Why so few? It is such a sad reality.

Lik3 · Nov 28, 2018

Matthew 7:14
But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it.

Matthew 24:10-13
10 And then shall many lose faith and shall betray one another and shall hate one another.
11 And many false prophets shall rise and shall deceive many.
12 And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.
13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

Why will only a few people be obedient believers who have walked the narrow road? Only a few people as compared to the rest of the world, will be raptured. It is sad and quite sobering and scary at the same time. I now wonder how does one remain obedient to the true gospel of our Savior and then get so easily deceived by prophets who came from the church initially, but were not of the church. It is so sad, but Jesus did in fact come to bring division, as it illustrates a Deity, not a a god who is milquetoast God who not your buddy.

I know that Jesus mentioned something about someone laying His (or her) life for His friends. It means that Jesus was crucified for not just those who hate Him, but also for those who love Him, such as most of the disciples. Only born again believers who truly love Jesus were called His friends. It is obvious that Jesus really doesn't have many friends for most of the world were adulterers who do not know the Holy Spirit and love the world and the things in the world. Not only do they not understand or know Him, they don't show respect to Him because of their unfaithfulness to Him.

The Trinity are not of the world, and neither are true believers. We are in the world, but are not of the world. Jesus has chosen us out of this world, for they hate or show aversion towards us. That only means Jesus has chosen a few because only few will be able to escape the Lake of Fire and enter the New Jerusalem. Predestined does not mean that Jesus automatically chose only a few to labor for the gospel, preach the gospel, and witness to others. The laborers will be few. Predestination involves in truth free will as God created us to have free will. Predestination is about prophecy. It has been predicted that only a few will enter Heaven. Only a few will escape eternal punishment. It could have been the majority due to free will, but because He is God, His will is perfect and so is the 100% sure accuracy of His prophecy(ies).

I have spent quite a bit of time reading and studying the Bible over the years. Correct me if I am wrong. It seems like that the Bible isn't just 25% or 33% prophecy. The entire Bible is a book of prophecy in my eyes. (Note that I am a fundamentalist Baptist who not only believe that God created us with free will and the ability to learn, think, and grow, but to also have a strict, conservative interpretation of the Bible.) God already foreknew what has, what is happening, and what will be happening. In other words, the Bible is a prophetic Book where we have a God who allows us to be humans who choose, learn, fall, and grow from experiences, thus the teaching or parable of the narrow road is about the path we choose to take. Yes the Holy Spirit plays a role, but we can either choose to follow Him or not.

Sadly, only a few will not reject God. Only a few will enter Heaven. Only a few will be raptured. Only a few will walk the narrow road. This saddens and sometimes frustrates me. With all of this writing about predestination, prophecy, and free will. My question is, why can't most people make the right choice and allow themselves to be convicted by the Holy Spirit? Why only a few? Why not many? How would things change if Jesus were to say that most have a chance to or will be raptured with Him one day? I just find it sad that compared to the world's population, only a few will not have their part in the Lake of Fire.

Rawtheran · Nov 28, 2018

Lik3 said:
Matthew 7:14
But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it.

Matthew 24:10-13
10 And then shall many lose faith and shall betray one another and shall hate one another.
11 And many false prophets shall rise and shall deceive many.
12 And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.
13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

Why will only a few people be obedient believers who have walked the narrow road? Only a few people as compared to the rest of the world, will be raptured. It is sad and quite sobering and scary at the same time. I now wonder how does one remain obedient to the true gospel of our Savior and then get so easily deceived by prophets who came from the church initially, but were not of the church. It is so sad, but Jesus did in fact come to bring division, as it illustrates a Deity, not a a god who is milquetoast God who not your buddy.

I know that Jesus mentioned something about someone laying His (or her) life for His friends. It means that Jesus was crucified for not just those who hate Him, but also for those who love Him, such as most of the disciples. Only born again believers who truly love Jesus were called His friends. It is obvious that Jesus really doesn't have many friends for most of the world were adulterers who do not know the Holy Spirit and love the world and the things in the world. Not only do they not understand or know Him, they don't show respect to Him because of their unfaithfulness to Him.

The Trinity are not of the world, and neither are true believers. We are in the world, but are not of the world. Jesus has chosen us out of this world, for they hate or show aversion towards us. That only means Jesus has chosen a few because only few will be able to escape the Lake of Fire and enter the New Jerusalem. Predestined does not mean that Jesus automatically chose only a few to labor for the gospel, preach the gospel, and witness to others. The laborers will be few. Predestination involves in truth free will as God created us to have free will. Predestination is about prophecy. It has been predicted that only a few will enter Heaven. Only a few will escape eternal punishment. It could have been the majority due to free will, but because He is God, His will is perfect and so is the 100% sure accuracy of His prophecy(ies).

I have spent quite a bit of time reading and studying the Bible over the years. Correct me if I am wrong. It seems like that the Bible isn't just 25% or 33% prophecy. The entire Bible is a book of prophecy in my eyes. (Note that I am a fundamentalist Baptist who not only believe that God created us with free will and the ability to learn, think, and grow, but to also have a strict, conservative interpretation of the Bible.) God already foreknew what has, what is happening, and what will be happening. In other words, the Bible is a prophetic Book where we have a God who allows us to be humans who choose, learn, fall, and grow from experiences, thus the teaching or parable of the narrow road is about the path we choose to take. Yes the Holy Spirit plays a role, but we can either choose to follow Him or not.

Sadly, only a few will not reject God. Only a few will enter Heaven. Only a few will be raptured. Only a few will walk the narrow road. This saddens and sometimes frustrates me. With all of this writing about predestination, prophecy, and free will. My question is, why can't most people make the right choice and allow themselves to be convicted by the Holy Spirit? Why only a few? Why not many? How would things change if Jesus were to say that most have a chance to or will be raptured with Him one day? I just find it sad that compared to the world's population, only a few will not have their part in the Lake of Fire.

9 "The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. Instead he is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance."- 2 Peter 3:9

16" For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." - John 3:16

I think that once we get to Heaven we will be amazed at who makes it and it wouldn't surprise me that many who we didn't think would make it actually end up accepting Jesus. There absolutely is only one way to Heaven, One Path to follow, and that is Christ. The cost of discipleship is high but ultimately God will prevail. We his church will prevail as well.

trophy33 · Nov 28, 2018

I think it means "from Israel". Jews coming to Christ are very few.

Regarding Christians from all nations, it will be "crowd that nobody is able to count".

com7fy8 · Nov 28, 2018

Hi, Lik

You talk about how Jesus says only a few will inherit eternal life >

Revelation chapter seven. The number of saved people, here, is more than we could count. But Jesus might mean few

as you said:
compared to the world's population,

In any case, it is not about the quantity, but the quality.

"rather let it be the hidden person of the heart, with the incorruptible beauty of a gentle and quiet spirit, which is very precious in the sight of God." (1 Peter 3:4)

Yes, we need to say no to Satanic spiritual things, but how we become is what matters. In the "gentle and quiet spirit" of God's love we share in how this love is "incorruptible" > against various Satanic emotions, drives, feelings, stinking thinking, unforgiveness, and raging anger and bitterness; this is because of God's character being shared with us, not because of our own will's choice making and self discipline. And in the beauty of God's love we are pleasing to our Father like Jesus is so pleasing, and Ephesians 5:2 commands this, in how we love and relate.

Romans 8:29 > we in Jesus are destined to be conformed to His image. So, this is the objective of ministering for people to be saved. We are not only helping people get a ticket to Heaven.

JazzHands · Nov 28, 2018

Beautifully articulated Lik3. I'm neither Baptist, nor fundamentalist, I'm not even the devout Roman Catholic I once was but my faith in God remains strong. I confess, I have trouble with literal interpretations of the Bible if only because I see all too many parallels in nature and I'm not convinced that the scriptures were ever meant to be viewed through a prism but rather as the narrators voice to a holistic narrative that encompasses everything both spiritual and temporal but I admire your absolute focus.

eleos1954 · Nov 28, 2018

Rawtheran said:
9 "The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. Instead he is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance."- 2 Peter 3:9

16" For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." - John 3:16

I think that once we get to Heaven we will be amazed at who makes it and it wouldn't surprise me that many who we didn't think would make it actually end up accepting Jesus. There absolutely is only one way to Heaven, One Path to follow, and that is Christ. The cost of discipleship is high but ultimately God will prevail. We his church will prevail as well.

"The entire Bible is a book of prophecy in my eyes."

I believe this also, because as far as the historical portions, history keep repeating itself and will continue so in a sense prophecy. We (mankind) keep doing the same things over and over and over. Then yes of course definite detailed prophesies that have been fulfilled .... and therefore we know future prophesies will be fulfilled as well. The Bible, God Word .... amazing!

JohnB445 · Nov 28, 2018

Millions and millions a number I can't count will be saved. Yet unfortunately, millions and millions will be lost as well. Thank God, that the Lord has made Christianity as the majority however since it is much easier to find Jesus when his light is greater than all. Imagine Christianity being a small religion where only a few people heard of it.

Religion Adherents Percentage
Christianity 2.4 billion 33%
Islam 1.8 billion 24.1%
Secular/Nonreligious/Agnostic/Atheist 1.2 billion 16%
Hinduism 1.15 billion 15%

67% of the World needs saving, hopefully more come to Christ.

icxn · Nov 29, 2018

The answer is simple really. By saying a few He causes us to be vigilant and sober, virtues that anchor oneself to an evangelical way of life and yield a lot of fruit in terms of 'saving deeds' and saved individuals.

BarWi · Dec 8, 2018

icxn said:
The answer is simple really. By saying a few He causes us to be vigilant and sober, virtues that anchor oneself to an evangelical way of life and yield a lot of fruit in terms of 'saving deeds' and saved individuals.

But doesn't this answer place one in the uncomfortable position of claiming Jesus lied in order to scare people into submission? Is an "evangelical way of life" the only one able to yield much fruit? Didn't the prophets and apostles yield fruit, yet there was no "evangelical way of life" then, assuming you mean in today's popular sense of participation in evangelical conservatism. Just curious.

icxn · Dec 9, 2018

BarWi said:
But doesn't this answer place one in the uncomfortable position of claiming Jesus lied in order to scare people into submission?

To a disobedient child it might appear so, but the threats and chastisements of a good father are motivated by love not some passion of anger or control.

Is an "evangelical way of life" the only one able to yield much fruit? Didn't the prophets and apostles yield fruit, yet there was no "evangelical way of life" then, assuming you mean in today's popular sense of participation in evangelical conservatism. Just curious.

Evangelical way of life is to be shaped by and live the commandments of Christ. To be humble, meek, forgiving, charitable, chaste, not a lover of money... everything that Chirst and His prophets and apostles were. And real fruit are those who bear the above... fruits.

BarWi · Dec 9, 2018

But doesn't this answer place one in the uncomfortable position of claiming Jesus lied in order to scare people into submission?
To a disobedient child it might appear so, but the threats and chastisements of a good father are motivated by love not some passion of anger or control.

But this sidesteps the question without addressing it. Here's the problem as I see it...

If only a few will be saved, which is immediately at conflict with other passages that suggest many will be saved--as pointed out in other posts in this thread--then to suggest that, "By saying a few He causes us to be vigilant and sober, virtues that anchor oneself to an evangelical way of life and yield a lot of fruit in terms of 'saving deeds' and saved individuals" seems to be saying that Jesus is telling a fib in order to promote a turn to right-doing in people. This leads to an "ends justifies the means" conclusion. Reminds me of an amusing comment by Voltaire, "In this country we find it pays to shoot an admiral from time to time to encourage the others!" But you see the conundrum, don't you? For Jesus to lie violates the perfection of His character and this we can't have.

Evangelical way of life is to be shaped by and live the commandments of Christ. To be humble, meek, forgiving, charitable, chaste, not a lover of money... everything that Chirst and His prophets and apostles were. And real fruit are those who bear the above... fruits.

Okay, if this is your definition of evangelicalism then I wouldn't argue with it. We can agree here.

icxn · Dec 10, 2018

BarWi said:
But this sidesteps the question without addressing it. Here's the problem as I see it...

If only a few will be saved, which is immediately at conflict with other passages that suggest many will be saved--as pointed out in other posts in this thread--then to suggest that, "By saying a few He causes us to be vigilant and sober, virtues that anchor oneself to an evangelical way of life and yield a lot of fruit in terms of 'saving deeds' and saved individuals" seems to be saying that Jesus is telling a fib in order to promote a turn to right-doing in people. This leads to an "ends justifies the means" conclusion. Reminds me of an amusing comment by Voltaire, "In this country we find it pays to shoot an admiral from time to time to encourage the others!" But you see the conundrum, don't you? For Jesus to lie violates the perfection of His character and this we can't have.

So did God lie when He did not destroy Ninevah or when He granted Hezekiah 15 more years of life?

BarWi · Dec 10, 2018

icxn said:
So did God lie when He did not destroy Ninevah or when He granted Hezekiah 15 more years of life?

Sorry, it's been a while since I read the stuff you reference and don't have time now to research it. Can you provide references and state more explicitly what your point is?

You might also respond to the stuff posted earlier or at least tie the new request to past posts so I understand the connections you're making between what has been discussed and where you're going with new request. Thanks.

Valetic · Dec 10, 2018

It's not like you can save them. God already did enough at the cross. Just do the most you can with what you have. Don't worry about the rest. That's for them to decide. You just focus on your eternal security and let them worry about theirs. I'm not saying do nothing, but the love for God and them should compel you towards them, not the fear of their condemnation. You won't have these feelings in the afterlife, only peace.

icxn · Dec 11, 2018

BarWi said:
Sorry, it's been a while since I read the stuff you reference and don't have time now to research it. Can you provide references and state more explicitly what your point is?

The point is that repentance has the power to change God's judgements and that doesn't make God a liar.

As for references, the sparing of Nineveh you will find in the book of Jonah and the forgiveness of Hezekiah in 2 Kings 20.

BarWi · Dec 12, 2018

icxn said:
The point is that repentance has the power to change God's judgements and that doesn't make God a liar.

As for references, the sparing of Nineveh you will find in the book of Jonah and the forgiveness of Hezekiah in 2 Kings 20.

Okay, I see how you're connecting the dots now. The only way post #8 makes sense to me in this context is if your claim is that Jesus deceived by saying few saved when in fact many will be saved. I assumed you were making the case there that actually only few would be saved, and Jesus deceived in order to get a few more in the door [I'm paraphrasing your intent in #8, please correct if wrong.]

I'm not seeing these as the same. I've come to the conclusion that what the anti-religious call God's "lies" in the OT actually can be seen to adhere to a specific, reasonable pattern. When He deals with humans, He adopts the changeability of this sphere of existence. This isn't lying, though: the whole of God's message in both Testaments is one of 'repent and be saved', so it's implicit in His threats to punish or destroy within this life that these proclamations are mutable, as are most things in this existence. In contrast, His eternal proclamations--plans about His eternal purposes, about His characteristics, etc.--adopt the immutability of the eternal sphere and can be accepted as unchangeable fact.

I don't think the idea that Jesus fibbed or stretched the truth (or however you want to characterize His words) in order to exhort some to salvation falls under the same pattern as the Father's proclamations in the OT. More likely imo is that because most of Jesus' teachings are obviously metaphoric in nature, the way to harmonize His ideas is to try to figure out which of His teachings are intended to have literal and which have figurative meaning. For example if the types of salvation He's referring to are different--the salvation alluded to in Mat 7 pertaining to an earthly salvation (as when Noah and family were saved from the flood by obeying and building the Ark), while that of Rev 7:9 references the eternal, no contradictary explanation is necessary and the tension it brings to the discussion vanishes.

icxn · Dec 13, 2018

BarWi said:
... I assumed you were making the case there that actually only few would be saved, and Jesus deceived in order to get a few more in the door...

There's a story...

Two old men had lived together for many years and they had never fought with one another. The first said to the other, "Let us also have a fight like other men." The other replied, "I do not know how to fight." The first said to him, "Look, I will put a brick between us and I will say: it is mine; and you will reply: no, it is mine; and so the fight will begin." So they put a brick between them and the first said, "No, it is mine", and the other said, "No, it is mine." And the first replied, "If it is yours, take it and go." So they gave it up without being able to find a cause for an argument.

Knowing whether few or many are saved is not that important (imo). What is important is that we are numbered with those that are saved and fighting over the former, bricks up (to some degree) the door to the latter. So take your brick and go. I would rather lose an argument than my inner peace, especially for the sake of… a brick.

BarWi · Dec 13, 2018

icxn said:
Knowing whether few or many are saved is not that important (imo). What is important is that we are numbered with those that are saved and fighting over the former, bricks up (to some degree) the door to the latter. So take your brick and go. I would rather lose an argument than my inner peace, especially for the sake of… a brick.

We will have to agree to disagree on the importance of whether few or many are saved. This may not be that important to you or I, but I'm pretty sure it's going to end up being very important to all those involved in the equation.

Curious brick story. I have no intention of robbing you of inner peace, if ending our discussion here assists you in this way, we'll certainly end. Some parting food for thought icxn [how in the world is that name pronounced?!?]: My thinking is that the give and take in discussion, though it's often a battle, can have (doesn't always, maybe not even often) good results. I've learned that the Lord sometimes arranges for and performs His work in inner turmoil. Seems to be a spiritual principle (John 12:24 for example) that tearing down necessarily precedes a rebuilding. Peace out my friend.

Mark51 · Jan 12, 2019

Yes, sad but true. Supporting scriptures: Matthew 20:28; Luke 13:24-27.

By God's unfathomable mercy everyone has the opportunity to avoid this judgment and be rewarded with the gift of everlasting life. Consider, but not limited: Matthew 7:21-23; John 6:35, 42; Colossians 1:9; 2:2, 8; 1 John 2:1-17.

ColinJesusboy28 · Jan 12, 2019

From my journey as a Christian I have studied the "weeds" in the world. Matthew 13:25. This parable talks about how the world had wheat but while we were sleeping the enemy planted weeds. I believe very strongly that there is a large number of "weeds" walking the earth. I call them demons. A demon is a scary word for it. I have come to understand that demons are simply bodies with no souls. Demons/drones don't have fears, thus making them painless and their destination is Hell and destruction but they would never suffer the way that saints do like me and you... There are a lot of demons doing God's will but they remain souless. Not all demons are out to hurt people. Lots of them are out to hurt people though.
Matthew 7:16 "You can tell people by the fruit they produce"

I hope this helps. God Bless! And stay strong in the spirit Brothers and Sisters!

Why so few? It is such a sad reality.

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