Illegal immigration cost US taxpayers 116 billion

SkyWriting

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Aaah, ok... so the situation is quite different from what we have here. Everybody here has to have a birth number (social number) and who is illegal, is deported or waiting for deportation.

If your illegals are "illegally legal" and can work etc., then I understand the tension in the USA more...

There have been occasions that we "Rounded up" the illegals, but being that most all Americans immigrated here somewhat recently, there is not the will-power to deport them. So illegals live with us side by side.
 
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SkyWriting

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If your illegals are "illegally legal" and can somehow work, if practically anonymous children can get education etc., then I uderstand the tension in the USA more...

No. All children are required by law to attend school, including the undocumented.
 
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trophy33

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No. All children are required by law, to attend school including the undocumented.
I see. Here, its also required, but everybody must be in "the system", registred, with a history, identified.

American freedom has its costs...
 
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SkyWriting

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You argument is hallow if you read the statistics.

M-Bob
If you don't have illegals in your family, then your statistics don't fit reality.
You can't complain about the cost of education
and
require illegal kids to attend school. Drop the school requirement, then complain.

Dad is illegal, my daughter is not. Dad works 3 jobs. How many jobs do you work? Dad should be deported and leave the wife and two kids? Smart thinkin? Should I apply those stats in my decision to deport my son-in-law? My argument is valid.
 
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wing2000

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They are not hiding. They work were you work in many cases.

...and I would add, generations of illegal immigrants have filled the demand for US labor. US companies of all sizes have employed and profited from their low cost and hard work ethic.
The only illegals deported are criminals anymore. For the most part.
They can still get driving tickets and minor crimes and not be deported.

That is no longer the case under the Trump administration. Illegal immigrants who have been here for 20-30 years (with established families, etc) have been deported after minor infractions.
 
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Hank77

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I mentioned that regarding how americans don't want to work seasonal jobs or temp jobs that illegals flock to.
Good point and that's understandable both in the American worker and the migrate worker's view. Seasonal migrate workers often leave the states and go home in the off season and come back the following year, although I doubt that Russians are doing that. One can live comfortably in Mexico for very little US dollars. Americans can't live year around on the wages from seasonal farm work.
 
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Dave-W

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a) how can an illegal immigrant get a state education when he is in the state illegally?
many states REQUIRE them to be in public education.
b) why are their hospital bills so astronomical?
The cost of health care in the US is beyond astronomical. It is fueled by big insurance paying sums that make the military costs of the 1970s look positively bargain basement.
c) why are their law enforcement bills so high? Are prisons 5 stars hotels?
5 star hotels would be much cheaper.

And that is for ALL inmates, not just aliens.
 
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Dave-W

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I mentioned that regarding how americans don't want to work seasonal jobs or temp jobs that illegals flock to.
American citizens do not want to work off the books for a dollar an hour with no benefits either.

But that keeps the economy going.
 
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wing2000

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Aaah, ok... so the situation is quite different from what we have here. Everybody here has to have a birth number (social number) and who is illegal, is deported or wating for deportation.

If your illegals are "illegally legal" and can somehow work, if practically anonymous children can get education etc., then I uderstand the tension in the USA more...

The USA refuses to implement a national ID system. It would, IMO, solve a lot of issues....
 
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SkyWriting

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Good point and that's understandable both in the American worker and the migrate worker's view. Seasonal migrate workers often leave the states and go home in the off season and come back the following year, although I doubt that Russians are doing that. One can live comfortably in Mexico for very little US dollars. Americans can't live year around on the wages from seasonal farm work.

American citizens do not want to work off the books for a dollar an hour with no benefits either.
But that keeps the economy going.

About 2000 foreign workers, just for the summer in Wisconsin.
Its a Federal run program.
Cheap Labor as Cultural Exchange: $100 Million in Summer Work

The point being that the US needs the workers.
 
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expos4ever

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Oh my.

Bob, Rather than hand you your hat on the spot, I will suggest you do a little research about this report and the organization that wrote it.

If a retraction is not forthcoming, I shall spill the beans.

Ye have been warned.
 
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Hank77

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c) why are their law enforcement bills so high? Are prisons 5 stars hotels?
The taxpayer is paying over $36,000 a year for each inmate. The corp. private prison system has made inmates a means to profits in the billions by selling the products built by the inmates as well as collecting these taxpayer dollars. States have made contracts with these private institutions guaranteeing to keep so many beds filled each year. This system has lead to corruption within the justice system. More people incarcerated and longer sentences.
 
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wing2000

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Both ways have probably some advantages and some costs...

I suspect the cost of not having a national id number far exceeds the cost of implementing such a system. Take the case of "Secure ID" -- the program implemented after 9/11 wherein each state is required to upgrade drivers licenses to meet certain security standards. Instead of implementing one system, the Feds required 50 states to implement....and btw, Arizona is finally implementing in 2019 -- 18 years after 9/11.
 
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trophy33

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I suspect the cost of not having a national id number far exceeds the cost of implementing such a system.

But without such system you can live relatively "under the radar" of the gov, so dictature is not possible.
In my country, you can do nothing without your birth number and ID card - you cant go to a doctor, you cant get a package at the post, you cannot work, you cannot have a bank account etc....
 
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wing2000

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How would that be different than having social security numbers?

The Social Security number was never designed to be used as an ID number. And is very unsecure. A national ID system integrating biometric technology would be a much better solution.
 
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Yarddog

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Record $135 billion a year for illegal immigration, average $8,075 each, $25,000 in NY

And despite claims from pro-illegal immigration advocates that the aliens pay significant off-setting taxes back to federal, state and local treasuries, the Federation for American Immigration Reform report tallied just $19 billion, making the final hit to taxpayers about $116 billion.

M-Bob
I didn't see where any of their data was backed up with data from government sites. Conservative sites are no better than liberal sites when it comes to pencil whipping facts.
 
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miamited

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Record $135 billion a year for illegal immigration, average $8,075 each, $25,000 in NY

And despite claims from pro-illegal immigration advocates that the aliens pay significant off-setting taxes back to federal, state and local treasuries, the Federation for American Immigration Reform report tallied just $19 billion, making the final hit to taxpayers about $116 billion.

M-Bob

Hi MM,

Well, in reading over the article, I'd seriously question some of the 'facts' presented. Does anyone really believe that it costs $12,000/year to teach a non-english speaking child, just because they are non-english speaking? According to npr.org, it costs from $6,000 to $18,000 for the public school system to teach any student, depending on what state it is. Where does that money come from? Well, I can't speak for all states, but in SC where I now reside and Florida, where I lived for some 30 years, the revenue for schools comes primarily from property tax revenue. Where does property tax revenue come from? Well, as far as I know, every property parcel in the nation, except for some exemptions that can vary from state to state, pay annual property taxes. If, an illegal alien lives in a place where they are paying rent to a landlord or outright own a piece of property for their home, then they are paying for the teaching of their children.

About the only people for whom we would be giving their children a free education, would be some family living in a car or a tent. It is my understanding that most illegal aliens who have lived in the U.S. for more than 6 months, find a place to rent for their families or live with relatives who are paying property taxes towards the general school fund. As a landlord myself, I can attest that the amounts paid for property taxes on a rental property are actually paid by the tenant. It is figured in as a cost to the landlord of holding the property as a rental property.

Further, rental properties generally pay higher taxes than owner occupied homes and so there is a very, very good argument to be made that illegal aliens who are renting would actually be paying more in school education funds than someone who lives in a property that they own and is taxed as an owner occupant dwelling.

So, I'm certainly willing to consider that new immigrants, whether legal or illegal, may get off without paying their fair share of property taxes from which their local school is funded. However, once a family, and let's do remember that if we're talking about educating children then we're talking about a family coming across the border and not the thousands of individual men and women who cross the border looking for a better life or job for themselves, that family unit, as soon as they find a place to live, will be paying into the property tax pool from which education funds are derived.

I also would like to see how they arrived at the various totals. For example, are they saying that it costs $12,000 to educate a non-english speaking child and simply multiplying the total number of estimated illegal aliens by that $12,000 to arrive at some astronomical number? Or, are they actually making some attempt to determine how many illegal aliens have children that are enrolled in our school system once they cross the border and then multiplying that much lower number by $12,000. Finally, not all children who come across the border illegally are non-english speaking. Children often have an amazing ability to learn languages quickly, much faster than most adults. I would imagine that even most children who can't speak english when they cross the border will learn the language within their first year, or two at most, of being in an english speaking education system. After they learn english, then they wouldn't cost $12,000 to educate because of their lack of knowledge of the english language.

As is often the case in any attempt of an organization to present an argument for a certain position, an organization titled 'Federation for American Immigration Reform' is likely to only show the side of the argument that supports their position. Generally, the truth is found somewhere in the middle of such arguments. Wiki identifies the organization thusly: The Federation for American Immigration Reform is a non-profit tax exempt organization in the United States that self-identifies as an organization seeking to reduce both legal and illegal immigration.

Notice that it is their intent to reduce both legal and illegal immigration. For an organization with such a motive, using facts that don't support their position wouldn't be in their best interests.

God bless,
In Christ, ted
 
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miamited

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Hi again MM,

Now, I'm not making any claim of truth to anything that follows, but merely making others aware of possible controversy.

The Federation for American Immigration Reform has its detractors. The Southern Poverty Law Center claims that the organization, and specifically its founder, are fairly racist and a bit white supremacist in their efforts. Here's a statement attributed to Mr. Taunton (founder of FAIR): "As Whites see their power and control over their lives declining, will they simply go quietly into the night? Or will there be an explosion?"

This from FAIR president, Dan Stein: “I blame ninety-eight percent of responsibility for this country’s immigration crisis on Ted Kennedy and his political allies, who decided some time back in 1958, earlier perhaps, that immigration was a great way to retaliate against Anglo-Saxon dominance and hubris, and the immigration laws from the 1920s were just this symbol of that, and it’s a form of revengism, or revenge, that these forces continue to push the immigration policy that they know full well are [sic] creating chaos and will continue to create chaos down the line.”

So, speaking only for myself, I'd hold suspect a lot of their claims and 'facts' without further corroboration and investigation into their methods.

God bless,
In Christ, ted
 
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