Why didn't Jesus quote the rest of Isaiah 61 about himself?

claninja · Dec 10, 2018

Daniel Martinovich said:
Can the government just forgive him because his good deeds WAAAAY outweigh his one bad deed? Heck no it can't and everyone knows why. Because it would encourage speeding in others. If there is no punishment for lawlessness or reward for lawful behavior then there is by default no law. Therefore, for the sake of the public's sense of justice, justice must be served. It was, on Christ.

The punishments and curses for disobeying the Law of Moses are found in Deuteronomy 28:15-68. I'm betting we can agree that these punishments/curses are specifically for the nation of Israel, and not for those outside of Israel. Thankfully, that Old covenant law has been laid to rest and we are free from its curses

Even Paul states those who sin UNDER the law are judged by the Law. Interestingly enough, Paul states that those who sin apart from the law, simply perish.
Romans 2:12 All who sin apart from the Law will also perish apart from the Law, and all who sin under the Law will be judged by the Law.

For those, under the Law, who disobeyed the Law, they were cursed. And thus Christ freed those under the Law from the curse, IN ORDER that the blessings of Abraham could go to the gentiles.
Galatians 3:13-14 Christ redeemed us from the curse of the Law by becoming a curse for us. For it is written: “Cursed is everyone who is hung on a tree.”f He redeemed us in order that the blessing promised to Abraham would come to the Gentiles in Christ Jesus, so that by faith we might receive the promise of the Spirit.

Ultimately, we find that the curses of the Law of Moses were poured out on Israel in 70AD because ironically they relied on the law of moses for righteousness, but still couldn't follow it: they rejected/didn't listen to the prophet (Jesus) that God raised up for them.

Deuteronomy 18:18-19 I will raise up for them a prophet like you from among their brothers. I will put My words in his mouth, and he will tell them everything I command him. And I will hold accountable anyone who does not listen to My words that that prophet speaks in My name.

Luke 19:44 They will level you to the ground—you and the children within your walls. They will not leave one stone on another, because you did not recognize the time of your visitation from God.”

Daniel Martinovich said:
I'm guessing you don't believe in that prison called hell either?

I definitely don't, I lean towards permanent and eternal death as a punishment for those who don't believe, although it would be amazing if God did save everyone (universalism). But that is a conversation probably for another thread.

Daniel Martinovich · Dec 10, 2018

claninja said:
The punishments and curses for disobeying the Law of Moses are found in Deuteronomy 28:15-68. I'm betting we can agree that these punishments/curses are specifically for the nation of Israel, and not for those outside of Israel. Thankfully, that Old covenant law has been laid to rest and we are free from its curses

Even Paul states those who sin UNDER the law are judged by the Law. Interestingly enough, Paul states that those who sin apart from the law, simply perish.
Romans 2:12 All who sin apart from the Law will also perish apart from the Law, and all who sin under the Law will be judged by the Law.

For those, under the Law, who disobeyed the Law, they were cursed. And thus Christ freed those under the Law from the curse, IN ORDER that the blessings of Abraham could go to the gentiles.
Galatians 3:13-14 Christ redeemed us from the curse of the Law by becoming a curse for us. For it is written: “Cursed is everyone who is hung on a tree.”f He redeemed us in order that the blessing promised to Abraham would come to the Gentiles in Christ Jesus, so that by faith we might receive the promise of the Spirit.

Ultimately, we find that the curses of the Law of Moses were poured out on Israel in 70AD because ironically they relied on the law of moses for righteousness, but still couldn't follow it: they rejected/didn't listen to the prophet (Jesus) that God raised up for them.

Deuteronomy 18:18-19 I will raise up for them a prophet like you from among their brothers. I will put My words in his mouth, and he will tell them everything I command him. And I will hold accountable anyone who does not listen to My words that that prophet speaks in My name.

Luke 19:44 They will level you to the ground—you and the children within your walls. They will not leave one stone on another, because you did not recognize the time of your visitation from God.”

I definitely don't, I lean towards permanent and eternal death as a punishment for those who don't believe, although it would be amazing if God did save everyone (universalism). But that is a conversation probably for another thread.

Your don't think when Paul is using the word "law." He is differentiating at times between the rites and rituals, days, feast etc etc of the Mosaic law...... and law as in right and wrong, in general. Or you could call it the laws of nature and natures God?

mkgal1 · Dec 10, 2018

Daniel Martinovich said:
I think your looking at all this as either or. That's a lack of light on your part. All of the above is applicable. If you can't reconcile it all together in your mind, or heart. Then you just need more light. God is Agape. The word means good will. God's will is good. Rather than his will being supremely committed to his own welfare and his interests. The way sinners wills are supremely committed to their own self interest. His will is committed to the good of the universe, his whole creation. And its pure. He is not doing it for what he can get out of it. He is doing it because it is right, and good.

He therefore does what is best, according to his infinite wisdom to bring his creation into that place that is good for all. So he feels and is all those things you say. Unfortunately it means, as you say, allowing nature to run its course at times. Sometimes though it also means killing a few folks. It certainly means setting up and maintaining a prison system to those who would overthrow the peace of heaven and cannot be reconciled.

Now you're just getting personal.

I agree that God is agape - and in Him there is no darkness. I also agree with you on His will (and also believe that He will achieve what He's set out to do - and has given us a good "track record" to look back on as far as doing what He's said He'll do).

Daniel Martinovich · Dec 10, 2018

mkgal1 said:
Now you're just getting personal.

I assume most of us don't want to be loved with sweet little lies. But with grace and truth.

claninja · Dec 10, 2018

Daniel Martinovich said:
Your don't think when Paul is using the word "law." He is differentiating at times between the rites and rituals, days, feast etc etc of the Mosaic law...... and law as in right and wrong, in general. Or you could call it the laws of nature and natures God?

If you can provide scripture where Paul is differentiating between the ceremonial, civil, and moral parts of Law of moses that would help. Otherwise, Why would I assume Paul is talking about anything else other then the Law of Moses as a whole?

claninja · Dec 10, 2018

Daniel Martinovich said:
I assume most of us don't want to be loved with sweet little lies. But with grace and truth.

I have to agree with mkgal1. "lack of light on your part". That's a little inappropriate.

Daniel Martinovich · Dec 10, 2018

claninja said:
I have to agree with mkgal1. "lack of light on your part". That's a little inappropriate.

Wasn't meant as a put down, or to denigrate him\her. We all lack light. I think mkgal1 probably knows that he\she is seeing through a glass darkly on this issue and would like more clarity. Gods anger at sin and its effects, all the death and destruction is abundantly written about. As well as his anger at certain individuals for their crimes that they refuse to turn from. Because certain things anger him does not change his his fundamental motive. The aim of his will. Which is Agape. He's in it for the good of mankind. mkgal1 knows that......I could go into this really deep. But its not the time or place.

Oops. Edited name change.

Daniel Martinovich · Dec 10, 2018

claninja said:
If you can provide scripture where Paul is differentiating between the ceremonial, civil, and moral parts of Law of moses that would help. Otherwise, Why would I assume Paul is talking about anything else other then the Law of Moses as a whole?

Here is a good place. What is the law these gentiles have that is not the Mosiac law.
Romans 2:7 To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life: 8 But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath, 9 Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile; 10 But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile: 11 For there is no respect of persons with God. 12 For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law; 13 (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified. 14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves: 15 Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another

16 In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel. 17 Behold, thou art called a Jew, and restest in the law, and makest thy boast of God, 18 And knowest his will, and approvest the things that are more excellent, being instructed out of the law; 19 And art confident that thou thyself art a guide of the blind, a light of them which are in darkness, 20 An instructor of the foolish, a teacher of babes, which hast the form of knowledge and of the truth in the law. 21 Thou therefore which teachest another, teachest thou not thyself? thou that preachest a man should not steal, dost thou steal? 22 Thou that sayest a man should not commit adultery, dost thou commit adultery? thou that abhorrest idols, dost thou commit sacrilege? 23 Thou that makest thy boast of the law, through breaking the law dishonourest thou God? 24 For the name of God is blasphemed among the Gentiles through you, as it is written. 25 For circumcision verily profiteth, if thou keep the law: but if thou be a breaker of the law, thy circumcision is made uncircumcision. 26 Therefore if the uncircumcision keep the righteousness of the law, shall not his uncircumcision be counted for circumcision? 27 And shall not uncircumcision which is by nature, if it fulfil the law, judge thee, who by the letter and circumcision dost transgress the law? 28 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh: 29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.
Or what does John mean because he surely does not mean lawlessness in regard to keeping the rites and the rituals of the Mosaic law.
1st John 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.
The problem with many of the keepers of the rites and rituals of the Mosaic law is that they were missing the point of it. If understood correctly it was meant to help them do the right thing. Instead they did the wrong thing but kept the rites and rituals thinking that would justify them. Like circumcision. Moses and the prophets taught them that the meaning of circumcision was to not walk in the flesh. But the lawless walked in the flesh and thought their literal circumcision justified them. Why did God give them rites and rituals that were clearly symbolic for right and wrong? (And prophetic among other things.) Because of the lawless among them, which were the majority. He needed a whole nation, both the believers and the un-beleivers in it to establish his D Day beach head, for his long planned invasion of planet earth by his invisible kingdom.

mkgal1 · Dec 10, 2018

Daniel Martinovich said:
I assume most of us don't want to be loved with sweet little lies. But with grace and truth.

But you're setting this up as if YOU are the holder of truth (and I am not). Isn't that rather arrogant on your part?

Daniel Martinovich said:
Wasn't meant as a put down, or to denigrate him\her. We all lack light.

Then there's no reason to set me apart....right?

I think your looking at all this as either or.

I actually believe YOU are looking at this in a binary way (people are either good or evil). I don't see things that way.

Daniel Martinovich · Dec 10, 2018

mkgal1 said:
But you're setting this up as if YOU are the holder of truth (and I am not). Isn't that rather arrogant on your part?
Then there's no reason to set me apart....right?

Yes I am on this issue. But to the bigger point. Are you saying all people's knowledge is equal, or should be looked at as equal? No matter what is true or not? Our argument is about what the Bible teaches. Maybe yours is not but my argument is. Therefore I am going to argue that since the Bible is the (Exclusive with a capitol E) Word of God. Then I am arguing your lacking light based on what it says. I'm not arguing your lacking light based on what you believe to be truth. That is subjective. We are talking objective here. The Bible is objective of you and me.

mkgal1 said:
I actually believe YOU are looking at this in a binary way (people are either good or evil). I don't see things that way.

Your using these descriptive terms of the nature of God as all encompassing of him. As the ultimate scriptural revelation of him that all other knowledge must be subjugated to.

mkgal1 said:
He knows there is a bigger arc to the story: one that always reveals a God who is compassionate, nonviolent, and inclusive of outsiders.

The rest of the story though is in the quote I already posted: Revelation 2:20 Notwithstanding I have a few things against thee, because thou sufferest that woman Jezebel, which calleth herself a prophetess, to teach and to seduce my servants to commit fornication, and to eat things sacrificed unto idols.21 And I gave her space to repent of her fornication; and she repented not.22 Behold, I will cast her into a bed, and them that commit adultery with her into great tribulation, except they repent of their deeds. 23 And I will kill her children with death; and all the churches shall know that I am he which searcheth the reins and hearts: and I will give unto every one of you according to your works.
Those words are not "non violent." They are not "inclusive" and they are in red. Also surely the polar opposite of what many sexually immoral Americans consider compassionate these days. In fact they would call those words hate. Yet these words if your going to take the whole council of scripture to heart, meld perfectly into the words you want to use to describe the nature of God with. But if one does not do that, take the whole council of scripture to heart. Does not let God take some decades to raise you and discipline you as his own child. Then these words are quite incompatible and binary with the ones your using.

Nancy Shannon · Dec 10, 2018

mkgal1 said:
I agree with Jeremy Myers, who wrote:

"I try to follow the teachings and example of Jesus as best as I can. I fail in many areas all the time, but that is where grace enters the scene.

Anyway, when it comes to presenting God as non-violent, Jesus not only shows by teaching and example that God is non-violent (cf. Luke 6:27-30; 9:54-56; 23:34), but when Jesus declared the purpose of His ministry, He cherry-picked a key Old Testament passage to show that He was not going to be violent at all.

The text I am referring to is Luke 4:16-30. In this text, Jesus lays out His mission statement (Luke 4:18-19), which shows that He is only going to restore, heal, forgive, deliver, and set free. As part of His teaching, Jesus used an illustration from the Old Testament about how God sent Elijah the Prophet to a Gentile woman and a leprous Syrian general.

As a result of this sermon, those who listened to Jesus that day tried to kill Him (Luke 4:28-29). Why did they try to kill Jesus?

Because Jesus cherry-picked the Old Testament to present God as non-violent. His audience believed that God was violent, and this violence is then demonstrated in their attempt to kill Jesus (After all, you become like the god you worship)."
- Why I Might Cherry-Pick Verses from the Bible

They sought to kill Jesus because He claimed to be God so they thought He was a blasphomer, (John 20:33) and the Pharisees were afraid of His believers uprising against them and their criticisms( Luke 22:2) and the people saw His miracles and BELIEVED in Him! (John 7:32-33)

claninja · Dec 11, 2018

Daniel Martinovich said:
Wasn't meant as a put down, or to denigrate him\her. We all lack light.

Maybe so, but the way you put it came off kind of rude. Maybe before pointing out some else's flaws, start with your own, as even you stated after the fact, "we all lack light".

Daniel Martinovich said:
Here is a good place. What is the law these gentiles have that is not the Mosiac law.
Romans 2:7 To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life: 8 But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath, 9 Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile; 10 But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile: 11 For there is no respect of persons with God. 12 For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law; 13 (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified. 14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves: 15 Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another 16 In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel.

I think we can agree that Paul is talking about "loving your neighbor as yourself" in this part. How would a gentile know how to ceremonially worship God through the temple if he/she has no ceremonial law? How would a gentile know about the circumcision, without knowing the law of God? Yet, gentiles can know to do right by their neighbors, thus they can they fulfill "love thy neighbor as thyself" without having the Law of Moses because of their consciences.
Romans 2:14-16 Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the Law, do by nature what the Law requires, they are a law to themselves, even though they do not have the Law, since they show that the work of the Law is written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts either accusing or defending them. This will come to pass on that day when God will judge men’s secrets through Christ Jesus, as proclaimed by my gospel.

Daniel Martinovich said:
Behold, thou art called a Jew, and restest in the law, and makest thy boast of God, 18 And knowest his will, and approvest the things that are more excellent, being instructed out of the law; 19 And art confident that thou thyself art a guide of the blind, a light of them which are in darkness, 20 An instructor of the foolish, a teacher of babes, which hast the form of knowledge and of the truth in the law. 21 Thou therefore which teachest another, teachest thou not thyself? thou that preachest a man should not steal, dost thou steal? 22 Thou that sayest a man should not commit adultery, dost thou commit adultery? thou that abhorrest idols, dost thou commit sacrilege? 23 Thou that makest thy boast of the law, through breaking the law dishonourest thou God? 24 For the name of God is blasphemed among the Gentiles through you, as it is written. 25 For circumcision verily profiteth, if thou keep the law: but if thou be a breaker of the law, thy circumcision is made uncircumcision. 26 Therefore if the uncircumcision keep the righteousness of the law, shall not his uncircumcision be counted for circumcision? 27 And shall not uncircumcision which is by nature, if it fulfil the law, judge thee, who by the letter and circumcision dost transgress the law? 28 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh: 29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

Paul get's into more the Law of God, not just, "love thy neighbor" (don't steal, don't commit adultery), but also "love God" (no idols), and circumcision.

Circumcision only has value if one is able to keep the law, but since everyone will break the law at some point, circumcision becomes uncircumcision, especially for those who judge others by the law.
Romans 2:25 Circumcision has value if you observe the Law, but if you break the Law, your circumcision has become uncircumcision.

What is the Law, from the Law and the prophets, is it not the 1st 5 books of the Bible?
Romans 3:21 But now, apart from the Law, the righteousness of God has been revealed, as attested by the Law and the Prophets.

Daniel Martinovich said:
Or what does John mean because he surely does not mean lawlessness in regard to keeping the rites and the rituals of the Mosaic law.
1st John 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

Depends right? If a Jew, who is under the Law of moses, neglects the feasts or the Sabbath, or eats pork/shell fish, that is a sin, a transgression of the law and is so judged by the law.

Now, a gentile who is not under the law, nor has ever heard of the law, eats pork or works on the Sabbath, is that a sin?
Romans 4:15 because the Law brings wrath. And where there is no law, there is no transgression.

However, even before the Law, there was still sin.
Romans 5:13 For sin was in the world before the Law was given; but sin is not taken into account when there is no law.

However, prior to the giving of the Law, were people judged for working on the Sabbath? how about for eating shell fish? how about for incorrect temple worship? No, but they were judged for the moral law: sexual sins, idolatry, murder, stealing....

Daniel Martinovich said:
The problem with many of the keepers of the rites and rituals of the Mosaic law is that they were missing the point of it. If understood correctly it was meant to help them do the right thing. Instead they did the wrong thing but kept the rites and rituals thinking that would justify them. Like circumcision. Moses and the prophets taught them that the meaning of circumcision was to not walk in the flesh. But the lawless walked in the flesh and thought their literal circumcision justified them.

I absolutely agree

mkgal1 · Dec 11, 2018

Nancy Shannon said:
They sought to kill Jesus because He claimed to be God so they thought He was a blasphomer, (John 20:33) and the Pharisees were afraid of His believers uprising against them and their criticisms( Luke 22:2) and the people saw His miracles and BELIEVED in Him! (John 7:32-33)

But why do you think the Pharisees *didn't* believe He was the Messiah (they were experts on the Law - which included all the prophecies - after all)?

To me, this is a key part of it (He was a threat to their religious system):

“What can we do?” they asked. “This man is doing many miraculous signs. If we let Him keep on doing this, everyone will believe in Him. Then the Romans will come. They will take away our temple and our nation.”- John 11:47b-48

mkgal1 · Dec 11, 2018

Daniel Martinovich said:
Are you saying all people's knowledge is equal, or should be looked at as equal? No matter what is true or not? Our argument is about what the Bible teaches. Maybe yours is not but my argument is.

Nope, I'm not saying all people's knowledge is equal. I'm also not saying that truth doesn't matter.

What I AM saying is that when it comes down to the "why" of the incarnation - since we are NOT God (and He hasn't directly revealed it) - all we have are *theories*. There are many interpretations *from the Bible* - so the idea that only ONE theory is "from the Bible" (leaving others as untrue and false) is erroneous.

LittleLambofJesus · Dec 11, 2018

mkgal1 said: ↑
But you're setting this up as if YOU are the holder of truth (and I am not). Isn't that rather arrogant on your part?
Then there's no reason to set me apart....right?

Daniel Martinovich said:
Yes I am on this issue. But to the bigger point. Are you saying all people's knowledge is equal, or should be looked at as equal? No matter what is true or not? Our argument is about what the Bible teaches. .

Why did the 1st century Jews lack knowledge?
Because of the corrupt Rulers leading them.

Hosea 4:6
My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge.
Because you have rejected knowledge, I also will reject you from being priest for Me;
Because you have forgotten the law of your God, I also will forget your children.
Malachi 2:7
“For the lips of a priest should keep knowledge,
And people should seek the law from his mouth;
For he is the messenger of the LORD of hosts.

Oddly, the word knowledge<1108> is used in only 2 verses of the Gospels, my bro Luke.

One concerning the common Jew:

Luke 1:77
To give knowledge of salvation to His people By the remission of their sins,

And once concerning the corrupt murderous Judean rulers:

Luke 11:52:
“Woe to you lawyers! For you have taken away the key of the knowledge.
You do not enter in yourselves, and those who are entering in you hinder.”

Matthew 3:7
But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees coming to his baptism, he said to them, “Brood of vipers!
Who warned you to flee from the being about wrath to come?

"DAYS OF VENGEANCE" Isaiah 61:2 and Luke 21:22 Revelation

Luke 21:22 [Isaiah 61:2]
That days of vengeance these are, of the to be fulfilled all the having been written

The Destruction of Jerusalem - George Peter Holford, 1805AD

The day on which Titus encompassed Jerusalem, was the feast of the Passover.....
the city was at this time crowded with Jewish strangers, and foreigners from all parts, so that the whole nation may be considered as having been shut up in one prison, preparatory to the execution of the Divine vengeance........

Acts 23:14
And they came to the chief priests and the elders, and said,
"We have bound ourselves under a great curse, to taste nothing until we have killed Paul."

What goes around, comes around..............

For five days after the destruction of the Temple,
the priests who had escaped, sat, pining with hunger, on the top of one of its broken walls; at length, they came down, and humbly asked the pardon of Titus, which, however, he refused to grant them, saying, that,
"as the Temple, for the sake of which he would have spared them, was destroyed,
it was but fit that its priests should parish also:" -whereupon he commanded that they should be put to death.

Jeremiah 32:32
‘because of all the evil of the children of Israel and the children of Judah, which they have done to provoke Me to anger—
they, their kings, their princes, their priests, their prophets, the men of Judah, and the inhabitants of Jerusalem.

.

mkgal1 · Dec 11, 2018

Daniel Martinovich said:
The rest of the story though is in the quote I already posted: Revelation 2:20 Notwithstanding I have a few things against thee, because thou sufferest that woman Jezebel, which calleth herself a prophetess, to teach and to seduce my servants to commit fornication, and to eat things sacrificed unto idols.21 And I gave her space to repent of her fornication; and she repented not.22 Behold, I will cast her into a bed, and them that commit adultery with her into great tribulation, except they repent of their deeds. 23 And I will kill her children with death; and all the churches shall know that I am he which searcheth the reins and hearts: and I will give unto every one of you according to your works.
Those words are not "non violent." They are not "inclusive" and they are in red. Also surely the polar opposite of what many sexually immoral Americans consider compassionate these days. In fact they would call those words hate. Yet these words if your going to take the whole council of scripture to heart, meld perfectly into the words you want to use to describe the nature of God with. But if one does not do that, take the whole council of scripture to heart. Does not let God take some decades to raise you and discipline you as his own child. Then these words are quite incompatible and binary with the ones your using.

God is love - that's the nature that *I*, personally, see as overriding in Scripture. If something doesn't fit in that framework - then it can't be true of God.

In Matthew 23:37, we see that God desires to protect Jerusalem, but they "won't let Him":

Jesus Grieves over Jerusalem
37 “O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the city that kills the prophets and stones God’s messengers! How often I have wanted to gather your children together as a hen protects her chicks beneath her wings, but you wouldn’t let me.

As a result, death and destruction will come upon Jerusalem. The text is clear that God is trying to deliver and protect His people from the destruction, but they [not all] would not listen to His warnings and were not willing to come to Him. And so, death would come, not from God, but from the armies that would sweep in and leave not one stone standing upon another.

Isaiah 35:4

Say to those who are of a fearful heart, “Be strong, fear not! Behold, your God will come with vengeance, with the recompense of God. He will come and save you.”

In Isaiah 35:4, the coming of the Lord is both in vengeance (wrath) and in salvation (redemption). What this means is that both wrath and salvation would come to Israel at the same time, meaning through the same event.

mkgal1 · Dec 11, 2018

The Destruction of Jerusalem - George Peter Holford, 1805AD

The day on which Titus encompassed Jerusalem, was the feast of the Passover.....
the city was at this time crowded with Jewish strangers, and foreigners from all parts, so that the whole nation may be considered as having been shut up in one prison, preparatory to the execution of the Divine vengeance........

I guess that's the key phrase (*Divine* vengeance). His plan doesn't include destruction just for the sake of destroying - there is a simultaneous building/restoration happening at the same time (is how I see it).

LittleLambofJesus · Dec 11, 2018

This site has a plethora of articles on Josephus and that destruction......

https://www.preteristarchive.com/modern-preterism-study-archive/

https://www.preteristarchive.com/timeline_military/

Josephus: Visual Timeline of the Roman-Jewish War

Numerous signs, prodigies, and portents were seen in the land of Judaea at the outset of the rebellion. Included in those recorded by Josephus, armed hosts and chariots in the clouds were seen flying over all the land of Judaea; a light at night makes the temple appear as though it were on fire; Halley’s Comet, in the appearance of a sword, flies over the region. NASA’s Jet Propulsion Laboratory says that the closest approach of the comet that year was in March, immediately prior to the revolt.

Christians seem to have associated this period with the warnings and admonitions of Jesus Christ in Matthew 24 (See MAY 2, 66 – COMING OF CHRIST below). Many had already left after the martyrdom of James in 62....................

.

mkgal1 · Dec 11, 2018

LittleLambofJesus said:
Yes.........I put the link up there, but it is kind of small.

This site however has a plethora of articles on Josephus and that destruction......

https://www.preteristarchive.com/modern-preterism-study-archive/

https://www.preteristarchive.com/timeline_military/

.

I was a bit late - but I then saw it

LittleLambofJesus · Dec 11, 2018

mkgal1 said:
I was a bit late - but I then saw it

No worries.
We are aware of what happened after he folded up the scroll of Isaiah.
He spoke this to them:

23 Jesus said to them, “Surely you will quote this proverb to Me: ‘Physician, heal yourself! Do here in Your hometown what we have heard that You did in Capernaum.’”
24 Then He added, “Truly I tell you, no prophet is accepted in his hometown. 25 But I tell you truthfully that there were many widows in Israel in the time of Elijah, when the sky was shut for three and a half years and great famine swept over all the land. 26 Yet Elijah was not sent to any of them, but to the widow of Zarephath in Sidon. 27 And there were many lepersg in Israel in the time of Elisha the prophet. Yet not one of them was cleansed—only Naaman the Syrian.”

Then of course this classic scene:

28 On hearing this, all the people in the synagogue were enraged<2372>. 29 They got up, drove Him out of the town, and led Him to the brow of the hill on which the town was built, in order to throw Him over the cliff.

The Greek word #2372 in vs 28 is used in only that 1 verse of the Gospels.

It is used in 10 verses of Revelation. Again tying Luke and Revelation together [mostly concerning 1st century Jerusalem/Babylon].

2372. thumos from 2380;
passion (as if breathing hard):--fierceness, indignation, wrath. Compare 5590.
G2372 θυμός (thymos), occurs 18 times in 18 verses
Genesis 1:1 (NKJV)

1st time used.

Revelation 12:12
“Therefore rejoice, O heavens, and you who dwell in them!
Woe to the inhabitants of the land and the sea!
For the devil has come down to you, having great fury<2372>, because he knows that he has a short time.”

John 8:44
“Ye are of your father the devil, and the desires of your father you want to do...

Luke 10:18
And He said to them, “I saw Satan fall like lightning from the heaven.

Revelation 16:1
Then I heard a loud Voice from the temple saying to the seven Messengers,
“Go! and pour out! the bowls[fn] of the fury<2372> of God on the land[Israel/Judea?].”

Revelation 14:8
And another angel followed, saying, “Babylon[fn] is fallen, is fallen, that great City,
because she has made all nations drink of the wine of the wrath<2372> of her fornication.”

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Why didn't Jesus quote the rest of Isaiah 61 about himself?

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His perfect way sets me free. 2 Samuel 22:33

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His perfect way sets me free. 2 Samuel 22:33

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His perfect way sets me free. 2 Samuel 22:33

His perfect way sets me free. 2 Samuel 22:33

Hebrews 2:14.... Pesky Devil, git!

His perfect way sets me free. 2 Samuel 22:33

His perfect way sets me free. 2 Samuel 22:33

Hebrews 2:14.... Pesky Devil, git!

His perfect way sets me free. 2 Samuel 22:33

Hebrews 2:14.... Pesky Devil, git!

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