Do you have a Bible proof text that there is even a thing like tongues as a prayer language?
It is other texts that are not gnostic but from those who knew Jesus first hand, and obeyed him. The 66 books are described as God breathed and what we need, but not all own a Bible or can read, and even if they have both, the Bible is not self described as a perfect work.
It is for us, or those believing right up until Christ returns. Until the demons issue is over, we have to cast them out. Young's literal translation has the word, "believing".
There is the verse about not believing strange new doctrines. The old is continuist. Later came the use of 1 Corinthians 13 and "cease" which is as in the OP "word striving". That is changing the plain and contextual meaning by striving over the meaning of one word. Here is it "perfect", or "teleios". First thoughts were and are it refers to Jesus, but the word refers to a thing not a person, so they guess it means the whole Bible. But it can refer to a thing, non personal, that comes with Jesus second coming, or "revelation"...
Those of us who have received the prayer tongues of our spirits would say YES! Those who believe but haven't received are still hoping so. Those who are "ungifted/unlearned" would say No! Then they even go on to say we speak gibberish or babble, but in the bible Paul said the 'naysayers’ of his day also said we're all "mad" or as NIV says 'out of our minds', which is actually kind of correct.
No, the world has always needed and needs the gifts and powers of the Spirit. To overcome sin, and to testify, to be healed to live on and preach. As Jesus said, will your father give you a stone if you ask for bread? Ask and you shall receive. If we do not have it is because we did not long for and ask. And there is the old Isaiah 11:2.
Jesus died for the Jews first and also for the gentiles, for God has no favourites.
While we are in agreement concerning much, I have to question the need for the Holy Spirit to overcome sin. He does convict the world to bring them 'to Christ' for sure. But I think that the holy spirit of Christ in us, is then is capable of doing what it did in Jesus. Jesus did a pretty good job of overcoming sin for 30 years with the spirit of Christ in Him, before receiving the baptism of the Holy Spirit. And I see many fundamentalists who walk very sanctified and holy lives by the same power. All the while living as blazing theological cessasionists.
Here I think that there was simply an 'ignorant' spiritual understanding by 'those' Pentecostals lacking the true knowledge of spiritual things, even though their supernatural prayer tongue was bonafide. Scripture can be read 'literally, symbolically and/or spiritually. Not "rightly dividing" those applications can be seen in the verses Jesus was referring to in Mark....as well as Luke. And according to another "ungifted/unlearned" poster, that 'ignorance' of early Pentecostals and even present day charismatics is obviously 'their' opinion too. The "serpents" we are supposed to be dealing with are spiritual and not physical snakes. When Jesus was talking about us having "AUTHORITY" over the "POWER" of "serpents and scorpions" he wasn't talking about snakes and desert arachnids, he was talking about the supernatural dunnamis/power of the enemy. And that was the contextual setting for when Jesus spoke. It was right after the 70 disciples had victoriously cast out demons and Jesus saw their 'heavenly authority' usurping the 'authority' of Satan in the heavenly realms where we too are supposed to be waging spiritual warfare. Their names had spiritual 'heavenly authority' over Satan and that is what Jesus saw in the Spirit. Satan is still in the invisible heavenly realm.
Cessationists can receive Christ, the Holy Spirit and bear the fruit of the Spirit. But breaking bondages of demonic nature, overcoming sin, and being gracious to those bound and they may fall short.While we are in agreement concerning much, I have to question the need for the Holy Spirit to overcome sin. He does convict the world to bring them 'to Christ' for sure. But I think that the holy spirit of Christ in us, is then is capable of doing what it did in Jesus. Jesus did a pretty good job of overcoming sin for 30 years with the spirit of Christ in Him, before receiving the baptism of the Holy Spirit. And I see many fundamentalists who walk very sanctified and holy lives by the same power. All the while living as blazing theological cessasionists.
Here I think that there was simply an 'ignorant' spiritual understanding by 'those' Pentecostals lacking the true knowledge of spiritual things, even though their supernatural prayer tongue was bonafide. Scripture can be read 'literally, symbolically and/or spiritually. Not "rightly dividing" those applications can be seen in the verses Jesus was referring to in Mark....as well as Luke. And according to another "ungifted/unlearned" poster, that 'ignorance' of early Pentecostals and even present day charismatics is obviously 'their' opinion too. The "serpents" we are supposed to be dealing with are spiritual and not physical snakes. When Jesus was talking about us having "AUTHORITY" over the "POWER" of "serpents and scorpions" he wasn't talking about snakes and desert arachnids, he was talking about the supernatural dunnamis/power of the enemy. And that was the contextual setting for when Jesus spoke. It was right after the 70 disciples had victoriously cast out demons and Jesus saw their 'heavenly authority' usurping the 'authority' of Satan in the heavenly realms where we too are supposed to be waging spiritual warfare. Their names had spiritual 'heavenly authority' over Satan and that is what Jesus saw in the Spirit. Satan is still in the invisible heavenly realm.
LUK 10:19 Behold, I have given you authority to tread upon serpents and scorpions, and over all the power/dunnamis of the enemy; and nothing shall hurt you. 20 Nevertheless do not rejoice in this, that the spirits are subject to you;
Snakes aren't subject to anyone, unless you think Jesus was talking 'snake charmers'.
People are hungry for spiritual manifestations from God, just as we see the spiritual manifestations of demons to this day also.....in unbelievers and believers IMO and experience. When you know the devil has supernatural powers to manifest it's good to know God has even more authority in those realms.
You have just caused me to rethink my opinion. If Cessationists can indeed walk in the fruit of the Holy Spirit, then are we to assume that they can also walk in the gifts of the Holy Spirit? If such an assumption is true than what reason is there to receive the baptism of the Holy Spirit, in your opinion?
I have walked into a place where three of us praying in tongues and naming the name of Jesus, might just as well have been playing bag pipes, as you said. But, as it turns out, the demon we couldn't deal with was a 'spirit of python'. And during the 45 minute ordeal, two of us later testified that we both felt the Spirit said you haven't prayed or fasted enough. That was my first ever demonic manifestation experience. Several weeks later, the gal we failed with, asked to speak with me after home group one night. She told me she went through another deliverance session with two women in the deliverance ministry. She said they discerned the python spirit and didn't have enough authority either....not until they got a third person involved were they able to cast it out. It was several years later, while dealing with a young Mexican man I was disciplining that I learned a python spirit has the power to "kill" and that's the most authoritative demon. It's power trumps the power to "steal and destroy". This young man had an uncle he grew up with in Mexico who was a Brujo in the Santeria (black witch in Mexican Catholic voo doo). He was the one who told me the truth of the Luke 10:19 verse. He said that "(spiritual) serpents " have the power to kill and the "(spiritual) scorpions" only have the power to torture. When he told me that, Revelation also came to a new 'enlightened truth' for me.
