the beast that was, and is not, and yet is...

Choose Wisely · Dec 16, 2018

Type after the /QUOTE]

Dave Watchman · Dec 16, 2018

Type after the /QUOTE]

Choose Wisely said:
I thought you made a nice post till you got to this part.

The eighth king is of the 7 and he is an Assyrian and the King of Babylon.

.

brasyliam · Dec 16, 2018

Hi CW,
Unless my words were unclear... that is what I'm saying.

I get this from Isaiah 14:4...That thou shalt take up this proverb against the king of Babylon, and say, How hath the oppressor ceased! the golden city ceased!

And these are important verses as it is in the context of the last days and this king of Babylon is coupled with Lucifer, who also is called a "man" in theses texts... which is another support to my thesis in that when Satan avatars that man of sin... he is both man, king and angel. But he is seen as a man and the king of Babylon, one of the epithets God uses for him... as is the Assyrian used here in the context of the last days and another epithet for the beast, found also in Isaiah 14:25... That I will break the Assyrian in my land, and upon my mountains tread him under foot: then shall his yoke depart from off them, and his burden depart from off their shoulders.

So yes, essentially that is what I'm saying... the 7th king is that man of sin. After the fatal head wound he is avatared by Satan, and they together become the 8th king ... but is of the 7... which that 7 can also be translated as 7th. The 8th king is of the 7th king, but there are only 7 kings. The 2 are made one. This is my thesis.

Which makes sense of Isaiah 14 if this is true. It always mystified scholars, as well as myself, how Lucifer is referred to as a man. Starting in verse 9. these details are phenomenal... It's a lot of reading and most of you have read them perhaps many times, but I find it all so provocative...

Hell from beneath is moved for thee to meet thee at thy coming: it stirreth up the dead for thee, even all the chief ones of the earth; it hath raised up from their thrones all the kings of the nations.

All they shall speak and say unto thee, Art thou also become weak as we? art thou become like unto us?

Thy pomp is brought down to the grave, and the noise of thy viols: the worm is spread under thee, and the worms cover thee.

How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!

For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:

I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.

Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.

They that see thee shall narrowly look upon thee, and consider thee, saying, Is this the man that made the earth to tremble, that did shake kingdoms;

That made the world as a wilderness, and destroyed the cities thereof; that opened not the house of his prisoners?

All the kings of the nations, even all of them, lie in glory, every one in his own house.

But thou art cast out of thy grave like an abominable branch, and as the raiment of those that are slain, thrust through with a sword, that go down to the stones of the pit; as a carcase trodden under feet.

Thou shalt not be joined with them in burial, because thou hast destroyed thy land, and slain thy people: the seed of evildoers shall never be renowned.

Prepare slaughter for his children for the iniquity of their fathers; that they do not rise, nor possess the land, nor fill the face of the world with cities.

For I will rise up against them, saith the LORD of hosts, and cut off from Babylon the name, and remnant, and son, and nephew, saith the LORD.

Thank you for your question CW.
I think I was all over the map maybe with the answer...lol... but this stuff is in fact intricate is it not.

Revealing Times · Dec 16, 2018

Choose Wisely said:
I thought you made a nice post till you got to this part.

The eighth king is of the 7 and he is an Assyrian and the King of Babylon.

We clearly know the 8th King is a Demon brother, thus he is of the SEVEN, and he comes up out of the Bottomless Pit. The Assyrian of Isaiah 10, has to be born in one of the Four Generals Kingdoms, that is why we are given Dan. ch. 11, he will be the last King of the North. Then he must come to power out of the Fourth Beasts Head just like Dan. 7 say's.

Babylon will never be inhabited again. The Babylon spoken of in Revelation refers to the whole world under Satan's rule.

brasyliam · Dec 16, 2018

EJ M said:
Welcome to CF!
Did you develop this rational yourself or did you get it somewhere else?
I think you did a good job except the music is a bit loud.

Thank you. So sorry for the audio. On some devices the music is too quiet. I hate that.
It was a simple curiosity that developed as I dug deeper. As pieces unfolded, as in the parts about Alexander and his 4 generals, which I was quite familiar, but not in the context of Rev. 17, my first response was... well anyone would know this and there will be plenty of scholars that have known this since John first wrote it... and I could just be lazy and read their research. Never found anyone to this day. Being more convinced as I studied for the years that followed, I first did a website, that I regret having stopped now. Then I approached several well known eschatologists but it is impossible to go quickly into what actually comes off as a brain teaser... the beast that was is not yet is, there are 7 kings five are fallen one is.... etc. And you know yourselves... how many are really interested? So... I did a documentary. Took me 11 months to do it with having to go deeper into research, rewrites upon rewrites, and grabbing the time to do it.

I had every intention of doing an Epilogue. I wanted to tie up some loose ends, add some important scriptures that were left out, but mainly to try and soften the end of the documentary. It doesn't really get any darker than that. A few weeks went by with my trying to think of words to pull the viewer into the hope of God. But every word I came up with seemed a condescension, a patronizing. And then I suddenly felt... well, for whatever I got right or got wrong.. some things can't be gotten around... God says He will send strong delusion, He says most of the world will choose the one that comes in his own name, that they will worship the dragon, sends gifts to each other when the 2 witnesses are killed... etc. etc. So I thought maybe God doesn't want an epilogue to this... maybe some will be make a move towards God through being made aware of just how dark it will be.

Each time I have listened to the last words in the documentary.. it breaks me into. Because I too would that none perish, but would all come to the truth.

Thank you for your question.

shilohsfoal · Dec 16, 2018

I know of a kingdom tat once existed before john wrote revelation,but at thetime he wrote it,that kingdom didnot exist.Now thatit is close to the end it has reappeared and many people worship it.
This kingdom had been ruled by seven other kingdoms.
Five of those kingdoms had fallen before John wrote revelation and one was when he wrote it.Another kingdom rose and continued a short space .
The kingdom im speaking of declared its independence from that kingdom which continueda shortspace after itgained idependence.

Who can name that kingdom that once existed and then did not and yet is today?

Choose Wisely · Dec 16, 2018

brasyliam said:
Which makes sense of Isaiah 14 if this is true. It always mystified scholars, as well as myself, how Lucifer is referred to as a man. Starting in verse 9. these details are phenomenal... It's a lot of reading and most of you have read them perhaps many times, but I find it all so provocative...

Hell from beneath is moved for thee to meet thee at thy coming: it stirreth up the dead for thee, even all the chief ones of the earth; it hath raised up from their thrones all the kings of the nations.

All they shall speak and say unto thee, Art thou also become weak as we? art thou become like unto us?

Thy pomp is brought down to the grave, and the noise of thy viols: the worm is spread under thee, and the worms cover thee.

How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!

For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:

I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.

Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.

They that see thee shall narrowly look upon thee, and consider thee, saying, Is this the man that made the earth to tremble, that did shake kingdoms;

That made the world as a wilderness, and destroyed the cities thereof; that opened not the house of his prisoners?

All the kings of the nations, even all of them, lie in glory, every one in his own house.

But thou art cast out of thy grave like an abominable branch, and as the raiment of those that are slain, thrust through with a sword, that go down to the stones of the pit; as a carcase trodden under feet.

Thou shalt not be joined with them in burial, because thou hast destroyed thy land, and slain thy people: the seed of evildoers shall never be renowned.

Prepare slaughter for his children for the iniquity of their fathers; that they do not rise, nor possess the land, nor fill the face of the world with cities.

For I will rise up against them, saith the LORD of hosts, and cut off from Babylon the name, and remnant, and son, and nephew, saith the LORD.

Thank you for your question CW.
I think I was all over the map maybe with the answer...lol... but this stuff is in fact intricate is it not.

I got the gist of your answer but think that you are missing the most important verses with regards to who this person is.
Isaiah 14
7 The whole earth is at rest, and is quiet: they break forth into singing.

8 Yea, the fir trees rejoice at thee, and the cedars of Lebanon, saying, Since thou art laid down, no feller is come up against us.

brasyliam · Dec 16, 2018

I'm sorry, I don't know. But my thesis rejects that we are dealing with kingdoms. I believe the 7 kings are kings... men.

Choose Wisely · Dec 16, 2018

brasyliam said:
Hi CW,
Unless my words were unclear... that is what I'm saying.

I get this from Isaiah 14:4...That thou shalt take up this proverb against the king of Babylon, and say, How hath the oppressor ceased! the golden city ceased!

And these are important verses as it is in the context of the last days and this king of Babylon is coupled with Lucifer, who also is called a "man" in theses texts... which is another support to my thesis in that when Satan avatars that man of sin... he is both man, king and angel. But he is seen as a man and the king of Babylon, one of the epithets God uses for him... as is the Assyrian used here in the context of the last days and another epithet for the beast, found also in Isaiah 14:25... That I will break the Assyrian in my land, and upon my mountains tread him under foot: then shall his yoke depart from off them, and his burden depart from off their shoulders.

So yes, essentially that is what I'm saying... the 7th king is that man of sin. After the fatal head wound he is avatared by Satan, and they together become the 8th king ... but is of the 7... which that 7 can also be translated as 7th. The 8th king is of the 7th king, but there are only 7 kings. The 2 are made one. This is my thesis.

Which makes sense of Isaiah 14 if this is true. It always mystified scholars, as well as myself, how Lucifer is referred to as a man. Starting in verse 9. these details are phenomenal... It's a lot of reading and most of you have read them perhaps many times, but I find it all so provocative...

Hell from beneath is moved for thee to meet thee at thy coming: it stirreth up the dead for thee, even all the chief ones of the earth; it hath raised up from their thrones all the kings of the nations.

All they shall speak and say unto thee, Art thou also become weak as we? art thou become like unto us?

Thy pomp is brought down to the grave, and the noise of thy viols: the worm is spread under thee, and the worms cover thee.

How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!

For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:

I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.

Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.

They that see thee shall narrowly look upon thee, and consider thee, saying, Is this the man that made the earth to tremble, that did shake kingdoms;

That made the world as a wilderness, and destroyed the cities thereof; that opened not the house of his prisoners?

All the kings of the nations, even all of them, lie in glory, every one in his own house.

But thou art cast out of thy grave like an abominable branch, and as the raiment of those that are slain, thrust through with a sword, that go down to the stones of the pit; as a carcase trodden under feet.

Thou shalt not be joined with them in burial, because thou hast destroyed thy land, and slain thy people: the seed of evildoers shall never be renowned.

Prepare slaughter for his children for the iniquity of their fathers; that they do not rise, nor possess the land, nor fill the face of the world with cities.

For I will rise up against them, saith the LORD of hosts, and cut off from Babylon the name, and remnant, and son, and nephew, saith the LORD.

Thank you for your question CW.
I think I was all over the map maybe with the answer...lol... but this stuff is in fact intricate is it not.

Secondly..........there is a confusion in the translation. The translation should say DAY STAR or MORNING STAR, not Lucifer. From what I can gather it is translated as lucifer in the Latin Vulgate. Apparently the translators of the KJV were not sure what to make of it and used lucifer.......day star or morning star as a proper name Lucifer. Then there is a confusion when the Bible says that Satan fell from heaven.

So you are not looking for Lucifer.........Satan, you are looking for day star or morning star who is a man. You also need to know when this man is laid down why THE FIR TREES REJOICE.

And this same man is a King of Babylon and an Assyrian.

brasyliam · Dec 16, 2018

Choose Wisely said:
I got the gist of your answer but think that you are missing the most important verses with regards to who this person is.
Isaiah 14
7 The whole earth is at rest, and is quiet: they break forth into singing.

8 Yea, the fir trees rejoice at thee, and the cedars of Lebanon, saying, Since thou art laid down, no feller is come up against us.

Can you elaborate a little more CW?

Choose Wisely · Dec 16, 2018

brasyliam said:
I'm sorry, I don't know. But my thesis rejects that we are dealing with kingdoms. I believe the 7 kings are kings... men.

Ok, they are 7 kings. So who is both a King of Babylon and an Assyrian....a man that when laid down will cause the fir trees to rejoice?

Choose Wisely · Dec 16, 2018

brasyliam said:
Can you elaborate a little more CW?

Sure.

The man you are looking for is either Nimrod the day star or Tammuz the morning star.

Choose Wisely · Dec 16, 2018

Here is the fir tree being cut and decorated. Where did this custom come from and what does it represent?

Jer 10
3 For the customs of the people are vain: for one cutteth a tree out of the forest, the work of the hands of the workman, with the axe.
4 They deck it with silver and with gold; they fasten it with nails and with hammers, that it move not.
5 They are upright as the palm tree, but speak not: they must needs be borne, because they cannot go. Be not afraid of them; for they cannot do evil, neither also is it in them to do good.

Where did this custom originate?

brasyliam · Dec 16, 2018

Choose Wisely said:
Secondly..........there is a confusion in the translation. The translation should say DAY STAR or MORNING STAR, not Lucifer. From what I can gather it is translated as lucifer in the Latin Vulgate. Apparently the translators of the KJV were not sure what to make of it and used lucifer.......day star or morning star as a proper name Lucifer. Then there is a confusion when the Bible says that Satan fell from heaven.

So you are not looking for Lucifer.........Satan, you are looking for day star or morning star who is a man. You also need to know when this man is laid down why THE FIR TREES REJOICE.

And this same man is a King of Babylon and an Assyrian.

Oh lol.. I see that you have..
Yes, I am aware of the talk that is circulating around Venus/Lucifer. I need a bit more than I have heard to be convinced of these things. Also, I did a study on the fir trees and the no feller that has come up against us not so long back, and it is indeed a deep study... but without my notes here, it is somewhat dim in my memory. If you would like to fill me in on these things I will be happy to look at it.

shilohsfoal · Dec 16, 2018

Choose Wisely said:
Here is the fir tree being cut and decorated. Where did this custom come from and what does it represent?

Jer 10
3 For the customs of the people are vain: for one cutteth a tree out of the forest, the work of the hands of the workman, with the axe.
4 They deck it with silver and with gold; they fasten it with nails and with hammers, that it move not.
5 They are upright as the palm tree, but speak not: they must needs be borne, because they cannot go. Be not afraid of them; for they cannot do evil, neither also is it in them to do good.

Where did this custom originate?

The art of makig idols has been around a long long time.

Isaiah 44:9-20 - GNTA - All those who make idols are worthless, and the...

brasyliam · Dec 16, 2018

Choose Wisely said:
Sure.

The man you are looking for is either Nimrod the day star or Tammuz the morning star.

I'm sorry, when you say the man I am looking for... I'm not sure which man you mean? that man of sin, the 7th king? the beast? Can you clarify?

Revealing Times · Dec 16, 2018

DOUBLE POST....

Revealing Times · Dec 16, 2018

brasyliam said:
I'm sorry, I don't know. But my thesis rejects that we are dealing with kingdoms. I believe the 7 kings are kings... men.

Is both....God wants us to know the Last Beast is a MAN, this is why he basically says, the 7 Kingdoms (Beast Heads) are 7 Kings and 5 have fallen....one is and one is yet to come. The Last Bast will BOTH arise and fall unlike any of the other Beasts. God thus reduces the Kingdoms to Kings on purpose so we will look for a MAN not a Kingdom per se. Your instincts are right, it's not about Mountains or Kingdoms per se, it's about reducing the Kingdoms to Kings.

brasyliam said:
Thank you RT for watching and for your thoughts.

YW

brasyliam said:
I tend to think Apollyon is the beast and Satan combined but I am not dogmatic on that part. That's why I mentioned Apollyon but left it open for more study. But it does say in Rev. 9 that Apollyon is a king... as well as a military leader. Is he the seventh king? Or is he the seventh and eighth king merged? Is he neither? On this point I am still studying. The fact that the name Apollyon is a derivative of the word perdition is with no doubt significant and quite compelling.

The 7th is THE MAN..........The Anti-Christ/Little Horn/Beast. Apollyon is the 8th and is of the 7, in other words he was a Demonic being Satan placed over the whole Mediterranean Sea Region. He's not a man, but a Demonic entity. See Ephesians 6:12.

brasyliam said:
As to your interpretation of the beasts... it is because the math did not add up that I began the research I did. To make the math work, 2 more empires had to be added to Nebuchadnezzar's image. I never was comfortable with that view, which is the most accepted scholarly view. I never felt God would expect us to presume. If Egypt and Assyria were meant to be in the timeline of the empires, God would have added them above Babylon in the image. To me, they were added by scholars as an assumption. The math then is contrived in that way. If I were to choose which 2 empires in the world to add, I suppose it would be those 2 as they had much dealings with Israel. But it never felt right to me. God doesn't expect us to presume. He backs His encryptions up with other verses to decipher.

The logic behind this is really simple. God didn't want to confuse Daniel or anyone going forward, so He revealed who the Beasts were looking forward from Daniel's life on, there was no reason to mention the other two Beasts of the Region at that time, it added nothing to the Prophetic utterings of God nor His Prophets, it might even have made Daniel look like one of the soothsayers of the Kings Court. Thus we get the 4 Beasts and the Little Horn which = 5 Beasts in total from Daniel until the end of time as we know it.

In Revelation, Jesus is revealing everything to John looking back through time, the visions are future tense, he took John into the future, showed him the Seven Headed Beast and thus we now know all the players by looking back in time once we add in the two Beasts before Daniel's time. There was really no need of telling Daniel about those two Beasts, but when revealing the History of Israel and all the Beasts over her in ONE FIGURATIVE Beast out of the Sea both had to be added.

We don't have to presume anything, we can google each of those Kingdoms Maps and see they all ruled over Israel and all ruled over the Mediterranean Sea Region also, thus they arose from the Sea. God wanted Nebuchadnezzar to favor Daniel, thus he needed to think he was the TOP DOG (I thought about that a long time ago) thus he was the Greatest King of all time, the most pure, why tell this King he was 3rd ? Another thought, as each metal is shown, the metal gets harder and harder, so each Beast is more violent in nature.

brasyliam said:
Another aspect that does not pan out when viewing the 7 kings in Rev. 17:10-11 as 7 empires.. is that as you move into verse 11, you are picking up notes from other verses that deal with the beast as a personal being, not an empire.

Of course it's about Kings because the last Beast is a MAN, not a Kingdom per se, God wants us to know that. The Seven Headed Beast is about Seven Kingdoms and EACH had a Beast that FELL or lost Dominion, the last being the Anti-Christ who is cast straight into hell.

brasyliam said:
For instance... the fatal head wound being healed in Rev. 13, if it is not speaking of a man, but of Rome rising again, then how does it make sense of an image being formed that is made to speak? It's rather silly in a way, will the world build an image of Rome, Italy, the EU, a globe... and then give it a spirit to speak. It says the false prophet compels the world to build an image of the beast that had the fatal head wound and was healed. It is an image of a man. Not an empire.

Both are spoken of. A figurative 7 Headed Beast which was Egypt, Assyria, Babylon, Persia, Greece and Rome, but then the Beast from the Sea suffered a Mortal Wound that made the Beast goes away for nigh 2000 years. For starters the Church can not be overcome by the gates of hell, we turned Rome from a BEAST to a Conveyor Belt of the Gospel of Jesus Christ !! Also, Israel was dispersed the world over and became as Dead Men's Bones !! Israel can't be Beasted over for nigh 2000 years because God sees her as Dead. This is why the Ottoman Empire is not a Beast nor was the British Empire. Israel had to be reborn just as Ezekiel prophesied, else there could have been no End Time Beast over them. When the Man of Sin/Anti-Christ Conquers Jerusalem/Israel/Mediterranean Sea Region the 7 Headed Figurative Beast will be REBORN, he will be BEASTING over Israel and the Mediterranean Sea Region again.

The Image is of the MAN..................There are THREE BEASTS..........Rev. 12 is Satan, Rev. 13 is the Anti-Christ and Rev. 17 is Apollyon. All wield power over Israel and the region thus the are BEASTS of prey so to speak in God's eyes. There is only one Man of Sin however. One FLESH BEAST, he is the one an Image is made unto

brasyliam said:
Kings have empires. But in these verses, when God says "and" there are 7 kings... I believe He is speaking of men because He is working His way towards information that deals with that man of sin who will be revealed as the son of perdition. (II Thess:2)

He is the Man of Sin, but as per the video, it has nothing to do with Apostasy, it means the Departure of the Church, the KJV changed the meaning into a FALLING AWAY after 1500 years of it meaning the Departure of the Church to go be gathered unto the Lord.

brasyliam said:
As to the beast's lineage... though the account I give of Alexander was lengthy... it all but barely scratched the surface of what is behind the Greek origins. Fascinating stuff that would take a series of documentaries just to cover that aspect. Since the lineage bleeds down into the royal houses of Europe, both east and west... I would not speculate at this point... whether he is a Turk, a Stewart or a Merovingian makes little difference to me for now.

Choose Wisely · Dec 16, 2018

brasyliam said:
I'm sorry, when you say the man I am looking for... I'm not sure which man you mean? that man of sin, the 7th king? the beast? Can you clarify?

Isa 14
16 They that see thee shall narrowly look upon thee, and consider thee, saying, Is this the man that made the earth to tremble, that did shake kingdoms;

The King of Babylon, the Assyrian, the morning star. This is the beast.

Look on the back of a dollar bill and you will see a pyramid with the Eye of Horus. Egyptian Horus is the Babylonian Tammuz. Tammuz is said to be the reincarnated Nimrod.

Tammuz is the false savior. He is also the Egyptian Horus, the Norse or Scandinavian Thor, the Greek Apollo etc. etc. etc. etc.

Choose Wisely · Dec 16, 2018

Revealing Times said:
The 7th is THE MAN..........The Anti-Christ/Little Horn/Beast. Apollyon is the 8th and is of the 7, in other words he was a Demonic being Satan placed over the whole Mediterranean Sea Region. He's not a man, but a Demonic entity. See Ephesians 6:12.

.

Was Jesus a man? And yet his Father was God. Even so Apollyon is a man whose father is Satan.

the beast that was, and is not, and yet is...

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