:15-18 KJB the super summary of the whole vision by Gabriel [even vss 17,18]
Daniel 7:19-22 KJB Daniel asking about it again, and a specific
Daniel 7:23-28 KJB Gabriel, once more going over the whole in more detail

Thus Daniel, Gabriel, Daniel, Gabriel. Each portion intimately tied to the other, so that the timing thereof cannot be broken between each section.

Daniel 7:22 KJB - Until the Ancient of days came, and judgment was given to the saints of the most High; and the time came that the saints possessed the kingdom.

Until [refers to the previous time portion in earlier verse, the leading up to 1844, thus the 1,260 years, 538-1798]

Ancient of Days came, and did sit [refers to 1844 until the close of probation]

judgment was given to the saints of the most High [refers to 1,000 years, see Rev 20:4, "given unto", see also Paul, know ye not that the saints will judge angels [fallen], the world [lost].]

and the time came [end of the 1,000 years, see Rev. 20, Isaiah 24, etc] that the saints posesses the kingdom [being New Heaven and New Earth]

In Ezekiel 1-9, shows the same, wherein a investigative judgment goes forward, and then execution of that judgment takes place after, beginning with the elders of the temple/sanctuary on down to the least.

A very important text to consider:

Proverbs 28:5 KJB - Evil men understand not judgment: but they that seek the LORD understand all things.

Perhaps it is the word "Investigative" that is the issue with so many, since they cannot seem to find it in the KJB, but perhaps if they might look in the many other English translations to which they themselves trust in:

For instance, Daniel 9:10 - Daniel 7:10 - Bible Gateway -

[MSG] - “As I was watching all this, “Thrones were set in place and The Old One sat down. His robes were white as snow, his hair was white like wool. His throne was flaming with fire, its wheels blazing. A river of fire poured out of the throne. Thousands upon thousands served him, tens of thousands attended him. The courtroom was called to order, and the books were opened.

[NOG] - "A river of fire flowed. It came from him. Thousands and thousands served him. Ten thousand times ten thousand were stationed in front of him. The court convened, and the books were opened."

[ISV] - "A river of fire flowed out from before him. Thousands upon thousands were serving him, with millions upon millions waiting before him. The court sat in judgment, and record books were unsealed."

[GNT] - "and a stream of fire was pouring out from it. There were many thousands of people there to serve him, and millions of people stood before him. The court began its session, and the books were opened."


etc ...

God gave us a type of how God operates in Heaven:

Deuteronomy 13:14 KJB - Then shalt thou enquire, and make search, and ask diligently; and, behold, if it be truth, and the thing certain, that such abomination is wrought among you;

Deuteronomy 13:14 - Deuteronomy 13:14 - Bible Gateway

[AMP] - "then you shall investigate and search out [witnesses] and ask thorough questions. If it is true and the matter is established that this loathsome thing has been done among you,"

[CSB] - "you are to inquire, investigate, and interrogate thoroughly. If the report turns out to be true that this detestable act has been done among you,"

[HCSB] - "you are to inquire, investigate, and interrogate thoroughly. If the report turns out to be true that this detestable thing has happened among you,"

etc., etc. ...

Deuteronomy 19:18 KJB - And the judges shall make diligent inquisition: and, behold, if the witness be a false witness, and hath testified falsely against his brother;

Deuteronomy 19:18 - Deuteronomy 19:18 - Bible Gateway

[AMP] - "The judges shall investigate thoroughly, and if the witness is a false witness, and he has accused his brother falsely,"

[CSB] - "The judges are to make a careful investigation, and if the witness turns out to be a liar who has falsely accused his brother,"

[CJB] - "The judges are to investigate carefully. If they find that the witness is lying and has given false testimony against his brother,"

[HCSB] - "The judges are to make a careful investigation, and if the witness turns out to be a liar who has falsely accused his brother,"

etc, etc ...

Even, at least one, use the exact word:

[OJB] - "thought it expedient also, having done an iyun (investigative research), accurately and carefully being meayen (engaged in research) in every source and making a medakdeke (pain-stakingly thorough) investigation of every aspect from HaReshit (the Beginning), to write for you and to mesader (arrange, place in succession) an orderly account, most noble Theophilus,"
What will these people say, when God asks them why they did not believe, and why they taught contrary to His word?

Psalms 9:12 KJB - When he maketh inquisition for blood, he remembereth them: he forgetteth not the cry of the humble.

God is already making inquisition, an investigation, for blood, upon all those of the past who have professed His name, and will He find "blood" on their garments, on their hands, will He find the blood of others upon them? Soon, God will turn from those who have died in profession to those living ...
 
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BobRyan said:
I prefer to stay with the topic of the thread - and to continue pointing out what the Bible says - even if someone does not want to read that part of the Bible.



I love the fact that you interpret "stick with what the Bible says" as a statement in favor of what Ellen White wrote.

It is rather heart warming to think that a Baptist would do that.
I was just saying that you have NO opinions on scripture other than what EW said!
 
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The Bible [KJB] doctrine is still called the Investigative Judgment by true Seventh-day Adventists:

The saints do not get to escape judgment, though they have an Advocate, Jesus Christ the Righteous:

Psalms 7:11 KJB - God judgeth the righteous, and God is angry [with the wicked] every day.

Psalms 37:33 KJB - The LORD will not leave him in his hand, nor condemn him when he is judged.

Ecclesiastes 3:17 KJB - I said in mine heart, God shall judge the righteous and the wicked: for there is a time there for every purpose and for every work.

Ecclesiastes 12:14 KJB - For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether [it be] good, or whether [it be] evil.

The record books in Heaven already kindly posted online - COL 2:14-17 The REAL truth from God's Word

The investigative judgment is found in type and in prophecy throughout the whole of scripture [KJB]:

In Genesis 2 & 3, we see Eve being deceived into sin, though Adam was warned, and He having warned her, and Adam following in sin, and then "they heard the voice of the LORD God walking in the garden in the cool of the day", and God ['Jesus'] investigates, inquiring and asking questions [Genesis 3:9-19; not that God doesn't know, but it is for the benefit of the angels and Adam/Eve and us], having already warned man of the sentence for sin [Genesis 2:17], and then God carries out sentence, but also gives hope [Genesis 3:15].

In Genesis 4, we see Cain and Abel, which both claimed to worship God, yet one was a son of that wicked one, satan. When Abel was killed by Cain, God came down and asked/inquired/investigated of Cain, before sentence was carried out.

In Genesis 6-9, we see that the world was becoming wicked, and while many claimed to follow God, they were already inter-marrying with the children of Cain. God looks upon the world in investigation, before execution of Judgment by the Flood.

In Genesis 10-11, we see that the people again rebelled, and God came down to see and look and investigate, before the execution of Judgment in the separation of the languages.

In Genesis 17-19, we see that God had delivered the people of Lot and Sodom, and yet Sodom did not truly repent, and went further in rebellion, and God came down to see/investigate/judge before execution of Judgment. ...etc...

In Leviticus 16 & 23, we see that Israel, and all that claimed to follow God, was to enter into the time of the typical Day of Atonement, wherein the Priest bore into the Sanctuary, upon the Breast plate of Judgment the people, represented by the stones. Anyone found not to be in harmony with God, in true repentance, was to be cut off at the end of it.

In 1 Kings 3, we see Solomon [type of Christ] having an investigation between two persons [women] over a dead Child [Christ], and a living Child [Christ] to see who really loved the Child. Solomon investigates in a judgment setting upon His throne, and gives a test, and a sentence testing the loyalty of the True mother [true Church, worshippers] and the corruption of heart of the false mother [false church, worshippers].

In Ezra 2, we see an investigative judgment in type:

Ezra 2:61 KJB - And of the children of the priests: the children of Habaiah, the children of Koz, the children of Barzillai; which took a wife of the daughters of Barzillai the Gileadite, and was called after their name:

Ezra 2:62 KJB - These sought their register among those that were reckoned by genealogy, but they were not found: therefore were they, as polluted, put from the priesthood.

Ezra 2:63 KJB - And the Tirshatha said unto them, that they should not eat of the most holy things, till there stood up a priest with Urim and with Thummim.

All of those priests coming back from the captivity of Babylon, had to be able to shew themselves by lineage, and had to pass through an investigation, to continue in their role as priests of God. Christians are kings and priests, a royal priesthood, and we have come out of the captivity. This is seen throughout the whole of scripture [KJB]:

The Scriptures from Genesis to Revelation reveal in type and in Prophecy this great end-time Investigative Judgment, and in Exodus 28:15,29,30 KJB we see the breastplate upon the Highpriest, is called “the breastplate of judgment”.

In Daniel 7, we see God the Father sitting in judgment, with the books of records being opened, and the angels ministering and searching the records, with Jesus present.

In Daniel 12, we see Michael/Jesus standing up, after the searching of the record books of Heaven, and the book of Lifeof the Lamb have been searched and read

In Zechariah 3, we see an investigative judgment, taking place in the Most Holy Place on the day of atonement, with Joshua the High priest.

In Malachi 3, we see God sitting as a refiner, in judgment over his children.

In the Gospels, Jesus himself came to see/investigate/judge Israel, before the execution of Judgment.

In the Gospels, the disciples themselves were sifted, and we can even see this futher with Peter in the courtyard of the Highpriest, with Jesus in the upper room, and so on.

In Matthew 18, we see God taking account of his servants, who had at one point received forgiveness, but later had it revoked.

In Romans 2:13-16, we read of the future judgment of all men, including their secrets by Jesus

In 2 Corinthians 5:10, we read of all having to appear before the judgment seat of Christ

In Hebrews 9, we see this judgment was to begin with the dead, in the time of judgment.

In 1 Peter 4, we see that God, at the time of Peter, was “ready” to judge, and would begin at the time specified in Daniel and in Leviticus 16 & 23.

In Jude 1:15, we read of Jesus second advent to render and to “execute judgment” that was determined beforehand in the investigation.

In Revelation 3:10, 17:12, we see a specific testing of the living professing, that comes after the dead professed [Hebrews 9:27]

In Revelation 11, we see that the very Church, the Temple of God, was to be measured, sometime after the 1,260 years of Daniel.

In Revelation 14, we see the very first Angel's message declare that the time of judgment had begun, and was going forward while the Everlasting Gospel was still being preached.

… and so on.

Notice, that when the Ancient of Days [the person of the Father] sat, multiple thrones were also placed, wherein the angels [which 10,000 etc surrounded Him] also sat, and books were opened. This judgment is for the angels to look into, because they cannot read the human heart as God can, and thus they need to see for themselves that God's judgments were right on who is to be let into a place without sin [Heaven]. The timing of the sequence in Daniel 7 [as shown in context and in chiastic structure, etc] reveals that this phase of judgment takes place after the rise of Rome and its divisions, and before the second advent, and the kingdom come. It is unbreakable in its order. The judgment therein is even taking place while the little horn is still blaspheming on earth, before it is destroyed, before the number of the kingdom of Heaven is made up.

In Daniel 7 is in 4 main parts.

Daniel 7:1-14 KJB the vision of Daniel
Daniel 7:15-18 KJB the super summary of the whole vision by Gabriel [even vss 17,18]
Daniel 7:19-22 KJB Daniel asking about it again, and a specific
Daniel 7:23-28 KJB Gabriel, once more going over the whole in more detail

Thus Daniel, Gabriel, Daniel, Gabriel. Each portion intimately tied to the other, so that the timing thereof cannot be broken between each section.

Daniel 7:22 KJB - Until the Ancient of days came, and judgment was given to the saints of the most High; and the time came that the saints possessed the kingdom.

Until [refers to the previous time portion in earlier verse, the leading up to 1844, thus the 1,260 years, 538-1798]

Ancient of Days came, and did sit [refers to 1844 until the close of probation]

judgment was given to the saints of the most High [refers to 1,000 years, see Rev 20:4, "given unto", see also Paul, know ye not that the saints will judge angels [fallen], the world [lost].]

and the time came [end of the 1,000 years, see Rev. 20, Isaiah 24, etc] that the saints posesses the kingdom [being New Heaven and New Earth]

In Ezekiel 1-9, shows the same, wherein a investigative judgment goes forward, and then execution of that judgment takes place after, beginning with the elders of the temple/sanctuary on down to the least.

A very important text to consider:

Proverbs 28:5 KJB - Evil men understand not judgment: but they that seek the LORD understand all things.

Perhaps it is the word "Investigative" that is the issue with so many, since they cannot seem to find it in the KJB, but perhaps if they might look in the many other English translations to which they themselves trust in:

For instance, Daniel 9:10 - Daniel 7:10 - Bible Gateway -

[MSG] - “As I was watching all this, “Thrones were set in place and The Old One sat down. His robes were white as snow, his hair was white like wool. His throne was flaming with fire, its wheels blazing. A river of fire poured out of the throne. Thousands upon thousands served him, tens of thousands attended him. The courtroom was called to order, and the books were opened.

[NOG] - "A river of fire flowed. It came from him. Thousands and thousands served him. Ten thousand times ten thousand were stationed in front of him. The court convened, and the books were opened."

[ISV] - "A river of fire flowed out from before him. Thousands upon thousands were serving him, with millions upon millions waiting before him. The court sat in judgment, and record books were unsealed."

[GNT] - "and a stream of fire was pouring out from it. There were many thousands of people there to serve him, and millions of people stood before him. The court began its session, and the books were opened."


etc ...

God gave us a type of how God operates in Heaven:

Deuteronomy 13:14 KJB - Then shalt thou enquire, and make search, and ask diligently; and, behold, if it be truth, and the thing certain, that such abomination is wrought among you;

Deuteronomy 13:14 - Deuteronomy 13:14 - Bible Gateway

[AMP] - "then you shall investigate and search out [witnesses] and ask thorough questions. If it is true and the matter is established that this loathsome thing has been done among you,"

[CSB] - "you are to inquire, investigate, and interrogate thoroughly. If the report turns out to be true that this detestable act has been done among you,"

[HCSB] - "you are to inquire, investigate, and interrogate thoroughly. If the report turns out to be true that this detestable thing has happened among you,"

etc., etc. ...

Deuteronomy 19:18 KJB - And the judges shall make diligent inquisition: and, behold, if the witness be a false witness, and hath testified falsely against his brother;

Deuteronomy 19:18 - Deuteronomy 19:18 - Bible Gateway

[AMP] - "The judges shall investigate thoroughly, and if the witness is a false witness, and he has accused his brother falsely,"

[CSB] - "The judges are to make a careful investigation, and if the witness turns out to be a liar who has falsely accused his brother,"

[CJB] - "The judges are to investigate carefully. If they find that the witness is lying and has given false testimony against his brother,"

[HCSB] - "The judges are to make a careful investigation, and if the witness turns out to be a liar who has falsely accused his brother,"

etc, etc ...

Even, at least one, use the exact word:

[OJB] - "thought it expedient also, having done an iyun (investigative research), accurately and carefully being meayen (engaged in research) in every source and making a medakdeke (pain-stakingly thorough) investigation of every aspect from HaReshit (the Beginning), to write for you and to mesader (arrange, place in succession) an orderly account, most noble Theophilus,"
What will these people say, when God asks them why they did not believe, and why they taught contrary to His word?

Psalms 9:12 KJB - When he maketh inquisition for blood, he remembereth them: he forgetteth not the cry of the humble.

God is already making inquisition, an investigation, for blood, upon all those of the past who have professed His name, and will He find "blood" on their garments, on their hands, will He find the blood of others upon them? Soon, God will turn from those who have died in profession to those living ...
ALL saved stand before Jesus, give an account of our lives after salvation to Him, for the purpose of eternal rewards or losses, NONE lose eternal life there!
 
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If you decided to now follow Sunday worship and not following Sda doctrines, wouid you still make Heaven?

Why would I do that??

Are you proposing "alternate universe"??

If you choose to do that, would you still be saved or not?

You appear to be unable to answer the question.. I am asking for actual "logic" or "reason" that would lead to your wild scenario.
 
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I was just saying that you have NO opinions on scripture other than what EW said!

Indeed you are great at creative writing and false scenarios...

I prefer the Bible. To each his own. Carry on.
 
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Why would I do that??

Are you proposing "alternate universe"??



You appear to be unable to answer the question.. I am asking for actual "logic" or "reason" that would lead to your wild scenario.
If someone other than you decided to do that, would they still be saved or not?
 
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Indeed you are great at creative writing and false scenarios...

I prefer the Bible. To each his own. Carry on.
The Bible as interpreted by Ellen White!
I prefer as illuminated by the Holy Spirit unto us!
 
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That is what I said, and demonstrated from OT King Saul, and NT Ananias and Sapphira, which you do not address contextually, at all. You ignored what I presented, and instead went on a circle chase, which when I address you will move onto yet another text, instead of dealing with the first response and this response. Please be advised I have all of the so-called OSAS 'go-to' texts, and have complete contextual material on each. Therefore, please address the first post, and we can get to all the others as needful.

I understand, but you ignored responding to the material I provided, and simply went on a circle chase.



Do you understand that "believeth" (KJB) is a verb; πιστευωνG4100 V-PAP-NSM (verb-present-active-participle-nominative-singular-masculine). It is an action word, yes? Do you understand that it is not a 'one time' action? That it is to be a continuous (on going by choice) action?

Thus it is not an "I believe" and that's an end of it (that is the start of it, a "born again" (a brand new child, but that child must feed and grow and trust), but it is to be a daily, moment by moment "belief", a continual hold on Christ Jesus.

Notice the context of Moses and the Serpent. Some believed didn't they? Yet did all enter the promised land, and continue to believe? See 1 Corinthians 10, which speaks of the "written for our adminition".

Thus this passage does not contradict what was shared with you on King Saul, nor Ananias and Sapphira, nor against what was presented to you in Hebrews 6, etc. The person who believes, can always, of their own free will, cease (by choice) to believe. They do not have to cease to believe, but they can always choose to do so. Salvation is a marriage. It begins with "I do" (believe), but that is not the end, but the beginning. This passage doesn't support OSAS, but what was already shared. God's word says:

1Co_7:15 But if the unbelieving depart, let him depart. A brother or a sister is not under bondage in such cases: but God hath called us to peace.

This applies also to the relationship between the beleiver and Christ Jesus.



Indeed, so long as the person "believes" (based on faith, thus conditional, not unconditional), but once the person decides to cease to believe, Christ Jesus (though pleading in love) does not force anyone to remain who wants to leave.



In John 10:28-29; The word "pluck" is again the Koine Greek αρπασειG726 V-FAI-3S, "Harpazo" and it means "to forcefully take away, to snatch away by might/power", and no one is saying that anyone can do so. The person always has the ability/choice to leave of their own free will.

How did the Devil get Man to sin, did He forcibly take Man [Adam and Eve] from God, or was it through deception, and drawing away?

Look at the other texts that the word "pluck" is used, which is how actual Bible study is done, instead of what is being done - http://www.bluelette...ongs=G726&t=KJV

"take Him [Jesus] by force" - John 6:15

"the wolf catcheth them" - John 10:12

"the Spirit of the LORD caught away Philip" - Acts 8:39

"to take him [Paul] by force" - Acts 23:10

etc.

Therefore John 10:28-29, read that "no [man] can take them by force out of my hand... Father's hand."; and therefore is in complete harmony with the other texts of Scripture which declare that we may be "drawn away":

But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed. James 1:14

Notice the context, that the victory only goes to those that "endureth temptation" [James 1:12] and overcome in Christ Jesus by the Power/Grace of the Holy Spirit. Notice again James give the sure warning, "Do not err, my beloved brethren." James 1:16 and "But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves." James 1:22, for we can be self-deceived. We can be "drawn away" from God, of our own desires, and "enticed" to leave God altogether for the deceptions of satan. That is why the warning is given all over the Scripture, Satan can "devour" us! OSAS is the deception of the devil that he may pick off the arrogant, the presumptuous ones of God's grace, which take it to mean that no matter what one does that they cannot lose out. What a foolish and utterly hypocritical notion! Satan will kill us dead, and all it takes is to move out from under the protection of God, by choosing other than His will [Psalms 40:8], etc. Though all men are tempted, God makes a away of escape, that we might not sin [1 John 3:4], but we have to choose to take it. God does not choose for us.

Just as the Israelites were the "ensamples" [types] [1 Corinthians 10:11] for us, as they were just upon the borders of entering in, they were ensnared of the enemy, and were destroyed! Do not we see the real danger of the same unto our own soul?! They could turn away from God, even as we, by our own free choice that God gave unto us. We would then be using the power of the choice that God gave us to refuse God.

For if ye turn away from after him, he will yet again leave them in the wilderness; and ye shall destroy all this people. Numbers 32:15

But if thine heart turn away, so that thou wilt not hear, but shalt be drawn away, and worship other gods, and serve them; Deuteronomy 30:17

I denounce unto you this day, that ye shall surely perish, and that ye shall not prolong your days upon the land, whither thou passest over Jordan to go to possess it. Deuteronomy 30:18

Some say Israel had a different relationship to God. No, read 1 Corinthians 10, they had the Lamb, they had the Baptism, they had the Bread, they had all that we have, including the Water [Holy Spirit] from the Rock [Christ Jesus]. King Saul himself, was "...turned into another man." [1 Samuel 10:6] by the Holy Spirit, and yet he is forever lost, "rejected" of God, because he continually refused to repent, after a time of walking with the Lord, to listen to Him any longer and grieved away the Holy Spirit [“the Spirit of the LORD departed from Saul” 1 Samuel 16:14; & "the LORD ... was departed from Saul" 1 Samuel 18:12].

See that ye refuse not him that speaketh. For if they escaped not who refused him that spake on earth, much more shall not we escape, if we turn away from him that speaketh from heaven: Hebrews 12:25

I desire to see all safe from any of that, and standing upon the sure Word, not a vain and hopeless, No matter what one does, that it cannot affect our standing before God. That was one of the very same lies of Lucifer in Heaven ["iniquitous traffick"]. Paul knew and warned others, and feared:

But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway. 1 Corinthians 9:27

"castaway" means "unapproved, unfit, reprobate" - http://www.bluelette...rongs=G96&t=KJV

Shall we not hear the Word plead with us?:

For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, Hebrews 6:4

And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, Hebrews 6:5

If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame. Hebrews 6:6

...

But that which beareth thorns and briers is rejected, and is nigh unto cursing; whose end is to be burned. Hebrews 6:8

That word "rejected" is the very same word Paul used in 1 Corinthians 9:27 for "castaway", and even as Jesus said, as the branch that did not abide in the Vine, it will wither, and be good for nothing, but to be gathered and thrown into the fire...

Some think that being “born again” is immutable protection against being lost.

Why do they think that "born again" means apart from obedience to the Law of God [Acts 5:32; john 14:15; Exodus 20:6, Hebrews 5:9, Romans 6:16 Revelation 12:17; 14:12; 22:14, etc], yet God is 'restoring' [Acts 3:21; "restitution"] us to what we would have been before sin of Adam, getting back that face to face [1 Corinthians 13:12] relationship that Mankind had with God before sin [1 John 3:4], separated us from God, which is why it is called "redemption" [to purchase back again what was lost].



True. That is why it is very serious business. Hebrews 6, etc is clear.

Indeed. Eternal matters are at the heart of it. Very good, most people do not see what you just saw.



The two things are exclusive of each other. The scriptures must be acccepted, which teach that salvation can be 'lost' (given up, turned away from after being accepted).

Will you accept what scripture has said then, will you accept what has been shared now, or will you attempt to go to yet another scripture, which I will tell you in advance cannot help OSAS, but will demonstrate the futility of that dangerous doctrine.

May I say to you that if you think that sarcasm or attitude is going to overpower those who disagree with you, I or anyone else is going to go through ALL of the stuff you posted, you will be waiting for a long time my friend.

I will respond to ONE thing you said...…………
"Will you accept what scripture has said then, will you accept what has been shared now, or will you attempt to go to yet another scripture, which I will tell you in advance cannot help OSAS, but will demonstrate the futility of that dangerous doctrine. "

I for one can not change your opinions. I can only post what the Scriptures say.
You are free to believe any false doctrine you choose to and if you choose to live in the despair and depression of NOT KNOWING you are heaven bound, then God bless you my friend.

John 3:36......
"He that BELIEVETH on the Son hath everlasting life:. . ."

John 3:16...….
"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever BELIEVETH in him should not perish, but have everlasting life."

1 John 5:13...……..
"These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that YE HAVE ETERNAL LIFE,. . ."

john 5:24...…...
"Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, HATH EVERLASTING LIFE,. . ."
 
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YeshuaFan

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May I say to you that if you think that sarcasm or attitude is going to overpower those who disagree with you, I or anyone else is going to go through ALL of the stuff you posted, you will be waiting for a long time my friend.

I will respond to ONE thing you said...…………
"Will you accept what scripture has said then, will you accept what has been shared now, or will you attempt to go to yet another scripture, which I will tell you in advance cannot help OSAS, but will demonstrate the futility of that dangerous doctrine. "

I for one can not change your opinions. I can only post what the Scriptures say.
You are free to believe any false doctrine you choose to and if you choose to live in the despair and depression of NOT KNOWING you are heaven bound, then God bless you my friend.

John 3:36......
"He that BELIEVETH on the Son hath everlasting life:. . ."

John 3:16...….
"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever BELIEVETH in him should not perish, but have everlasting life."

1 John 5:13...……..
"These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that YE HAVE ETERNAL LIFE,. . ."

john 5:24...…...
"Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, HATH EVERLASTING LIFE,. . ."
Jesus conforms that ALL whom the father have given to Him to get saved shall ALL be raised up by Him, and NONE of them lost. I trust Him over Ellen White on this issue!
 
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Major1

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Read the actual Bible.

1 John 2:2 - "Christ is the atoning SACRIFICE for our sins and not for our sins only but for the sins of the whole world".

Notice that in Lev 16 "DAY of Atonement" God says that BOTH the work of Christ as "lamb of God" (sin offering) AND the Work of Christ as High Priest ("the MAIN point" Hebrews 8:1) are required for the full Gospel scope of the term "Atonement" to be addressed.

Bible details matter.

You seem to be desiring a need for Bible study and exegesis as you keep telling us to Read the Bible.

Wonderful. Lets do just that Bob.

You Posted 1 John 2:2...……..
"Christ is the atoning SACRIFICE for our sins and not for our sins only but for the sins of the whole world".

First of all, you should have included verse #1 as it validates that Jesus Christ is the character in view. That is called CONTEXUAL exegesis.

ESV Study Bible says Hilasmos "here means 'a sacrifice that bears God's wrath and turns it to favor" which is "also the meaning of the English word propitiation."

The term propitiation, in definition and application, is most notably a biblical and theological word. It is a translation of hilasmos, which means “appeasement,” or “satisfaction.” Christ’s sacrificial death on the cross satisfied the demands of God’s justice, thus appeasing His holy wrath against believers’ sins.

Reformed people argue that if Christ’s death actually paid for the sins of every person who ever lived, then there is no penalty left for anyone to pay, and it necessarily follows that all people will be saved, without exception.
Sources: 1 John 2:1-6 Commentary | Precept Austin

YES, Leviticus 16 is all about Jesus and His work on the cross. Leviticus 16 is about the Day of Atonement. Under the Old Testament Law, the Israelites were to bring two goats to the temple on the Day of Atonement. These goats would serve two distinct purposes.

The first goat served as the people’s propitiation, which meant that the goat would die as the only just penalty for the sin of Israel. The Law declares that sin must be atoned for through the shedding of blood. God was gracious enough that He allowed the Israelites to kill a goat instead of He killing them.

The second goat would be the people’s expiation. This means that he would take their sins away from them. (For example: If someone murders someone, they might go to jail and serve their sentence. But when they get out, are they still a murderer? Yes! Expiation serves to remove this label from the people.) After the second goat, the people were freed from the titles of their sins.

Jesus is the fulfillment of the Old Testament Law. While the goats served as a yearly sacrifice to bring atonement for the people of God, Jesus sacrificed would be good enough to last through eternity. In His death, He would become the eternal propitiation and expiation for the children of God. He has paid the penalty in full, bearing the weight of the world’s sin upon His shoulders. He is our propitiation, dying the death we should have died. He is also our expiation. Though I have lied and done many sins in my life, before God, I am no longer labeled a “liar” because the Lord has taken my sins and separated them from me.

Leviticus 16 was written with the expressed purpose of one day glorifying the Lord’s death on a cross. The Law affected many things in between, but the primary purpose was to glorify Jesus and show us that everything is oriented around Him. Leviticus 16 is all about Jesus.
Source:Leviticus is about Jesus
 
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Major1

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Since my view is that the TEN Commandments are in the moral law of God written on the heart under the NEW Covenant - and this is exactly what "Baptist Confession of Faith" as expanded by C.H. Spurgeon in the 1800's also admits.

Read it.



So then "instead of just me posting it" -- YOU also go around insisting that "ALL TEN of the Ten commandments are included in the moral law of God written on the heart under the NEW Covenant"??

YOU also post that the 7th day Bible Sabbath began in Eden and applied to all mankind from the very start???

Seriously? You are asking us to believe that?

The BCoF argues that the 4th commandment starts off in Eden as the actual 7th day Sabbath -- but then gets "bent" to point to week-day-1... but other than that it is unchanged.. and THIS is what YOU have also been posting?? Seriously? you can point us to one of your posts doing that??

Jesus accomplished in the new covenant what the old covenant was not adequate to do – defeat sin.

The old covenant proved that sin was more powerful than the law. As soon as the law in the old covenant said, “Thou shalt not…” mankind could not resist temptation and the power of sin.

Thus, Israel ultimately broke the covenant. Sin overpowered mankind, but Jesus overpowered sin. Israel was enslaved to sin, just as they had been enslaved to Egypt hundreds of years earlier. Just as Moses (who was given the written old covenant) was the savior for Israel from captivity in Egypt; now Jesus (who was mediator of new covenant) was the Savour for Israel (and all people) from captivity to sin.

The law’s purpose was to expose sin (old covenant). Jesus purpose was to defeat sin (new covenant).
 
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Major1

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Jesus conforms that ALL whom the father have given to Him to get saved shall ALL be raised up by Him, and NONE of them lost. I trust Him over Ellen White on this issue!

Me too!
 
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YeshuaFan

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You seem to be desiring a need for Bible study and exegesis as you keep telling us to Read the Bible.

Wonderful. Lets do just that Bob.

You Posted 1 John 2:2...……..
"Christ is the atoning SACRIFICE for our sins and not for our sins only but for the sins of the whole world".

First of all, you should have included verse #1 as it validates that Jesus Christ is the character in view. That is called CONTEXUAL exegesis.

ESV Study Bible says Hilasmos "here means 'a sacrifice that bears God's wrath and turns it to favor" which is "also the meaning of the English word propitiation."

The term propitiation, in definition and application, is most notably a biblical and theological word. It is a translation of hilasmos, which means “appeasement,” or “satisfaction.” Christ’s sacrificial death on the cross satisfied the demands of God’s justice, thus appeasing His holy wrath against believers’ sins.

Reformed people argue that if Christ’s death actually paid for the sins of every person who ever lived, then there is no penalty left for anyone to pay, and it necessarily follows that all people will be saved, without exception.
Sources: 1 John 2:1-6 Commentary | Precept Austin

YES, Leviticus 16 is all about Jesus and His work on the cross. Leviticus 16 is about the Day of Atonement. Under the Old Testament Law, the Israelites were to bring two goats to the temple on the Day of Atonement. These goats would serve two distinct purposes.

The first goat served as the people’s propitiation, which meant that the goat would die as the only just penalty for the sin of Israel. The Law declares that sin must be atoned for through the shedding of blood. God was gracious enough that He allowed the Israelites to kill a goat instead of He killing them.

The second goat would be the people’s expiation. This means that he would take their sins away from them. (For example: If someone murders someone, they might go to jail and serve their sentence. But when they get out, are they still a murderer? Yes! Expiation serves to remove this label from the people.) After the second goat, the people were freed from the titles of their sins.

Jesus is the fulfillment of the Old Testament Law. While the goats served as a yearly sacrifice to bring atonement for the people of God, Jesus sacrificed would be good enough to last through eternity. In His death, He would become the eternal propitiation and expiation for the children of God. He has paid the penalty in full, bearing the weight of the world’s sin upon His shoulders. He is our propitiation, dying the death we should have died. He is also our expiation. Though I have lied and done many sins in my life, before God, I am no longer labeled a “liar” because the Lord has taken my sins and separated them from me.

Leviticus 16 was written with the expressed purpose of one day glorifying the Lord’s death on a cross. The Law affected many things in between, but the primary purpose was to glorify Jesus and show us that everything is oriented around Him. Leviticus 16 is all about Jesus.
Source:Leviticus is about Jesus
Was the death of Jesus sufficient to be able to atone for and save all lost sinners? Yes, but God the Father intended it to be applied towards and save only His elect chosen in Christ!
 
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Jesus accomplished in the new covenant what the old covenant was not adequate to do – defeat sin.

The old covenant proved that sin was more powerful than the law. As soon as the law in the old covenant said, “Thou shalt not…” mankind could not resist temptation and the power of sin.

Thus, Israel ultimately broke the covenant. Sin overpowered mankind, but Jesus overpowered sin. Israel was enslaved to sin, just as they had been enslaved to Egypt hundreds of years earlier. Just as Moses (who was given the written old covenant) was the savior for Israel from captivity in Egypt; now Jesus (who was mediator of new covenant) was the Savour for Israel (and all people) from captivity to sin.

The law’s purpose was to expose sin (old covenant). Jesus purpose was to defeat sin (new covenant).
Sda is much like the Church of Rome, still stuck under Law, and trying to be an OT church, but we now have the New Covenant of Grace!
 
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