Joyce Meyer

messianist said:

women are not permitted to teach.

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She doesn't teach. She expounds.

messianist said:

Having a gift on of foretelling things to come. Is completely different to teaching doctrine.
Teaching is speech that explains and applies what God has revealed. Teaching provides instruction not revelation.

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Teaching, in 1st century parlance, is authority, not merely the conveyance of information.

"Instruction," if you want to get technical, also includes authority.

RDKirk said:

Teaching, in 1st century parlance, is authority, not merely the conveyance of information.

"Instruction," if you want to get technical, also includes authority.

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She is attempting to teach without authority.

messianist said:

She is attempting to teach without authority.

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She is not teaching, she is expounding.

RDKirk said:

She is not teaching, she is expounding.

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she is attempting to teach without authority.

I immediatly get the sense more then one here does niether ,nor is engaged in Any form of the Gospel in a practicle manner.

Why do people think the NT is a new book of leviticus?

The wonderful thing is the almighty knows everyone's thoughts deeds and intentions on all matters.

Apart from what people say and teach, I look for GOD's actions to verify the truth The Holy Spirit is leading me with.

Has GOD witnessed to a woman's ministry in history? Yes! Read up on Maria Woodworth Etter's ministry, the sheer amount of evidence sent in from those that testified of healing is just overwhelming. I've never seen anything like it before. She must of walked in an amazing anointing from The Father, way stronger than others like Smith Wigglesworth and such,... I'm not even joking here fellas.

She went across America as an evangelist, and GOD witnessed in amazing power to her ministry she said she had. Obviously, if the word of GOD meant that no woman, whatsoever, would ever operate in a position of authority with Him, there would never be a demonstration of power through one.

Read the historical accounts. There's no way anyone that is honest about this will ever say that GOD was not moving through her in power.

ARBITER01 said:

Apart from what people say and teach, I look for GOD's actions to verify the truth The Holy Spirit is leading me with.

Has GOD witnessed to a woman's ministry in history? Yes! Read up on Maria Woodworth Etter's ministry, the sheer amount of evidence sent in from those that testified of healing is just overwhelming. I've never seen anything like it before. She must of walked in an amazing anointing from The Father, way stronger than others like Smith Wigglesworth and such,... I'm not even joking here fellas.

She went across America as an evangelist, and GOD witnessed in amazing power to her ministry she said she had. Obviously, if the word of GOD meant that no woman, whatsoever, would ever operate in a position of authority with Him, there would never be a demonstration of power through one.

Read the historical accounts. There's no way anyone that is honest about this will ever say that GOD was not moving through her in power.

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The only error here is the words "her ministry"
Why people want to name it i dont know.

Alithis said:

Sure..one can preach it..in fact Any one can preach it... But practicing it has a very different look ...
And i think if we are honest , the look doesnt match the words preached..
... Giving all for JESUS..???

Now lets be fair..having excess is not sin
But the lord did say if you gain it here..your done. Youve received it already..you lose it there. Cant have it both ways.
His word is absolute in truth .
Have a Look ..Here..
(I chose this link because it Doesnt say anything personal.
It justs says facts of this is what she owns.

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The Bible also says that the worker is worthy of his hire. Most of her income is from book sales, the fruit of her own labors, of which she donates much to helping the poor. I notice that among the "excesses" are things like her offices and TV studio. Do you propose she manage her business from a park bench and make a professional TV program with a cell phone in a neighbor's garage?

Is it more spiritual for a relatively poor man to covet a successful man's earnings than for a rich man to have possessions he is willing to give up.

Joyce Meyer thanks God for all things that He has blessed her with, and if she is as honest as she seems she would also let go of all of it for God's honor. I believe that God means far more to her than all of her possessions. I'm not sure that I can truthfully say the same of myself, how about you?

jiminpa said:

The Bible also says that the worker is worthy of his hire. Most of her income is from book sales, the fruit of her own labors, of which she donates much to helping the poor. I notice that among the "excesses" are things like her offices and TV studio. Do you propose she manage her business from a park bench and make a professional TV program with a cell phone in a neighbor's garage?

Is it more spiritual for a relatively poor man to covet a successful man's earnings than for a rich man to have possessions he is willing to give up.

Joyce Meyer thanks God for all things that He has blessed her with, and if she is as honest as she seems she would also let go of all of it for God's honor. I believe that God means far more to her than all of her possessions. I'm not sure that I can truthfully say the same of myself, how about you?

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Its a perspective assessment..
$10 million private jets are excess .. people overlook the astronomical costs of maintaining and flying them.
Ie Her giving ..would have to exceed. Between$700,000 to 4 million a year (depending on the size of the jet.) Because thats the type of maintenance cost to have a private Jet.

The point is.. If your motive is to profit by way of the gospel then your motive becomes evident by its fruits ..
So when the giving outweighs the profits then that would be good fruit.
If the motive is to help people be freed by the Gospel then lodging clothes and food needs were met many many years ago.. Mansions are unrequired

But..if you scroll back you'll see that all i said was...
- what she preaches Vs how she lives... Is Not a good look.
And to be honest.. Its not. We all know thats a simple fact.

How that effects her life in God is up to GOD.
Jesus did say if you get your reward here ..youve had it already.

-how about me in respect to the things i own ... ?sold it all ..became a full time gospel worker trusting God to provide every day .
Presently sharing small quarters with a family of 6 where all things are considered the oroperty of all and the entire motive is to heal the sick preach the gospel drive out Devils baptize in jesus name and make more disciples teaching them to do the same.
We dont play Christianity on sunday.

Alithis said:

The only error here is the words "her ministry"
Why people want to name it i dont know.

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No it's correct my friend. A ministry is given from our Lord Jesus as He outfits His church. It is our responsibility to manage that gift properly or we can fail. The responsibility is on our shoulders.

I'm sure everyone here can think of a Christian in the past that had moments where they either outright failed or had tripped up and it took time for them to re-establish themselves again.

Alithis said:

Its a perspective assessment..
$10 million private jets are excess .. people overlook the astronomical costs of maintaining and flying them.
Ie Her giving ..would have to exceed. Between$700,000 to 4 million a year (depending on the size of the jet.) Because thats the type of maintenance cost to have a private Jet.

The point is.. If your motive is to profit by way of the gospel then your motive becomes evident by its fruits ..
So when the giving outweighs the profits then that would be good fruit.
If the motive is to help people be freed by the Gospel then lodging clothes and food needs were met many many years ago.. Mansions are unrequired

But..if you scroll back you'll see that all i said was...
- what she preaches Vs how she lives... Is Not a good look.
And to be honest.. Its not. We all know thats a simple fact.

How that effects her life in God is up to GOD.
Jesus did say if you get your reward here ..youve had it already.

-how about me in respect to the things i own ... ?sold it all ..became a full time gospel worker trusting God to provide every day .
Presently sharing small quarters with a family of 6 where all things are considered the oroperty of all and the entire motive is to heal the sick preach the gospel drive out Devils baptize in jesus name and make more disciples teaching them to do the same.
We dont play Christianity on sunday.

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Not everyone is called to a commune, but some definitely are. Personally, with the right people, I would love to live in a tight knit Christian community, but I've learned that it is quite easy for such communities to become extremely toxic, and man-centered real quick. I'm not saying that about you, so don't misinterpret me there. I'm making a general observation.

You know, to someone who has never not been hungry, a computer is as excessive as a private jet seems to someone with their own computer. You don't know what she does with that jet. Maybe it's what her son uses to connect to his flights overseas to coordinate disaster aid and maybe his team starts their work in it on the way. I don't know, and either to you.

I just don't see the Bible laying out what exactly excess is, short of a greedy and covetous heart. Come to think of it, that is what excess is--a greedy and covetous heart and I know a whole lot more greedy and covetous poor people than rich people. It just might be on display in this thread. God, yes God Himself, greatly blessed many Godly men in the Bible for their faithfulness, and He also left others with little material wealth for their faith. I guess that's why neither of us are God. Joyce says she can do with or without her things, since God means far more to her than that. I have no good reason to doubt her, and, I suspect neither do you.

"Tall poppies." <-- I would take that ideology as anti-Gospel.

Alithis said:

Tbe only criticism offered is that what she preaches Vs how she lives ..is not a good look .
And I posted evidence of her style of life.
I offered no judgment on it outside that.

But it is fact .. Most of her money is from the video dvd and book sales.
Its a minimum fee i last heard of $40,000 to book her to speak... (Needs verification )


Imagine what the apostles could have made...

But such income has come by way of monetary "profits" via the selling of a produ ed merchandise ...all riding on the back of what ?
- The Gospel .

-For we do not market the word of God for profit like so many. On the contrary, we speak with sincerity in Christ, as from God and before God....2 corinth 2 :17

But put whom we are speaking of aside.
And make a general assesment..
No matter how good sounding the teaching or preaching..What is the Motive for making it a full time trade?
How is that motive assessed ?

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"The Gospel" "Freely we have received, and freely we give."

jiminpa said:

Not everyone is called to a commune, but some definitely are. Personally, with the right people, I would love to live in a tight knit Christian community, but I've learned that it is quite easy for such communities to become extremely toxic, and man-centered real quick. I'm not saying that about you, so don't misinterpret me there. I'm making a general observation.

You know, to someone who has never not been hungry, a computer is as excessive as a private jet seems to someone with their own computer. You don't know what she does with that jet. Maybe it's what her son uses to connect to his flights overseas to coordinate disaster aid and maybe his team starts their work in it on the way. I don't know, and either to you.

I just don't see the Bible laying out what exactly excess is, short of a greedy and covetous heart. Come to think of it, that is what excess is--a greedy and covetous heart and I know a whole lot more greedy and covetous poor people than rich people. It just might be on display in this thread. God, yes God Himself, greatly blessed many Godly men in the Bible for their faithfulness, and He also left others with little material wealth for their faith. I guess that's why neither of us are God. Joyce says she can do with or without her things, since God means far more to her than that. I have no good reason to doubt her, and, I suspect neither do you.

"Tall poppies." <-- I would take that ideology as anti-Gospel.

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Who lives in a commune??
But yes i have reason to doubt her..
Eveidence displays excess and a love of it.
But the American mindset is coveteous based.. Its a capitalist mindset . its rooted in covetousness .
Money is security for the western mind.
But for the born again mind ..the renewed mind . CHRIST is all in all.
And thats where i must doubt those who store up millions in barns....
The parables are no joke.

She reported about how much her ministry takes in now, and I think it was 89% of it, or a very large percentage and chunk of it went directly to missions outreaches of hers, being the hands and feet of Jesus and to support many people doing that around the globe, the more she gets the more they or it gets...

And she talked about how she first became a preacher, and how it was very small at first, and how she and Dave had to live with all their income with nothing left over at all always going directly to bills and the like (and they tithed), and how she was trying to find her kids some shoes and garage sales and things like that, and how she preached and they went to church and tithed and she preached home bible studies and even when she actually became a preacher, was not successful overnight, nor rich either, but she did it and kept with it and stuck with God and "kept the faith" anyway, through it all, and now look at her...?

Then the abuse she had to overcome that she talks about now, and her whole life experiences story up to now, how she really went through a lot of changes as a person, and how it was not easy, but it can be done, how shes a living breathing walking miracle basically...

She does not live and overly rich lifestyle either, nor has a rich, better than thou supposedly holy attitude (anymore) either, but a real true or much more truer holier attitude and personality now...

I like her, I maybe, not admire, well, IDK?, but I most definitely have a lot and a great deal of respect for her...

God Bless!

messianist said:

Ok

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You should look at the circumstances behind Paul's instructions.
As well you have to reconcile why Paul allowed women teach in his ministry.
During Paul's time there was pagan worship of the Goddess Dianna, if they had authority they would castrate men.
At Corinth gossip was a big problem.

(Let your women keep silent )
If you truly believe this was a blanket command for all Christianty, then at no point should a woman teach or have any authority .
Look around and remove women from teaching men everywhere.
Consider Paul a hypocrite due to his use of Women.
Or you can logically rightly divide God's Word and understand that the statements were proprietary to their location.

As far as prosperity Gospel goes, please to the critics practice what you preach.
2 Corinthians 4: 1. Therefore seeing we have this ministry, as we have received mercy, we faint not; 2. But have renounced the hidden things of dishonesty, not walking in craftiness, nor handling the word of God deceitfully; but by manifestation of the truth commending ourselves to every man's conscience in the sight of God.