Who are the 144,000?

JohnB445 said:

the 144,000 were ?

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Where do you find 144,000?
What does the passage say?

What about the grat multitude that noone could count?

or do you mean the 144k who had not defiled themselves with women?

As revelation is a series of word pictures is there an actual 144k or does it stand for a complete number of the saved?

12,000 from each of the 12 tribes of Israel... that's who it is.

JohnB445 said:

Didn't claim that. Talking about the 12 tribes, not the complete number

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Isnt that pic of the sphere in Vatican museum grounds?

JohnB445 said:

Yea, quite an interesting sculpture.

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Yea, thought so as i have been there.

Revelation is very complex. People very often mis interpret it.

The 144,000 are selected out of the vast multitude of faithful Christians, seen by John in Jerusalem, Revelation 7:9-14, soon after the Sixth Seal disaster has cleared all of the holy Land for them to emigrate there. Isaiah 66:15-21
Jesus is revealed to His people, 2 Thessalonians 1:10, standing on Mt Zion, Revelation 14:1-7, as He divides the people into twelve divisions, named after the original 12 sons of Jacob. He selects 12,000 young undefiled Christians out of each group and they go out in pairs to proclaim the coming Kingdom; as they did in Luke 10-1-10, that will be established after the Gospel is proclaimed and all the prophesied things for the last days have taken place.

JohnB445 said:

From the context of the passages, it seems reasonable to conclude the 144,000 are Jews from the 12 tribes of Isreal....

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The Jews can't be all twelve tribes. The term, Jew, refers to citizens of Judea, which was named after the tribe of Judah, because it consisted almost entirely of that tribe. A few Levites lived there, and a scarce smattering of Benjamites were there, also. The other tribes were not represented as citizens. The modern Jew is presumed to be a descendant, at least spiritually, of the ancient Judean, although their European appearance makes them look rather unlike a descendant of Shem.

Tolworth John said:

Where do you find 144,000?
What does the passage say?

What about the grat multitude that noone could count?

or do you mean the 144k who had not defiled themselves with women?

As revelation is a series of word pictures is there an actual 144k or does it stand for a complete number of the saved?

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The Great Multitude is the Raptured Church IN HEAVEN as the Bride. The 144,000 is a Metaphor for the 1/3 Jews who repent or turn to Christ (See Zechariah 13:8-9).

JohnB445 said:

It sounds a bit bizarre some claim that the 144,000 were the Isreali Disciples converted in the 1st century to Christianity. the 144,000 sounds like a future number of people redeemed in the end times.

From the context of the passages, it seems reasonable to conclude the 144,000 are Jews from the 12 tribes of Isreal after Jesus defeats the Anti-Christ and reveals himself to be the true Messiah of the Elect.

Other peoples interpretations of the 144,000 are the elect of random people of the Gentile Church that no one knows.

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The 144,000 is a Metaphor....................We know that 12 is the number that stands for Fullness, thus 12 X 12 X 12 = All Israel being saved, not every Jew, but Israel as a Nation is saved.

The 144,000 are the 1/3 of Zechariah 13:8-9, they rhus Flee Judea and God SEALS THEM or Protects them in Petra before the Trumpet Judgments are released, we know this because God says HURT NOT the seas, earth or the trees until the 144,000 are sealed/protected. And the first few Trumpets burn all the trees, turn the sea to blood and kills the sea creatures and hurts the earth of course.

It will be 1/3 of all the Jews, and there are 6 Million living there now. So it's at least 2 Million Jews.

Revealing Times said:

The Great Multitude is the Raptured Church IN HEAVEN as the Bride. The 144,000 is a Metaphor for the 1/3 Jews who repent or turn to Christ (See Zechariah 13:8-9).

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The "repentance" occurs in Zechariah 12:10, prior to the 2/3 purge in Zechariah 13:8-9. Zechariah 12:10 refers to those who pierced Christ, which includes Judas, Caiaphas, and all of the other Jews responsible for His death. We'll thus be seeing, meeting, and greeting Judas et al in heaven.

JohnB445 said:

Who are the 144,000?

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I personally do not know but I believe it is very symbolic and refers to the Christians in the first century, of course I do not take it literally.

jgr said:

The "repentance" occurs in Zechariah 12:10, prior to the 2/3 purge in Zechariah 13:8-9. Zechariah 12:10 refers to those who pierced Christ, which includes Judas, Caiaphas, and all of the other Jews responsible for His death. We'll thus be seeing, meeting, and greeting Judas et al in heaven.

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I know that..........but the point is who are the 144,000..........The Jews who Flee Judea are the ones who accept Christ, they thus flee after they Repent, of course, that goes without saying. And the 2/3 who do not repent will perish.

So I was just pointing out who they are, they are the 1/3 who Flee Judea as Jesus warned them to do.

Revealing Times said:

I know that..........but the point is who are the 144,000..........The Jews who Flee Judea are the ones who accept Christ, they thus flee after they Repent, of course, that goes without saying. And the 2/3 who do not repent will perish.

So I was just pointing out who they are, they are the 1/3 who Flee Judea as Jesus warned them to do.

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Dispensationally, the 2/3 will perish, but they have already repented previously in Zechariah 12:10, and secured their salvation. Even if Judas et al are among them, they are still saved. Thus we will one day be fellowshipping with him and them in heaven.

John 17:12 notwithstanding.

jgr said:

Dispensationally, the 2/3 will perish, but they have already repented previously in Zechariah 12:10, and secured their salvation. Even if Judas et al are among them, they are still saved. Thus we will one day be fellowshipping with him and them in heaven.

John 17:12 notwithstanding.

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Zechariah 12:10 happens during the 70th wee, so its a future event. And all Jews are not saved, that's not scriptural, only the nes who repent and come to Christ are saved. All Jews since Christ had a chance to be saved as individuals, like us, God blinded the Nation as a whole, but not every Jew was blind. That basically means that because of their zeal for their religion, they had forgotten what made the Righteous, Faith in God like faithful Abraham, they built Judaism on WORKS !! Like may Christian do today with Sabbath observance etc. etc.

Revealing Times said:

Zechariah 12:10 happens during the 70th wee, so its a future event. And all Jews are not saved, that's not scriptural, only the nes who repent and come to Christ are saved. All Jews since Christ had a chance to be saved as individuals, like us, God blinded the Nation as a whole, but not every Jew was blind. That basically means that because of their zeal for their religion, they had forgotten what made the Righteous, Faith in God like faithful Abraham, they built Judaism on WORKS !! Like may Christian do today with Sabbath observance etc. etc.

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According to Zechariah 12:10, every one who pierced Him will be saved. That includes Judas et al.

JohnB445 said:

It sounds a bit bizarre some claim that the 144,000 were the Isreali Disciples converted in the 1st century to Christianity. the 144,000 sounds like a future number of people redeemed in the end times.

From the context of the passages, it seems reasonable to conclude the 144,000 are Jews from the 12 tribes of Isreal after Jesus defeats the Anti-Christ and reveals himself to be the true Messiah of the Elect.

Other peoples interpretations of the 144,000 are the elect of random people of the Gentile Church that no one knows.

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They are LLLLLLLIIIIIIIIOOOOOONNNNNNNNSSSSSSS!!!!!!


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Kinda like that, but waaaaaaay more ominous...