Pro-Life Hypocrisy

Johnny4ChristJesus said:

I agree, so fix them both.

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Just sterilise everyone and have mankind die out in 100 years, I say.

Sarsath said:

If the ¨pro-life¨ movement really cared about life, it would have:

Ended the War on Drugs/Legalized marijuana.

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Why? Drugs kill people.

Sarsath said:

Passed a $15 minimum wage law.

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Why? Minimum wages are a good thing, but a $15 minimum wage is very high by world standards, and would certainly lead to job losses.

And, for all your other points, the same question applies: why?

You might also be interested in: Whataboutism - Wikipedia

Sarsath said:

The war on drugs is a massive failure.

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There is no war on drugs.

If there was a war on drugs, drug traffickers would get arrested and locked up for life. Do that enough, and there would be no drugs on the street. And that would stop at least 100,000 deaths per year.

Radagast said:

There is no war on drugs.

If there was a war on drugs, drug traffickers would get arrested and locked up for life. Do that enough, and there would be no drugs on the street. And that would stop at least 100,000 deaths per year.

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Who’s for universal incarceration? Not me, I don’t want to live in a state where everybody’s a slave, either actually locked up or having to pay incredibly high taxes to feed those that are.

Radagast said:

Why? Drugs kill people.



Why? Minimum wages are a good thing, but a $15 minimum wage is very high by world standards, and would certainly lead to job losses.

And, for all your other points, the same question applies: why?

You might also be interested in: Whataboutism - Wikipedia

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the war on drugs increased crime which obviously increases murder. making drugs illegal doesn't change the fact that people will want to buy it. it only helps violent organizations and gets poor people into jail.

Radagast said:

Why? Drugs kill people.

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So do guns.

Why? Minimum wages are a good thing, but a $15 minimum wage is very high by world standards, and would certainly lead to job losses.

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You might be interested in the > $18/hr minimum wage in our country.

Minimum wage earners to get an extra $24 a week

Sarsath said:

Note: I am not here to debate the morality of abortion, but rather, the legality of it and the hypocrisy of the ¨pro-life¨ movement.


I have noticed that the so-called pro-life movement is, for the most part, divorced from reality. It is devoid of critical thinking, empathy, and understanding why people get abortions and is instead full of insults and appeals to emotion. If the ¨pro-life¨ movement really cared about life, it would have:

• Ended the War on Drugs/Legalized marijuana.
• Passed a $15 minimum wage law.
• Got paid maternity leave laws passed.
• Expanded the welfare state.
• Strengthed unions.
• Increased taxes on the rich.
• Provided sex education that was not focused on abstinence.
• Made healthcare single-payer, free, and government funded.
• Opened up borders with Latin America and provided help to undocumented immigrants.

Instead, the ¨pro-life¨ movement did the exact opposite of what I listed. There is nothing Christian about forcing people to have babies and then ditching them. In addition, they lack empathy towards rape victims.
The Pro Life Campaign’s definition of love is cruel
Pro-life lawyers fight court's decision to allow 12-year-old rape victim to have an abortion - Independent.ie
How Rape and "Pro-Life" Politics Are Intimately Connected | HuffPost

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There is nothing hypocritical about saving a life. Even if there were it would not matter, the life comes first.

But your list of reasons for criticising prolifers also mainly does not apply in Europe or do not achieve the moral or lifeenhancing aims you associate with them.

Europes welfare state is perfectly reasonable, unions are redundant if you have proper legislation in place protecting workers and in some cases have been agents of instability and bankruptcy e.g. 1970s UK, increased taxes on the rich often decrease the total tax take and the amounts available for welfare.

Tanj said:

So do guns.



You might be interested in the > $18/hr minimum wage in our country.

Minimum wage earners to get an extra $24 a week

Click to expand...

Yes, But…

It is that funny worthless plastic Australian money and not real fine linen American Petro Dollars.

Sarsath said:

Note: I am not here to debate the morality of abortion, but rather, the legality of it and the hypocrisy of the ¨pro-life¨ movement.


I have noticed that the so-called pro-life movement is, for the most part, divorced from reality. It is devoid of critical thinking, empathy, and understanding why people get abortions and is instead full of insults and appeals to emotion. If the ¨pro-life¨ movement really cared about life, it would have:

• Ended the War on Drugs/Legalized marijuana.
• Passed a $15 minimum wage law.
• Got paid maternity leave laws passed.
• Expanded the welfare state.
• Strengthed unions.
• Increased taxes on the rich.
• Provided sex education that was not focused on abstinence.
• Made healthcare single-payer, free, and government funded.
• Opened up borders with Latin America and provided help to undocumented immigrants.

Instead, the ¨pro-life¨ movement did the exact opposite of what I listed. There is nothing Christian about forcing people to have babies and then ditching them. In addition, they lack empathy towards rape victims.
The Pro Life Campaign’s definition of love is cruel
Pro-life lawyers fight court's decision to allow 12-year-old rape victim to have an abortion - Independent.ie
How Rape and "Pro-Life" Politics Are Intimately Connected | HuffPost

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If the pro choice community actually cared about choice in the same way that the OP here wishes to insist prolifers must care about life then they would

Oppose mandated health insurance.
Oppose mandated health coverages for health insurance policies
Oppose forcing bakers to bake cakes they would prefer to choose not to bake
Oppose closed primaries
Oppose mandatory union membership for employment
Oppose party affiliation as a means to be included on election ballots
Oppose zoning ordinances
Oppose campaign finance laws

In short Oppose anything that limits choices in any way. And support anything that in any way allows more choice.

Support the outlawing of HOAs
Support distribution of anti abortion as well as pro abortion literature to pregnant women in order to make sure that the woman can take a well informed decision by being aware of all the choices available.


Of course one could be reasonable and allow that pro life means not purposely taking the life of the unborn and pro choice means giving the women the option and the final say on whether to have a child or not up to a certain point at which there is consensus about whether the potential child in question is a viable human baby. But it is always easier to demolish a strawman than it is to come up with arguments to counter an actual argument.

I think both sides should work harder at deliberately misrepresenting the points of their opposition. That is obviously the only way this complex issue will ever come to a satisfactory conclusion.

</sarcasm>

what is legal, is not what is moral.
since you dont want to discuss the morality of it, obviously shows your moral side of things.

"Pro-life" need not to be taken literally. Its just a title that refers to the anti-abortion position.

Rubiks said:

"Pro-life" need not to be taken literally. Its just a title that refers to the anti-abortion position.

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It is also a title that could be equally well applies to those who are pro choice. It is a dang shame that the "pro life" refuse to work with the "pro choice" to make abortion rare.

This subject has many facets.

Pro-life really means anti-abortion. It doesn't really mean pro LIFE.
It means exclusively pro baby human life. What is the definition of life: is it a baby human only? Why isn't a baby cow or chicken considered "alive"?
Is capital punishment pro-life? Is war pro-life?
Plants are alive but don't have a conscience, so is consciousness a prerequisite for being alive? If so, what parts are important? All creatures have varying levels of consciousness.
So I am not pushing vegan and execution agendas here, but the subjects overlap the pro-life topic.
But we really should not declare ourselves to be pro-life unless we respect ALL life.

The thing about so-called "pro-life" (and this has probably been pointed out already): it only applies while the baby is in the womb and does not include the mother. Once the baby is born, many "pro-life" people don't care anymore; the mother is a "welfare leech" who needs to "pull herself up by the bootstraps" and the baby is "just another mouth to feed".

If we want to truly be serious about being "pro-life", then we need better care for the mother, extended pregnancy leave, and help for the baby after it's born.
Ringo

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Shempster said:

This subject has many facets.

Pro-life really means anti-abortion. It doesn't really mean pro LIFE.
It means exclusively pro baby human life. What is the definition of life: is it a baby human only? Why isn't a baby cow or chicken considered "alive"?
Is capital punishment pro-life? Is war pro-life?
Plants are alive but don't have a conscience, so is consciousness a prerequisite for being alive? If so, what parts are important? All creatures have varying levels of consciousness.
So I am not pushing vegan and execution agendas here, but the subjects overlap the pro-life topic.
But we really should not declare ourselves to be pro-life unless we respect ALL life.

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Good points. Terminology is often used carelessly. The same applies to pro-choice. I can't speak for everyone, but pro-choice to me really means anti-criminalization. Not pro-abortion. Any elective abortion (one not done for medical reasons) is undesirable. And I understand how it can be seen as morally suspect. But using the police power of the state to criminalize elective abortion at all stages of pregnancy is simply a worse evil. It's far too authoritarian to declare that the fact of being pregnant completely nullifies a woman's autonomy over her uterus (along with her heart, lungs, kidneys, GI tract, and other organ systems that sustain said pregnancy) for a full 9 months. It gives way too much power to the government. There has to be a compromise. Up to certain point in pregnancy, abortion must be left as a private medical decision between doctor and patient (and any significant others she wishes to include.) After that point, the state can put reasonable restrictions on the procedure. I think most people will see this as fair and sensible.

Tanj said:

You might be interested in the > $18/hr minimum wage in our country.

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In Australian dollars. In US dollars, the Australian minimum wage is $13.

Plus our "minimum wage" actually comes with a big loophole: for those under 21 years old it's less, dropping to US $4.50 for the under-16s.