The Rule of faith and practice is not scripture "alone"

swordsman1 · Dec 16, 2018

LoveofTruth said:
Not accurate as scripture corrects you again

5 Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?"(2 Cor 13:2-5 KJV

Do you believe in the “Trinity”? As I do?

We read of the Spirit of the Father in us and Jesus Christ in us is also said to be the Spirit of His Son in us.

John says that we have both the Father and the Son and we are in the Father and in the Son.

Again these mysteries are not easily understood by some as it seems you don’t understand them in your talk .

You are very wrong I'm afraid. The quote I gave from Rom 8 shows that the Holy Spirit = the Spirit of Christ = Christ in you.

But if that is not proof enough then look at Rom 8:15-16 where it says the Holy Spirit will cause us to cry "Abba Father":

Rom 8:15-16 "For you did not receive the spirit of slavery to fall back into fear, but you have received the Spirit of adoption as sons, by whom we cry, “Abba! Father!” The Spirit himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God,"

But we read from Gal 4:6 that it is the Spirit of Christ who causes us to cry Abba Father

Gal 4:6 And because you are sons, God has sent the Spirit of his Son into our hearts, crying, “Abba! Father!”

And if that still is not proof enough then look at 1 Peter 1:10-11. It says that the Spirit of Christ was speaking through the OT prophets.

1 Peter 1:10-11 Concerning this salvation, the prophets who prophesied about the grace that was to be yours searched and inquired carefully, inquiring what person or time the Spirit of Christ in them was indicating when he predicted the sufferings of Christ and the subsequent glories.

But we know from 2 Peter 1:21 that it was the Holy Spirit who spoke through the OT prophets:

2 Peter 1:21 For no prophecy was ever produced by the will of man, but men spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit.

And if that still is not proof enough then look at John 16:7-8 where Jesus promises the Holy Spirit will come to the disciples at Pentecost:

John 16:7 "for if I do not go away, the Helper will not come to you. But if I go, I will send him to you."

But in John 14:18-20, Jesus says it is He himself who will come to them at Pentecost, and remain in them.

John 14:18-20 “I will not leave you as orphans; I will come to you. Yet a little while and the world will see me no more, but you will see me. Because I live, you also will live. In that day you will know that I am in my Father, and you in me, and I in you.

LoveofTruth · Dec 16, 2018

swordsman1 said:
You are very wrong I'm afraid. The quote I gave from Rom 8 shows that the Holy Spirit = the Spirit of Christ = Christ in you.

Again these matters seem too weighty for you. And you are not correct again.

A quick question, do you believe in the trinity, or Oneness doctrine? And do you believe that Jesus Christ is God manifest in the flesh?

You say Christ is the Holy Ghost? And yet I showed one of the test for a person to know whether they are in the faith (as Paul gave to the Corinthians). The first test was to know that Jesus Christ is in you. This identifies who Christ is. He is Jesus Christ.

Another evidence of who Christ is is when Peter said that Jesus was the "Christ" the "Son of God". The Son of God is Christ and those who are believers in Christ can say firmly that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.

Jesus is the Christ is a clear truth as we see in scripture. And the warning in scripture is also true when we read "22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist,.."

But we read another section that clarifies it further and is a test of Spirits.

"Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world. 2 Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God: 3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.( 1 John 4:1-3 KJV)

The first test is that Jesus Christ is in every believer the second test as seen here in 1 John 4 is that Jesus Christ came in the flesh.

Now who came in the flesh? was it the Holy Ghost or the Son of God? It was the Son of God for God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son.

This should cause you to pause and reconsider your words and your error.

And consider that the Father is Holy the Son is Holy and the Holy Ghost is Holy.

God is A Spirit. These three are one.

and we read

2 Corinthians 5:19
To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself,"

2 Corinthians 1:19
For the Son of God, Jesus Christ, who was preached among you by us,..."

swordsman1 said:
But if that is not proof enough then look at Rom 8:15-16 where it says the Holy Spirit will cause us to cry "Abba Father":

Rom 8:15-16 "For you did not receive the spirit of slavery to fall back into fear, but you have received the Spirit of adoption as sons, by whom we cry, “Abba! Father!” The Spirit himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God,"

But we read from Gal 4:6 that it is the Spirit of Christ who causes us to cry Abba Father

Gal 4:6 And because you are sons, God has sent the Spirit of his Son into our hearts, crying, “Abba! Father!”

By the way. the word in Romans 8 is not "the Spirit himself", it is "the Spirit itself"(KJV) which may connect to a previous discussion we had about the word "it".

Every time you read the word Spirit, it may refer to either the Son or the Father or the Holy Ghost. Each verse is distinct and has a certain application.

For example we read in scripture of the Spirit of the Father speaking in men (before the cross and I believe this happens after the cross as well)

Matthew 10:20
For it is not ye that speak, but the Spirit of your Father which speaketh in you."

And we read of the Spirit of the Son in men

"15 But when it pleased God, who separated me from my mother's womb, and called me by his grace, 16 To reveal his Son in me, that I might preach him among the heathen; immediately I conferred not with flesh and blood:"(Galatians 1:15,16 KJV) The Son was there as the true Light, or seed sown, the word in him and revealed in time.

Galatians 4:6
"And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father."

And if that is still not enough we see the two of them together in all believers

John 14:23
"Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him."

"22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son. 23 Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also. 24 Let that therefore abide in you, which ye have heard from the beginning. If that which ye have heard from the beginning shall remain in you, ye also shall continue in the Son, and in the Father."(1 John 2:22-24 KJV)

"7 For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist. 8 Look to yourselves, that we lose not those things which we have wrought, but that we receive a full reward. 9 Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son."(2 John 1:7-9)

swordsman1 said:
And if that still is not proof enough then look at John 16:7-8 where Jesus promises the Holy Spirit will come to the disciples at Pentecost:

John 16:7 "for if I do not go away, the Helper will not come to you. But if I go, I will send him to you."

But in John 14:18-20, Jesus says it is He himself who will come to them at Pentecost, and remain in them.

John 14:18-20 “I will not leave you as orphans; I will come to you. Yet a little while and the world will see me no more, but you will see me. Because I live, you also will live. In that day you will know that I am in my Father, and you in me, and I in you.

Jesus said

"16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;"(John 14:16 KJV)

Notice the word "another". Jesus already comforted them and was in then and they in him (John 15 etc etc). But the Holy Ghost is another comforter. The word "another" means - "else" ie different, more...

swordsman1 · Dec 17, 2018

LoveofTruth said:
Again these matters seem too weighty for you. And you are not correct again.

A quick question, do you believe in the trinity, or Oneness doctrine? And do you believe that Jesus Christ is God manifest in the flesh?

You say Christ is the Holy Ghost? And yet I showed one of the test for a person to know whether they are in the faith (as Paul gave to the Corinthians). The first test was to know that Jesus Christ is in you. This identifies who Christ is. He is Jesus Christ.

Another evidence of who Christ is is when Peter said that Jesus was the "Christ" the "Son of God". The Son of God is Christ and those believers in Christ can say firmly that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.

You have a heretical view of God. There are not 3 divine Spirits (the Holy Spirit, the Spirit of Christ, and the Spirit of the Father). That is what the heresies of Arianism and Tritheism teach. If there were 3 Spirits there would be 3 Gods. No, there are three persons in one God, and there is only one divine Spirit.

Ephesians 2:18 for through Him we both have our access in one Spirit to the Father.

Ephesians 4:4 There is one body and one Spirit, just as also you were called in one hope of your calling;

1 Corinthians 12:13 For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body, whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free, and we were all made to drink of one Spirit.

The Athanasian Creed is accepted by practically all Christian denominations:

The Father was neither made nor created nor begotten;

the Son was neither made nor created, but was alone begotten of the Father;

the Spirit was neither made nor created, but is proceeding from the Father and the Son.

Thus there is one Father, not three fathers; one Son, not three sons; one Holy Spirit, not three spirits.

I did not say that Christ is the Holy Spirit, as you claim - you are disingenuously putting words into my mouth. I said the Holy Spirit = the Spirit of Christ = Christ in you. And I gave you not just one, but four pieces of scriptural evidence which proves that. None of which you can deny.

But if my words are not enough to convince you that the Spirit of Christ is the Holy Spirit then perhaps you should listen to the overwhelming majority of commentators, both ancient and modern, who agree with me. I'll focus on just one of those passages Rom 8:9-10, but they all agree that the Spirit of Christ in the other verses I quotes is the Holy Spirit. In fact, I could not find a single commentator who agrees with your view.

John Gill

now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his. By "the Spirit of Christ", is not meant the human soul of Christ; nor his divine nature; nor his Gospel, which is the Spirit that gives life; but the Holy Ghost, the third person in the Trinity, the same which is called the Spirit before; and proves Christ to be God, he proceeds from him as from the Father, is sent by him, and with which Christ's human nature was fitted and filled.

And if Christ be in you,.... Not as he is in the whole world, and in all his creatures, or circumscriptively, and to the exclusion of himself elsewhere; for his person is above in heaven, his blood is within the vail, his righteousness is upon his people, and his Spirit and grace are in them; and so he comes to be in them, he is formed in their hearts by the Spirit of God in regeneration, when the Father reveals him not only to them, but in them; and he himself enters and takes possession of them as his own, manifests himself to them, communicates his grace, and grants them communion with him.

Charles Hodge

Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ. It is obvious that the Spirit of Christ is identical with the Spirit of God. The one expression is interchanged with the other: ‘If the Spirit of God dwell in you, you are true Christians; for if the Spirit of Christ be not in you, you are none of his.' This is the reasoning of the apostle. "Spirit of Christ," therefore, can no more mean the temper or disposition of Christ, than "Spirit of God" can mean the disposition of God. Both expressions designate the Holy Ghost, the third person in the adorable Trinity. The Holy Spirit is elsewhere called the Spirit of Christ, Galatians 4:6; Philippians 1:19; 1 Peter 1:11. Whatever the genitive expresses in the one case, it does in the other. He is of the Spirit of Christ in the same sense in which he is the Spirit of God. In other words, the Spirit stands in the same relation to the second, that he does to the first person of the Trinity.

John Calvin

But if any have not the Spirit of Christ, etc. .... But let readers observe here, that the Spirit is, without any distinction, called sometimes the Spirit of God the Father, and sometimes the Spirit of Christ; and thus called, not only because his whole fulness was poured on Christ as our Mediator and head, so that from him a portion might descend on each of us, but also because he is equally the Spirit of the Father and of the Son, who have one essence, and the same eternal divinity. As, however, we have no intercourse with God except through Christ, the Apostle wisely descends to Christ from the Father, who seems to be far off:

10.But if Christ be in us, etc. What he had before said of the Spirit he says now of Christ, in order that the mode of Christ’s dwelling in us might be intimated; for as by the Spirit he consecrates us as temples to himself, so by the same he dwells in us.

Charles Ellicott

Verse 9
(9) Such is not your case—if at least the Spirit of God and of Christ dwells in you, as it should in every Christian.
The Spirit of God . . . the Spirit of Christ.—It is to be observed that these two terms are used as convertible. The Spirit of Christ is indeed the presence of Christ Himself in the soul. (Comp. John 14:16; John 14:18; John 14:20, “I will pray the Father, and He shall give you another Comforter, that He may abide with you for ever. . . . I will not leave you comfortless (orphans): I will come to you. . . . At that day ye shall know that I am in My Father, and ye in Me, and I in you.”)

Leon Morris

The Spirit of Christ is not a common expression (but cf. Acts 16:7; Phil. 1:19; 1 Pet. 1:11). Spirit, of course, is to be spelled with a capital, for the word refers to the Holy Spirit (though Schonfield has “spirit of Christ”; this would mean “if anyone does not live in the same way, in the same spirit as Christ”). The Spirit of Christ is another way of referring to the Spirit of God. The doctrine of the Trinity had not yet been formulated, but it is this kind of expression that led Christians in due time to speak of God as triune.39 Paul sees the Spirit as integrally related to Christ as well as to the Father. We receive him on the basis of Christ’s saving work, and without that there would be no activity of the Spirit in the specifically Christian sense (cf. John 7:39).4

There seems little difference between the indwelling of Christ and that of the Holy Spirit. The indwelling of the Spirit is mentioned both before and after this verse, and there is no indication of a change of subject. Paul is not identifying Christ with the Spirit, but he is saying that in the indwelling of the Spirit none less than Christ is present.“ ‘Spirit in you’ is impossible apart from ‘Christ in you’. Union with Christ is the only way into the life of the Age to Come, of which the distinguishing mark is the Spirit”

Albert Barnes

Have not the Spirit of Christ - ...The word “spirit” is often used to denote the temper, disposition; thus we say, a man of a generous spirit, or of a revengeful spirit, etc. It may possibly have this meaning here, and denotes that he who has not the temper or disposition of Christ is not his, or has no evidence of piety. But the connection seems to demand that it should be understood in a sense similar to the expression “the Spirit of God,” and “the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus” Romans 8:11; and if so, it means the Spirit which Christ imparts, or sends to accomplish his work John 14:26, the Holy Spirit, sent to make us like Christ, and to sanctify our hearts. And in this sense it evidently denotes the Spirit which Christ would send to produce in us the views and feelings which he came to establish, and which shall assimilate us to himself. If this refers to the Holy Spirit, then we see the manner in which the apostle spoke of the Saviour. He regarded “the Spirit” as equally the Spirit of God and of Christ, as proceeding from both; and thus evidently believed that there is a union of nature between the Father and the Son. Such language could never be used except on the supposition that the Father and Son are one; that is, that Christ is divine.

And if Christ be in you - ... This real and vital union is formed by the one Spirit of Christ, the Holy Spirit pervading the Head and the members of the mystical body; 1 Corinthians 6:17; 1 Corinthians 12:13; 1 John 3:24; 1 John 4:13. It is true, indeed, that the essential presence of Christ‘s Spirit is everywhere, but he is present in Christ‘s members, in a special way, as the fountain of spiritual influence. This spiritual presence, which is the bond of union, is manifested immediately upon a man‘s reception of Christ by faith. From that hour he is one with Christ, because the same Spirit lives in both.

Jamieson, Fausset, & Brown

if any man have not the Spirit of Christ — Again, this does not mean “the disposition or mind of Christ,” but the Holy Ghost; here called “the Spirit of Christ,” just as He is called “the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus” (see on Romans 8:2). It is as “the Spirit of Christ” that the Holy Ghost takes possession of believers, introducing into them all the gracious, dove-like disposition which dwelt in Him (Matthew 3:16; John 3:34). Now if any man‘s heart be void, not of such dispositions, but of the blessed Author of them, “the Spirit of Christ.”

And if Christ be in you — by His indwelling Spirit in virtue of which we have one life with him.

Matthew Henry

If any man has not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his. To be Christ's ... Having the Spirit of Christ is the same with having the Spirit of God to dwell in us.
If Christ be in you. Observe, If the Spirit be in us, Christ is in us. He dwells in the heart by faith, Ephesians 3:17.

Matthew Poole

If any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his; if he has not the same Spirit which in the former part of the verse is called the Spirit of God: it is called the Spirit of Christ, because it proceeds from him, and is procured by him, John 14:26 John 16:7 Galatians 4:6. When he saith such a one is none of Christ’s, he means, that he doth not peculiarly belong to Christ, he hath no special interest in him, is no true member of him. As a merchant sets his seal upon his goods, so doth Christ his Spirit upon his followers, Ephesians 1:13.

If Christ be in you; before he said, the Spirit of God and Christ dwelt in them; here, Christ himself. Christ dwells in believers by his Spirit.

Henry Alford

the Spirit of Christ (= πν. θεοῦ above. Obs. here that πν. θεοῦ, πν. χριστοῦ, and χριστός, are all used of the Holy Spirit indwelling in the Christian),

Charles Spurgeon

“If any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.” If he has not the Holy Ghost really dwelling in him, guiding him, directing him, teaching him, comforting him, supporting him, he is none of Christ’s. And if we do not exhibit the Spirit of Christ in our character,-if we have not gentleness, meekness, purity, holiness, benevolence, we are none of Christ’s.

William Burkitt

That the Holy Ghost is called the Spirit of Christ passively, and by way of reception, as being bestowed upon him, and received by him; also actively, and by way of collation, as being bestowed by him, and conveyed from him.
If Christ be in you, that is by his Holy Spirit, the body is dead, that is, still subject to death, because of sin,

Justin Edwards

The Spirit of Christ; the Holy Spirit, producing in him in some measure a likeness to Christ, and leading him earnestly to desire that it may be perfected.
If Christ be in you; by his Spirit, producing in you a likeness to himself.

William Godbey

9. “You are not in carnality, but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwelleth in you. But if any one have not the Spirit of Christ, he is not his.” Here we have a beautiful and lucid affirmation of the divine unity. “Spirit” occurring three times in this verse. First, He is the Holy Spirit, in the second place, the Spirit of the Father; and in the third instance, the Spirit of the Son, and identical throughout, illustrating clearly the identity of the three persons constituting the Godhead, and the identity of the Spirit of the Father, Son and Holy Ghost. The same is clearly revealed in Acts 5, where Holy Ghost, in Romans 8:3, God, in Romans 8:4, and Spirit of the Lord, i. e., Christ, in Romans 8:9, are all used synonymously. It is exceedingly pertinent for us to be specific at this point, as some have gotten tangled discriminating between the Spirit of Jesus and the Holy Ghost and the Spirit of God, and gone off into the tri-theistic heresy to their spiritual detriment.

Robert Haldane

Verse 9
The same Spirit that is called the Spirit of God in the preceding part of the sentence, is in this latter part called the Spirit of Christ, because Christ having, by virtue of His sacrifice, obtained the Spirit for His people, sends Him into their hearts, John 16:7. Christ, then, who sends the Holy Spirit, must be God. Every Christian has the Spirit of Christ dwelling in him. When Christ takes possession of any man as His, He puts His Holy Spirit within him. Without the presence of His Spirit, we can have no interest in Christ.

swordsman1 · Dec 17, 2018

...cont

Heinrich Meyer

πνεῦμα χριστοῦ [Spirit of Christ] (comp. Philippians 1:19; 1 Peter 1:11) is none other than the Holy Ghost, the Spirit of God. He is so called because the exalted Christ really communicates Himself to His own in and with the Paraclete (John 14), so that the Spirit is the living principle and the organ of the proper presence of Christ and of His life in them. Comp. on 2 Corinthians 3:16; Galatians 2:20; Galatians 4:6; Ephesians 3:17; Colossians 1:27; Acts 16:7. That this, and not perchance the endowment of Christ with the Spirit (Fritzsche), is the view here taken, is clearly proved by the following εἰ δὲ χριστὸς ἐν ὑμῖν. Comp. Weiss, bibl. Theol. p. 346. The designation of the Holy Spirit by πν. χριστοῦ is purposely selected in order to render very conspicuous the truth of the οὐκ ἔστιν αὐτοῦ. Köllner wrongly lays down a distinction between the Spirit of God and the Spirit of Christ; making the former the highest πνεῦμα, the source and perfection of all πνεῦμα, and the latter the higher God-resembling mind that was manifested in Christ. But a distinction between them is not required by Romans 8:10-11 (see on that passage), and is decisively forbidden by Galatians 4:6, compared with Romans 8:14-16.

Rhoderick Ice

The Spirit of Christ = the Spirit of God = the Holy Spirit. Shepherd says: "The possession of the Holy Spirit is declared to be absolutely necessary to our being acceptable to God." See Galatians 4:6.
But if Christ lives in you. Both God and Christ live in the Christian through the Holy Spirit (Ephesians 2:22). Note that "God's Spirit lives in you," "have the Spirit of Christ," and "Christ lives in you," all express the same important fact.

Peter Pett

Indeed if any man does not have the Spirit of Christ he is ‘none of His’. Note the change to ‘Spirit of Christ’, important in context because the point is that central to being a Christian is our relationship to Christ. But the Spirit of Christ is the Spirit of God, for Christ is God. God is seen in general as represented in men’s hearts by ‘the Holy Spirit’.
‘And if Christ is in you, the body is dead because of sin, but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.’ Quite easily Paul can slip from having the Holy Spirit in us, to having Christ in us, thus illustrating Their total equality.

Joseph Beet

Evidently the Spirit of God is also the Spirit of Christ. This implies that the one Spirit is an essential relation to both the Father and the Son. It also implies that the Holy Spirit is the only medium of union with Christ. For Paul here asserts that they only are Christ’s in whom dwells the Spirit of Christ. And this implies that all the justified have the Holy Spirit; as was assumed in Romans 5:5. Yet we do not become Christ’s by receiving the Spirit, but (Romans 3:22) by faith. We are then (Galatians 3:26) sons of God; and, because of this, the Spirit of the Son (Galatians 4:6) is sent into our hearts.
Christ in you: evidently equivalent to the “Spirit of God dwells in you” in Romans 8:9 : see Romans 8:11. For the Spirit of Christ and of God is the Bearer of the presence of Christ and God. Cp. Galatians 2:20, “Christ lives in me.”

Paul Kretzmann

for if anyone have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of His. A person must be regenerated in truth, and not merely in appearance; he must actually have received the Spirit of Christ and have this Spirit dwelling in Him, otherwise Christ will not acknowledge him as one of His own. Note that the Spirit is here called the Spirit of Christ, that Christ is therefore placed on an equality with the Father as the One from whom the Spirit proceeds.
If, however, Christ is in you, if He is the impelling power of your lives, brought into your hearts by the work of His Spirit, Joh_14:16-18; Joh_14:23, then the body indeed, the instrument of sin, is dead

Johann Lange

The Spirit of Christ. ... It is the Spirit of God as the Spirit of Christ, the Spirit of His righteousness of life as brought home to the inward life of believers. [There can be no reasonable doubt that it is identical with Spirit of God, above; though the connection with “none of His” has occasioned the use of this particular phrase. The genitive is possessive, Spirit belonging to, or proceeding from, Christ. Comp. Philippians 1:19; Galatians 4:6; 1 Peter 1:11. Notice the terms, “Spirit of God,” “Spirit of Christ,” “Christ,” all applied to the Divine spiritual indwelling.

Barton W. Johnson

Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his. The proof that we have this indwelling Spirit is that we "mind the things of the Spirit" (Romans 8:5), and bear its fruit (Galatians 5:22-23). Observe that the Spirit is spoken of in this verse both as the Spirit of God, and the Spirit of Christ.
But if Christ be in you. Christ is in us by his Spirit. Notice that the indwelling of the Spirit of God, having the Spirit of Christ, belonging to Christ, having Christ in us, are all varied expressions of the same great fact.

John Dummelow

9 ... The Spirit of God is the Spirit of Christ, because He comes from the Son as well as from the Father. Also His Presence is in effect the Presence of Christ: cp. Romans 8:10 John 14:16.; Galatians 4:6.

Bible Highlighter · Dec 17, 2018

The most clearest verse in Scripture that describes the Trinity is
1 John 5:7 (KJV). This verse appears in the King James Version but it is wrongfully removed from many Modern Translations.

1 John 5:7 says,
"For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one."

Now, there are two wrong extremes people have made involving the Trinity.

#1. Modalism:
(Which is a belief held by United Pentecostals).

This says that there is no distinctive persons within the Godhead. That God the Father just puts on a mask and pretends to be the Son; Others believe it says all three persons are smashed together whereby the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost do not have any kind of distinctiveness anymore. But the Bible makes it clear that the Father sent the Son to die for our sins (And it was not the Son sending the Father) (1 John 4:14). The Bible makes it clear that one cannot be forgiven if they speak a word against the Holy Spirit but yet, this is not the case if one speaks a word against the Son, though (Matthew 12:32).

#2. Tritheism:
(Which is a belief held by Mormons).

This says that the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost are three separate and distinct gods. This is polytheism or the worship of more than one God. But the Bible makes it clear that the Lord our God is one God (Deuteronomy 6:4).

Then there is the correct view of the Trinity:

The Lord our God exists as one God, but He exists as three distinct persons (i.e. The Father, the Word (Christ), and the Holy Ghost). All three persons co-existed as one God for all eternity. Also, in the Trinity, the Father and the Son and can dwell within one another despite their distinctiveness as persons within the Godhead, too. For Jesus said He dwells in the Father and the Father dwells in Him (John 14:10) (John 17:21).

Bible Highlighter · Dec 17, 2018

The Trinity:

The Bible teaches that there is one God (Deuteronomy 6:4) (1 Timothy 2:5) (Isaiah 45:5).

Yet, the Bible also teaches that there are distinctions within the Godhead or that there is a plural nature to God.

Here are a couple of quick points:

#1. The word Elohim (אֱלֹהִ֔ים) is both a singular and a plural noun.
#2. God refers to Himself in plural form (Genesis 1:26) (Genesis 3:22) (Genesis 11:7) (Isaiah 6:8).
#3. Plurality of God in New Testament (Matthew 28:19) (2 Corinthians 13:14) (John 14:16-20).
#4. Introductions to both the Son & Holy Spirit (Daniel 7:9-10, Daniel 7:13-14) (John 14:16)
#5. Different persons of Godhead appear at one time (Luke 3:21-22)
#6. Distinctions of Wills (Luke 22:42).
#7. Conversations Between the Godhead (Psalms 2:1-12) (Psalms 45:6-7) (Psalms 110:1) (Matthew 11:27) (John 17:24).

LoveofTruth · Dec 17, 2018

swordsman1 said:
You have a heretical view of God. There are not 3 divine Spirits (the Holy Spirit, the Spirit of Christ, and the Spirit of the Father). That is what the heresies of Arianism and Tritheism teach. If there were 3 Spirits there would be 3 Gods. No, there are three persons in one God, and there is only one divine Spirit.

Again as I said, these are high, deep things and we can barely grasp the depth. But the scriptures I showed you are there as proof of all that I said. Which are only known as the Spirit teaches.

I believe I have already said that I believe the Trinity, I believe that God is one in essence and substance of being, yet God exist in three persons, but one God. There is only one God; the Father is God, the Son is God and the Holy Ghost is God. These three are one. There are three coeternal, coequal, divine, distinct, but not separate personal moral agents in the Godhead. there is one God in being who eternally exists as three distinct though not separate Persons. That God is one in essence and three in person, or three persons in one God.

"7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one."(1 John 5:7 KJV). And yes I believe that verse should be in the bible. No sense in getting into a ten page discussion of that text right now, I'm sure you can find answers in many places.

I do not believe in Tritheism. This heresy rejects the idea of one God in being. It teaches that there are three separate beings in three different God’s. I reject this view. Even though you falsely try to associate me with this.

I certainly do not believe in Arianism even though you falsely try to associate me with this.. Those who taught this heresy denied the divinity of Christ They taught that there was a time when the Son was not and that the Son was created by the Father. I deny this heresy.

You error again in your comments and did not deal with the clear scriptures I gave. You seem to be trying to deflect again and to create another discussion about the beloved Trinity doctrine which I believe and teach and hold firmly to.

I showed very clearly what scripture teaches about Christ. We read that Jesus Christ came in the flesh. This is speaking of the Word made flesh this is the Son of God that came, and this is Jesus Christ. So the word “Christ” is connected to the incarnation and not specifically to the Father or the Holy Ghost.
Show me a scripture where the Father came in the flesh or the Holy Ghost came in the flesh and you may have a case. But I do not find any such scriptures.

We do not read that the Father came in the flesh, if some say that then they teach the “patripassianism” heresy. That "patripassianism, is the belief that God the Father suffered and died on the cross along with God the Son, or that the Father suffered as the Son. I do not agree with this either.

If a person says that the Holy Ghost came in the flesh, then they would in effect not be acknowledging that the Son of God (Jesus Christ), who is the Word made flesh (John 1:14 KJV) came in the flesh. They would not be saying that "Christ came in the flesh" in effect because Christ identity would not be the same as scripture shows. For they would not specifically see “Christ” as the Son of God and the incarnation would be misunderstood. This is why this issue is serious.

But we know that God so loved the world that he gave His only begotten Son and only when Jesus Christ accomplished his work was the Holy Ghost was poured out in all flesh.

Do you believe the Son always was and that the Son was "WITH" the Father before the world was? (John 17:5). The word "with" -means "beside, face to face, near". If the Son was "with" the Father before he came to the earth and we know there is only one God in being how do you understand the person of the Son? Is the Son Spirit and still one in being with the Father as I believe. If the Son is not Spirit what is the Son? Yes, the Son Of God is now God manifest in the flesh. I am speaking of His person before he came to the Earth and how the "Son" is in us.

You use the word "persons" as I do when speaking of the Father the Son and the Holy Ghost, yet how do you understand three persons? We see the Son speaking to the Father and the Father speaking to the Son and the Holy Ghost speaking as well. All distinct though not separate persons in the Godhead. One God in being three in person. We also see this that I stated to you

Jesus is the Christ is a clear truth as we see in scripture. And the warning in scripture is also true when we read "22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist,.." . Jesus is the Word of God made flesh. The Father the Word and the Holy Ghost are distinct but One God. John uses the word "these three are one". How are they three and how are they distinct persons who communicate to eachother?

Part of the issue is to understand what Spirit is. And how "these THREE are ONE”. We see some examples in life about this but none give an exact understanding. We hear of things like time, space and matter yet one universe. Or in time past, present and future yet one time. Solid, liquid and gas yet one matter. Protron, nuetron and electron on atom. Body, soul and spirit yet one being. Height, x length x breadth yet one space. Each distinct yet all one.

In This passage in the Old Testament we see all three and each a distinct person though all one God in being. God is a Spirit, Yet There is communication within the God head as seen in the scripture below. This is a strong Trinity passage.

"12 Hearken unto me, O Jacob and Israel, my called; I am he; I am the first, I also am the last. 13 Mine hand also hath laid the foundation of the earth, and my right hand hath spanned the heavens: when I call unto them, they stand up together. 14 All ye, assemble yourselves, and hear; which among them hath declared these things? The Lord hath loved him: he will do his pleasure on Babylon, and his arm shall be on the Chaldeans. 15 I, even I, have spoken; yea, I have called him: I have brought him, and he shall make his way prosperous. 16 Come ye near unto me, hear ye this; I have not spoken in secret from the beginning; from the time that it was, there am I: and now the Lord God, and his Spirit, hath sent me. 17 Thus saith the Lord, thy Redeemer, the Holy One of Israel; I am the Lord thy God which teacheth thee to profit, which leadeth thee by the way that thou shouldest go."(Isaiah 48:12-17 KJV)

Here we see the Lord God speaking of the Lord God and His Spirit sending Him. These three are one Lord God , yet three persons.

swordsman1 said:
Ephesians 2:18 for through Him we both have our access in one Spirit to the Father.

Ephesians 4:4 There is one body and one Spirit, just as also you were called in one hope of your calling;

1 Corinthians 12:13 For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body, whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free, and we were all made to drink of one Spirit.

None of these verses you quoted deny anything I said or the verses i quoted. Each one is in a specific context. We go to the father through Jesus Christ by the Holy Ghost. The Holy Ghost baptizes us into the body of Christ. We are immersed into Jesus Christ by the Spirit as 1 Cor 12:13 says.

swordsman1 said:
I did not say that Christ is the Holy Spirit, as you claim - you are disingenuously putting words into my mouth. I said the Holy Spirit = the Spirit of Christ = Christ in you.

This is saying just that. You also repeated it again further down and said

"But if my words are not enough to convince you that the Spirit of Christ is the Holy Spirit"

You seem to say it very clearly. I see this almost as denying that Jesus Christ came in the flesh. Almost, because you do not identify who Christ is specifically and say he is or = the Holy Ghost who is or = Christ in you. This is not being false in my accusation. You say it very clearly, and if you are not saying that the Holy Ghost is the Spirit of Christ and if Christ in believers is not the Holy Ghost then who is he?. In essence you are saying that Christ is the Holy Ghost. At least from your words.
But show me one verse that says the Holy Ghost came in the flesh? The Word of God was with God and was God and the Word was made flesh. Who do you understand the Word of God to be? The Word made flesh is Jesus Christ come in the flesh, God manifest in the flesh, the Son of God sent down from heaven by the Father.

We also read that

"3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; 4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:"(1 Corinthians 15:3,4 KJV)

This is a reference to the Son of God, Jesus Christ who died for our sins. It does not say the Father died on the cross or the Holy Ghost. If you say the Christ is the Holy Ghost as you seem to be saying all over, then the Holy Ghost would have been referred to in this verse.

If the Holy Ghost=the Spirit of Christ and this is Christ in you, then what are saying sounds similar to the Oneness heresy that they are not distinct persons in the Godhead more like modes or changing hats.

God the Father sent the Son. We do not read that the Holy Ghost was sent as the Son was in the flesh. I showed you that if a person denies that Jesus Christ came in the flesh that is a heresy and false view (1 John 4:1-3 KJV)

The question is who is Christ? I showed very very clearly by many scriptures which you seem to ignore that JESUS is the Christ and that Jesus Christ is in all believers. I also showed that Jesus Christ came in the flesh. To say or imply that the word "Christ in you " means the Holy Ghost and not specifically the Son or the Word of God, is the issue.

I Also showed that all believers have BOTH the Father and the Son in them. How do you understand if we have both in us?

I can show that when we speak of the Spirit of Christ in us, or “Christ in you the hope of glory”, we are not referring specifically to the Holy Ghost but the Son of God even though the Holy Ghost empowers believers and testifies of Jesus and each one of the persons in the God head have a specific work and each verse has a specific context and meaning, they are not all the same.

There are different way to show that "Christ:" is not in reference to the Holy Ghost. One point is seen in the seed of Abraham. We read

"16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ...
28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. 29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise."(Galatians 3:16,28,29 KJV)

Notice that the seed of Abraham is Christ and this is the seed in every believer also. But we know that Abraham did not have the Holy Ghost baptism yet for the Spirit baptism was not yet given. But he did have Christ in him as all believers today do. All believers in the Old Testament were born again by the word of God this is a spiritual birth where God dwells in His children. But, “If any man have not the Spirit of Christ he is none of His.” This would include Abraham and all those from the beginning of the world who were saved. If they did not have the Spirit of Christ they were none of His. Do you want to say that Abraham and all the Old Testament saints did not belong to Christ and were none of His? I would not say such a thing.

Also notice, when Paul says in Christ Jesus instead of Jesus Christ in some cases, I believe there is a reason for this connecting Christ to His work before he came to the earth. This is similar to how John says that the True light lighteth every man that cometh into the world (John 1:9 KJV) and how he was in the world and they knew Him not. This is a hidden mystery in the old Testament days as Paul said (Colossians 1:26,27 KJV Ephesians 3:3-9 KJV)). The mystery was Christ in you the hope of glory. This mystery was there, but hidden. Faith is the substance of things hoped for the evidence of things not seen. This is Christ in the heart speaking and giving life. This is the seed sown and the word of God in the heart. This is God dwelling in men as all in Hebrews 11 had and many others even before Christ came in the flesh.

LoveofTruth · Dec 17, 2018

swordsman1 said:
There are not 3 divine Spirits (the Holy Spirit, the Spirit of Christ, and the Spirit of the Father)

Are you trying to say that the person of the Father and the person of the Son and the person of the Holy Ghost are not Spirit? I already showed that scripture uses the word Spirit of the Father distinct though not separate from the Spirit of the Son and the Holy Ghost.

You, nor I will. not be able to fully comprehend the working of the "three are one" or how this can fully be, yet we can clearly see that there are three who talk to each other and each has a specific work.

In Jesus baptism we saw Jesus Christ in the water and we read of he voice of the Father speaking from heaven and the Holy Ghost descending like a dove upon Jesus. How do you see this event? Yes, they are each persons. But the Son is the Christ being baptized. We do not say that the Father was being baptized or the Holy Ghost. But we see Jesus Christ the Son of God being baptized.

The Spirit of Christ refers to His work also in the hearts of men. I spoke previously about Christ in Deuteronomy 30 where Paul shows that Christ was speaking and working in them and near to them Compare again Romans 10 with Deuteronomy 30 KJV). And if Christ was in them hidden in mystery since the beginning then this was not the Holy Ghost baptism yet. Even though the Holy Ghost did work and move and empower men in the Old Testament as well. This understanding of Deuteronomy 30 and Romans 10 is speaking of the word of God that is near them, this is the seed sown. This is Christ the Son in his pre incarnate work.

Here is this example comparrison again, notice that Paul interprets (not re writes) the scripture giving the hidden mystery in the verse, showing that Christ was there hidden and in men's hearts and speaking and working. Paul shows the connection in Romans 10. I will post the verses from Dueteronomy first, then Paul's revealing of the mystery then the verses again in Duet, 30 to show how this is understood.*no re writing scripture simply following Paul's words there. Paul also said that the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made us free from the law of sin and death. This freedom is inward in the heart and new man.

Deut 30:10-14 KJV
"10 If thou shalt hearken unto the voice of the Lord thy God, to keep his commandments and his statutes which are written in this book of the law, and if thou turn unto the Lord thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul. 11 For this commandment which I command thee this day, it is not hidden from thee, neither is it far off. 12 It is not in heaven, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go up for us to heaven, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it? 13 Neither is it beyond the sea, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go over the sea for us, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it? 14 But the word is very nigh unto thee, in thy mouth, and in thy heart, that thou mayest do it."Dueteronomy 30:10-14 KJV)

Romans 10:6-8 KJV
"6 But the righteousness which is of faith speaketh on this wise, Say not in thine heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ down from above:) 7 Or, Who shall descend into the deep? (that is, to bring up Christ again from the dead.) 8 But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;" The word that was given to Paul to preach came from the word of Christ in His heart. Paul spoke to believers at another church to "Let the Word of Christ dwell in you" (Colossians 3:16 KJV)

Now look at Deuteronomy again with the revelation of the mystery,

Deut 30:10-14 KJV
""10 If thou shalt hearken unto the voice of the Lord thy God, to keep his commandments and his statutes which are written in this book of the law, and if thou turn unto the Lord thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul. 11 For this commandment which I command thee this day, Christ is not hidden from thee, neither is Christ far off. 12 Christ is not in heaven, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go up for us to heaven, and bring Christ unto us, that we may hear Christ, and do Christ? 13 Neither is Christ beyond the sea, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go over the sea for us, and bring Christ unto us, that we may hear Christ, and do Christ? 14 But the word of Christ is very nigh unto thee, in thy mouth, and in thy heart, that thou mayest do it."Dueteronomy 30:10-14 KJV)

Consider this and it may help to clarify what I have been saying.

Also, how do you answer these verses below that show clearly that the Father is Spirit and the Son is Spirit and the Holy Ghost is Spirit, these three are persons yes and One God in substance of being, but still distinct.

Matthew 10:20
For it is not ye that speak, but the Spirit of your Father which speaketh in you." (The Holy Ghost baptism was not yet given, yet they could still have the Spirit of the Father speak in them. Why would the scripture be written this way and say “the Spirit of the Father”. Why not write it as you are implying and say “the Spirit of God” here or ”the Holy Ghost”. Jesus speaks specifically of the work of the Spirit of Father here. Jesus also speak of the Holy Ghost coming and how "HE" will guide them and comfort them. In that example about the Holy Ghost coming Jesus speaks specifically of the Holy Ghost and not the “Spirit of the Father” or “The Spirit of the Son” (himself). He speaks of distinct persons and he uses the word “Spirit” connected to them. One God in substance of being yet three persons. I am not saying three separate Spirits or God's from eachother. But I say only as scripture says "these three are one" and "I and my Father are one" etc.

And we read of the “Spirit of the Son” in men

"15 But when it pleased God, who separated me from my mother's womb, and called me by his grace, 16 To reveal his Son in me, that I might preach him among the heathen; immediately I conferred not with flesh and blood:"(Galatians 1:15,16 KJV) The Son was there as the true Light, or seed sown, the word in him which was revealed in him in time. Since Paul was a child God was calling him. But the Son was close to him and near his heat this is the True Light and seed sown and the word is nigh (or close) unto him. Then the Son was revealed IN him.

Galatians 4:6
"And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father." Again, as we saw with the words, “the Spirit of the Father” we see “the Spirit of the Son” here also. Paul did not say the “Spirit of the Father” in this case showing again distinct persons and yet One God in being.

And if that is still not enough, we see the two of them together in all believers

John 14:23
"Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him." We and our show distinct persons and how can we say that they are not Spirit? Since they both work in believers hearts.

"22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son. 23 Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also. 24 Let that therefore abide in you, which ye have heard from the beginning. If that which ye have heard from the beginning shall remain in you, ye also shall continue in the Son, and in the Father."(1 John 2:22-24 KJV) Why doesnt John simply say they shall continue in God? Why make a distinction of the Son and the Father?

"7 For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist. 8 Look to yourselves, that we lose not those things which we have wrought, but that we receive a full reward. 9 Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son."(2 John 1:7-9) Again John is speaking of the doctrine of Christ and he identifies who Christ is clearly. But he also says they have BOTH the father and the Son. How do you understand the ”BOTH” part there?

The reason for my pressing on this point is to show that the word "Christ" is in reference to Jesus Christ come in the flesh. This is showing who Christ is. As I said we never read the Father came in the flesh. Yes God was in Christ reconciling the world unto Himself. This would be more clearly understood as God the Son in Christ. Even Jesus said "I and my Father are one. This confirms that God is one God and yet Jesus said two distinct persons there "I' and my "Father".

LoveofTruth · Dec 17, 2018

swordsman1 said:
John Gill

now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his. By "the Spirit of Christ", is not meant the human soul of Christ; nor his divine nature; nor his Gospel, which is the Spirit that gives life; but the Holy Ghost, the third person in the Trinity, the same which is called the Spirit before; and proves Christ to be God, he proceeds from him as from the Father, is sent by him, and with which Christ's human nature was fitted and filled.

And if Christ be in you,.... Not as he is in the whole world, and in all his creatures, or circumscriptively, and to the exclusion of himself elsewhere; for his person is above in heaven, his blood is within the vail, his righteousness is upon his people, and his Spirit and grace are in them; and so he comes to be in them, he is formed in their hearts by the Spirit of God in regeneration, when the Father reveals him not only to them, but in them; and he himself enters and takes possession of them as his own, manifests himself to them, communicates his grace, and grants them communion with him.

Charles Hodge

Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ. It is obvious that the Spirit of Christ is identical with the Spirit of God. The one expression is interchanged with the other: ‘If the Spirit of God dwell in you, you are true Christians; for if the Spirit of Christ be not in you, you are none of his.' This is the reasoning of the apostle. "Spirit of Christ," therefore, can no more mean the temper or disposition of Christ, than "Spirit of God" can mean the disposition of God. Both expressions designate the Holy Ghost, the third person in the adorable Trinity. The Holy Spirit is elsewhere called the Spirit of Christ, Galatians 4:6; Philippians 1:19; 1 Peter 1:11. Whatever the genitive expresses in the one case, it does in the other. He is of the Spirit of Christ in the same sense in which he is the Spirit of God. In other words, the Spirit stands in the same relation to the second, that he does to the first person of the Trinity.

John Calvin

But if any have not the Spirit of Christ, etc. .... But let readers observe here, that the Spirit is, without any distinction, called sometimes the Spirit of God the Father, and sometimes the Spirit of Christ; and thus called, not only because his whole fulness was poured on Christ as our Mediator and head, so that from him a portion might descend on each of us, but also because he is equally the Spirit of the Father and of the Son, who have one essence, and the same eternal divinity. As, however, we have no intercourse with God except through Christ, the Apostle wisely descends to Christ from the Father, who seems to be far off:

10.But if Christ be in us, etc. What he had before said of the Spirit he says now of Christ, in order that the mode of Christ’s dwelling in us might be intimated; for as by the Spirit he consecrates us as temples to himself, so by the same he dwells in us.

Charles Ellicott

Verse 9
(9) Such is not your case—if at least the Spirit of God and of Christ dwells in you, as it should in every Christian.
The Spirit of God . . . the Spirit of Christ.—It is to be observed that these two terms are used as convertible. The Spirit of Christ is indeed the presence of Christ Himself in the soul. (Comp. John 14:16; John 14:18; John 14:20, “I will pray the Father, and He shall give you another Comforter, that He may abide with you for ever. . . . I will not leave you comfortless (orphans): I will come to you. . . . At that day ye shall know that I am in My Father, and ye in Me, and I in you.”)

Leon Morris

The Spirit of Christ is not a common expression (but cf. Acts 16:7; Phil. 1:19; 1 Pet. 1:11). Spirit, of course, is to be spelled with a capital, for the word refers to the Holy Spirit (though Schonfield has “spirit of Christ”; this would mean “if anyone does not live in the same way, in the same spirit as Christ”). The Spirit of Christ is another way of referring to the Spirit of God. The doctrine of the Trinity had not yet been formulated, but it is this kind of expression that led Christians in due time to speak of God as triune.39 Paul sees the Spirit as integrally related to Christ as well as to the Father. We receive him on the basis of Christ’s saving work, and without that there would be no activity of the Spirit in the specifically Christian sense (cf. John 7:39).4

There seems little difference between the indwelling of Christ and that of the Holy Spirit. The indwelling of the Spirit is mentioned both before and after this verse, and there is no indication of a change of subject. Paul is not identifying Christ with the Spirit, but he is saying that in the indwelling of the Spirit none less than Christ is present.“ ‘Spirit in you’ is impossible apart from ‘Christ in you’. Union with Christ is the only way into the life of the Age to Come, of which the distinguishing mark is the Spirit”

Albert Barnes

Have not the Spirit of Christ - ...The word “spirit” is often used to denote the temper, disposition; thus we say, a man of a generous spirit, or of a revengeful spirit, etc. It may possibly have this meaning here, and denotes that he who has not the temper or disposition of Christ is not his, or has no evidence of piety. But the connection seems to demand that it should be understood in a sense similar to the expression “the Spirit of God,” and “the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus” Romans 8:11; and if so, it means the Spirit which Christ imparts, or sends to accomplish his work John 14:26, the Holy Spirit, sent to make us like Christ, and to sanctify our hearts. And in this sense it evidently denotes the Spirit which Christ would send to produce in us the views and feelings which he came to establish, and which shall assimilate us to himself. If this refers to the Holy Spirit, then we see the manner in which the apostle spoke of the Saviour. He regarded “the Spirit” as equally the Spirit of God and of Christ, as proceeding from both; and thus evidently believed that there is a union of nature between the Father and the Son. Such language could never be used except on the supposition that the Father and Son are one; that is, that Christ is divine.

And if Christ be in you - ... This real and vital union is formed by the one Spirit of Christ, the Holy Spirit pervading the Head and the members of the mystical body; 1 Corinthians 6:17; 1 Corinthians 12:13; 1 John 3:24; 1 John 4:13. It is true, indeed, that the essential presence of Christ‘s Spirit is everywhere, but he is present in Christ‘s members, in a special way, as the fountain of spiritual influence. This spiritual presence, which is the bond of union, is manifested immediately upon a man‘s reception of Christ by faith. From that hour he is one with Christ, because the same Spirit lives in both.

Jamieson, Fausset, & Brown

if any man have not the Spirit of Christ — Again, this does not mean “the disposition or mind of Christ,” but the Holy Ghost; here called “the Spirit of Christ,” just as He is called “the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus” (see on Romans 8:2). It is as “the Spirit of Christ” that the Holy Ghost takes possession of believers, introducing into them all the gracious, dove-like disposition which dwelt in Him (Matthew 3:16; John 3:34). Now if any man‘s heart be void, not of such dispositions, but of the blessed Author of them, “the Spirit of Christ.”

And if Christ be in you — by His indwelling Spirit in virtue of which we have one life with him.

Matthew Henry

If any man has not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his. To be Christ's ... Having the Spirit of Christ is the same with having the Spirit of God to dwell in us.
If Christ be in you. Observe, If the Spirit be in us, Christ is in us. He dwells in the heart by faith, Ephesians 3:17.

Matthew Poole

If any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his; if he has not the same Spirit which in the former part of the verse is called the Spirit of God: it is called the Spirit of Christ, because it proceeds from him, and is procured by him, John 14:26 John 16:7 Galatians 4:6. When he saith such a one is none of Christ’s, he means, that he doth not peculiarly belong to Christ, he hath no special interest in him, is no true member of him. As a merchant sets his seal upon his goods, so doth Christ his Spirit upon his followers, Ephesians 1:13.

If Christ be in you; before he said, the Spirit of God and Christ dwelt in them; here, Christ himself. Christ dwells in believers by his Spirit.

Henry Alford

the Spirit of Christ (= πν. θεοῦ above. Obs. here that πν. θεοῦ, πν. χριστοῦ, and χριστός, are all used of the Holy Spirit indwelling in the Christian),

Charles Spurgeon

“If any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.” If he has not the Holy Ghost really dwelling in him, guiding him, directing him, teaching him, comforting him, supporting him, he is none of Christ’s. And if we do not exhibit the Spirit of Christ in our character,-if we have not gentleness, meekness, purity, holiness, benevolence, we are none of Christ’s.

William Burkitt

That the Holy Ghost is called the Spirit of Christ passively, and by way of reception, as being bestowed upon him, and received by him; also actively, and by way of collation, as being bestowed by him, and conveyed from him.
If Christ be in you, that is by his Holy Spirit, the body is dead, that is, still subject to death, because of sin,

Justin Edwards

The Spirit of Christ; the Holy Spirit, producing in him in some measure a likeness to Christ, and leading him earnestly to desire that it may be perfected.
If Christ be in you; by his Spirit, producing in you a likeness to himself.

William Godbey

9. “You are not in carnality, but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwelleth in you. But if any one have not the Spirit of Christ, he is not his.” Here we have a beautiful and lucid affirmation of the divine unity. “Spirit” occurring three times in this verse. First, He is the Holy Spirit, in the second place, the Spirit of the Father; and in the third instance, the Spirit of the Son, and identical throughout, illustrating clearly the identity of the three persons constituting the Godhead, and the identity of the Spirit of the Father, Son and Holy Ghost. The same is clearly revealed in Acts 5, where Holy Ghost, in Romans 8:3, God, in Romans 8:4, and Spirit of the Lord, i. e., Christ, in Romans 8:9, are all used synonymously. It is exceedingly pertinent for us to be specific at this point, as some have gotten tangled discriminating between the Spirit of Jesus and the Holy Ghost and the Spirit of God, and gone off into the tri-theistic heresy to their spiritual detriment.

Robert Haldane

Verse 9
The same Spirit that is called the Spirit of God in the preceding part of the sentence, is in this latter part called the Spirit of Christ, because Christ having, by virtue of His sacrifice, obtained the Spirit for His people, sends Him into their hearts, John 16:7. Christ, then, who sends the Holy Spirit, must be God. Every Christian has the Spirit of Christ dwelling in him. When Christ takes possession of any man as His, He puts His Holy Spirit within him. Without the presence of His Spirit, we can have no interest in Christ.

It doesn't matter if you quote a hundred men I simply believe the witness of God in my Spirit and the Holy scriptures as I have shown..

You know this is the case. If you or I were talking to a Catholic and disagreeing with things they may quote 500 witnesses from their understanding and say they are right because of it. But that would not mean they were right.

Many of the men you quote don't believe in the gifts of the Spirit today or apostles and prophets and immediate revelation of God to believers and God speaking in the heart either. So even though we can agree with some things men say in the men you quote there would be other great differences.

Just as I would have disagreed with many things Luther and Calvin had to say and others.

LoveofTruth · Dec 17, 2018

swordsman1 said:
John Gill

now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his. By "the Spirit of Christ", is not meant the human soul of Christ; nor his divine nature; nor his Gospel, which is the Spirit that gives life; but the Holy Ghost, the third person in the Trinity, the same which is called the Spirit before; and proves Christ to be God, he proceeds from him as from the Father, is sent by him, and with which Christ's human nature was fitted and filled.

And if Christ be in you,.... Not as he is in the whole world, and in all his creatures, or circumscriptively, and to the exclusion of himself elsewhere; for his person is above in heaven, his blood is within the vail, his righteousness is upon his people, and his Spirit and grace are in them; and so he comes to be in them, he is formed in their hearts by the Spirit of God in regeneration, when the Father reveals him not only to them, but in them; and he himself enters and takes possession of them as his own, manifests himself to them, communicates his grace, and grants them communion with him.

Charles Hodge

Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ. It is obvious that the Spirit of Christ is identical with the Spirit of God. The one expression is interchanged with the other: ‘If the Spirit of God dwell in you, you are true Christians; for if the Spirit of Christ be not in you, you are none of his.' This is the reasoning of the apostle. "Spirit of Christ," therefore, can no more mean the temper or disposition of Christ, than "Spirit of God" can mean the disposition of God. Both expressions designate the Holy Ghost, the third person in the adorable Trinity. The Holy Spirit is elsewhere called the Spirit of Christ, Galatians 4:6; Philippians 1:19; 1 Peter 1:11. Whatever the genitive expresses in the one case, it does in the other. He is of the Spirit of Christ in the same sense in which he is the Spirit of God. In other words, the Spirit stands in the same relation to the second, that he does to the first person of the Trinity.

John Calvin

But if any have not the Spirit of Christ, etc. .... But let readers observe here, that the Spirit is, without any distinction, called sometimes the Spirit of God the Father, and sometimes the Spirit of Christ; and thus called, not only because his whole fulness was poured on Christ as our Mediator and head, so that from him a portion might descend on each of us, but also because he is equally the Spirit of the Father and of the Son, who have one essence, and the same eternal divinity. As, however, we have no intercourse with God except through Christ, the Apostle wisely descends to Christ from the Father, who seems to be far off:

10.But if Christ be in us, etc. What he had before said of the Spirit he says now of Christ, in order that the mode of Christ’s dwelling in us might be intimated; for as by the Spirit he consecrates us as temples to himself, so by the same he dwells in us.

Charles Ellicott

Verse 9
(9) Such is not your case—if at least the Spirit of God and of Christ dwells in you, as it should in every Christian.
The Spirit of God . . . the Spirit of Christ.—It is to be observed that these two terms are used as convertible. The Spirit of Christ is indeed the presence of Christ Himself in the soul. (Comp. John 14:16; John 14:18; John 14:20, “I will pray the Father, and He shall give you another Comforter, that He may abide with you for ever. . . . I will not leave you comfortless (orphans): I will come to you. . . . At that day ye shall know that I am in My Father, and ye in Me, and I in you.”)

Leon Morris

The Spirit of Christ is not a common expression (but cf. Acts 16:7; Phil. 1:19; 1 Pet. 1:11). Spirit, of course, is to be spelled with a capital, for the word refers to the Holy Spirit (though Schonfield has “spirit of Christ”; this would mean “if anyone does not live in the same way, in the same spirit as Christ”). The Spirit of Christ is another way of referring to the Spirit of God. The doctrine of the Trinity had not yet been formulated, but it is this kind of expression that led Christians in due time to speak of God as triune.39 Paul sees the Spirit as integrally related to Christ as well as to the Father. We receive him on the basis of Christ’s saving work, and without that there would be no activity of the Spirit in the specifically Christian sense (cf. John 7:39).4

There seems little difference between the indwelling of Christ and that of the Holy Spirit. The indwelling of the Spirit is mentioned both before and after this verse, and there is no indication of a change of subject. Paul is not identifying Christ with the Spirit, but he is saying that in the indwelling of the Spirit none less than Christ is present.“ ‘Spirit in you’ is impossible apart from ‘Christ in you’. Union with Christ is the only way into the life of the Age to Come, of which the distinguishing mark is the Spirit”

Albert Barnes

Have not the Spirit of Christ - ...The word “spirit” is often used to denote the temper, disposition; thus we say, a man of a generous spirit, or of a revengeful spirit, etc. It may possibly have this meaning here, and denotes that he who has not the temper or disposition of Christ is not his, or has no evidence of piety. But the connection seems to demand that it should be understood in a sense similar to the expression “the Spirit of God,” and “the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus” Romans 8:11; and if so, it means the Spirit which Christ imparts, or sends to accomplish his work John 14:26, the Holy Spirit, sent to make us like Christ, and to sanctify our hearts. And in this sense it evidently denotes the Spirit which Christ would send to produce in us the views and feelings which he came to establish, and which shall assimilate us to himself. If this refers to the Holy Spirit, then we see the manner in which the apostle spoke of the Saviour. He regarded “the Spirit” as equally the Spirit of God and of Christ, as proceeding from both; and thus evidently believed that there is a union of nature between the Father and the Son. Such language could never be used except on the supposition that the Father and Son are one; that is, that Christ is divine.

And if Christ be in you - ... This real and vital union is formed by the one Spirit of Christ, the Holy Spirit pervading the Head and the members of the mystical body; 1 Corinthians 6:17; 1 Corinthians 12:13; 1 John 3:24; 1 John 4:13. It is true, indeed, that the essential presence of Christ‘s Spirit is everywhere, but he is present in Christ‘s members, in a special way, as the fountain of spiritual influence. This spiritual presence, which is the bond of union, is manifested immediately upon a man‘s reception of Christ by faith. From that hour he is one with Christ, because the same Spirit lives in both.

Jamieson, Fausset, & Brown

if any man have not the Spirit of Christ — Again, this does not mean “the disposition or mind of Christ,” but the Holy Ghost; here called “the Spirit of Christ,” just as He is called “the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus” (see on Romans 8:2). It is as “the Spirit of Christ” that the Holy Ghost takes possession of believers, introducing into them all the gracious, dove-like disposition which dwelt in Him (Matthew 3:16; John 3:34). Now if any man‘s heart be void, not of such dispositions, but of the blessed Author of them, “the Spirit of Christ.”

And if Christ be in you — by His indwelling Spirit in virtue of which we have one life with him.

Matthew Henry

If any man has not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his. To be Christ's ... Having the Spirit of Christ is the same with having the Spirit of God to dwell in us.
If Christ be in you. Observe, If the Spirit be in us, Christ is in us. He dwells in the heart by faith, Ephesians 3:17.

Matthew Poole

If any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his; if he has not the same Spirit which in the former part of the verse is called the Spirit of God: it is called the Spirit of Christ, because it proceeds from him, and is procured by him, John 14:26 John 16:7 Galatians 4:6. When he saith such a one is none of Christ’s, he means, that he doth not peculiarly belong to Christ, he hath no special interest in him, is no true member of him. As a merchant sets his seal upon his goods, so doth Christ his Spirit upon his followers, Ephesians 1:13.

If Christ be in you; before he said, the Spirit of God and Christ dwelt in them; here, Christ himself. Christ dwells in believers by his Spirit.

Henry Alford

the Spirit of Christ (= πν. θεοῦ above. Obs. here that πν. θεοῦ, πν. χριστοῦ, and χριστός, are all used of the Holy Spirit indwelling in the Christian),

Charles Spurgeon

“If any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.” If he has not the Holy Ghost really dwelling in him, guiding him, directing him, teaching him, comforting him, supporting him, he is none of Christ’s. And if we do not exhibit the Spirit of Christ in our character,-if we have not gentleness, meekness, purity, holiness, benevolence, we are none of Christ’s.

William Burkitt

That the Holy Ghost is called the Spirit of Christ passively, and by way of reception, as being bestowed upon him, and received by him; also actively, and by way of collation, as being bestowed by him, and conveyed from him.
If Christ be in you, that is by his Holy Spirit, the body is dead, that is, still subject to death, because of sin,

Justin Edwards

The Spirit of Christ; the Holy Spirit, producing in him in some measure a likeness to Christ, and leading him earnestly to desire that it may be perfected.
If Christ be in you; by his Spirit, producing in you a likeness to himself.

William Godbey

9. “You are not in carnality, but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwelleth in you. But if any one have not the Spirit of Christ, he is not his.” Here we have a beautiful and lucid affirmation of the divine unity. “Spirit” occurring three times in this verse. First, He is the Holy Spirit, in the second place, the Spirit of the Father; and in the third instance, the Spirit of the Son, and identical throughout, illustrating clearly the identity of the three persons constituting the Godhead, and the identity of the Spirit of the Father, Son and Holy Ghost. The same is clearly revealed in Acts 5, where Holy Ghost, in Romans 8:3, God, in Romans 8:4, and Spirit of the Lord, i. e., Christ, in Romans 8:9, are all used synonymously. It is exceedingly pertinent for us to be specific at this point, as some have gotten tangled discriminating between the Spirit of Jesus and the Holy Ghost and the Spirit of God, and gone off into the tri-theistic heresy to their spiritual detriment.

Robert Haldane

Verse 9
The same Spirit that is called the Spirit of God in the preceding part of the sentence, is in this latter part called the Spirit of Christ, because Christ having, by virtue of His sacrifice, obtained the Spirit for His people, sends Him into their hearts, John 16:7. Christ, then, who sends the Holy Spirit, must be God. Every Christian has the Spirit of Christ dwelling in him. When Christ takes possession of any man as His, He puts His Holy Spirit within him. Without the presence of His Spirit, we can have no interest in Christ.

This Written by William Godbey was closer but not fully.

"Here we have a beautiful and lucid affirmation of the divine unity. “Spirit” occurring three times in this verse. First, He is the Holy Spirit, in the second place, the Spirit of the Father; and in the third instance, the Spirit of the Son, and identical throughout, illustrating clearly the identity of the three persons constituting the Godhead, and the identity of the Spirit of the Father, Son and Holy Ghost”

We see all three in many verses in scripture and each has their work and ministration in us and for us and toward us.

We read of the three in various parts of scripture and how they work and communicate in their distinct places.

2 Corinthians 13 - 14. The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the communion of the Holy Ghost, be with you all. Amen.”

Matthew 28 - 19. Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:”

Ephesians 1 - 2. Grace be to you, and peace, from God our Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ. 3. Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:”

LoveofTruth · Dec 17, 2018

Fixing some typos and wording in my post be patient with me.

swordsman1 · Dec 17, 2018

LoveofTruth said:
Again as I said, these are high, deep things and we can barely grasp the depth. But the scriptures I showed you are there as proof of all that I said. Which are only known as the Spirit teaches.

I believe I have already said that I believe the Trinity, I believe that God is one in essence and substance of being, yet God exist in three persons, but one God. There is only one God; the Father is God, the Son is God and the Holy Ghost is God. These three are one. There are three coeternal, coequal, divine, distinct, but not separate personal moral agents in the Godhead. there is one God in being who eternally exists as three distinct though not separate Persons. That God is one in essence and three in person, or three persons in one God.

"7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one."(1 John 5:7 KJV). And yes I believe that verse should be in the bible. No sense in getting into a ten page discussion of that text right now, I'm sure you can find answers in many places.

I do not believe in Tritheism. This heresy rejects the idea of one God in being. It teaches that there are three separate beings in three different God’s. I reject this view. Even though you falsely try to associate me with this.

I certainly do not believe in Arianism even though you falsely try to associate me with this.. Those who taught this heresy denied the divinity of Christ They taught that there was a time when the Son was not and that the Son was created by the Father. I deny this heresy.

You error again in your comments and did not deal with the clear scriptures I gave. You seem to be trying to deflect again and to create another discussion about the beloved Trinity doctrine which I believe and teach and hold firmly to.

I showed very clearly what scripture teaches about Christ. We read that Jesus Christ came in the flesh. This is speaking of the Word made flesh this is the Son of God that came, and this is Jesus Christ. So the word “Christ” is connected to the incarnation and not specifically to the Father or the Holy Ghost.
Show me a scripture where the Father came in the flesh or the Holy Ghost came in the flesh and you may have a case. But I do not find any such scriptures.

We do not read that the Father came in the flesh, if some say that then they teach the “patripassianism” heresy. That "patripassianism, is the belief that God the Father suffered and died on the cross along with God the Son, or that the Father suffered as the Son. I do not agree with this either.

If a person says that the Holy Ghost came in the flesh, then they would in effect not be acknowledging that the Son of God (Jesus Christ), who is the Word made flesh (John 1:14 KJV) came in the flesh. They would not be saying that "Christ came in the flesh" in effect because Christ identity would not be the same as scripture shows. For they would not specifically see “Christ” as the Son of God and the incarnation would be misunderstood. This is why this issue is serious.

But we know that God so loved the world that he gave His only begotten Son and only when Jesus Christ accomplished his work was the Holy Ghost was poured out in all flesh.

Do you believe the Son always was and that the Son was "WITH" the Father before the world was? (John 17:5). The word "with" -means "beside, face to face, near". If the Son was "with" the Father before he came to the earth and we know there is only one God in being how do you understand the person of the Son? Is the Son Spirit and still one in being with the Father as I believe. If the Son is not Spirit what is the Son? Yes, the Son Of God is now God manifest in the flesh. I am speaking of His person before he came to the Earth and how the "Son" is in us.

You use the word "persons" as I do when speaking of the Father the Son and the Holy Ghost, yet how do you understand three persons? We see the Son speaking to the Father and the Father speaking to the Son and the Holy Ghost speaking as well. All distinct though not separate persons in the Godhead. One God in being three in person. We also see this that I stated to you

Jesus is the Christ is a clear truth as we see in scripture. And the warning in scripture is also true when we read "22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist,.." . Jesus is the Word of God made flesh. The Father the Word and the Holy Ghost are distinct but One God. John uses the word "these three are one". How are they three and how are they distinct persons who communicate to eachother?

Part of the issue is to understand what Spirit is. And how "these THREE are ONE”. We see some examples in life about this but none give an exact understanding. We hear of things like time, space and matter yet one universe. Or in time past, present and future yet one time. Solid, liquid and gas yet one matter. Protron, nuetron and electron on atom. Body, soul and spirit yet one being. Height, x length x breadth yet one space. Each distinct yet all one.

In This passage in the Old Testament we see all three and each a distinct person though all one God in being. God is a Spirit, Yet There is communication within the God head as seen in the scripture below. This is a strong Trinity passage.

"12 Hearken unto me, O Jacob and Israel, my called; I am he; I am the first, I also am the last. 13 Mine hand also hath laid the foundation of the earth, and my right hand hath spanned the heavens: when I call unto them, they stand up together. 14 All ye, assemble yourselves, and hear; which among them hath declared these things? The Lord hath loved him: he will do his pleasure on Babylon, and his arm shall be on the Chaldeans. 15 I, even I, have spoken; yea, I have called him: I have brought him, and he shall make his way prosperous. 16 Come ye near unto me, hear ye this; I have not spoken in secret from the beginning; from the time that it was, there am I: and now the Lord God, and his Spirit, hath sent me. 17 Thus saith the Lord, thy Redeemer, the Holy One of Israel; I am the Lord thy God which teacheth thee to profit, which leadeth thee by the way that thou shouldest go."(Isaiah 48:12-17 KJV)

Here we see the Lord God speaking of the Lord God and His Spirit sending Him. These three are one Lord God , yet three persons.

You said you believe the Holy Spirit, the Spirit of Christ, and the Spirit of the Father are separate Spirits. That is an aspect of Arianism and Tritheism theology. It is a false teaching. There is only ONE Spirit, sometimes known as the Holy Spirit in scripture, sometimes the Spirit of Christ, and sometimes the Spirit of the Father/God. And when believers are indwelt by the Spirit, aka the Spirit of Christ, this is what it means for Christ to be "in" us. As I have previously shown from scripture, but which you still deny.

LoveofTruth said:
None of these verses you quoted deny anything I said or the verses i quoted. Each one is in a specific context. We go to the father through Jesus Christ by the Holy Ghost. The Holy Ghost baptizes us into the body of Christ. We are immersed into Jesus Christ by the Spirit as 1 Cor 12:13 says.

The verses I quoted say there is ONE Spirit, not three separate Spirits.

LoveofTruth said:
This is saying just that. You also repeated it again further down and said

"But if my words are not enough to convince you that the Spirit of Christ is the Holy Spirit"

You seem to say it very clearly. I see this almost as denying that Jesus Christ came in the flesh. Almost, because you do not identify who Christ is specifically and say he is or = the Holy Ghost who is or = Christ in you. This is not being false in my accusation. You say it very clearly, and you are not saying that the Holy Ghost is the Spirit of Christ and if If Christ in believers is not the Holy Ghost then who is he?. In essence you are saying that Christ is the Holy Ghost. At least from your words.
But show me one verse that says the Holy Ghost came in the flesh? The Word of God was with God and was God and the Word was made flesh. Who do you understand the Word of God to be? The Word made flesh is Jesus Christ come in the flesh, God manifest in the flesh, the Son of God sent down from heaven by the Father.

We also read that

"3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; 4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:"(1 Corinthians 15:3,4 KJV)

This is a reference to the Son of God, Jesus Christ who died for our sins. It does not say the Father died on the cross or the Holy Ghost. If you say the Christ is the Holy Ghost as you seem to be saying all over, then the Holy Ghost would have been referred to in this verse.

If the Holy Ghost=the Spirit of Christ and this is Christ in you, then what are saying sounds similar to the Oneness heresy that they are not distinct persons in the Godhead more like modes or changing hats.

God the Father sent the Son. We do not read that the Holy Ghost was sent as the Son was in the flesh. I showed you that if a person denies that Jesus Christ came in the flesh that is a heresy and false view (1 John 4:1-3 KJV)

No I didn't say Christ is the Holy Spirit. You are still trying to twist my words. I said the Spirit of Christ is the Holy Spirit. Christ is the 2nd person of the Trinity. And his Spirit, aka the Holy Spirit, is the 3rd person. The Spirit of Christ, the Holy Spirit, indwells all believers, and thus Christ is "in" us. Scripture is quite clear on this, as I have shown. It is not Oneness theology. Rather it is affirmed by the universally accepted Athanasian Creed, and as well as every respected Christian theologian out there.

LoveofTruth said:
The question is who is Christ? I showed very very clearly by many scriptures which you seem to ignore that JESUS is the Christ and that Jesus Christ is in all believers. I also showed that Jesus Christ came in the flesh.

And I have never said otherwise. It seems you are trying to build a strawman to deflect attention away from the errors in your theology.

LoveofTruth said:
Also showed that all believers have BOTH the Father and the Son in them. How do you understand if we have both in us?

The Holy Spirit proceeds from both the Father and the Son, as the Athenasian Creed says. He is therefore known as both the Spirit of Christ and the Spirit of the Father/God. They are not 2 seperate Spirits. They are ONE Spirit (Eph 2:18, Eph 4:4, 1 Cor 12:13).

LoveofTruth said:
One point is seen in the seed of Abraham. We read

"16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ...
28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. 29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise."(Galatians 3:16,28,29 KJV)

Notice that the seed of Abraham is Christ and this is the seed in every believer also. But we know that Abraham did not have the Holy Ghost baptism yet for the Spirit baptism was not yet given. But he did have Christ in him as all believers today do. All believers in the Old Testament were born again by the word of God this is a spiritual birth where God dwells in His children. But, “If any man have not the Spirit of Christ he is none of His.” This would include Abraham and all those from the beginning of the world who were saved. If they did not have the Spirit of Christ they were none of His. Do you want to say that Abraham and all the Old Testament saints did not belong to Christ and were none of His? I would not say such a thing.

That passage doesn't say that Abraham had Christ in him. Nor does it say Abraham's "seed in every believer". Once again you are reading your own ideas into the passage which are not in the text.

And no, Rom 8:9 would not necessarily apply to OT saints. You are using the KJV terminology "any man" (which means 'anyone') to make it seem like it must apply to all humans. That is the same trick Pentecostals employ for claiming that no human can understand tongues in 1 Cor 14:2. In Rom 8:9 the context is people in the present, not people in the past. Note the present tenses throughout. So it is referring to anyone in the current era.

LoveofTruth · Dec 17, 2018

To all:

Consider

Jesus asked,

Matthew 16 - 15. He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am? 16. And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.”

Here we see who Christ is he is Jesus the Son of God.
Can we say that Christ is the Holy Ghost sent at that Time?

The answer:

Jesus said,

John 7:37-39 “In the last day, that great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried, saying, If any man thirst, let him come unto me, and drink. 38. He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water. 39. (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)”

Many things are shown here.

1. We see that the Holy Ghost was not yet given. So when Peter said Jesus is the Christ the Son of God the word “Christ” there cannot refer to the Holy Ghost.

2. Jesus told men to come unto him and drink. This would be the water of life, or word. Jesus said the words that he spoke were Spirit and life (John 6:63 KJV). To have the water of life from Jesus means you are born again by the word of God in the spirit. Jesus then said that those who believe on him shall have living water flow out of their belly’s.
As I understand this, it is The Holy Ghost who immersed believers into the body of Christ (1Cor 12:13) an Jesus who baptised with the Holy Ghost. They would already have to have Christ in them to be empowered by Jesus from within. We read some verses about this here,

Luke 3:16 “ John answered, saying unto them all, I indeed baptize you with water; but one mightier than I cometh, the latchet of whose shoes I am not worthy to unloose: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost and with fire.”

We see here that Jesys baptizes with the Holy Ghost. The Holy Ghost was not yet given as we read in John 7.

3. Jesus said that those who believed in him (whom he had given the water of life to drink) would already be saved and have eternal life (if they were to continue in him as they abide in him John 15). To be saved would mean that they had the Spirit of Christ ir else they were none of His (Romans 8) And Jesus speaks of men who were to believe on him While he was alive and spoke to many very clearly, he said,

John 5 - 24. Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.”

swordsman1 · Dec 17, 2018

LoveofTruth said:
The Spirit of Christ refers to His work also in the hearts of men. I spoke previously about Christ in Deuteronomy 30 where Paul shows that Christ was speaking and working in them and near to them Compare again Romans 10 with Deuteronomy 30 KJV). And if Christ was in them hidden in mystery since the beginning then this was not the Holy Ghost baptism yet. Even though the Holy Ghost did work and move and empower men in the Old Testament as well. This understanding of Deuteronomy 30 and Romans 10 is speaking of the word of God that is near them, this is the seed sown. This is Christ the Son in his pre incarnate work.

Here is this example comparrison again, notice that Paul interprets (not re writes) the scripture giving the hidden mystery in the verse, showing that Christ was there hidden and in men's hearts and speaking and working. Paul shows the connection in Romans 10. I will post the verses from Dueteronomy firts, then Paul's revealing of the mystery then the verses again in Duet, 30 to show how this is understood.*no re writing scripture simply following Paul's words there. Paul also said that the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made us free from the law of sin and death. This freedom is inward in the heart and new man.

Deut 30:10-14 KJV
"10 If thou shalt hearken unto the voice of the Lord thy God, to keep his commandments and his statutes which are written in this book of the law, and if thou turn unto the Lord thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul. 11 For this commandment which I command thee this day, it is not hidden from thee, neither is it far off. 12 It is not in heaven, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go up for us to heaven, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it? 13 Neither is it beyond the sea, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go over the sea for us, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it? 14 But the word is very nigh unto thee, in thy mouth, and in thy heart, that thou mayest do it."Dueteronomy 30:10-14 KJV)

Romans 10:6-8 KJV
"6 But the righteousness which is of faith speaketh on this wise, Say not in thine heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ down from above:) 7 Or, Who shall descend into the deep? (that is, to bring up Christ again from the dead.) 8 But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;" The word that was given to Paul to preach came from the word of Christ in His heart. Paul spoke to believers at another church to "Let the Word of Christ dwell in you" (Colossians 3:16 KJV)

Now look at Deuteronomy again with the revelation of the mystery,

Deut 30:10-14 KJV
""10 If thou shalt hearken unto the voice of the Lord thy God, to keep his commandments and his statutes which are written in this book of the law, and if thou turn unto the Lord thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul. 11 For this commandment which I command thee this day, Christ is not hidden from thee, neither is Christ far off. 12 Christ is not in heaven, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go up for us to heaven, and bring Christ unto us, that we may hear Christ, and do Christ? 13 Neither is Christ beyond the sea, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go over the sea for us, and bring Christ unto us, that we may hear Christ, and do Christ? 14 But the word of Christ is very nigh unto thee, in thy mouth, and in thy heart, that thou mayest do it."Dueteronomy 30:10-14 KJV)

Consider this and it may help to clarify what I have been saying.

I've previously explained your error in regard to Rom 10 and Deut 30...
Paul is not giving us an exegesis of Deut 30, let alone changing it's plain meaning (the Law not being difficult to attain). The fact that Paul only provides a partial and very loose paraphrase of Deut 30:11-14 should make that obvious enough. The phrases from Deut 30 that he quotes (Who will ascend into heaven? Who will descend into the deep?) had become proverbial sayings for something that is not difficult to attain. And it is in that sense that Paul quotes those phrases to make the point that finding Christ is similarly not difficult. His intention is not to interpret Deut 30, but to use its language to make a comparison. Forcing that allusion back into Deut 30 and altering the plain meaning of that passage is a theological travesty.

It seems the only way you can try to argue for Christ indwelling men in the OT is by performing highly dubious theological acrobatics on obscure passages such as these two.

LoveofTruth said:
Matthew 10:20
For it is not ye that speak, but the Spirit of your Father which speaketh in you." (The Holy Ghost baptism was not yet given, yet they could still have the Spirit of the Father speak in them. Why would the scripture be written this way and say “the Spirit of the Father”. Why not write it as you are implying and say “the Spirit of God” here or ”the Holy Ghost”. Jesus speaks specifically of the work of the Spirit of Father here.

You are taking that verse out of context. Jesus is predicting what would happen to believers in the future, after Pentecost. Here's the full passage..

Beware of men, for they will deliver you over to courts and flog you in their synagogues, and you will be dragged before governors and kings for my sake, to bear witness before them and the Gentiles. But when they hand you over, do not worry about how or what you are to say; for it will be given you in that hour what you are to say. For it is not you who speak, but it is the Spirit of your Father who speaks in you.

When believers are dragged before the courts the Holy Spirit (the Spirit of the Father here) will give them the words to say as a special enabling. No disciple was dragged before the courts before Pentecost.

LoveofTruth said:
Galatians 4:6
"And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father." Again, as we saw with the words, “the Spirit of the Father” we see “the Spirit of the Son” here also. Paul did not say the “Spirit of the Father” in this case showing again distinct persons and yet One God in being.

This verse is one of the proofs that the Spirit of Christ is the Holy Spirit. It is a repetition of the statement Paul made in Rom 8:15-16, except this time it is not the Spirit of Christ, but the Holy Spirit by whom we cry Abba Father. Clearly the Holy Spirit and the Spirit of Christ are synonymous terms.

Rom 8:15-16 "For you did not receive the spirit of slavery to fall back into fear, but you have received the Spirit of adoption as sons, by whom we cry, “Abba! Father!” The Spirit himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God,"

And that is not the only proof that Spirit of Christ is the Holy Spirit. Look at 1 Peter 1:10-11. It says that the "Spirit of Christ" was speaking through the OT prophets.

1 Peter 1:10-11 Concerning this salvation, the prophets who prophesied about the grace that was to be yours searched and inquired carefully, inquiring what person or time the Spirit of Christ in them was indicating when he predicted the sufferings of Christ and the subsequent glories.

But we know from 2 Peter 1:21 that it was the Holy Spirit who spoke through the OT prophets:

2 Peter 1:21 For no prophecy was ever produced by the will of man, but men spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit.

Then look at John 16:7-8 where Jesus promises the Holy Spirit will come to the disciples at Pentecost:

John 16:7 "for if I do not go away, the Helper will not come to you. But if I go, I will send him to you."

But in John 14:18-20, Jesus says it is He himself who will come to them at Pentecost, and remain in them.

John 14:18-20 “I will not leave you as orphans; I will come to you. Yet a little while and the world will see me no more, but you will see me. Because I live, you also will live. In that day you will know that I am in my Father, and you in me, and I in you.

That's on top of the 20 or so commentators I quoted that have decisively proved it from Rom 8:9-11 also.

swordsman1 · Dec 17, 2018

LoveofTruth said:
It doesn't matter if you quote a hundred men I simply believe the witness of God in my Spirit and the Holy scriptures as I have shown..

You know this is the case. If you or I were talking to a Catholic and disagreeing with things they may quote 500 witnesses from their understanding and say they are right because of it. But that would not mean they were right.

That's rather hypocritical when you were only too keen to quote (or misquote) a couple of those commentators yourself when you thought it might support your argument.

But what it shows is that your thinking is way outside of Christian orthodoxy. Can you show us ANY respected commentators that share your views about the Spirit of Christ? When all the great theologians disagree with you, don't you think it's time to admit you might be wrong? Or will you continue to plough a lonely furrow?

LoveofTruth · Dec 17, 2018

swordsman1 said:
You said you believe the Holy Spirit, the Spirit of Christ, and the Spirit of the Father are separate Spirits. That is an aspect of Arianism and Tritheism theology. It is a false teaching.

You need to repent for your false accusation here. You seem to be on the run here and your theology is failng. So you resort to just plain lies, that's unfortunate.

Even in the quote you have in your response I said
"...but not separate personal moral agents in the Godhead. there is one God in being who eternally exists as three distinct though not separate Persons. That God is one in essence and three in person, or three persons in one God.

Just making up lies won't help your case.

You seem to be leaning more to the Onness doctrine than the Trinity. From my observation and you seem to be almost denying that Jesus Christ came in the flesh. I say Christ here referring to the Word made flesh, the Son of God, not the father come in the flesh or the Holy Ghost. But you seem to say the Holy Ghost is Christ who came in the flesh.

I also said in the very post of mine you quoted

I do not believe in Tritheism. This heresy rejects the idea of one God in being. It teaches that there are three separate beings in three different God’s. I reject this view. Even though you falsely try to associate me with this.

I certainly do not believe in Arianism even though you falsely try to associate me with this.. Those who taught this heresy denied the divinity of Christ They taught that there was a time when the Son was not and that the Son was created by the Father. I deny this heresy."

I wonder if you actually read what I post carefully.

LoveofTruth · Dec 17, 2018

swordsman1 said:
There is only ONE Spirit, sometimes known as the Holy Spirit in scripture, sometimes the Spirit of Christ, and sometimes the Spirit of the Father/God. And when believers are indwelt by the Spirit, aka the Spirit of Christ, this is what it means for Christ to be "in" us. As I have previously shown from scripture, but which you still deny.

Again, I spoke of God being one in being and three in person. If you read my post you

"I believe the Trinity, I believe that God is one in essence and substance of being, yet God exist in three persons, but one God. There is only one God; the Father is God, the Son is God and the Holy Ghost is God. These three are one. There are three coeternal, coequal, divine, distinct, but not separate personal moral agents in the Godhead. there is one God in being who eternally exists as three distinct though not separate Persons. That God is one in essence and three in person, or three persons in one God."

and you seem to simply ignore verses like these, if you even have them in your bible.

"7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one."

The Word was made flesh and the Word is eternal life ( 1 John 1:1,2 5:20 KJV). The Word is Christ the Son of God. We never read the Father coming in the flesh or dying on the cross or the Holy Ghost doing this. To say so or imply so is a heresy and false doctrine.

swordsman1 · Dec 17, 2018

LoveofTruth said:
You need to repent for your false accusation here. You seem to be on the run here and your theology is failng. So you resort to just plain lies, that's unfortunate.

Even in the quote you have in your response I said
"...but not separate personal moral agents in the Godhead. there is one God in being who eternally exists as three distinct though not separate Persons. That God is one in essence and three in person, or three persons in one God.

Just making up lies won't help your case.

You seem to be leaning more to the Onness doctrine than the Trinity. From my observation and you seem to be almost denying that Jesus Christ came in the flesh. I say Christ here referring to the Word made flesh, the Son of God, not the father come in the flesh or the Holy Ghost. But you seem to say the Holy Ghost is Christ who came in the flesh.

I also said in the very post of mine you quoted

I do not believe in Tritheism. This heresy rejects the idea of one God in being. It teaches that there are three separate beings in three different God’s. I reject this view. Even though you falsely try to associate me with this.

I certainly do not believe in Arianism even though you falsely try to associate me with this.. Those who taught this heresy denied the divinity of Christ They taught that there was a time when the Son was not and that the Son was created by the Father. I deny this heresy."

I wonder if you actually read what I post carefully.

Then why are you still claiming that the Spirit of Christ is not the Holy Spirit? If they are not the same thing, then they must be separate Spirits.

LoveofTruth · Dec 17, 2018

swordsman1 said:
And when believers are indwelt by the Spirit, aka the Spirit of Christ, this is what it means for Christ to be "in" us. As I have previously shown from scripture, but which you still deny."

I do not deny that Jesus Christ is in believers and I would say that if any man (from Adam until to day) has not the Spirit of Christ he is none of Hos.

But you cannot answer such verses like these which speak of the Father and the Son in believers

"7 For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist. 8 Look to yourselves, that we lose not those things which we have wrought, but that we receive a full reward. 9 Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son."(2 John 7-9 KJV)

"22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son. 23 Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also. 24 Let that therefore abide in you, which ye have heard from the beginning. If that which ye have heard from the beginning shall remain in you, ye also shall continue in the Son, and in the Father."1 John 2:22-24 KJV)

LoveofTruth · Dec 17, 2018

swordsman1 said:
Then why are you still claiming that the Spirit of Christ is not the Holy Spirit? If they are not the same thing, then they must be separate Spirits.

I never use the word "separate".

The Holy Ghost was not yet given when Peter said that Jesus was the CHRIST the Son of God, and this was revealed by the Father. Peter was in effect saying that the Word made flesh is the Christ the Son of God.

There are three that bear record in heaven the Father the Word and the Holy Ghost. The Word is God and was made flesh and sent by the Father. This is Christ the Son of God. The Son of God understanding relates to his eternal Sonship with the Father as the Son of God the Christ he is without beginning of days, He as the Son is before all things and by Him all things consist. The Son is God the Son and before he came to the world in the flesh he is Spirit as God is a Spirit. Unless you can fully explain what Spirit is and How God can be One God in three persons. Then you will only be able to see as all believers do the revelation of the Spirit from what scripture shows.

But again, I never use the word "separate Spirits". That's how you are thinking about them because you have trouble as all do with how three can be one God. We see clearly in scripture the Father speaks to the Son and the Son to the Father and they are oviously in some way distinct aspect but yet the same one God. We see at Jesus baptism the father speaking from heaven, the Holy Ghost descending like a dove and Jesus the Word of God made flesh in the water. That would seem to be distinct to me. But even in that I don't say "separate, because that would not make them one as Jesus said and as God spoke through John in 1 John 5:7 and other places.

We don't walk by sight but by faith.

Jesus said I and my Father are one. He stressed the One God, but also the "I" and my "Father" part as well.

We only can see in parts like through a glass darkly. But then face to face we shall know as we are known, we shall apprehend (perceive) as we are apprehended (perceived) of Christ Jesus.

We have a body soul and spirit yet we are one being.

The Rule of faith and practice is not scripture "alone"

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Christ builds His church from within us

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Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.

Christ builds His church from within us

Christ builds His church from within us

Christ builds His church from within us

Christ builds His church from within us

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Christ builds His church from within us

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Christ builds His church from within us

Christ builds His church from within us

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Christ builds His church from within us

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