More women priests being ordaned than men.

W2L said:

How then will you love me as yourself?

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Really? I’ve always seen you as a pest. But that’s probably how lots of people see me. Does that explain it?

LoreneDD said:

Really? I’ve always seen you as a pest. But that’s probably how lots of people see me. Does that explain it?

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No it doesnt explain it. Forgive me for pestering you but i would like an answer.

W2L said:

No it doesnt explain it. Forgive me for pestering you but i would like an answer.

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I did answer. God gives it.

W2L said:

What about those who believe that Female priests are wrong? How do you love them as yourself?

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I would create no laws criminalizing such individuals. But non-profits corporations would need to remain unbiased in order to retain non-profit status.

Daniel 2:20-21
Daniel answered and said: “Blessed be the name of God forever and ever, to whom belong wisdom and might. He changes times and seasons; he removes kings and sets up kings; he gives wisdom to the wise and knowledge to those who have understanding;

LoreneDD said:

I did answer. God gives it.

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You are asserting that to love others as myself means to let women be priests. But what if i believe this is wrong and that only men can serve in that capacity? how are you loving me as yourself? The same love must go both ways, not be one sided.

I believe you are misinterpreting scripture.

SkyWriting said:

I would create no laws criminalizing such individuals. But non-profits corporations would need to remain unbiased in order to retain non-profit status.

Daniel 2:20-21
Daniel answered and said: “Blessed be the name of God forever and ever, to whom belong wisdom and might. He changes times and seasons; he removes kings and sets up kings; he gives wisdom to the wise and knowledge to those who have understanding;

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But you have created a law, the law of love. And you are using it to condemn those who dont agree with you. You are asserting that those who dont agree with female priests are not loving others as themselves therefor they are lawbreakers.

W2L said:

But you have created a law, the law of love. And you are using it to condemn those who dont agree with you. You are asserting that those who dont agree with female priests are not loving others as themselves therefor they are lawbreakers.

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I don't recall any condemnation.

Please use the forum quote function to skewer me and my diversity issues.

Radagast said:

But I agree with you. Sometimes faithful service can even mean losing everybody. Have you ever read this novel?

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No, and not sure where you're going with that...

section9+1 said:

Maybe it's because men aren't available. Bible says that when it comes to churches, God gives the growth. When women take over from men, the church changes. It appears the growth has stopped. Churches can be obliterated by outside forces, but when they die internally, something has failed.

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Actually, the growth hasn't stopped.

Consider; at the same time as the proportion of the Australian population which is Anglican has dropped, the overall population of Australia has increased significantly. The Anglican Church of Australia continues to baptise and confirm people; to receive them as members from other churches; to engage with the wider Australian community in new and creative ways which allow us to proclaim the good news.

New people come to faith in Christ and membership in Christ's body, in our church, every day. Some of our fastest-growing congregations are made up of new migrants, and worshipping in languages like Chinese, Arabic, Malayalam, dialects spoken by Burmese and Sudanese people, and so on.

That's growth. If there were no growth there'd be no baptisms, no enquirers, no study groups, etc.

What has perhaps dropped is the rate of growth we saw when almost half the population brought their babies to us for baptism by default; but that's just not going to happen any more. Instead, in a much more challenging social context, what we see and celebrate is that God is still at work in bringing people to saving faith, and incorporating them into local bodies of believers, where they can be nurtured and exercise their gifts for the sake of the kingdom.

Albion said:

The situations are not identical, but approximately the same thing happened in the United Methodist Church. After womens ordination was approved, the number of women candidates, and then women ministers, exploded. Interestingly enough, however, most of them seem to be assigned to failing congregations/parishes (of which the UMC has plenty), often two of them at once.

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It is certainly true for us also that women are over-represented in leading struggling churches, and also in chaplaincy roles, and under-represented in leading strong and vibrant parishes. The reasons for that are complicated, I think, and have to do not only with sexism (unconscious or not) in people making appointment decisions, but also in women seeking out roles which allow them to better balance family and church responsibilities. (A six-day-a-week full-time vicar of a parish struggles to have much time for family, or anything other than work... I speak from personal experience!)

W2L said:

What about those who believe that Female priests are wrong? How do you love them as yourself?

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As long as they refrain from personal attacks, I don't find that any problem at all. We get along with mutual respect and courtesy, and often are able to pray with and for one another, cooperate in mission, and so on.

SkyWriting said:

I don't recall any condemnation.

Please use the forum quote function to skewer me and my diversity issues.

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When you say we must love others as our self by allowing women to be priests, you are suggesting that those who dont agree with you are not loving others as themselves. You are condemning them by accusing them of not loving others.

Paidiske said:

As long as they refrain from personal attacks, I don't find that any problem at all. We get along with mutual respect and courtesy, and often are able to pray with and for one another, cooperate in mission, and so on.

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So you would not agree with the assertion, that has been made by others, which says that loving others as our self means that we must let women be priests?

The fact that I disagree with you on an issue does not preclude me from loving you.

JackRT said:

The fact that I disagree with you on an issue does not preclude me from loving you.

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Tell that to the posters who say we are not loving others if we dont agree that women can be priests. They are the ones saying we must agree out of love.

W2L said:

Tell that to the posters who say we are not loving others if we dont agree that women can be priests. They are the ones saying we must agree out of love.

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Not "must" --- they are simply recommending better course of action.

W2L said:

So you would not agree with the assertion, that has been made by others, which says that loving others as our self means that we must let women be priests?

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It depends on the situation.

It is not unloving, imo, to choose to belong to a church which doesn't ordain women. But it would be unloving to seek to prevent other churches from ordaining women, or to insist that churches other than yours must abide by your stance on this issue, and to then attack or demean or speak pejoratively of those churches or the ordained women within them.

Specifically, on CF, which is ecumenical and accepts all Nicene Christians, it would be unloving to - for example - accuse those women or members of their churches of being not really Christian, of ignoring Scripture, of being apostates or heretics, and so on. (Such posts are made regularly here).

I think loving your (ordained woman) neighbour means treating her with the same basic courtesy and respect with which you'd treat any sincere Christian striving to serve God with all her heart, mind, soul and strength.

W2L said:

When you say we must love others as our self by allowing women to be priests, you are suggesting that those who dont agree with you are not loving others as themselves. You are condemning them by accusing them of not loving others.

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I never tell other people how they should behave. I'm not like Saul/Paul.

I mention what scripture says and it's in Gods hands for them to absorb His will in their lives. You might run around accusing and condemning others with your ideas, but don't make the mistake of thinking other people are like you. We aren't like you. You are just yourself.

Plus, again your failure to quote properly, I never said love.
I said "treating people the same as you'd want to be treated."

Since that is different for every person, then I have no basis to judge anyone.
How people love is different for each person as well.

I hold (others) in the same esteem, as I would wish others to think about me.
For this is the essence of the Law and the prophets.

W2L said:

When you say we must love others as our self by allowing women to be priests, you are suggesting that those who dont agree with you are not loving others as themselves. You are condemning them by accusing them of not loving others.

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Please use the forum quote function and stick to what I say.

Paidiske said:

Actually, the growth hasn't stopped.

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For the Anglican Church in Victoria, absolute numbers are 1966: 923,078 / 2001: 715,407 / 2006: 682,156 / 2011: 666,472 / 2016: 539,357

For Australia as a whole, absolute numbers are 1966: 3,914,119 / 2001: 3,880,829 / 2006: 3,716,152 / 2011: 3,679,169 / 2016: 3,100,493

(data from https://www.anglican.org.au/data/News/Census_Anglicans_1966_to_2016.pdf)

Zoii said:

Nice graph. I remember seeing something similarly after the last Census. The discussion was the the predominant trend is away from religious beliefs of any type.... the exception being 'Other Religions'

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Catholics are holding steady. Pentecostals are growing rapidly. The Anglican Church and the Uniting Church are both in decline.

My point, Radagast, wasn't about overall numbers. It was about people entering the kingdom of God.

Even if our numbers are dropping, every baptism is growth.