The unforgivable sin.

Neostarwcc said:

I know you've heard from many pastors today that the only sin that's unforgivable is the rejection of Christ. Yet Jesus defines the unforgivable sin in scripture as calling the works of God works of the devil. Which is correct? If it really is rejecting Christ until death than why didn't Jesus say so in the gospels? It also can't be calling the works of God the works of the devil because I'm almost daily haunted by thoughts along those lines and Jesus promises to not lose a single believer in John 6:39-40. That would include me and my sins. I know that I have a mental illness and cannot either help or stop these thoughts but... Idk...

Just exactly what IS the unforgivable sin? Can a believer commit it? If yes than why did Jesus lie when he promised not to lose a single believer? Because he had to have lied if a believer COULD commit the unforgivable sin. Share your thoughts.

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You're right that the unpardonable sin is described as attributing the works of the Holy Spirit to Satan. It is spelled out fairly well in the new testament.

But that Jesus said he would lose none of those given to him, and then losing some does not make him a liar. It is described a number of different ways in the new testament by a number of different writers that excludes everything except a person choosing to fall away from their faith through sin or disbelief. No one is held in the faith against their own will.

Neostarwcc said:

I know you've heard from many pastors today that the only sin that's unforgivable is the rejection of Christ. Yet Jesus defines the unforgivable sin in scripture as calling the works of God works of the devil. Which is correct? If it really is rejecting Christ until death than why didn't Jesus say so in the gospels? It also can't be calling the works of God the works of the devil because I'm almost daily haunted by thoughts along those lines and Jesus promises to not lose a single believer in John 6:39-40. That would include me and my sins. I know that I have a mental illness and cannot either help or stop these thoughts but... Idk...

Just exactly what IS the unforgivable sin? Can a believer commit it? If yes than why did Jesus lie when he promised not to lose a single believer? Because he had to have lied if a believer COULD commit the unforgivable sin. Share your thoughts.

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The only unforgivable sin is rejecting the Holy Spirit.
The reason is that this builds a wall between you and
God that doesn't allow you to accept His forgiveness.

His forgiveness is still there, but if you intentionally
build a wall, you loose access to God's forgiveness
of all sins. This is "the sin that leads to death."

If you reject God, you're saying scripture is not from God, and our blessings are not from God, and so "is the work of the devil". That's from Jesus' viewpoint.

There is no permanent or unpardonable sin of any kind.

21 Then Peter came to Jesus and asked, “Lord, how many times shall I forgive my brother who sins against me? Up to seven times?”
22 Jesus answered, “I tell you, not just seven times, but seventy-seven times !


"Unpardonable" simply means that as long as you hold on to that sin of rejecting God, God is unable to pass His forgiveness on to you. Jesus did His part, you just need to accept it as sufficient, in faith.

Neostarwcc said:

I know you've heard from many pastors today that the only sin that's unforgivable is the rejection of Christ. Yet Jesus defines the unforgivable sin in scripture as calling the works of God works of the devil. Which is correct?

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Hi Neostarwcc, since the "unpardonable sin" is a sin which can ~never~ be forgiven once it's committed (whether in this life or in the next), then 'rejecting Christ' cannot be what the Lord was referring to in Matthew 12, Mark 3, & Luke 12, because people reject Him all the time and are later forgiven when they become Christians.

Yours and His,
David

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Neostarwcc said:

I know you've heard from many pastors today that the only sin that's unforgivable is the rejection of Christ. Yet Jesus defines the unforgivable sin in scripture as calling the works of God works of the devil. Which is correct? If it really is rejecting Christ until death than why didn't Jesus say so in the gospels? It also can't be calling the works of God the works of the devil because I'm almost daily haunted by thoughts along those lines and Jesus promises to not lose a single believer in John 6:39-40. That would include me and my sins. I know that I have a mental illness and cannot either help or stop these thoughts but... Idk...

Just exactly what IS the unforgivable sin? Can a believer commit it? If yes than why did Jesus lie when he promised not to lose a single believer? Because he had to have lied if a believer COULD commit the unforgivable sin. Share your thoughts.

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It's known as apostasy. That's one who identifies himself as a believer, but later makes a permanent rejection of the faith. The Holy Spirit comes into play in that one cannot come to genuine faith unless the Father draws him. And Father uses the Holy Spirit to do so. The Holy Spirit brings the revelation of the gospel, which takes time, the person nominally identifying himself with the Christian community in the process. But then if the information doesn't translate to faith but rather rejection, or in many cases into the heretical modification of the gospel to accommodate one's preconceived notions, then the Holy Spirit gives up on the person. He had his chance and lost it.

Neostarwcc said:

I know you've heard from many pastors today that the only sin that's unforgivable is the rejection of Christ. Yet Jesus defines the unforgivable sin in scripture as calling the works of God works of the devil. Which is correct? If it really is rejecting Christ until death than why didn't Jesus say so in the gospels? It also can't be calling the works of God the works of the devil because I'm almost daily haunted by thoughts along those lines and Jesus promises to not lose a single believer in John 6:39-40. That would include me and my sins. I know that I have a mental illness and cannot either help or stop these thoughts but... Idk...

Just exactly what IS the unforgivable sin? Can a believer commit it? If yes than why did Jesus lie when he promised not to lose a single believer? Because he had to have lied if a believer COULD commit the unforgivable sin. Share your thoughts.

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Jesus is not a liar. Many of the promises are conditional (ie if) it takes some kind of action or response on our part exercising our free will .... now no ... I'm not talking works, so please don't bring that into the conversation.

The unpardonable sin is the continuous rejection of the Holy Spirit.

John 6:39-40

39 And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that I shall lose none of those He has given Me, but raise them up at the last day.

It is His will that none be lost .... He is not saying that none will be lost. He wants all to be saved .... but not saying that all will be saved because not all will make that choice.

God Bless.

bcbsr said:

The Holy Spirit comes into play in that one cannot come to genuine faith unless the Father draws him. And Father uses the Holy Spirit to do so.

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Hi BCBSR, I never knew that. Where does the Bible tell us, 1. the way/means/method that the Father uses to draw us and 2. that it's the HS, not the Father, who actually does the drawing)?

Thanks!

--David

St_Worm2 said:

Hi BCBSR, I never knew that. Where does the Bible tell us, 1. the way/means/method that the Father uses to draw us and 2. that it's the HS, not the Father, who actually does the drawing)?

Thanks!

--David

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The Father is in heaven. The Spirit is here "He will convict the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:" Jn 16:8

Ac 7:51 "You stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears! You always resist the Holy Spirit; as your fathers did, so do you." So we see here affirmation that the Spirit tries to influence unbelievers.

St_Worm2 said:

Wait, isn't God omnipresent?

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God is. The Father is one member of the trinity which makes up the Godhead. He's our Father in heaven. And there's more than 20 verses that use that phrase. Likewise with Jesus. Jesus came from heaven and went back to heaven and we are waiting for him to return. That's the rhetoric the scriptures use.

Neostarwcc said:

I believe that too. But where does the Bible say that? The only thing the bible says on the subject is that if you at right the power of God to that of Satan than there is no forgiveness. If the unforgivable sin is rejecting God than why didn't Jesus actually say that virtually ANYWHERE in the New Testament.

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This covers people in the state-of-not-believing:

Matthew 12:31-32
Therefore I tell you, every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven people, but the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven. And whoever speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come.

Mark 3:29
But whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit never has forgiveness, but is guilty of an eternal sin”—

Luke 12:10
And everyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but the one who blasphemes against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven.

This covers people in the state-of-believing:

2 Corinthians 5:17
Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation. The old has passed away; behold, the new has come.

Romans 8:1
There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus.

So you might like an example of "Blaspheme!" for the clarification? Here you go:

Here is Jesus in Mark 3:28–30: “‘Truly, I say to you, all sins will be forgiven the children of man, and whatever blasphemies they utter, but whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit never has forgiveness, but is guilty of an eternal sin’ — for they were saying, ‘He has an unclean spirit.’

There you go. If you say "JESUS HAS AN UNCLEAN SPIRIT," you cannot get past that sin.
Why?
Becasue it forms a barrier to you receiving grace, that's why.
Hopefully you will change your mind, God willing, and then:
2 Corinthians 5:17
Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation. The old has passed away; behold, the new has come.

I may be wrong about this, but I think it is not something that is possible to actually do. Kind of like asking if God can create a rock so big that even He cannot lift it. Nothing wrong per se regarding the question, but it isn't meant to be answered seriously by anyone who would sincerely want to know if such a thing were possible.

So let's dissect this...

"For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit, and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, if they fall away, to renew them again to repentance, since they crucify again for themselves the Son of God, and put Him to an open shame." (Hebrews 6:4-6)

The writer is saying from the onset that what he is about to offer in the form of a thing to ponder, is impossible. The reason is that God's forgiveness is not something that even we ourselves have the power to mess up. It is likewise impossible for someone whose name is written in the Lamb's Book of Life to commit such an offense as to blaspheme the Holy Spirit, because you are sealed with the same and is the glue so to speak, which binds you to the Father, through the Son. Actually glue is not a good example, an epoxy resin is a better analogy, as the bond made is so strong that the original would break away before the actual adhesive would.

In theory you could commit such an offense. In reality God would have never preordained and sealed you with the Spirit, if you were going to negate that seal and bond at a later time. God is not bound by time, so the thought that you could at one point in time be sealed for eternity with and to Him, and then later break that bond and seal is simply absurd from an omnipotent being who transcendence of time and space would not allow this to happen.

Sometimes we say and do things that we might mean with what we think is with everything we have. But how often do we look back at these things years later and see clearly that we thought we believed this or that, but were simply struggling through something that didn't allow us to see the whole picture at that particular point and place in time?

Neostarwcc said:

I know you've heard from many pastors today that the only sin that's unforgivable is the rejection of Christ.

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This is not the entire picture. It is the reason that they reject Christ that is unpardonable.

Yet Jesus defines the unforgivable sin in scripture as calling the works of God works of the devil. Which is correct?

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This is it. Calling the works of Christ in the power of the Spirit the works of an unclean spirit.

If it really is rejecting Christ until death than why didn't Jesus say so in the gospels?

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Because that is not the meaning. People reject Christ and then later come to believe Him all the time.

It also can't be calling the works of God the works of the devil because I'm almost daily haunted by thoughts along those lines and Jesus promises to not lose a single believer in John 6:39-40. That would include me and my sins. I know that I have a mental illness and cannot either help or stop these thoughts but... Idk...

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Do you believe in your heart that Jesus did His works by the power of an unclean spirit? If not, then you are not in danger.

Just exactly what IS the unforgivable sin?

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It I believing in your heart that Jesus was possessed by an unclean spirit, and therefore was not the Son of God and did not reconcile us to God. This is not a thought that just crosses your mind, but a settled belief in your heart.

Can a believer commit it?

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IDK... it seems to me that it is highly unlikely for anyone to come to faith in Christ and then later decide to reject Christ because He was demon possessed. Is it theoretically possible? Yes. Likely? No. This sin was a problem at the time of Christ because the Jewish leaders were saying He was possessed by an unclean spirit in an attempt to discredit Jesus. This was something that could have kept people from coming to Christ because they respected the leaders, but I sincerely doubt anyone has ever truly placed their faith in Christ and then later rejected Him for this reason.

If yes than why did Jesus lie when he promised not to lose a single believer? Because he had to have lied if a believer COULD commit the unforgivable sin. Share your thoughts.

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I don't think it has ever happened, so there is no contradiction. Many Jews probably never came to Christ at all for this reason, but it is highly unlikely that anyone was indwelt by the Spirit and then rejected Christ for this reason.

Hope this helps!
Michael

I would love to clarify this issue for any who are afraid they have done this and want SOLID biblical answers to all of these questions on this thread and how to reconcile it all and how to know you are NOT unforgivable, then call me. 904 403 1908. If i dont answer, leave a message to let me know to call u back. or text me. We will let scripture define scripture, not people and opinions etc etc. Do not fear calling me, you will be relieved... not condemned. Blessings.