God is confirming His NT warnings through His prophets/watchmen

1stcenturylady

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Several people who say they hear from God
(I won't call them prophets/watchmen any more),
are saying that His "remnant" believers who have been practicing righteousness, who are faithful, sanctified unto holiness, etc. will be the first fruits taken up in a pre-trib rapture; and those left behind who do the blue will be divinely protected and provided for during the reign of the antichrist.

It's the old story ...
God is only pleased with those who do da blue!
Don't mean to make a joke of it.

I have my own eschatology based on what I see in scripture. I'm pre-wrath. What I see is that when the "fullness of the Gentiles" has come into the Church, the focus of the Spirit goes back to national Israel to come into the Church, Romans 11:25-27; Daniel 9:24-27, but the Gentiles who are already in the Church will be here during the Great Tribulation (GT). There will be no more Gentiles coming into the Church during the GT as they will receive from God a strong delusion, 2 Thessalonians 2:11, to follow after the Antichrist. Those who "come out of the GT in Revelation 7, are those out of the Thyatira (RCC and O), Sardis (Reformation) and Laodecian (modern nominal) church age denominations, who will have to make a stand for Christ and be martyred. They are the "the rest of her offspring" of Revelation 12:17, meaning Gentiles of spiritual Israel (Romans 11), while national Israel will be protected during the first half of the GT, Revelation 12:16, Daniel 9:27. The Philadelphia type Christian (those in your blue) who have already been keeping God's Word, will be protected, not raptured in some secret rapture (which I see no scriptural reference for. Even Noah was there during the flood, but protected, so that is a lame reference as I see it for a secret rapture.) The Philadelphian will be protected and kept from harm as the children of Israel were protected while still in Egypt during the plagues.

Pre-tribbers use Jesus returning with the saints as one of their proofs that a secret rapture had to have already happened before the second coming, but that is not accurate. 1 Thessalonians 4 says who those "saints" are. Those who are "asleep." They are all the dead Christians, plus all the OT saints who looked forward to their Messiah.

13 But I do not want you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning those who have fallen asleep, lest you sorrow as others who have no hope. 14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who sleep in Jesus. (Not, and also alive saints).

15 For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep. 16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. (Some like to have another meaning to "in the air.") And thus we shall always be with the Lord. 18 Therefore comfort one another with these words.
 
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1stcenturylady

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What percentage of North American churches
are first century modeled churches? ... 1%

This is the Laocedian Church Age, so 1% seems about right. :(
 
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1stcenturylady

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Again, I repeat that the 120 were born-again ...
BEFORE the staggering events on the day of pentecost.

In Acts 1:15 they are called disciples or believers.
In Acts 2:1 they are called "they" or believers.
... Depending on your Bible version ...
The NLT calls them "believers" in both verses,
which is what they were!

And I repeat, they believed in Jesus, but had not received the Spirit. It is the giving of the Spirit that makes one born of the Spirit - born again.

Look at Peter. He walked with Christ for 3 years, yet denied him 3 times! Why? NO SPIRIT - NO POWER - WEAK - OLD NATURE.

Look at all those you and I have talked about who believe in Jesus, but believe false doctrines that turn the grace of God into lasiviousness. They are not born of God. They believe in freedom TO sin, not freedom FROM sin. They know about Jesus, but don't abide in Him.
 
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BCsenior

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And I repeat, they believed in Jesus, but had not received the Spirit. It is the giving of the Spirit that makes one born of the Spirit - born again.
Acts 1:14 - The disciples were praying in the upper room.
Acts 1:15 - They were joined by others (total of 120).
NKJV calls the 120 disciples and brethren.
NLT calls the 120 believers and brothers.
And they all prayed for a replacement for Judas.

Both of my 2 pentecostal/charismatic commentaries
say the 120 were believers (i.e. having the Spirit)
... and they were praying and waiting for pentecost.

Acts 2:1, NLT "On the day of pentecost all the believers were meeting together in one place, etc."
 
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1stcenturylady

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Acts 1:14 - The disciples were praying in the upper room.
Acts 1:15 - They were joined by others (total of 120).
NKJV calls the 120 disciples and brethren.
NLT calls the 120 believers and brothers.
And they all prayed for a replacement for Judas.

Both of my 2 pentecostal/charismatic commentaries
say the 120 were believers (i.e. having the Spirit)
... and they were praying and waiting for pentecost.

Acts 2:1, NLT "On the day of pentecost all the believers were meeting together in one place, etc."

I'm not sure what your point is. You have to "believe" before you can be born again.
 
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BCsenior

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I'm not sure what your point is. You have to "believe" before you can be born again.
Yes, and don't we say that believers are BACs?
Of course, really only God knows who are sheep and
who are goats, etc.
If a person says he is a believer and prays with other believers, can't we accept him/her as being a believer?

None of these believers had time to see if everyone
had been demonstrating fruit, which proves who true believers are.

Then, how about if there were only 5 believers
who were actually born-again? These 5 had received
the first Spirit baptism, waiting for the second.

That would be quite a sight ...
120 non-BACs praying for the pentecostal blessing!
 
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ToBeLoved

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I have a topic " or what could be seen as a warning " to share . Is anyone interested ?
Personally I’d start a new thread. This one is off on tangents. With your own the scope can be controlled and people are not having mini conversations.

But you can try here.
 
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1stcenturylady

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Yes, and don't we say that believers are BACs?
Of course, really only God knows who are sheep and
who are goats, etc.
If a person says he is a believer and prays with other believers, can't we accept him/her as being a believer?

None of these believers had time to see if everyone
had been demonstrating fruit, which proves who true believers are.

Then, how about if there were only 5 believers
who were actually born-again? These 5 had received
the first Spirit baptism, waiting for the second.

That would be quite a sight ...
120 non-BACs praying for the pentecostal blessing!

Did all Old Testament "believers" in the coming Messiah have the Holy Spirit? No! Only prophets and kings were anointed. That is why you have the struggle of the old nature trying to keep the law in Romans 7. Impossible.

You seem to be confusing post-falling of the Spirit (now), with pre-falling of the Spirit and say those before the falling of the Spirit, did, in fact, have the Holy Spirit. But Jesus said to wait for the power. So, they were powerless Spirit-filled believers? And you think the practice of gambling with lots is from the Spirit? What if none of them were God's chosen replacement, but the lots made it so one of them would have to be chosen by lot, but not by God? What if Paul was God's chosen man to replace Judas, and they took it upon themselves to choose for God? Luke only reports what happened, not whether God told them to gamble.
 
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BCsenior

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You seem to be confusing post-falling of the Spirit (now), with pre-falling of the Spirit and say those before the falling of the Spirit, did, in fact, have the Holy Spirit. But Jesus said to wait for the power. So, they were powerless Spirit-filled believers?
If you checked my chart, you would easily see that the "power" has to do with the baptism with the Holy Spirit, and ditto for "the promise", and "the gift", and the Spirit falling "upon".
BACs have very little "power" compared to those having the second Spirit baptism. Only these are Spirit-filled (shown in the chart also).
The power Jesus was talking about was spiritual power for evangelizing ... with SWMs confirming the gospel.

Hope this helps someone!
 
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ToBeLoved

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If you checked my chart, you would easily see that the "power" has to do with the baptism with the Holy Spirit, and ditto for "the promise", and "the gift", and the Spirit falling "upon".
BACs have very little "power" compared to those having the second Spirit baptism. Only these are Spirit-filled (shown in the chart also).
The power Jesus was talking about was spiritual power for evangelizing ... with SWMs confirming the gospel.

Hope this helps someone!
The spiritual power you talk about has nothing to do with any person.

Somehow their is a spiritual ego trip that some people seem to be on.

No man has any power. The Holy Spirit and God have power.

It’s a sad day when servants think they have power.
 
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Kenny'sID

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2 questions

BACs have very little "power" compared to those having the second Spirit baptism.

Do you have that second spirit baptism?

If you checked my chart, you would easily see that the "power" has to do with the baptism with the Holy Spirit, and ditto for "the promise", and "the gift", and the Spirit falling "upon".

I must have missed that chart, can you please tell me where it 's posted. along with the post number? Thanks
 
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BNR32FAN

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No one was "born again" until Pentecost. They couldn't be born again until they received the Spirit which didn't come till Acts chapter 2.

The Holy Spirit had already “abideth” with them before Pentecost.

“even the Spirit of truth: whom the world cannot receive; for it beholdeth him not, neither knoweth him: ye know him; for he abideth with you, and shall be in you.”
‭‭John‬ ‭14:17‬

And by Jesus was their teacher and source of guidance before Pentecost. Had they not become a new creation before Pentecost? We’re they still the same sinful person they were before they met Jesus? A person who is born again is also referred to as someone who is born of God or born of the Spirit. Today we mostly associate this with born of the Spirit because our advocate is the Holy Spirit but the apostles advocate was Jesus Christ until he ascended to heaven. Then their advocate was the Holy Spirit which in both cases are God.
 
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