A question of ERVs

46AND2

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I have dealt with it and there isn't anything there but a criteria that is hopelessly biased. I've seen the evidence and it's anecdotal at best. You take a handful of mutations and make them into a homology argument which abandons all real evidence for or against.

Once again, a phylogeny argument, not a homology argument. There is a significant difference.
 
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mark kennedy

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Once again, a phylogeny argument, not a homology argument. There is a significant difference.
It's the same thing, a mutation in the same point in a comparison of two species couldn't have happened independently. That's a homology argument.
 
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46AND2

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I'm talking about germline invasions.

ERVs were originally horizonally transferred to the germline. Not sure what you are talking about. How does a germline invasion occur if not horizonally, and then subsequently inherited?
 
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tas8831

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pshun2404

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WOW~!!!! 50???? You must be like the total expert! I do wonder - how many such studies you had read prior to erroneously claiming that cladograms show a hierarchical series of ancestor descendant relationships....

Misrepresentation, insult, diversion (typical)??? The reliable predictable TAS mo...be ready folks for when he starts quoting himself, or selects one or two instances out of 100s he can use to continue to misrepresent, insult, and divert...watch an see...
 
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tas8831

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Madalina Barbulescu in, “A HERV-K Provirus in Chimpanzees, Bonobos, and Gorillas, but Not Humans,” Current Biology 11 (May 2001): 779–83, doi:10.1016/S0960-9822(01)00227-5, tells us that SOME of the ERVs found in chimps, bonobos, and gorillas, are not present in humans and many in humans are not found in any of the others (also see Chris T. Yohn et al., “Lineage-Specific Expansions of Retroviral Insertions within the Genomes of African Great Apes but Not Humans and Orangutans,” PLoS Biology 3, April 2005: e110, 10.1371/journal.pbio).

Wow...

All those decades of study (to include a whopping 5 years studying the art of brainwashing) and you still are lost in the woods...

OK....
So none of these can be used in an argument for common descent and may indicate the exact opposite.

Ummm....

OK - let's see.

From the abstract of the Yohn paper:

"We unambiguously map 287 retroviral integration sites and determine that approximately 95.8% of the insertions occur at non-orthologous regions between closely related species. Phylogenetic analysis of the endogenous retrovirus reveals that the gorilla and chimpanzee elements share a monophyletic origin with a subset of the Old World monkey retroviral elements, but that the average sequence divergence exceeds neutral expectation for a strictly nuclear inherited DNA molecule. Within the chimpanzee, there is a significant integration bias against genes, with only 14 of these insertions mapping within intronic regions. Six out of ten of these genes, for which there are expression data, show significant differences in transcript expression between human and chimpanzee. Our data are consistent with a retroviral infection that bombarded the genomes of chimpanzees and gorillas independently and concurrently, 3–4 million years ago. We speculate on the potential impact of such recent events on the evolution of humans and great apes."

And the Barbulescu paper:

"They also show that HERV-K replicated as a virus and reinfected the germline of the common ancestor of the four modern species during the period of time when the lineages were separating and demonstrate the utility of using HERV-K to trace human evolution."



Will you never learn that 1. getting ideas for forum posts from YEC websites is a bad idea and 2. argument via Googling key words and looking for quotes while ignoring context makes you look silly?

Walls of text cannot hide your errors.
 
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tas8831

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LOL!
Misrepresentation, insult, diversion (typical)???
Speaking of M.O.s...
The reliable predictable TAS mo...be ready folks for when he starts quoting himself, or selects one or two instances out of 100s he can use to continue to misrepresent, insult, and divert...watch an see...

LOL!

Show the misrepresentation. Show the insults (pointing out your errors and antics are not insults - or they should not be). Diversion? Nope - just reminiscing about the fun times I've had exposing you - like when I exposed your nonsense on the coccyx...

ONE or TWO out of hundreds????? HA!


I have caught you plagiarizing how many times on here? Caught you doctoring quotes how many times? Caught you paraphrasing creationists how many times?

Give it a rest.

If you hadn't been so pompous and condescending the first time I encountered you on here - and also been caught plagiarizing by me - I might not be so nitpicky with your self-aggrandizing nonsense.

But if your ego-puffing claims had merit, if you really had 30 years of biology research experience (setting up psych experiments? ha!) you should not be making so many stupid mistakes when you start these threads.

And here you are making the same basic 'arguments' you always do - 'oh my gosh, such tentative language - it HASTA be wrong!'

And like I said - argument via google is not helping your integrity much...

But proceed. I am enjoying watching several other people expose your arguments as plagiarized and/or ignorant nonsense.
 
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tas8831

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Not sure where your underlined quote comes from, because it isn't in the paper you cited. Further, that paper does not seem to imply anything like the "re-thinking" you say it does. In the conclusion, it even says the results were "not unexpected."

Whats this? The great thinker and 30-years of research dude got caught biffing yet again?
Dr. Roberts is a creationist. In the article from which your quote comes, she also says, " Some elements are found in chimps, bonobos, and gorillas, but are absent in humans."

1. The ERV you mentioned in the first paper you cited is the ONLY KNOWN EXAMPLE OF THIS. So her statement is misleading.

2. The source she cites for this statement has nothing to do with ERVs.

She goes on to say: "Others are present in chimps and great apes but not in humans and orangutans."

1. She gives no source for this claim.

2. The footnote for this claim talks about something OTHER than ERVs.

Notice the wording she uses in a paragraph that is purportedly about ERVs. She says "ELEMENTS are found in chimps...." not "ERVs are found in chimps..." This leaves her free to be technically correct when she supports her statements in her footnotes, despite the fact that, you know, it's a bait and switch, cause the footnotes have nothing to do with ERVs.

Thats our creationist!

Nice catches 46 - if you take the time to really drill down in pshun's claims, experience shows that you will find all kinds of such antics. Followed by feigned indignation at having been caught, of course...
 
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tas8831

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tas8831

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See I warned everyone and there it is...yeah I will put him on my ignore list as well.
Thats OK - other people catch you plagiarizing and bluffing, too. I will keep exposing you, and you ignoring it will be just fine, for everyone else will see it.
 
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pshun2404

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It's very dishonest not only to plagiarize several paragraphs from a webpage and not cite it, but to do so apparently to hide the fact that the person making the assertion is an Old Earth Creationist.
A Common Design View of ERVs Encourages Scientific Investigation

I never read this article and did not even know it existed. Are you claiming I plagiarized two or three paragraphs from here and did not cite this site? I read the article you linked and could not find the alleged example...and why would I have to hide that I am an OWC? I've never denied that!

Can you cut and paste the several paragraphs you cite from your article and post them here? Thanks...I will wait.
 
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