7 crowns versus 10 crowns

claninja

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Why does the dragon have 7 crowns, while the beast has 10 crowns?

Revelation 12:3 And another sign appeared in heaven: behold, a great red dragon, with seven heads and ten horns, and on his heads seven diadems

Revelation 13:1 And I saw a beast rising out of the sea, with ten horns and seven heads, with ten diadems on its horns and blasphemous names on its heads
 

eleos1954

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Why does the dragon have 7 crowns, while the beast has 10 crowns?

Revelation 12:3 And another sign appeared in heaven: behold, a great red dragon, with seven heads and ten horns, and on his heads seven diadems

Revelation 13:1 And I saw a beast rising out of the sea, with ten horns and seven heads, with ten diadems on its horns and blasphemous names on its heads

Chapter 12 of Revelation portrays the drama/scenes from its origin in heaven, to satan’s attack on Jesus, through the persecutions of the Dark Ages, until the final conflict at the time of the end.

12:3-6 The “great red dragon” is identified in verse 9 as satan. However, he/satan often uses others (agents) to persecute, deceive and destroy. Genesis 3:1-13. The “seven heads of ten horns and seven crowns” represents the nations or governments which satan has used to persecute God’s people (go read history about the dark ages). See also Daniel 7:7; Revelation 13:1-5; 17:3, 7-12. In verse 4 we see the attempt to destroy Jesus at His birth, and can identify Pagan Rome in the person of King Herod as the agency satan is working through. Matthew 2:13-18.

Revelation 13:1

Then I stood on the sand of the sea (John is standing on the shore looking out over the ocean, and a vision unfolds before him). And I saw a beast (the papal church-state) rising up out of the sea (coming to power among the populous nations of Europe), having seven heads and ten horns, and on his horns ten crowns (possessing political power through alliances with nations), and on his heads a blasphemous name (a God-defaming character).

So 12:3-6 is depicting satan working through/using (the agency of the beast) that is referenced in Revelation 13:1

The difference between 7 & 10 diadems is because of 3 that were "uprooted/plucked up by the roots" ... totally eliminated/destroyed, which were the Heruli, Vandals, and Ostrogoths were eliminated by the year 538 AD. (go look at history in wikipedia to verify this happened)

Daniel 7:8 I considered the horns, and, behold, there came up among them another little horn, before whom there were three of the first horns plucked up by the roots.

The three of the ten kingdoms were to be destroyed by the instigation of the little horn power. Three kingdoms that did not accept the papal mandates regarding Christ's divinity were literally uprooted destroyed. (again go read history on the dark ages)

Revelation is very difficult to discuss in a forum platform, because there is sooooo much to it ... but ... I encourage people to go and check out history ... it takes a lot of time ... but the history is there.

God Bless.
 
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claninja

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12:3-6 The “great red dragon” is identified in verse 9 as satan

I agree, as scripture interprets it for us:

Revelation 12:9 the great dragon was hurled down—the ancient serpent called the devil and Satan, the deceiver of the whole world.

“seven heads of ten horns and seven crowns” represents the nations or governments

Scripture does not say the 7 heads are nations or goverments. It states they are kings, of whom "one is" during the time John saw the vision.

Revelation 17:9-10 The seven heads are seven mountains on which the woman sits. There are also seven kings. Five have fallen, one is, and the other has not yet come; but when he does come, he must remain for only a little while.

The crowns are not interpreted for us.

In verse 4 we see the attempt to destroy Jesus at His birth, and can identify Pagan Rome in the person of King Herod as the agency satan is working through. Matthew 2:13-18.

I can partially agree with this, as scripture states Herod tried to kill Jesus when he was born, but also, the jews tried to kill Jesus multiple times prior to his being caught up to heaven.

John 7:1 He did not want to travel in Judea, because the Jews there were trying to kill Him.
Matthew 2:16 When Herod saw that he had been outwitted by the Magi, he was filled with rage. Sending orders, he put to death all the boys in Bethlehem and its vicinity who were two years old and under

And I saw a beast (the papal church-state) rising up out of the sea (coming to power among the populous nations of Europe),

1 Peter 1:20 Above all, you must understand that no prophecy of Scripture comes from the prophet’s own interpretation

No where does the angel explain that the beast is the papal church-state or that the sea is the populous nations of specifically "Europe". So this would just be a personal interpretation.

having seven heads and ten horns, and on his horns ten crowns (possessing political power through alliances with nations),

1 Peter 1:20 Above all, you must understand that no prophecy of Scripture comes from the prophet’s own interpretation

Again Revelation states no where anything about "alliances" so this would be a personal interpretation.

The difference between 7 & 10 diadems is because of 3 that were "uprooted/plucked up by the roots"

very interesting connection, but then shouldn't it be the other way around? The dragon starts with 10 diadems, then the beast has 7 because 3 were plucked up?

Instead the dragon starts with 7, then the beast has 10, which would be an "addition" of 3 more.

totally eliminated/destroyed, which were the Heruli, Vandals, and Ostrogoths were eliminated by the year 538 AD. (go look at history in wikipedia to verify this happened)

1 Peter 1:20 Above all, you must understand that no prophecy of Scripture comes from the prophet’s own interpretation

Again, another personal interpretation. Scripture does not define the identity of the horns or heads, only that they are simply representative of 7 hills and 7 kings.

Revelation is very difficult to discuss in a forum platform, because there is sooooo much to it ... but ... I encourage people to go and check out history ... it takes a lot of time ... but the history is there.

To me, revelation seems like such a difficult study, especially on these forums, because of the all the personal interpretation. I have seen dozens of different interpretations for the beast and 7 heads.

God Bless.

God bless you too, and thanks for your input.
 
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Douggg

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Why does the dragon have 7 crowns, while the beast has 10 crowns?

Revelation 12:3 And another sign appeared in heaven: behold, a great red dragon, with seven heads and ten horns, and on his heads seven diadems

Revelation 13:1 And I saw a beast rising out of the sea, with ten horns and seven heads, with ten diadems on its horns and blasphemous names on its heads
Because Revelation 12 has the entire 7 years in Revelation 12:6 + Revelation 12:14 before it. The heads have their crowns in Revelation 12 because the 7th king has come to power, right before those 7 years begin. Him coming to power as the 7th Julio Claudian king of the Roman Empire completes the prophecy of the 7 kings of Revelation 17:10.

The 7 years begin when the 7th king (of the Roman Empire) right after Gog/Magog, as the prince who shall come (into the middle east), is perceived by Israel as their messiah, and he confirms the Mt. Sinai covenant for 7 years as Moses required in Deuteronomy 31:9-13. That's when he becomes the Antichrist.


I show this in my chart below.

296145_35c687d6d098f7f74754a071430682a2.jpeg

________________________________________________________________

Regarding the ten horns and their crowns, follow the chart to when the person becomes the beast. When the person becomes the beast, to rule the world for the last 42 months of the 7 years, the ten kings receive power with him, after he has become the beast.

This is in Revelation 17:12:

12 And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast.

So in Revelation 13, the ten horns have their crowns to signify that they rule with the beast for the 42 months, as they give over their EU kingdom to him.
 
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claninja

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The heads have their crowns in Revelation 12 because the 7th king has come to power, right before those 7 years begin. Him coming to power as the 7th Julio Claudian king of the Roman Empire completes the prophecy of the 7 kings of Revelation 17:10.

The dragon, with its 7 heads, 10 horns, and 7 crowns, existed when Jesus was about to be born. Notice the vision states that dragon ready to devour the woman as soon as the son was born.
Revelation 12:4-5 And the dragon stood before the woman as she was about to give birth, ready to devour her child as soon as He was born. And she gave birth to a son, a male child, who will rule all the nations with an iron scepter;a and her child was caught up to God and to His throne

So what we see here, is that during the time of Christ's birth, the dragon had 7 crowns.
 
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Revealing Times

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Why does the dragon have 7 crowns, while the beast has 10 crowns?

Revelation 12:3 And another sign appeared in heaven: behold, a great red dragon, with seven heads and ten horns, and on his heads seven diadems

Revelation 13:1 And I saw a beast rising out of the sea, with ten horns and seven heads, with ten diadems on its horns and blasphemous names on its heads
The 7 Heads and 10 Kings are a COLLECTIVE BEAST over many years that rules over the Mediterranean Sea Region. Daniel told of only four Beasts (plus the Little Horn) from his time on, John/Jesus told of all 7 Kingdoms in the Region, Egypt, Assyria, Babylon, Persia, Greece, Rome and the coming Anti-Christ and his 10 Kings (Horns). The Last Head/Beast never passes his Kingdom on thus he is the final Beast all unto himself. That is the reason we get the whole, 7 Kingdoms are 7 Kings, 5 have fallen, ONE IS, and one is YET TO COME verses. So we will know the last Beast that arises only lasts for 42 months, thus he both ARISES and FALLS unlike any of the others.

So the 7 Headed (earthly Kingdoms) Beast which has 10 Horns (Kings from Europe) is set before us, but why the CROWNS ?

Satan is who is being spoken of in Rev. 12, thus the 7 CROWNS on the earthly Kingdoms designate he is over this whole world, just like he told Jesus in Luke 4. If you will bow down unto me all of these Kingdoms will I give you, for IT IS GIVEN ME, and do as I will with them !!

The Beast/Anri-Christ/Little Horn is being spoken of in Rev. 13, thus the 10 CROWNS on the 10 Horns who freely give their power unto the Beast.

BONUS: Why are NO CROWNS shown in Rev. 17 ? Because it's about Apollyon, the Scarlet Colored Beast that arises from the Bottomless Pit. Thus NO CROWNS, he is under Satan.
 
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Douggg

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The dragon, with its 7 heads, 10 horns, and 7 crowns, existed when Jesus was about to be born. Notice the vision states that dragon ready to devour the woman as soon as the son was born.
Revelation 12:4-5 And the dragon stood before the woman as she was about to give birth, ready to devour her child as soon as He was born. And she gave birth to a son, a male child, who will rule all the nations with an iron scepter;a and her child was caught up to God and to His throne

So what we see here, is that during the time of Christ's birth, the dragon had 7 crowns.
Yes, that is true regarding the first five verses as being historic. Those verses identify the woman as being Israel in the rest of the chapter.

If you notice in Revelation 17, the beast is scarlet colored. Also an indicator of Satan.

The reason Satan is seen in both Revelation 17 and Revelation 12 - is that the unclean spirit (called the beast) is in the bottomless pit -at the
time of John (Revelation 17) and at the beginning of the 7 years (Revelation 12).

That unclean spirit is not allowed to come out of the bottomless pit, until the end times person (also called the beast) is killed and comes back to life - which the unclean spirit will possess the person at that time. Which for that reason, Satan is not portrayed as the beast in Revelation 13.

If you look at my chart you will see the person becoming the beast after he reveals himself as the man of sin, and is killed for it. claninja, what I should probably do is improve my chart to show the crowns on heads and horns at their appropriate place. I think this would help.

296145_35c687d6d098f7f74754a071430682a2.jpeg
 
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claninja

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Daniel told of only four Beasts from his time on

I agree. Daniel is told of 4 beasts that are 4 kings that come from the earth
Daniel 7:17 These four great beasts are four kings who will arise from the earth.
Daniel is also told that the 4th king is a kingdom
Daniel 7:23 ‘The fourth beast is a fourth kingdom that will appear on the earth,

John/Jesus told of all 7 Kingdoms in the Region, Egypt, Assyria, Babylon, Persia, Greece, Rome

John is never told that the 7 heads are 7 kingdoms. He is simply told that they are kings and hills
Revelation 17:9-10 The seven heads are seven mountains on which the woman sits. There are also seven kings.

There is no scripture that defines the heads are Egypt, assyria, Babylon, Persia, Greece, Rome. that would be a personal interpretation.

So the 7 Headed (earthly Kingdoms)

It doesn't say kingdoms, it says the 7 heads are kings
Revelation 17:9-10 The seven heads are seven mountains on which the woman sits. There are also seven kings.

which has 10 Horns (Kings from Europe)

scripture doesn't say they are "kings of Europe". It simply states they are kings. Any identification outside of scripture would be a personal interpretation. Unless you can provide scripture that states they are kings of Europe?

Satan is who is being spoken of in Rev. 12,

I agree because scripture defines the dragon as satan:

Revelation 12:9 9And the great dragon was hurled down—the ancient serpent called the devil and Satan, the deceiver of the whole world.

The Beast/Anri-Christ/Little Horn is being spoken of in Rev. 13, thus the 10 CROWNS on the 10 Horns who freely give their power unto the Beast.

Just to clarify, you are saying that in revelation 12, only 7 kings had given their power to satan, thus 7 crowns, but by the time of revelation 13, 10 kings have given their power to satan, thus 10 crowns?

Because its about Apollyon, the Scarlet Colored Beast that arises from he Bottomless Pit. Thus NO CROWNS, he is under Satan.

Apollyon is scarlet? where does it say that?
They had tails with stingers like scorpions, which had the power to injure people for five months. They were ruled by a king, the angel of the Abyss. His name in Hebrew is Abaddon,a and in Greek it is Apollyon.b
 
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claninja

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Yes, that is true regarding the first five verses as being historic. Those verses identify the woman as being Israel in the rest of the chapter.

So then it appears you agree, the 7 heads, 10 horns, and 7 crowns of the red dragon existed during the time of Jesus' birth.

If you notice in Revelation 17, the beast is scarlet colored. Also an indicator of Satan.

I have. the red dragon of revelation 12 and the scarlet beast of revelation 17 are eerily similar.

is that the unclean spirit (called the beast) is in the bottomless pit -at the
time of John (Revelation 17)

where does revelation state the beast is an unclean spirit?

Satan is not portrayed as the beast in Revelation 13.

Interesting to note, by worshiping the beast, they worship the dragon
Revelation 13:4 They worshiped the dragon who had given authority to the beast, and they worshiped the beast, saying, “Who is like the beast, and who can wage war against it?”

If you look at my chart you will see the person becoming the beast after he reveals himself as the man of sin, and is killed for it. claninja, what I should probably do is improve my chart to show the crowns on heads and horns at their appropriate place. I think this would help.

none of this really answers why the dragon had 7 crowns in revelation 12, but the beast had 10 crowns in revelation 13.
 
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Douggg

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none of this really answers why the dragon had 7 horns in revelation 12, but the beast had 10 horns in revelation 13.
claninja, I highlighted part of your text.

Take another look at Revelation 12:3. It is 7 heads, not 7 horns.

3 And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads.

All the way through Revelation 17, 12, 13 beast has 7 heads and ten horns. The difference comes is that the crowns/no crowns are different in the chapters.
 
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Revealing Times

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John is never told that the 7 heads are 7 kingdoms. He is simply told that they are kings and hills
Revelation 17:9-10 The seven heads are seven mountains on which the woman sits. There are also seven kings.

There is no scripture that defines the heads are Egypt, assyria, Babylon, Persia, Greece, Rome. that would be a personal interpretation.
For starters they are not mountains, they are 7 kings who have ARISEN, the very next verse tells us that, the word used for Mountains means one that arises above the plains. The 7 Heads were 7 Kingdoms, we see that in Rev. 13 where The Lion, Leopard and Bear ar shown to be a part of this 7 headed beast in order to inform us who they are. A Beasts are described in Dan. 7 in depth, it is one that Conquers, Enslaves or Rules Israel and the Mediterranean Sea Region. Why do we have so much problem admitting the obvious ? The whole 7 Mountains is a FALSE FLAG.

Now, how many "BEASTS" have there actually been that ruled over this Region, BEFORE Israel were dispersed the world over just after Jesus died ? Egypt, Assyria, Babylon, Persia, Greece and Rome and the last Beast will be a MAN/Anti-Christ/Little Horn etc. etc.

The reason John describes three of the four is to tell us these are the same Beasts from Dan. 7. Then we get the MORTAL WOUND which is/was Rome. When the Anti-Christ Conquers Jerusalem he will thus rule for 42 Months !! It's quite clear actually.

It doesn't say kingdoms, it says the 7 heads are kings
Revelation 17:9-10 The seven heads are seven mountains on which the woman sits. There are also seven kings.

Kings rule Kingdoms, SEE Above, we know who they are brother.

scripture doesn't say they are "kings of Europe". It simply states they are kings. Any identification outside of scripture would be a personal interpretation. Unless you can provide scripture that states they are kings of Europe?

Of course it does, see Dan. 7, the 10 Horns and the Little Horn arise out of the Fourth Beasts Head. He has to be born in Greece (Dan. 8) he's an Assyrian (Isaiah 10) or a Turk who is born in Greece, and he thus comes to power out of the Fourth Beast (Europe). This whole Islam angle is bunk, Joel Richardson is off kilter. Islam will be wiped out.

I agree because scripture defines the dragon as satan:

Revelation 12:9 9And the great dragon was hurled down—the ancient serpent called the devil and Satan, the deceiver of the whole world.
Easiest one to understand because it explains itself.

Just to clarify, you are saying that in revelation 12, only 7 kings had given their power to satan, thus 7 crowns, but by the time of revelation 13, 10 kings have given their power to satan, thus 10 crowns?

No sir, we are ONLY SEEING the Beasts/Rulers over Israel AND the Mediterranean Sea Region whilst Israel were ALIVE........God saw Israel as Dead Men's Bones for nigh 2000 years until 1948, so there could be no Beast over Israel until they were brought back to life again, thus the Brits were not a Beast nor were the Ottoman Empire etc. etc.

There are MANY Kingdoms Satan is over, he is over New York City, L.A., Indiana Russia etc. etc. but these 7 are ALL ABOUT and in juxtaposition to Israel. Thus the 7 Crowns that Israel have been Beasted over by !! The coming Anti-Christ will last for 42 Months.

The 10 Horns are 10 Kings ( I see them as E.U. Kings) who give their KINGDOMS over unto the Anti-Christ, three of them seem to to change their minds and thus the Anti-Christ will destroy them. The Anti-Christ is KING over the 10, but he is the 7th Head so Satan is OVER HIM.

The Beast has 7 Heads..........AND.............10 Horns.

Apollyon is scarlet? where does it say that?
They had tails with stingers like scorpions, which had the power to injure people for five months. They were ruled by a king, the angel of the Abyss. His name in Hebrew is Abaddon,a and in Greek it is Apollyon.

In Rev. 17, it tells you he came up from the Abyss !! Put it together brother. He is the one that kills the Two-witnesses also. He WAS...........IS NOT (is currently in the Abyss)...............YET IS (will be released at the 1st Woe). He was OF THE SEVEN so he was placed over the Mediterranean Sea Region by Satan, I think he was the Prince of Persia that withstood Michael for 21 days in Dan. ch. 10.
 
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claninja

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claninja

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For starters they are not mountains,

You say they are not mountains, but scripture states they are. I'll go with scripture:
revelation 17:9 This calls for a mind that has wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains on which the woman sits. There are also seven kings

they are 7 kings who have ARISEN,

I agree as scripture states that:
revelation 17:9 This calls for a mind that has wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains on which the woman sits. There are also seven kings

the word used for Mountains means one that arises above the plains.

the definition of a mountain:
a large natural elevation of the earth's surface rising abruptly from the surrounding level; a large steep hill.

the exact greek word for mountains in revelation 17:9 is found 6 other times in scripture. All 6 times it refers to mountains.

From strongs:

a mountain, hill

Probably from an obsolete oro (to rise or "rear"; perhaps akin to airo; compare ornis); a mountain (as lifting itself above the plain): -hill, mount(-ain).


The 7 Heads were 7 Kingdoms

This is false. There is no scripture that states the 7 heads are "kingdoms". it states they are "kings"

revelation 17:9 This calls for a mind that has wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains on which the woman sits. There are also seven kings


we see that in Rev. 13 where The Lion, Leopard and Bear ar shown to be a part of this 7 headed beast in order to inform us who they are.

I agree

The whole 7 Mountains is a FALSE FLAG.

No, I would disagree. the angel states the 7 heads are 7 mountains. I'll side with angel.

Now how many "BEASTS" have there actually been that ruled over this Region, BEFORE Israel were dispersed the world over just after Jesus died ? Egypt, Assyria,

Are there scriptures that states Egypt and Assyria were beasts?

Babylon, Persia, Greece and Rome

Daniel 2 and 7 describe these empires.

Then we get the MORTAL WOUND which is/was Rome.

Where does scripture identify the wound as rome?

Kings rule Kingdoms,

not the 10 kings of revelation 17

Revelation 17:12 ten horns you saw are ten kings who have not yet received a kingdom but will receive one hour of authority as kings, along with the beast.


Of course it does, see Dan. 7, the 10 Horns and the Little Horn arise out of the Fourth Beasts Head. He has to be born in Greece (Dan. 8) he's an Assyrian (Isaiah 10) or a Turk born in Greece, and he thus comes to power out of the Fourth Beast (Europe).

Daniel 8 is about Antiochus from about 2200 years ago.
Isaiah 10 is about the Assyrian Empire from over several thousand years ago

Easiest one to understand because it explains itself.

because the vision interprets the symbol. If it didn't, I bet you there would be 100 different interpretation on this forum.

No sir, we are ONLY SEEING the Beasts/Rulers over Israel AND the Mediterranean Sea Region whilst Israel were ALIVE........God saw Israel as Dead Men's Bones for nigh 2000 years until 1948, so there could be no Beast over Israel until they were brought back to life again, this the Brits were ot a Beast nor were the Ottoman Empire etc. etc.

There are MANY Kingdoms Sata is over, he is over New York City, L.A., Indiana Russia etc. etc. but these 7 are ALL ABOUT and in juxtaposition to Israel. Thus the 7 Crowns that Israel have been Beasted over by !! The Anti-Christ will last for 42 Months.

The 10 Horns are 10 Kings ( I see them as E.U. Kings) who give their KINGDOMS over unto the Anti-Christ, three of them seem to to change their minds and thus the Anti-Christ will destroy them. The Anti-Christ is KING over the 10, but he is the 7th Head so Satan is OVER HIM.

The Beast has 7 Heads..........AND.............10 Horns.

how does this answer the OP, why does the dragon have 7 crowns and the beast in the next chapter have 10 crowns?

The 10 Horns are 10 Kings ( I see them as E.U. Kings) who give their KINGDOMS

personal interpretation, as there are no scriptures that define the 10 horns as the E.U.

In Rev. 17, it tells you he came up from the Abyss !!

So do locusts in revelation 9

so does satan in revelation 20

Revelation 20:3,7 And he threw him into the Abyss, shut it
When the thousand years are complete, Satan will be released from his prison,
 
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Revealing Times

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You say they are not mountains, but scripture states they are. I'll go with scripture:
revelation 17:9 This calls for a mind that has wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains on which the woman sits. There are also seven kings

The Scriptures say OROS (Greek word) which means ONE WHO ARISES ABOVE THE PLANE, and then says THEY ARE ALSO 7 Kings. I should clarify, they are not MOUNTAINS in one place, they are not Mountains anyway in reality, it's a Metaphor for KINGDOMS who have KINGS that ARISE like Mountains above the plane. (They are 7 Different Places !! Not 7 Mountains in one place)

Why are we told this ? Think about it. God is trying to show us something via REDUCING here as in 10/20, to 5/10 to 1/2. We are shown that this 7 Headed Beast is 7 Kingdoms, who started out with with Kings who arose of course, these are the 7 Kingdoms the Harlot Rides on the back of, in other words she has been co-mingled with Babylon, Persia, Greece, Rome etc. etc. But then God REDUCES EVERYTHING, and says they are ALSO 7 Kings, 5 have Fallen (Egypt, Assyria, Babylon, Persia and Greece, WE KNOW who they are)..........ONE IS (Rome) and one is YET TO COME (Anti-Christ who Conquers Jerusalem to become the BEAST). So God reduced the Kingdoms to Kings who arose and then tells us SPECIFICALLY about the Kings who fall or lose Dominion.

WHY ? Because the Last Beast, the Anti-Christ, is the only one of all the Beast Kingdoms to never pass his Kingdom on to another King !! He both ARISES and FALLS in a 42 Month period, none of the other Beasts did this !! This is what God wants us to know, this last Beast is a MAN !! Not a Kingdom per se like the others. The number of the Beast is thus the Number of a MAN (666). Thus God reduces the Kingdoms to MEN WHO FALL in order to explain unto us that the last Beast will be a MAN, the Man of Sin, the Little Horn, now we know to look for A MAN......Not a Kingdom per se.

the definition of a mountain:
a large natural elevation of the earth's surface rising abruptly from the surrounding level; a large steep hill.

the exact greek word for mountains in revelation 17:9 is found 6 other times in scripture. All 6 times it refers to mountains.

From strongs:

a mountain, hill

Probably from an obsolete oro (to rise or "rear"; perhaps akin to airo; compare ornis); a mountain (as lifting itself above the plain): -hill, mount(-ain).

I explained all of this above, before I saw this, so I think I have covered this.

This is false. There is no scripture that states the 7 heads are "kingdoms". it states they are "kings"

revelation 17:9 This calls for a mind that has wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains on which the woman sits. There are also seven kings
You better get with it my friend, this is easy stuff as per Eschatology.

Which answers the above WHYS.....................Why they are 7 Kingdoms.

No, I would disagree. the angel states the 7 heads are 7 mountains. I'll side with angel.
It's a Metaphor, but the FALSE FLAG is when people think its 7 Mountains in ONE PLACE, no, it's a Metaphor for 7 Kingdoms the Harlot Religion has been riding throughout history. She flourished at her zenith in Babylon, thus she was of them all, thus they are 7 different places. See Rev. 13, we see Babylon, Persia and Greece mentioned, we also see Rome, who suffered the MORTAL WOUND because the Church could not be overcome by the gates of hell !! We turned Rome from a Beast to a Conveyor belt of the Gospel of Jesus Christ.

Are there scriptures that states Egypt and Assyria were beasts?
Yes, Daniel tells us what a Beast is, then Rev. 13 tells you there are 7 Heads to the Beasts and that the Lion, Bear and Leopard are a part of them. Rev. 17 tells us that 5 have fallen and ONE IS (Rome) So who could possibly be the 5 that were Beasts before Rome ? Well it can only be Egypt, Assyria, Babylon, Persia and Greece who had fallen. No other nations had BEASTED over Israel at the time Rme was in power but those 5. This is pretty basic stuff.

Daniel 2 and 7 describe these empires.
And it describes a LITTLE HORN (5th Beast) also.

Where does scripture identify the wound as rome?
It is for us to understand via the Holy Spirit. The world can't see these things. Jesus told the disciples why he spoke in parables, so the world seeing would not see and hearing would not hear. God gives us these things in code.

Rev. 13 tells us the Beast has a MORTAL WOUND, well who was the Beast over Israel when John wrote that ? Rome, what happened to Rome ? They went from a mortal enemies to Christians to the world wide conveyor belt of Christianity, the Pax-Romanus was the perfect conveyor belt to spread the Gospel to the world. "All roads lead to Rome", travel in Rome for all of its citizenry was basically unlimited, the subjects all basically spoke one language, Koine Greek, which is why the New Testament was written in Greek of course. So Rome was a BEAST !!! Rome suffered a MORTAL WOUND as per being a Beast over Israel for two Reasons. The Church can not be overcome by the gates of hell, and there was NO ISRAEL to Beast over, God dispersed them around the world because of disobedience, Ezekiel foretold this, Israel became as Dead Men's Bones !! Only in 1948 did God breath life back into Israel, and they have not yet been Conquered by the Man of Sin/Little Horn/Anti-Christ yet, when the Rapture happens, then the Beast will ARISE AGAIN, the Anti-Christ will be allowed to go forth Conquering when Jesus opens the First Seal, then the Beast will ARISE in the Mediterranean Sea Region once again. That is when the MORTAL WOUND of this figurative Beast is thus HEALED.

not the 10 kings of revelation 17

Revelation 17:12 ten horns you saw are ten kings who have not yet received a kingdom but will receive one hour of authority as kings, along with the beast.

They rule over their Nations, but they give their Kingdoms/Power over unto the Anti-Christ. The 7 Heads are Kingdoms also, just on a larger scale, everyone of those other 6 Beasts also had Kingdoms they overran and ruled. Persia conquered Babylon and ruled them, Greece conquered Persia and ruled them, etc. etc.

Daniel 8 is about Antiochus from about 2200 years ago.
Isaiah 10 is about the Assyrian Empire from over several thousand years ago
Reread Isaiah 10, its about the End Time Anti-Christ, as soon as he is defeated we see chapter 11 starts out with the Lamb will lie down with the Wolf (not the Lion as is popularized). So he is an Assyrian. Dan. 8 is about the Anti-Christ/Little Horn, not Antiochus Epiphanes. God is giving us where he is from, we just have to receive it.

because the vision interprets the symbol. If it didn't, I bet you there would be 100 different interpretation on this forum.
Yes, but with much study and prayer, we can gain this understanding from God.

how does this answer the OP, why does the dragon have 7 crowns and the beast in the next chapter have 10 crowns?
One is on the HEADS.............the other is on the HORNS. The Last Head, Last Beast or the Anti-Christ has 10 Horns who arise with him. It designates who they are.

personal interpretation, as there are no scriptures that define the 10 horns as the E.U.

Yes there is, what you really mean is you think he's a Muslim/Islam (RIGHT?) thus it can't be OUT OF THE FOURTH BEASTS HEAD even though that is what the scriptures say in Dan. ch. 7.

So do locusts in revelation 9

so does satan in revelation 20

Revelation 20:3,7 And he threw him into the Abyss, shut it
When the thousand years are complete, Satan will be released from his prison,
The Locusts are DEMONS and Apollyon is their King. Reread it in chapter 9 (1st Woe). Satan being released 1000 years after Jesus takes over of course can have nothing to do with the Anti-Christ or 7 Headed Beast.
 
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Revealing Times

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I know exactly what they are, and they have zero to do with Roman Emperors, that is for sure.

SEARCH THE SCRIPTURE :

Dan. 7:17 These great beasts, which are four, are four kings, which shall arise out of the earth.
 
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claninja

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The Scriptures say OROS (Greek word) which means ONE WHO ARISES ABOVE THE PLANE,

This is just plainly a false statement. Where are you getting this definition from? There is no definition of ONE who arises above a plain.

Strongs dictionary defines the greek word oros as:
a mountain, hilll; Probably from an obsolete oro (to rise or "rear"; perhaps akin to airo; compare ornis); a mountain (as lifting itself above the plain): -hill, mount(-ain).

The oxford dictionary defines a mountain as:
A large natural elevation of the earth's surface rising abruptly from the surrounding level; a large steep hill

outside of revelatin 17:9, the greek word "ore" is used 6 times. every time it means mountain. Since we disagree with the definition of ore in revelation 17:9 can you provide scripture or secular works where ore does not mean mountain?


they are not Mountains anyway in reality, it's a Metaphor for KINGDOMS who have KINGS that ARISE like Mountains above the plane.

The vision (metaphor) is explained as another metaphor. So the heads aren't really heads their mountains, but the mountains aren't really mountains they are just a metaphor?

I disagree, I still side with the angel who said the 7 heads are 7 mountains and 7 kings.

(They are 7 Different Places !! Not 7 Mountains in one place)

Please provide scripture that states they are 7 different places, otherwise this is just another personal interpretation from the 1000 others that are on this site.

Why are we told this ? Think about it. God is trying to show us something via REDUCING here as in 10/20, to 5/10 to 1/2. We are shown that this 7 Headed Beast is 7 Kingdoms, who started out with with Kings who arose of course, these are the 7 Kingdoms the Harlot Rides on the back of, in other words she has been co-mingled with Babylon, Persia, Greece, Rome etc. etc. But then God REDUCES EVERYTHING, and says they are ALSO 7 Kings, 5 have Fallen (Egypt, Assyria, Babylon, Persia and Greece, WE KNOW who they are)..........ONE IS (Rome) and one is YET TO COME (Anti-Christ who Conquers Jerusalem to become the BEAST). So God reduced the Kingdoms to Kings who arose and then tells us SPECIFICALLY about the Kings who fall or lose Dominion.

until you provide scripture that states the heads are egypt, assyria, babylon, persia, greece, rome, etc, this is just your personal interpretation. One of many thousands that are on this site.

You better get with it my friend, this is easy stuff as per Eschatology.

Considering you are just one of 1000 different interpretations that don't support their theories with scripture, I would disagree. And don't give me that but "i had a vision". There are so many people on the forum that have different views on revelation who have state "i had a vision". so who's vision is right?

Which answers the above WHYS.....................Why they are 7 Kingdoms.

It actually doesn't though. Caesar augustus was king of the roman empire. Herod the great was the king of Judea. The jews considered Herod and pontius as "kings of the earth".

Acts 4:27-28 The kings of the earth take their stand and the rulers gather together
against the Lord and against His Anointed One.’c In fact, in this very city Herod and Pontius Pilate

It's a Metaphor, but the FALSE FLAG is when people think its 7 Mountains in ONE PLACE, no, it's a Metaphor for 7 Kingdoms the Harlot Religion has been riding throughout history. She flourished at her zenith in Babylon, thus she was of them all, thus they are 7 different places. See Rev. 13, we see Babylon, Persia and Greece mentioned, we also see Rome, who suffered the MORTAL WOUND because the Church could not be overcome by the gates of hell !! We turned Rome from a Beast to a Conveyor belt of the Gospel of Jesus Christ.

The angel interprets the vision as another metaphor? I disagree. I'll stick with the angel who defines the heads as mountains and kings.

And it describes a LITTLE HORN (5th Beast) also.

where does scripture mention specfically the number 5 in daniel 2 and 7?

It is for us to understand via the Holy Spirit. The world can't see these things. Jesus told the disciples why he spoke in parables, so the world seeing would not see and hearing would not hear. God gives us these things in code.

When Jesus explained his parables, was it just another metaphor?

for example, notice that Jesus is defining the components of the parable


Matthew 13:27-29 He replied, “The One who sows the good seed is the Son of Man. 38The field is the world, and the good seed represents the sons of the kingdom. The weeds are the sons of the evil one, 39and the enemy who sows them is the devil. The harvest is the end of the age, and the harvesters are angels.

So is the one who sows the seed not really the son of man. is the son of man a metaphor for something else? is the field not really the world, but the world a metaphor for something else? are the weeds not really the sons of the devil, but a metaphor for something else?

because that is what your are saying. The angel defines the 7 heads as 7 mountains and 7 kings. but you take it a step further and say the mountains and kings are metaphors.

Yes there is,

prove it then, post scripture that states the 10 horns come specifically from the E.U.

what you really mean is you think he's a Muslim/Islam (RIGHT?)

No, I don't believe that at all actually
 
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Douggg

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where does revelation state the beast is an unclean spirit?
I was referring to Revelation 17:8, which can be interpreted to be in two parts. The first part referring to the beast in the bottomless pit even at the time of John. The second part referring to the end times person who will be killed but comes back to life.

The unclean spirit would be the beast in the bottomless pit. It does not say directly - unclean spirit.

But because of the terminology, "was, and is not", that beast is no longer in bodily form.

8 The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition:

When he ascends out of the bottomless pit - the choices are he is resurrected in a new body, which I don't see any indication of that. Or he comes out in spirit form. Like the unclean spirits that Jesus and the disciples cast out of people, who had become possessed by them.

The other person, in the second part in Revelation 17:8, is the end times person, who will be mortally wounded, witnessed by the world, but comes back to life.

So the end result is a combining of those two. The end times person. And the unclean spirit who ascends out of the bottomless pit.

We are told in Revelation 16...

13 And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet.

...which it appears to me that Satan, the beast, and the false prophet, can direct unclean spirits to carry out tasks.

14 For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty.

In the gospels, unclean spirits are also called devils. Some sort of beings without physical bodies like we have.

My suspicion is the beast in the bottomless pit is the spirit of Nimrod. It will be more apparent who the beast in the bottomless pit actually is, I think, when the time actually comes for the end times person to enter the beast stage of his time.
 
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Revealing Times

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This is just plainly a false statement. Where are you getting this definition from? There is no definition of ONE who arises above a plain.

Strongs dictionary defines the greek word oros as:
a mountain, hilll; Probably from an obsolete oro (to rise or "rear"; perhaps akin to airo; compare ornis); a mountain (as lifting itself above the plain): -hill, mount(-ain).

The oxford dictionary defines a mountain as:
A large natural elevation of the earth's surface rising abruptly from the surrounding level; a large steep hill

outside of revelatin 17:9, the greek word "ore" is used 6 times. every time it means mountain. Since we disagree with the definition of ore in revelation 17:9 can you provide scripture or secular works where ore does not mean mountain?

You just don't seem to be quite grasping the passage IMHO my brother. And yes, it clearly states this OROS..........a mountain (as lifting itself above the plain)..........which points to a King that arises above the plains. They very structure of the verses tells us it's not a Mountain but Kings. It says the seven Heads are seven mountains on which the woman sits. And they are also Seven Kings. So if we listen it's telling you that it's transitioning the 7 Heads (Kingdoms) to seven Kings that arise above the plains. All we have to do is read the text below !!

Rev. 17:9 And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth. 10 And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space.

The proper translation of verse 10 is AND THEY ARE ALSO SEVEN KINGS !! Who is the Woman ? She is Harlotry or False Religion, she has of course rode the back of all these Kingdoms with FALSE GODS !! They have all been co-mingled down through the ages. Not knowing these are 7 different Kingdoms means your Eschatology is lacking big time brother, that's as simple a 7 X 1 = 7.

The vision (metaphor) is explained as another metaphor. So the heads aren't really heads their mountains, but the mountains aren't really mountains they are just a metaphor?

I disagree, I still side with the angel who said the 7 heads are 7 mountains and 7 kings.

The whole book of Revelation is based off of Metaphors. The Angel is told by God to REDUCE the Kingdoms to Kings who fell for a specific reason which I shall show. So the Seven Heads (which are 7 Kingdoms) are called Mountains that ARISE ABOVE THE PLAINS, not Mountains in one city, but 7 different Mountains which stand for 7 different Kings. How do we know this ? They stand for 7 different Kingdoms, God is REDUCING the 7 Kingdoms to 7 Kings for a specific reason here.

We know who they are because he says 5 have FALLEN (Egypt, Assyria, Babylon, Persia, and Greece.....If you can't understand who they are that's on you not me or anyone else, this os basic stuff brother).............ONE IS (Rome was the Beast when John wrote Revelation)............And one is YET TO COME (The Anti-Christ conquers Jerusalem/Israel and MANY Nations to become THE BEAST for 42 Months). There has only been 6 Kingdoms that have ruled over Israel in such a manner a being a BEAST over them. We know who they are, thy are all 7 listed in history. Then Israel was dispersed for nigh 2000 years by God, who saw them as Dead Men's Bones, in other words Israel did not even exist for nigh 2000 years, then God breathed life back into those bones in 1948 and raised Israel back to life. The BEAST can thus come forth when he Conquers Jerusalem.

Why did God reduce the Kingdoms to Kings ? There is a specific reason He did this. All of the other Beasts like the Lion (Babylon), Bear (Persia), Leopard (Greece) and Fierce Beast with Iron teeth (Rome) we Kingdoms passed from one king to another king. This last Beast Head will be ONE MAN not a Kingdom per se, that is what God wants us to focus on, that is why he reduces the Seven Kingdoms to Seven Kings who ARISE..............And then shows how they all FALL...........5 have already fallen, one is..........and will fall shortly..........and one is not yet come BUT...........When he does come he will rule but a SHORT SPACE !! (42 Months).

God wants us to not be looking for a Kingdoms but a A MAN, that is why Rev. 13 tells us the number of the Beast is the number of A MAN !! He thus reduces as in (10/20 ro 5/10 to 1/2), the Kingdoms to Kings and tells us about them. Now we understand that this LAST BEAST HEAD will be different from all the rest, he will be the only Beast that both ARISES & FALLS as the Beast !! That is the whole point the Angel is showing us. So the MOUNTAINS could never be in ONE PLACE, it's a False Flag, the Mountains stands for Kings that AROSE and then Kings that FALL later on, and only ONE KING. The Anti-Christ both becomes the Beast and Dies as the Beast and is cast straight into hell fire, no other Beast does this, that is why the Last Beast is not a Kingdom per se, but A MAN. In a roundabout way Daniel also confirms the Beasts are Kings also who arise.

Dan. 7:17 These great beasts, which are four, are four kings, which shall arise out of the earth.

Please provide scripture that states they are 7 different places, otherwise this is just another personal interpretation from the 1000 others that are on this site.

If you don't know this I doubt I can help you very much. It's obvious who they are, and I have been called to Prophecy for over 30 years. All one has to do is look at who BEASTS ARE in Dan. chapter 7 and what makes them a Beast. The fact that 5 ARE FALLEN before Rome is the clincher. It can be nothing other that Egypt, Assyria, Babylon, Persia and Rome. That is the only 5 who ruled over the Mediterranean Sea Region, and remember, in both Dan. 7 and Rev. 13 they all Arose out of the Great (Mediterranean) Sea.

until you provide scripture that states the heads are egypt, assyria, babylon, persia, greece, rome, etc, this is just your personal interpretation. One of many thousands that are on this site.

Again, God gives us riddles, parables and metaphors on purpose, so the world will not understand the things of God even when they hear and see it, Jesus told us this. We are shown the Beasts of Daniel in Rev. 13 by the names, thus we understand the Heads are these Beasts. With 5 having FALLEN before Rome all we have t do is use common sense to understand who they are. If you don't think Egypt and Assyria were Beasts over the Mediterranean Sea Region, you might try looking at a map of each Kingdom. I will add all of them here...........

51+ZIz-iSTL (1).jpg

EGYPT'S EMPIRE Above:

Map_of_Assyria.png

ASSYRIAN EMPIRE Above............

babylonmap.gif

BABYLONIAN EMPIRE.............The Lion

1.jpg

PERSIAN EMPIRE...............The Bear.

15.jpg

GRECIAN EMPIRE.....................The Leopard

peak-of-roman-empire.gif

ROMAN EMPIRE.......The Fierce Beast with Iron teeth.

954918050865d37c35d6e2f762917aca (1) EPN.jpg

The European Neighborhood Policy Map.....Anti-Christs Kingdom ?

The European Neighborhood Policy is the European Union and its treaties with all of these countries to the east and more importantly to the south, in my honest opinion, these are the "MANY" [Nations] in Daniel 8:25, Daniel 9:27 and Daniel 11:40-43.

NOTICE: The Old Roman Empire Map looks almost exactly like this last map on the bottom when all the countries are "COMBINED" and the Last Beast/Anti-Christ is going to Conquer these nations according to Daniel 11:40-43. Thus the Anti-Christ, is born in Greece (Dan. 8), he is an Assyrian (Turk) according to Isaiah chapter 10, and who thus comes to power out of the Fourth Beast (Dan. 7).

These are the 7 Beasts brother. As per the LAST BEAST, I know he comes out of the E.U. and I am pretty sure he will conquer these Countries shown above who the E.U. currently has 7 year treaties or agreements with, believe it or not. GOOGLE The European Neighborhood Policy !! They actually have 7 Year Agreements in place. They were reuped in 2014 and are set to be renewed again in 2020. Satan is always ready for his opportunity.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Getting long brother. I will finish in another post. God Bless.
 
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Douggg

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I know exactly what they are, and they have zero to do with Roman Emperors, that is for sure.

SEARCH THE SCRIPTURE :

Dan. 7:17 These great beasts, which are four, are four kings, which shall arise out of the earth.
I don't know what you trying to prove. The point being made is in the text of Revelation 17:10 it is kings not kingdoms.
 
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