1000 years in heaven.

BobRyan said:

The world is in ruins at the 2nd coming - but the rocks still exist .. just as Peter said the world was "destroyed by the flood" in 2Peter 3 -- but this does not mean the planet did not exist

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Wooaahhh hang on there Bob... the rocky world is simply the new world... cleansed of complications and snares...

BobRyan said:

Certainly I agree with that - but the term "Dead in Christ" is not limited to just saints that were killed when read in context.

In 1 Thess 4 we find the term "the dead in Christ" which is about all the dead in Christ at the first resurrection - but the funeral being had in 1Thess 4 is never said to be for one who was killed for their faith. They simply died as in fact all the living of that day 2000 years ago were eventually going to die.

In that respect all the saints in all ages give their life for Christ -- choosing to live for Christ and reject the world.

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When we read though brother, we see it twice saying specifically that these are those who were killed or beheaded for his testimony. Revelation 6:9-11; Revelation 20:4

In Revelation 6:9-11 we hear the lord telling them to rest for a little season until other Christians are killed for God's testimony as they were. Then giving them white robes, if we compare this to revealtion 20:4 we see the same thing. It says these are those who were killed for Christ, who did not bow down or worship the beast(being killed because of it) then being raised to have thrones and Judgment.

BobRyan said:

You read 2 Peter 3 as one literal day - in the very chapter that says that with the Lord "a day is as a thousand years" where it talks about the 'day of the Lord'. But the term "day of the Lord" is not a unit of time - but rather an event that spans some period of time. "day of judgment" or as Christ said of Abraham "Abraham saw My day and was glad".

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Brother, look at the description in 2 Peter 3 of the Lord's day and then compare it to the rest of the Passages provided and you will see they are all speaking of a single day. An hour, a final trump, a moment, a twinkling of an eye.

As to the thousand years being as a day, it is saying the way we experience time with God will be unlike anything we now know.

I read somewhere, once, about an ancient semitic text called the 'enuma elish' or something that described a period when a 'God' was being assaulted by 'too much noise' and decided to withdraw his life-giving covenant to his erstwhile minions.

I see this period as the flood in action.. a flood of ideas and thoughts... so easy to drown or lose one's way, carried off by the current. But Noah knew better.. he built an ark that was impervious to water (i.e. confusion).. he stayed strong in faith and floated above it all until it receded. The desert, as far as I can see, is the landscape of the mind..

BobRyan said:

Both Matt 24 and 1Cor 15 describe only the second coming event. They do not have "the elements of Earth" melting.

By contrast in Rev 20 at the New Jerusalem event - we have the "Lake of Fire" were in fact the wicked and all the Earth are melting.

2 Peter 3:7
7 But by His word the present heavens and earth are being reserved for fire, kept for the day of judgment and destruction of ungodly men.

2 Pet 2:12 NASB
12 But these, like unreasoning animals, born as creatures of instinct to be captured and killed, reviling where they have no knowledge, will in the destruction of those creatures also be destroyed,

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That makes so much sense!! As Jesus said, those who try to save their lives will forfeit them... instinctive action!

"Christ takes all the saints to heaven for 1000 years at the 2nd coming"... sorry I cant find that written? I can find 1000...but.. yeah.. us being in heaven for a 1000 years with Christ.. not written. Unless I misunderstand... I know Christ comes back with? Us... those that didnt bow take the mark so forth so on.. go with Him as do we.

Or in Rev 20.. where you say the "Rev 20 says the wicked are resurrected and they surround the camp of the saints. -- the New Jerusalem"...sorry I cant find where it says "the wicked are resurrected" I do find "
And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison, And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea."

Those are the ones that go surround the city.. and then GOD fire.. comes down.. we know the rest. We know Christ comes back with us " To the end he may stablish your hearts unblameable in holiness before God, even our Father, at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ with all his saints.".. ALL

Sorry ...well MANY for hundreds of years to this very day study this and still try to understand so I by no means am a expert.... I take it as its written....there are times we must take it differently like..if I said. I am bored to death.. duh.. dont mean death.. or where it talked about Satan.. duh he is no dragon.. Or if John say some computer screen or cell phone or NUKE.. he would say it in only the way they could in that day and age.

For me .. simple is.. and again NO EXPERT and DUH can be wrong lol.. but as I read it.. He left to make us a home.. and is coming back to get us. Now Israel as I read it in OT Daniel and others..Israel owes come sometime.. as in 7 years.. 3 1/2 3 1/2. Before that Christ comes takes His Church.. and when the Trib starts.. could be that day or some time after.. for the Antichrist can not come out till that which is holding him back is TAKEN out of the way.. I see that as US.. for the CHURCH has ALL power over Satan. Then Satan makes some deal with as its written MANY.. the start.. bad time.. awful.. I pray ALL listen and go but.. I know its not so. So...just like a old Jewish wedding.. where he takes his bride back to his fathers house for about a week..

Christ comes back with us... as its written even in a book that is not in the bible 10k of 10k of His saints.. Just tossing that in there .. then Christ gathers the nations as its written.. and THOSE are the sheep and goats.. Sheep go with Christ for 1000y.. and in that chapter its 1000 said 6 times. But JUST before that Satan is bound for 1000y. We that are born again have been Changed.. rule with Christ..people enjoy JESUS being KING as it was foretold OT NT.. what the 12 asked Him once.. are you now going to RULE.. blah blah blah.. He said of those times and seasons only the Father knows..

People still have kids.. families... Satan after 1000y is set free for a short time.. he gets nations and people to come around that holy City and God burns them up.. then those that bowed to the mark and all the others LOST face GOD FOR BID.. the great white throne.

That is a AWFUL read lol.. I am no writer.. forgive me. This is how I see it.. YES I can wonder ask WHY are we with Him? Because we will not be temped again.. not happening ..me? Just SAVED... with our FATHER praise GOD GLORY TO JESUS..

And.. how AWESOME is it for those that study this.. I mean that.. thanks for sharing for I do read it.. not just glance over.. I KNOW I am not right.. but He is.. and as He said in Daniel.. this knowledge is increasing.. I like what one said.. not the world but US.. the WORD OF GOD.. that knowledge is increasing.. I just like that never heard it like that said

Ty!

Except for the few Gentiles that were grafted into Israel and were in the All-Israel church during Acts, everyone that will be resurrected at Christ's ONLY second Coming are Jews. They will meet Christ in the air and then return with Him to start ISRAEL'S LITERAL EARTHLY MILLENNIUM. Without distorting scripture, that is the ONLY conclusion a Bible Believer can come up with.

No Jew is EVER said to have a Hope of going to Heaven - Search and See. No Jew will EVER be transported to Heaven. Israel are an earthly people. Their callings are the New Earth, or the New Jerusalem, which isn't Heaven. It will be attached to the New Earth.

The only people in the Bible said to have a Hope of going to the Highest Heaven, where Christ sits at the right hand of God, are today's Gentile church, Ephesians 1:20, Ephesians 2:6, with a citizenship in Heaven, Philippians 3:20. This Church is part of a Mystery Hid in God, from every age and generation, Ephesians 3:9, Colossians 1:26, way before there was an Israel, and was revealed to Paul after Israel was set aside, Ephesians 3:3, as a nation, in Acts of the Apostles 28:28, 64AD. This all-Gentile Church will be resurrected at Christ's Appearing, His epiphaneia, 1 Timothy 6:14, 2 Timothy 4:1, 2 Timothy 4:8, at a MUCH earlier date than the all-Israel rapture. The last shall be first and the first shall be last.

BobRyan said:

No text says that any future resurrection is 'all Jews'
No text ever shows someone resurrected flying up in the air then floating softly back down to earth.

Christ takes all the saints to heaven for 1000 years at the 2nd coming. -- "I will come again" John 14.

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The Father's House, in Jn 14, will be the New Jerusalem, the Highest calling any Jew will ever have. The NJ is not Heaven. It comes down out of Heaven and attaches to the New Earth. Permanently, as far as we know. Every tribe has it's own gate. There is no Gentile gate.

The only people with a Hope of the Highest Heaven, where Christ sits at the right hand of God, are today's Gentiles, whose Hope, Calling, and Future are found ONLY in Paul's 7 post-Acts epistles. The other 59, 100% Israel books, contain nothing TO us or ABOUT us Gentiles living today. That includes the Gospels and Paul's Acts epistles. NOTHING from those 59 Jewish books can be merged into what is out ONLY truth for today, as found only in Paul's last 7 books.

Nothing EVER taught to or given to Israel, except Christ, is EVER said to be taught to or given to us Gentiles today. Also, no Israelite is ever said to have a hope of going to Heaven - None, Zero, Zilch, Nada. When the Bible is silent, we MUST also be silent.

BobRyan said:

There is no example of Christ on Earth today building the New Jerusalem.

In John 14 "I GO to prepare a place for you" -- so that is heaven where the New Jerusalem is today.

There is no point in everyone being in the sky "Matthew 24" or "flying up in the clouds" 1 Thess 4 at the second coming and resurrection... if the whole point is to have the New Jerusalem on Earth at that point.

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Rev 21:1-2
1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
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The NJ comes down out of the New created starry Heavens AFTER there is a New Heaven and New Earth. If the NJ had been built before, it would have been burned up. Maybe Christ, the creator, could have built it by simply speaking one Word.

There are 2 Heavens. One is the UNcreated Heavenly Places, The Heaven of Heavens (Deuteronomy 10:14, 1 Kings 8:27), Far above ALL starry Heavens (Ephesians 4:10), God's abode, GLORY, where Christ sits at the right hand of God (Ephesians 1:20), and is the place where we Gentiles that have the eyes of understanding to see the Hope of our Calling (Ephesians 1:17-18), only found in Paul's 7 post-Acts books, will spend eternity (Ephesians 2:6)

The other Heaven(s) are the created starry Heavens. This is where the NJ will come down out of and where the all-Israel occupants of the NJ will have freedom to move around in. The NJ is where the 12 will live, along with every elite Israelite in history, like Abraham, Moses, the remnants, and millions of others. Each tribe has their own Gate in the NJ. There is no Gentile gate.

BobRyan said:

Christ takes all the saints to heaven for 1000 years at the 2nd coming. -- "I will come again" John 14.



the 1000 years are literal -

But it is not where Christ reigns on Earth because Revelation 19 says all the wicked are killed when Christ comes again (second coming) - and John 14 says that when He comes again he takes the saints back with Him - back to heaven.
(Jesus went to heaven Acts 1 and comes back from heaven -- Phil 3:20
20 For our citizenship is in heaven, from which also we eagerly wait for a Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ;NASB)

They are there for 1000 years that starts with the "First resurrection" Rev 20:5 which is when the "Dead in Christ rise first" 1 Thess 4:16

And all the wicked are slain at Christ's coming 2 Thess 1:7-8 Rev 19:17-18

"Elephant in living room" of all other options on this topic -- is this.
Nothing left here but a desolate Earth - as the OT prophets predicted.

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DESOLATE Earth

Rev 20:4-5 shows the ”First Resurrection” Which is the resurrection of the saints the “dead in Christ” as Paul says in 1Thess 4 at our “Gathering together to Him” 2Thess 2:1-4 a the “Coming of the Lord” (Both 2Thess 2 and 1Thess 4 point that out).

Rev 19 says that the living wicked are destroyed by fire and by the sword that comes from Christ “at the coming of the Lord” – it says “The rest were killed by the sword” that comes from Christ. Vs 21

At that time Christ raptures the church (in the singular event He promised in John 14) and we are taken to heaven both the living AND the dead (raised at the First Resurrection).

So what about the earth? That leaves “no one” here – so does the Bible describe earth as left without humans, dead corpses from one end of earth to another?
No one left to bury the dead? Cities all destroyed? Really?

Millennium – a time without a single human remaining alive. Not a glorious place to live - but a place where birds feeding on rotting corpses of mankind. And yet it is temporary – only lasting for 1000 years.

This feast of the birds we see described again in Rev 19 where the lamb destroys certain of mankind

Ez 32:4-8
4 ""I will leave you on the land; I will cast you on the open field. And I will cause all the birds of the heavens to dwell on you, And I will satisfy the beasts of the whole earth with you.
5 ""I will lay your flesh on the mountains And fill the valleys with your refuse.
6 ""I will also make the land drink the discharge of your blood As far as the mountains, And the ravines will be full of you.
7 ""And when I extinguish you, I will cover the heavens and darken their stars; I will cover the sun with a cloud And the moon will not give its light.
8 ""All the shining lights in the heavens I will darken over you And will set darkness on your land,'' Declares the Lord GOD.

Jer 4:23
I looked on the earth, and behold, it was formless and void; And to the heavens, and they had no light.
24 I looked on the mountains, and behold, they were quaking, And all the hills moved to and fro.
25 I looked, and behold, there was no man, And all the birds of the heavens had fled.

26 I looked, and behold, the fruitful land was a wilderness, And all its cities were pulled down Before the LORD, before His fierce anger.

Jer 25:33
""Those slain by the LORD on that day will be from one end of the earth to the other. They will not be lamented, gathered or buried; they will be like dung on the face of the ground.

Zeph 1:18

Neither their silver nor their gold Will be able to deliver them On the day of the LORD'S wrath; And all the earth will be devoured In the fire of His jealousy, For He will make a complete end, Indeed a terrifying one, Of all the inhabitants of the earth.

Isaiah 24
1 Behold, the LORD lays the earth waste, devastates it, distorts its surface and scatters its inhabitants.
2 And the people will be like the priest, the servant like his master, the maid like her mistress, the buyer like the seller, the lender like the borrower, the creditor like the debtor.
3 The earth will be completely laid waste and completely despoiled,

It is obviously a World Wide Calamity – World Wide catastrophe


Isaiah 24
17 Terror and pit and snare Confront you, O inhabitant of the earth.
18 Then it will be that he who flees the report of disaster will fall into the pit, And he who climbs out of the pit will be caught in the snare; For the windows above are opened, and the foundations of the earth shake.
19 The earth is broken asunder, The earth is split through, The earth is shaken violently.
20 The earth reels to and fro like a drunkard And it totters like a shack, For its transgression is heavy upon it, And it will fall, never to rise again.

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The text (Revelation 20:4-5) does not say that, 'all the saints', reign with Christ for a thousand years.

Revelation 20
Then I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was given to them. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony of Jesus and because of the word of God, and those who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received the mark on their forehead and on their hand; and they came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.