One of the most controversial issues, is the DAY OF WORSHIP

BobRyan said:

Paul points out the the ceremonial law of circumcision ends while the "Commandments of God" continue - in 1 Cor 7:19

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Paul mentions many of the moral laws of Sinai when speaking of not living in the flesh but the Spirit. Yet we have no mention of the Sabbath as Israel was to have kept it. Strange isn’t it.

BobRyan said:

Your opposition to the Bible fact in Romans 8 that it is only the lost who "do NOT submit to the LAW of God neither indeed CAN they" Romans 8:4-11.

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Not opposition when you include verses Romans 8:1-3 and also the remainder of the chapter.

When Paul went to synagogues on the Sabbath was it to preach law keeping or to prove Christ from the Scriptures?

When Jesus preached the Law in Matthew chapters 5-7 what was His main focus for those who want to enter the Kingdom of God?

Did not James tell us that those who want to keep the Law must keep it all?

Come down from Mt Sinai brother and join the brethren on Mt Zion.

I think this thread can be best answered by the Apostle when he wrote:

“Owe no one anything, except to love each other, for the one who loves another has fulfilled the law. For the commandments, "You shall not commit adultery, You shall not murder, You shall not steal, You shall not covet," and any other commandment, are summed up in this word: "You shall love your neighbor as yourself." Love does no wrong to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

Besides this you know the time, that the hour has come for you to wake from sleep. For salvation is nearer to us now than when we first believed. The night is far gone; the day is at hand. So then let us cast off the works of darkness and put on the armor of light. Let us walk properly as in the daytime, not in orgies and drunkenness, not in sexual immorality and sensuality, not in quarreling and jealousy. But put on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make no provision for the flesh, to gratify its desires.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭13:8-14‬ ‭ESV‬‬
Romans 13:8-14 Owe no one anything, except to love each other, for the one who loves another has fulfilled the law. For the commandments, "You shall not commit adultery, You shall not murder, You shall not steal, Yo | English Standard Version (ESV) | Download The Bible App Now

Your opposition to the Bible fact in Romans 8 that it is only the lost who "do NOT submit to the LAW of God neither indeed CAN they" Romans 8:4-11.

redleghunter said:

This is a total fail of context.

1Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus.a 2For in Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit of life has set youb free from the law of sin and death. 3For what the Law was powerless to do in that it was weakened by the flesh, God did by sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful man, as an offering for sin. He thus condemned sin in the flesh, 4so that the righteous standard of the Law might be fulfilled in us, who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. (NASB)

What the Law failed to do in the flesh Christ conquered with His death and resurrection. Keep reading.

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Keep reading and find out that it is only the lost who "do not submit to the Law of God neither indeed CAN they" Rom 8

4 so that the requirement of the Law might be fulfilled in us, who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. 5 For those who are according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who are according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit. 6 For the mind set on the flesh is death, but the mind set on the Spirit is life and peace, 7 because the mind set on the flesh is hostile toward God; for it does not subject itself to the law of God, for it is not even able to do so, 8 and those who are in the flesh cannot please God.

in each case your "solution" is not to deal with the point raised in the text at all (Rom 8:6-7) - and read something else instead.

redleghunter said:

Not opposition when you include verses Romans 8:1-3 and also the remainder of the chapter.

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I keep pointing you to Rom 8:6-7 details that your argument does not survive. you keep insisting that reading 1-3 and texts beyond vs 3 will make your case. So then vs 6-7 are in that section that you ask us to read... yet you continue to avoid them.

Why keep doing that as if it solves the problem where it appears your suggestion does not survive the details of vs 6 and 7 in Romans 8??

BobRyan said:

Keep reading and find out that it is only the lost who "do not submit to the Law of God neither indeed CAN they" Rom 8

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You never addressed why they can’t.

Or better why they can. Hint Jesus has everything to do with the answer.

redleghunter said:

You never addressed why they can’t.

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The lost do not submit to the Law of God and indeed can not -- because all mankind has a sinful nature.

By contrast the saints obey the Commandments of God as Romans 8 points out because they "walk according to the Spirit" not in rebellion against the Word of God - but in obedience to it.

1 John 5:2-3 "this IS the Love of God that we KEEP His Commandments"
Rev 14:12 "the saints KEEP the Commandments of God AND their faith in Jesus"

redleghunter said:

I think this thread can be best answered by the Apostle when he wrote:

“Owe no one anything, except to love each other, for the one who loves another has fulfilled the law. For the commandments, "You shall not commit adultery, You shall not murder, You shall not steal, You shall not covet," and any other commandment, are summed up in this word: "You shall love your neighbor as yourself." Love does no wrong to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

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Quotes from the TEN commandments... true after the cross in Romans 13 above and also true before the cross in Matthew 19 according to Christ.

It is the section of "the TEN" dealing not with man's duty to God but with man's duty to man. It is not Christ or Paul arguing "well then it is ok to take God's name in vain".

Owe nothing to any man (man's duty to man) is the context and the TEN Commandments serve to show what is required.

redleghunter said:

The exact quote is:
4And he was reasoning in the synagogue every Sabbath and trying to persuade Jews and Greeks.
Was he trying to persuade them or they needed to keep the Law?

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He was trying to persuade them that "what matters is KEEPING the commandments of God" 1 Cor 7:19
He was trying to persuade them to "Honor your father and mother" because "this is the first commandment WITH a promise" Eph 6:2 ...in that distinct unit of TEN.
He was trying to persuade them that "it is not the HEARERS of the LAW that are just before God but the DOERS of the LAW WILL be JUSTIFIED" Rom 2:13
He was trying to persuade them of the basics "Do we then make void the LAW of God by our faith? God forbid! In fact we ESTABLISH the LAW" Rom 3:31
He was trying to remind them that it is only the lost who "do NOT submit to the LAW of God neither indeed CAN they" Romans 8:4-11.


Your opposition to Rom 2:13
"it is not the HEARERS of the LAW that are just before God but the DOERS of the LAW WILL be JUSTIFIED" Rom 2:13

redleghunter said:

Yes and what does he say in Romans 3:20?
20Therefore no one will be justified in His sight by works of the Law. For the Law merely brings awareness of sin.

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Romans 3:20 uses the term "works of the Law" and not the term "doers of the Law" they are different. In Romans 3 the "Works of the Law" is in the context of "works without faith".

In any case your solution to Rom 2:13 is "not to look" and to read Rom 3:20 "instead" having not been informed by the context of Rom 2:13 for Romans 3.


Your opposition to "Do we then make void the LAW of God by our faith? God forbid! In fact we ESTABLISH the LAW" Rom 3:31

redleghunter said:

This after verses 1-30. Kind of thinking the context here is the Righteousness of God which is explained in the next two chapters. If you want to use this as a proof text then it includes circumcision.

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Paul points out the the ceremonial law of circumcision ends while the "Commandments of God" continue - in 1 Cor 7:19

1 Cor 7
18 Was any man called when he was already circumcised? He is not to become uncircumcised. Has anyone been called in uncircumcision? He is not to be circumcised. 19 Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but what matters is the keeping of the commandments of God. 20 Each man must remain in that condition in which he was called.

Your argument has been "what does not matter - is keeping the Commandments of God" and hence your suggestion does not survive "the details" in 1 Cor 7:19 where Paul points out the contrast between the ceremonial law (that does not matter after the cross) and the moral law of God (the Commandments of God) that does matter.

redleghunter said:

Paul mentions many of the moral laws of Sinai

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In Romans 7 he does as well -- pointing to "the Ten" just as he does in Eph 6:2 where the 5th commandment is "the first commandment with a promise" in that unit of TEN.

Yet we have no mention of the Sabbath

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We have no mention of "do not take God's name in vain" and the point means nothing as far as a Bible excuse to ignore that commandment... and we all know it.

How then does the "insert" of such a rule to oppose God's 4th commandment survive that detail?

redleghunter said:

The exact quote is:
4And he was reasoning in the synagogue every Sabbath and trying to persuade Jews and Greeks.
Was he trying to persuade them or they needed to keep the Law?

Click to expand...

He was trying to persuade them that "what matters is KEEPING the commandments of God" 1 Cor 7:19
He was trying to persuade them to "Honor your father and mother" because "this is the first commandment WITH a promise" Eph 6:2 ...in that distinct unit of TEN.
He was trying to persuade them that "it is not the HEARERS of the LAW that are just before God but the DOERS of the LAW WILL be JUSTIFIED" Rom 2:13
He was trying to persuade them of the basics "Do we then make void the LAW of God by our faith? God forbid! In fact we ESTABLISH the LAW" Rom 3:31
He was trying to remind them that it is only the lost who "do NOT submit to the LAW of God neither indeed CAN they" Romans 8:4-11.

klutedavid said:

Romans 7:6
But now we have been released from the Law, having died to that by which we were bound, so that we serve in newness of the Spirit and not in oldness of the letter.

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He was trying to persuade them to "Honor your father and mother" because "this is the first commandment WITH a promise" Eph 6:2 ...in that distinct unit of TEN - the unit that he is appealing to as having authority in the NT.

klutedavid said:

The oldness of the written law said, you shall honor the Sabbath day.

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That law also said
"Do not take God's name in vain"
"Honor your father and mother"

You are engaging in creative writing to single out only one of the TEN as if none of the others existed in the OT.

The law Paul quotes in Romans 7 is specifically - "do not covet".

You have "re-imagined" it for us as "honor the Sabbath day".

Was I simply "not supposed to notice"? Surely you have read my posts enough to know that --- that "not supposed to notice" rule would not be followed by me.

I will write Romans 3:20 over the top of this.

BobRyan said:

He was trying to persuade them that "what matters is KEEPING the commandments of God" 1 Cor 7:19
He was trying to persuade them to "Honor your father and mother" because "this is the first commandment WITH a promise" Eph 6:2 ...in that distinct unit of TEN.
He was trying to persuade them that "it is not the HEARERS of the LAW that are just before God but the DOERS of the LAW WILL be JUSTIFIED" Rom 2:13
He was trying to persuade them of the basics "Do we then make void the LAW of God by our faith? God forbid! In fact we ESTABLISH the LAW" Rom 3:31
He was trying to remind them that it is only the lost who "do NOT submit to the LAW of God neither indeed CAN they" Romans 8:4-11.




He was trying to persuade them to "Honor your father and mother" because "this is the first commandment WITH a promise" Eph 6:2 ...in that distinct unit of TEN - the unit that he is appealing to as having authority in the NT.



That law also said
"Do not take God's name in vain"
"Honor your father and mother"

You are engaging in creative writing to single out only one of the TEN as if none of the others existed in the OT.

The law Paul quotes in Romans 7 is specifically - "do not covet".

You have "re-imagined" it for us as "honor the Sabbath day".

Was I simply "not supposed to notice"? Surely you have read my posts enough to know that --- that "not supposed to notice" rule would not be followed by me.

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BobRyan said:

He was trying to persuade them that "what matters is KEEPING the commandments of God" 1 Cor 7:19
He was trying to persuade them to "Honor your father and mother" because "this is the first commandment WITH a promise" Eph 6:2 ...in that distinct unit of TEN.
He was trying to persuade them that "it is not the HEARERS of the LAW that are just before God but the DOERS of the LAW WILL be JUSTIFIED" Rom 2:13
He was trying to persuade them of the basics "Do we then make void the LAW of God by our faith? God forbid! In fact we ESTABLISH the LAW" Rom 3:31
He was trying to remind them that it is only the lost who "do NOT submit to the LAW of God neither indeed CAN they" Romans 8:4-11.




He was trying to persuade them to "Honor your father and mother" because "this is the first commandment WITH a promise" Eph 6:2 ...in that distinct unit of TEN - the unit that he is appealing to as having authority in the NT.



That law also said
"Do not take God's name in vain"
"Honor your father and mother"

You are engaging in creative writing to single out only one of the TEN as if none of the others existed in the OT.

The law Paul quotes in Romans 7 is specifically - "do not covet".

You have "re-imagined" it for us as "honor the Sabbath day".

Was I simply "not supposed to notice"? Surely you have read my posts enough to know that --- that "not supposed to notice" rule would not be followed by me.

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Bob, you keep quoting and following the written law.

Romans 7:6
But now we have been released from the Law, having died to that by which we were bound, so that we serve in newness of the Spirit and not in oldness of the letter.

We do not serve Jesus by way of the oldness of the written law. Hope you noticed that.

You have been released from the law, Bob.

Your under grace now, not under the old written law.

redleghunter said:

The exact quote is:
4And he was reasoning in the synagogue every Sabbath and trying to persuade Jews and Greeks.
Was he trying to persuade them or they needed to keep the Law?

Click to expand...

He was trying to persuade them that "what matters is KEEPING the commandments of God" 1 Cor 7:19
He was trying to persuade them to "Honor your father and mother" because "this is the first commandment WITH a promise" Eph 6:2 ...in that distinct unit of TEN.
He was trying to persuade them that "it is not the HEARERS of the LAW that are just before God but the DOERS of the LAW WILL be JUSTIFIED" Rom 2:13
He was trying to persuade them of the basics "Do we then make void the LAW of God by our faith? God forbid! In fact we ESTABLISH the LAW" Rom 3:31
He was trying to remind them that it is only the lost who "do NOT submit to the LAW of God neither indeed CAN they" Romans 8:4-11.

klutedavid said:

Romans 7:6
But now we have been released from the Law, having died to that by which we were bound, so that we serve in newness of the Spirit and not in oldness of the letter.

Click to expand...

He was trying to persuade them to "Honor your father and mother" because "this is the first commandment WITH a promise" Eph 6:2 ...in that distinct unit of TEN - the unit that he is appealing to as having authority in the NT.

klutedavid said:

The oldness of the written law said, you shall honor the Sabbath day.

Click to expand...

That law also said
"Do not take God's name in vain"
"Honor your father and mother"

You are engaging in creative writing to single out only one of the TEN as if none of the others existed in the OT.

The law Paul quotes in Romans 7 is specifically - "do not covet".

You have "re-imagined" it for us as "honor the Sabbath day".

Was I simply "not supposed to notice"? Surely you have read my posts enough to know that the "not supposed to notice" rule would not be followed by me.

klutedavid said:

Bob, you keep quoting and following the written law.

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Hint - there are 66 books in my Bible..and yours?
Mark 7:6-13 Christ quotes from that same written Law
Matthew 19 - Christ quotes from that same written Law
James 2 - James quotes from that same written Law
Eph 6:2 - Paul quotes from that same written Law.

Bible details matter

you seem to imagine that once God writes "do not take God's name in vain" on stone -- we should then repudiate it to show our Love for God... I find your logic "illusive". Paul says no such thing - not even in Romans 7.

redleghunter said:

... We are either children of God or children of wrath.

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That much is agreed upon, based upon what the word says.

The wrath of God was poured out upon Jesus at Calvary:

Rom_1:18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;

2Co_5:21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

Isa_53:5 But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.

1Pe_2:24 Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed.

Jesus died the penalty for sabbath-breaking.

1Jn_3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

Jesus magnified the law (so that all could see it in its depth and understand) and made it honourable (demonstrating that by the power of God, even the Holy Ghost, the Law of God can indeed be kept in the very sinful flesh we have, as He took upon Himself)

Isa 42:21 The LORD is well pleased for his righteousness' sake; he will magnify the law, and make it honourable.

Jesus is not merely the substitute but is also the example (John 1:29).

1Jn_5:2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments.

Joh 14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.

Exo 20:6 And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.

See Deuteronomy 6:1-5; Leviticus 19:17-18 (in the context of the Ten Commandments, see Deuteronomy 5).

redleghunter said:

What I quoted from Galatians completely refuted the keeping of days ...

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You might want to check your foot for a hole in it ...

There goes all days whatsoever in one fell swoop, including your 'sunday' and any bother for 'observing' it.

But, just as I said, you do not understand Galatians (which wasn't Ad Hominem, but very obviously fact, from your own statement just now).

I already responded to that counter-productive and contradictory misuse of Galatians 4:10 - here - Hebrews Sabbath rest, how do you read it? (and I quote) :

"Galatians 4 doesn't mention "sabbath" either (in fact, all of Galatians doesn't mention it even once). What it does mention is "days, and months, and times, and years."

BTW, whatever 'translation' (I use that term loosely) you are using the Koine Greek does not say "special days" and it doesn't even say "heorte" (feastal days). It just says "days" "observing":

Gal 4:10 Ye observe days, and months, and times, and years.

Gal 4:10 ημερας παρατηρεισθε και μηνας και καιρους και ενιαυτους

The context, of which Paul is citing from is, taking from the OT:

[1] 'days' (daily) meat and drink offerings, oil, etc.

[2] 'months' (monthly new moons)

[3] 'times' (seasons), such as the feasts were held, spring and fall

[4] 'years' (yearly events, such as those things in the feasts that took place only once a year (Leviticus 23), and such as the land rests, Leviticus 25, etc)

It says nothing of the weekly [period]. Even the OT demonstrates this:

Numbers 28:1-31, 29:1-40; 1 Chronicles 23:31; 2 Chronicles 2:4, 8:13, 31:3; Nehemiah 10:33; Isaiah 1:13-14; Ezekiel 45:17, 46:1-11; Hosea 2:11, and see also Galatians 4:10; Colossians 2:16 (tied into Ephesians 2 and Hebrews 9-10)"

redleghunter said:

Going to the KJV does not change the text at all:

Galatians 4: KJV

8Howbeit then, when ye knew not God, ye did service unto them which by nature are no gods. 9But now, after that ye have known God, or rather are known of God, how turn ye again to the weak and beggarly elements, whereunto ye desire again to be in bondage? 10Ye observe days, and months, and times, and years. 11I am afraid of you, lest I have bestowed upon you labour in vain.(KJV)

Why do you observe days, months and times and years when the Apostle Paul said this was law keeping and not the Gospel?

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I am doing no such things as Galatians 4:10 is concerned with in its context. I told you, I already agree with what scripture (Galatians) says. I even offered to go line upon line with you from Galatians 1.

redleghunter said:

Going to the KJV does not change the text at all:

Galatians 4: KJV

8Howbeit then, when ye knew not God, ye did service unto them which by nature are no gods. 9But now, after that ye have known God, or rather are known of God, how turn ye again to the weak and beggarly elements, whereunto ye desire again to be in bondage? 10Ye observe days, and months, and times, and years. 11I am afraid of you, lest I have bestowed upon you labour in vain.(KJV)

Why do you observe days, months and times and years when the Apostle Paul said this was law keeping and not the Gospel?

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redleghunter said:

What I quoted from Galatians completely refuted the keeping of days, and puts Mosaic Law keepers behind the 8 ball of making the atonement of Christ in need of something more.

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Galatians 4 condemns even ONE observance of a pagan holy day.
Romans 14 condemns even ONE case of condemning someone for keeping one of the Bible-approved holy days - annual holy days - in Lev 23.

klutedavid said:

Spirit is new, letter is old.

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The Ten Commandments were always spiritual, written by the Holy Spirit of God (Romans 7:14; Exodus 31:18; Deuteronomy 9:10; Luke 11:20; Matthew 12:18).

No man can keep a spiritual law (such as the Ten Commandments are) by simply striving for the letter, and specially with a carnal mind (Romans 8:7), and no man can say that they have kept the spirit of the law while transgressing a single letter/word of it (James 2:10). For the Ten Commandments come from abudance of the Heart of God, thus He spake and thus it was written.

Jesus walked in the Spirit. He kept the 7th day (Luke 4:14-19) and even entered into His rest, the sabbath of the Lord, in His death, He ceased speaking, until His resurrection.

In His heart is the perfect and royal (for kings) and holy (for priests) law of God, the Ten Commandments. It is the heart of the new and everlasting covenant, which He gives to us and He writes upon us, for it is by grace through faith ... in God's, "I will ..." (Jeremiah 31, etc)

redleghunter said:

I think this thread can be best answered by ...

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One word which describes the anti-nominians. "Hopscotch".

redleghunter said:

I think this thread can be best answered by the Apostle when he wrote (Romans 13:8-14)...

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This was addressed already - https://www.christianforums.com/threads/hebrews-sabbath-rest-how-do-you-read-it.8091429/page-5#post-73449080 - (and I cite):

"You just erred and fulfilled Peter's concerns (as by the Holy Ghost), in

2Pe_3:16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.

The wages of sin is death/destruction. Sin is the transgression of the Law (1 John 3:4; Exodus 20:1-17; Romans 7:7). Jesus came to destroy the works of the devil, sin:

1Jn_3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

Paul himself wrote:

Php 3:18 (For many walk, of whom I have told you often, and now tell you even weeping, that they are the enemies of the cross of Christ:

Why are those that Paul is talking about, "enemies of the cross of Christ"? Because they want the name, but not the repentance. They refuse to come into obedience to God's Law, through God's grace, which is what the Ten Commandments start with:

Exo 20:2 I am the LORD thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.

Saved by Grace.

Followed by loving obedience, through faith in the salvation wrought in Christ Jesus:

Exo 20:6 And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.

Joh 14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.

How many lawgivers?

Jas_4:12 There is one lawgiver, who is able to save and to destroy: who art thou that judgest another?

Romans 14, the quick of it.

Rom 14:1 Him that is weak in the faith receive ye, but not to doubtful disputations.
Rom 14:2 For one believeth that he may eat all things: another, who is weak, eateth herbs.
Rom 14:3 Let not him that eateth despise him that eateth not; and let not him which eateth not judge him that eateth: for God hath received him.
Rom 14:4 Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand.
Rom 14:5 One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.
Rom 14:6 He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it. He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks.
Rom 14:7 For none of us liveth to himself, and no man dieth to himself.

This is used to teach that God regards not any day as Holy, such as the 7th Day the Sabbath of the LORD thy God (Genesis 2:1-3; Exodus 20:8-11), and that all days or no days may be kept at man's whim. Yet that is not what Romans 14 (and yea, all of Romans) teaches at all. Notice carefully,

[1] the days spoken of are associated with eating/drinking, not eating/not drinking.

[2] the matter is over those 'weak' and 'strong' in faith concerning eating/drinking and days to do and not do those things on

[3] the context deals with "One man esteemeth", and not what God esteems (Isaiah 56:1-8, 58:13; Psalms 89:34) as permanent and so, and God's word is clear about what men esteem:

Luk_16:15 And he said unto them, Ye are they which justify yourselves before men; but God knoweth your hearts: for that which is highly esteemed among men is abomination in the sight of God.

The Jews continually argued over which were better days to do this thing or that thing, like fasting, feasting, etc: [Matthew 9:14; Mark 2:18; Luke 5:33, 18:12 KJB]

[4] the words for sabbath is not present in all of Romans 14, neither in all of Romans

[5] the words of the seventh day is not present in all of Romans 14, neither in all of Romans

[6] the words for the Lord's day is not present in all of Romans 14, neither in all of Romans

[7] Romans 14 is in the context of Romans 13, which directly cites the latter (2nd) table of the Ten Commandments, for love to neighbour, which is also found in Leviticus 19:17-18, in the context of sin and the Ten Commandments

[8] Romans 15 is the other end, and when combined with 1 Corinthians 8-10, the context is clear that the sabbath of the LORD thy God (Exodus 20:8-11) is not in view in the least, and is sustained by the rest of Paul in Romans by his statements on the eternal spiritual, holy, just and good Law (Exodus 20:1-17) of God, which identifies what sin is (Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4)

[9] the entire context of Romans 14 is to do nothing (even if allowed normally, yet not under special circumstances) to cause others to sin:

Rom 14:13 Let us not therefore judge one another any more: but judge this rather, that no man put a stumblingblock or an occasion to fall in his brother's way.

[10] Paul never contradicts himself, and Paul's writings are scripture (2 Peter 3:16), and scripture cannot be broken, John 10:35) and does not teach transgression of God's Law (Exodus 20:1-17) at any point:

Rom 6:1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
Rom 6:2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?

Rom_6:15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.

Rom_7:7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.

[11] the words for "law", "commandments" are never used in Romans 14

[12] Paul in numerous places lists and upholds every single one of the Ten Commandments in the NT, including the 4th Commandment (Genesis 2:1-3; Exodus 20:8-11) in Hebrews 3-4, etc.

[13] Romans 14 is about excluding those things which were "doubful disputations", and not a single one of the Ten Commandments (Exodus 20:1-17) were ever doubtful or to be disputed in any place in all of scripture (KJB), for the Commandment of God are "sure" (Psalms 111:7).

[14] the words for "covenant/testament" are never used in Romans 14

[15] the words for 'first [day] of the week' are never used in Romans 14, neither in all of Romans

[16] none of the 'Sunday' (first [day] of the week) churches use Romans 14 to teach that I may ignore the day they gather on, even though that day is not sanctified by God in any way what so ever in scripture (KJB), and is never called "the Lord's day" in scripture, neither is it "the seventh day the sabbath of the LORD thy God".

[17] nobody uses Romans 14 to teach I can simply stop eating/drinking on every day

[18] anyone who quotes Romans 14, has in mind 'restrictions', rather than allowances"

And if you looke carefully at Romans 13:

Rom 13:8 Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.

(mankind must itself at every moment fulfill the law, as it is written elsewhere, Romans 8:4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. and James 2:8 If ye fulfil the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well

Rom 13:9 For this (citing Exodus 20, the Ten Commandments, from the second Table, dealing with man to man), Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended (in otherwords, there is much more, as Psalms 119:96) in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

Rom 13:10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

The Law of God, the Ten Commandments, that spiritual (Romans 7:14) Law of God, is ever present to be fulfilled by those indwelt by the Holy Ghost, as Jesus was (Luke 4:14-19; Acts 5:32).

The issues in the Roman church weren't sabbath-breaking (they already honored it). It was rather those specific things mentioned by Paul.

liberty of conscience said:

The Ten Commandments were always spiritual, written by the Holy Spirit of God (Romans 7:14; Exodus 31:18; Deuteronomy 9:10; Luke 11:20; Matthew 12:18).

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Oldness of the letter of the law.

No man can keep a spiritual law (such as the Ten Commandments are) by simply striving for the letter, and specially with a carnal mind (Romans 8:7), and no man can say that they have kept the spirit of the law while transgressing a single letter/word of it (James 2:10). For the Ten Commandments come from abudance of the Heart of God, thus He spake and thus it was written.

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That is correct, that is why it condemned you.
That is why you are not under the law, you are under grace now.

Jesus walked in the Spirit.

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The only one who ever really kept the law.

He kept the 7th day (Luke 4:14-19) and even entered into His rest, the sabbath of the Lord, in His death, He ceased speaking, until His resurrection.

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Jesus broke the Sabbath and also claimed equality with God.

In His heart is the perfect and royal (for kings) and holy (for priests) law of God, the Ten Commandments.

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The Spirit gives life but the letter of the law kills.

It is the heart of the new and everlasting covenant, which He gives to us and He writes upon us, for it is by grace through faith ... in God's, "I will ..." (Jeremiah 31, etc)

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Correct, love is written into the believers heart.
Not the prohibitions of the law.