How many gifts of the Spirit are mentioned in the Bible, and which ones are still operating today?

Alithis

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Of course I believe in Sola Scriptura. I have recently created a Biblical defense for Sola Scriptura in this thread here. In fact, my belief in Sola Scriptura has helped to strengthen my Biblical argument as to why certain gifts have ceased. Anyways, to see my reasons (according to the Bible) why I think certain gifts have ceased, check out my post #81.
Yeah checked it.
A collection of out of context verses mulched into ambiguity..
With the comment where ypu say
"Miracles hace ceased " ..
Of course thats about as false as you can get it

Jennifer was Deaf since a baby ,after we laid hands on her in prayer. She can now hear.
Im sure shes very happy that Your opinion is Wrong.

. the other night Sala was healed.. She is very happy miricles have not ceased.

Ade heard our friend speak in her own language.. Thats awsome.
But our friend was speaking in tongues ...God is amazing.

All this in the last month's ..not Sorry to burst your bubble
But the lord Jesus I serve still lives.
 
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Alithis

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First, that really does not explain Revelation 13:18 in what it says plainly.
I know, it is probably uncomfortable for you to hear it, but truth always has a way of doing that. I imagine that your thinking that the verse cannot be saying that, right? It has to mean something else. My answer: Sorry. It means what it says. Just believe it.

Second, you have to re-write the entire Bible if you plan on ignoring the ascribed meaning given to numbers in the Bible. Different numbers have a repeated meaning to them through out the whole of Scripture. Noah was in the Ark for 40 days and 40 nights while it rained. He was in a trial of sorts because I am sure that ride was not a smooth one when it was storming outside. Jesus was also in a trial or test. He fasted for 40 days and 40 nights. This is just the tip of the iceberg. If a person actually did a study on Biblical numerics, I imagine someone out there would be so in awe of God's Word in being divine that they would be on their knees in their closet for a while giving glory to God.
I dont have to do a number study to be in awe of GOD.
He healed me,
Set me free from demons ,
Filled me with his Holy SPIRIT and i have seen all that and more now happen to others.

Your non activated faith is misguided and your theories are simply wrong .
Ypur so busy trying to orove God can't
That youve missed out on the truth that he can
 
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JacksBratt

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how is your light so shined?
Every minute of every day.. I try to be kind, forgiving, respectful, understanding, patient, generous, unselfish and serve where I can.

Have you ever met or had the moment in your life to be around someone... and....you just think to yourself... they must be a Christian? Not by what they say. Not because they are healing, preaching, prophesying, showing great faith or even speaking in tongues? Every had that experience?

Well, that's the type of person that I try to be... So others will know that I am a Christian... or at least see Gods goodness in me... You know.. let my little light shine.

I do know people like this. They are not always Christians... but... should not all Christians be easily recognized like this.

I don't always succeed in doing this. I fail. I get grumpy, I get impatient, self serving etc... but I am well aware of it when I do.

That.... is my outward gift and my "fruit" that shows that I am a child of God.

I have been asked, several times, where do you get the strength to do these things... That brings God joy and tells me that my compass is pointing north.
 
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DamianWarS

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I believe certain gifts are still operational today.
I believe God can do miracles today.

While God can do miracles today (of his own choosing and by the answering of prayer), and while certain gifts do remain for the church today; However, the gifts of...

you present an argument that crumbles on the interpretation of one cryptic word in 1 Corinthians 13:10 or "the perfect". teleion of 1 Corinthians 13:10 is not the same as teleion of Ephesians 4:13 or the same as teleion in James 1:17 even though they all look identical.

1 Corinthians is nominative case, neuter gender and singular number and Ephesians 4:13 differs even though they look identical. it's case is accusative and its gender is masculine and number is the same. Greek adjectives agree with their nouns in case, gender and number so highlighting these differences are important and they can show us different things for example a perfect car is different than a perfect lasagna and even still different than "perfection".

In Ephesians 4:13 because it is accusative, masculine, singular we expect the head noun is also accusative, masculine, singular as well, and it in fact is, as the head noun is "andra" or "a man" so the translation of "a perfect man" is fitting. However with 1 Corinthians 3:10 it is a different matter. it is nominative case, which means it identifies the subject, the gender is neuter and it is a singular. So like Ephesians 4:13 we should expect the head noun to also be nominative, neuter, singular but if you search for one you will find there is no head noun. Sometimes the noun is implied and if so this would mean there is an implied noun that is neuter and singular (the case is arbitrary) floating out there somewhere that can be described as "perfect".

Finding this lost neuter noun is a wasted effort because when an adjective is nominative and neuter and has no head noun this overwhelmingly suggests it is in the substantive function and the abstract context confirms it is this way which means it turns into a nominal adjective and it also means it is it is an abstract. This can be contrasted with the same word in James 1:17 which is also a nominative, neuter, singular but in James's case it is not in the substantive function as it has a head noun which is "gift" and this is a neuter noun. So for James it is a "perfect gift" but for Corinthians it is simply "the perfect".

Saying "...when the perfect comes..." is a good translation but because it is abstract in english we often use words then end in "-ness" or "tion" so it could be perfection or completeness but it's a little awkward with the definite article saying "the perfection" or "the completeness" because they tend to stand on their own as "when perfection comes..." or "when completeness comes..." so "when the perfect comes..." is still a good translation because it maintains the word as it is in context without forcing it to be more abstract but simply "the perfect".

what is important with this distinction is the 1 Corinthians' perfect stands alone as an abstract where in Ephesians it describes a noun, specifically a man (and James a "thing" or "a gift"). They are actually different words in context and as an abstract it essentially could describe anything, regardless of gender or number, that is fitting of something that is perfect, and yes it may describe a person and it doesn't have to be "a perfect thing" because it is a neuter and this is because it is an abstract and all abstracts are neuter. Historically this word has always been interpreted as a meaning of perfection in heaven or Christ's return and it really wasn't until the charismatics entered the game that this word was challenged so much. because of it's abstract context we can't just pull out a strong's concordance and look up all the words and then surmise it's meaning. It is an abstract and there is no other example of its form in the bible.

So what is "the perfect"? Well context tells us that when this perfect comes that which is "in part disappears" What is "in part" then? the in part is the our need for spiritual giftings from the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit gives us these gifts because we cannot obtain these things on our own merit. The gifts are in deed tongues, prophecy and apostleship but we ignore context when we stop at these. The context is all the spiritual gifts not a select few. Paul already makes points using a few gifts as an example but the context is all the gifts not just the few he mentions and this is no different. When the perfect comes we will no longer need the giftings of the Holy Spirit and all will cease. So what is the perfect? I really don't know and I actually lean towards the resurrection but what I do know is that because one gifting of the Holy Spirit is still here it means they are all still here.

This doesn't demand support for cases of abuse of tongues which is a different discussion, abuse doesn't void the purpose and if that were the case love would have ceased along with tongues. What it tells us is the gifting of tongues is still offered as is all the giftings and if you want to know it's correct role then study scripture not the worst modern examples of it. The Corinthians also had problems with abuse but Paul still concluded with "forbid not to speak with tongues", the modern church's response however seems to be "forbid to speak with tongues"
 
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Tree of Life

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The gifts
  1. The Word of Knowledge
  2. The Word of Wisdom
  3. The Gift of Prophecy
  4. The Gift of Faith
  5. The Gift of Healing
  6. The Working of Miracles
  7. The Discerning of Spirits
  8. Different Kinds of Tongues
  9. The Interpretation of Tongues
Many people make claims ... however to determine if the all the claims made are true is impossible because we don't personally know everybody in the world making claims and have not been present to witness them (claims) and don't have access to all the details. Although certainly possible.

What about gifts of helps, administrations, and the gift of teaching?
 
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Righttruth

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How many gifts of the Spirit are mentioned in the Bible, and which ones are still operating today?

And discuss.
The gibberish talk and its doubtful interpretation stopped as per Paul's advice only to be relapsed by the deluded in USA about a century ago!
 
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Kaon

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Not true. Jesus not only operated by the Spirit, but He also operated by the Father, too (See John 14:10).
While Jesus suppressed His divine power of Omniscience (i.e. To know all things), He also had power as God during His Earthly ministry, too.

Jesus had power as God.

#1. Jesus said He has power to raise the dead to life just as the Father had power to raise the dead (John 5:21).
#2. Hebrews 1:3 talks about how Christ held all things together by the word of His power when He purged us of our sins.
#3. Jesus said, He would raise up this Temple (His body) three days later (John 2:19).
#4. Jesus had the power to forgive sins and give eternal life (Mark 2:7) (Luke 7:44-50) (John 14:6).
#5 Jesus had power to take away the sins of the entire world (John 1:29).
#6. Jesus Christ said wherever two or three are gathered in my name, there I am among them (Matthew 18:20). This was said to the people he was around and not to just us today.
#7. Jesus knew men's thoughts (Matthew 9:4) (Matthew 12:25) (Mark 2:8) (Luke 5:22) (Luke 6:8) (Luke 9:47) (Luke 24:38).
#8. Jesus knew about the lives of others (John 2:24) (John 4:17-18) (John 4:29) (John 6:64).​

For Jesus is the second person of the Godhead or the Trinity.
The fulness of the Godhead dwelled within Him bodily (Colossians 2:9).
For God was manifest in the flesh (1 Timothy 3:16).

The context was specifically when He walked the earth as a Son of Man.

Of course the Word of God Himself operates through the providence of the Most High God Himself.
 
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Bible Highlighter

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Yeah checked it.
A collection of out of context verses mulched into ambiguity..
With the comment where ypu say
"Miracles hace ceased " ..
Of course thats about as false as you can get it

Jennifer was Deaf since a baby ,after we laid hands on her in prayer. She can now hear.
Im sure shes very happy that Your opinion is Wrong.

. the other night Sala was healed.. She is very happy miricles have not ceased.

Ade heard our friend speak in her own language.. Thats awsome.
But our friend was speaking in tongues ...God is amazing.

All this in the last month's ..not Sorry to burst your bubble
But the lord Jesus I serve still lives.

While I am not saying that GOD was not operating in this situation, the working of miracles is not the real proof that a person is operating by the power of God always. For we read in Matthew 7,

22 "Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity." (Matthew 7:22-23).

Jesus says we will know them by their fruit (Matthew 7:20).

What are the fruits of the Spirit?

1. Love.
2. Joy.
3. Peace.
4. Long-suffering (Patience).
5. Faith.
6. Self Control (Disciplined)
7. Goodness.
8. Gentleness.
9. Humbleness (Meekness - KJV).

Galatians 5:22-23.

So if a person is operating by miracles, the fruits should also be there, too.
 
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The context was specifically when He walked the earth as a Son of Man.

Of course the Word of God Himself operates through the providence of the Most High God Himself.

The fulness of the Godhead dwelled within him bodily (Colossians 2:9). Jesus is GOD.
Jesus did not have a beginning (Micah 5:2). He is the Word (GOD) made flesh (John 1:1-2, John 1:14). GOD was manifest in the flesh (1 Timothy 3:16).
 
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The gibberish talk and its doubtful interpretation stopped as per Paul's advice only to be relapsed by the deluded in USA about a century ago!

I tend to agree that Scripture says Tongues and Traditional Prophecy have ceased. But I strive not to say that anyone claiming to do this is false (So as not to speak against GOD if I am wrong).

Anyways, there are 22 gifts that are clearly stated in Scripture (Ephesians 2:8, Acts of the Apostles 2:38, Romans 12:6-8, 1 Corinthians 12:8-11, 1 Corinthians 12:28, Ephesians 4:11-12) for the early church. 1 of these gifts (that is clearly stated) has changed in function or operation (Prophecy*); And 7 of these gifts (that are clearly stated) are not in operation today. So there are 15 operational gifts today (that are clearly stated in Scripture).

Here are the Gifts (that is clearly mentioned) that are in operation today:

1. Jesus (The Gift of God's Grace, Salvation).
2. Holy Ghost (Is a Gift).
3. Prophecy.* (Note: The nature of this gift has changed; See note below.).
4. Ministry (Preaching the Gospel).
5. Teaching.
6. Exhortation.
7. Giving.
8. Leadership.
9. Mercy.
10. Discerning Spirits.
11. Gift of Helping Others (KJV - Gift of Helps).
12. Gift of Administration or Organizing (KJV - Gift of Governments).
13. Gift of Evangelism (Winner of Souls)
14. Gift of Pastorship.
15. Gift of Teaching.

Here are the Gifts (clearly mentioned) that are not in operation today:

1. Gifts of Healing,
2. Working of Miracles,
3. Tongues
4. Interpretation of Tongues
5. Gift of Apostleship.
6. Word of Wisdom.
7. Word of Knowledge.


Note:* Prophecy today is not like it was in the early church. The early church would predict future events and could give us new words that could be written down as Holy Scripture. Prophecy today is being able to have the power by the Spirit to be able to discern properly those texts in the Bible that deal with the End Times (i.e. Eschatology).

Other gifts that the Bible mentions the word "gift" in context, but does not tie it directly tie a particular gift by name are:

1. Celibacy (1 Corinthians 7:7).
2. Marriage (1 Corinthians 7:3, 1 Corinthians 7:7).
3. Being Sober and Watchful in Prayer (1 Peter 4:7-11).
4. Hospitality (Sharing one's home or resources with others; Especially brothers) (1 Peter 4:7-11).

Not Directly Stated or Implied Gifts (Galatians 5:22-23):

1. Love.
2. Joy.
3. Peace.
4. Long-suffering (Patience).
5. Faith.
6. Self Control (Disciplined)
7. Goodness.
8. Gentleness.
9. Humbleness (Meekness - KJV).

Other Not Directly Stated or Implied Gifts

1. Voluntary Poverty or Forsaking Possessions (2 Corinthians 8:9) (Matthew 19:21-26 - with a special focus on Matthew 19:26).
2. Intercession (Romans 8:26-27).

Other Not Directly Stated or Implied Gifts That are No Longer in Operation:

1. Dreams (Acts of the Apostles 2:17).
2. Visions (Acts of the Apostles 2:17).

I am sure there are more, but so far by my count, this would mean that there are 30 gifts in operation today and 39 gifts during the time of the Early church.
 
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Alithis

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Every minute of every day.. I try to be kind, forgiving, respectful, understanding, patient, generous, unselfish and serve where I can.

Have you ever met or had the moment in your life to be around someone... and....you just think to yourself... they must be a Christian? Not by what they say. Not because they are healing, preaching, prophesying, showing great faith or even speaking in tongues? Every had that experience?

Well, that's the type of person that I try to be... So others will know that I am a Christian... or at least see Gods goodness in me... You know.. let my little light shine.

I do know people like this. They are not always Christians... but... should not all Christians be easily recognized like this.

I don't always succeed in doing this. I fail. I get grumpy, I get impatient, self serving etc... but I am well aware of it when I do.

That.... is my outward gift and my "fruit" that shows that I am a child of God.

I have been asked, several times, where do you get the strength to do these things... That brings God joy and tells me that my compass is pointing north.
Great ..when you are asked ... Speak the Gospel message.
For if you dont ,then all that lightshining is inside a bucket.
 
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Alithis

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I tend to agree that Scripture says Tongues and Traditional Prophecy have ceased.
Yet we All know scriptures says no such thing.
There is Zero direct unambiguous scripture saying so.
Your twisting of unrealated sentences plucked out and mashed together are not more then a perversion of the text forcefit to support your opinion.

State your opinion .thats fine.but do not misrepresent scripture to do so .thats false witness.
 
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swordsman1

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you present an argument that crumbles on the interpretation of one cryptic word in 1 Corinthians 13:10 or "the perfect". teleion of 1 Corinthians 13:10 is not the same as teleion of Ephesians 4:13 or the same as teleion in James 1:17 even though they all look identical.

1 Corinthians is nominative case, neuter gender and singular number and Ephesians 4:13 differs even though they look identical. it's case is accusative and its gender is masculine and number is the same. Greek adjectives agree with their nouns in case, gender and number so highlighting these differences are important and they can show us different things for example a perfect car is different than a perfect lasagna and even still different than "perfection".

In Ephesians 4:13 because it is accusative, masculine, singular we expect the head noun is also accusative, masculine, singular as well, and it in fact is, as the head noun is "andra" or "a man" so the translation of "a perfect man" is fitting. However with 1 Corinthians 3:10 it is a different matter. it is nominative case, which means it identifies the subject, the gender is neuter and it is a singular. So like Ephesians 4:13 we should expect the head noun to also be nominative, neuter, singular but if you search for one you will find there is no head noun. Sometimes the noun is implied and if so this would mean there is an implied noun that is neuter and singular (the case is arbitrary) floating out there somewhere that can be described as "perfect".

Finding this lost neuter noun is a wasted effort because when an adjective is nominative and neuter and has no head noun this overwhelmingly suggests it is in the substantive function and the abstract context confirms it is this way which means it turns into a nominal adjective and it also means it is it is an abstract. This can be contrasted with the same word in James 1:17 which is also a nominative, neuter, singular but in James's case it is not in the substantive function as it has a head noun which is "gift" and this is a neuter noun. So for James it is a "perfect gift" but for Corinthians it is simply "the perfect".

Saying "...when the perfect comes..." is a good translation but because it is abstract in english we often use words then end in "-ness" or "tion" so it could be perfection or completeness but it's a little awkward with the definite article saying "the perfection" or "the completeness" because they tend to stand on their own as "when perfection comes..." or "when completeness comes..." so "when the perfect comes..." is still a good translation because it maintains the word as it is in context without forcing it to be more abstract but simply "the perfect".

what is important with this distinction is the 1 Corinthians' perfect stands alone as an abstract where in Ephesians it describes a noun, specifically a man (and James a "thing" or "a gift"). They are actually different words in context and as an abstract it essentially could describe anything, regardless of gender or number, that is fitting of something that is perfect, and yes it may describe a person and it doesn't have to be "a perfect thing" because it is a neuter and this is because it is an abstract and all abstracts are neuter. Historically this word has always been interpreted as a meaning of perfection in heaven or Christ's return and it really wasn't until the charismatics entered the game that this word was challenged so much. because of it's abstract context we can't just pull out a strong's concordance and look up all the words and then surmise it's meaning. It is an abstract and there is no other example of its form in the bible.

So what is "the perfect"? Well context tells us that when this perfect comes that which is "in part disappears" What is "in part" then? the in part is the our need for spiritual giftings from the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit gives us these gifts because we cannot obtain these things on our own merit. The gifts are in deed tongues, prophecy and apostleship but we ignore context when we stop at these. The context is all the spiritual gifts not a select few. Paul already makes points using a few gifts as an example but the context is all the gifts not just the few he mentions and this is no different. When the perfect comes we will no longer need the giftings of the Holy Spirit and all will cease. So what is the perfect? I really don't know and I actually lean towards the resurrection but what I do know is that because one gifting of the Holy Spirit is still here it means they are all still here.

This doesn't demand support for cases of abuse of tongues which is a different discussion, abuse doesn't void the purpose and if that were the case love would have ceased along with tongues. What it tells us is the gifting of tongues is still offered as is all the giftings and if you want to know it's correct role then study scripture not the worst modern examples of it. The Corinthians also had problems with abuse but Paul still concluded with "forbid not to speak with tongues", the modern church's response however seems to be "forbid to speak with tongues"

The two gifts that disappear when "completeness" comes are the 2 revelatory gifts, prophecy and words of knowledge. I think is highly unlikely these would be representative of all the gifts. If Paul was choosing example gifts to represent all the gifts he would have chosen a larger number of diverse gifts, not two very similar gifts. Just like he did a few verses earlier (v1-3) where he chose 5 diverse gifts to represent all of them. In fact if they were representative examples here he would most likely have kept the same ones from the earlier verses.

If those 2 gifts are representative of all the gifts then all the other gifts must also be "in part". Now I can see why prophecies would be "in part" because each prophecy provides only a small part of God's revelation to man; but none of the others makes sense as being in part. Miracles are "in part"? Evangelism is "in part"? Exhortation is "in part"? Discernment is in part? Pastors are "in part". Giving is "in part"? Leadership is in part? Mercy is in part? Administration is in part? Helping is in part?

The fact that it was only the 2 revelatory gifts that disappear strongly indicates that their replacement, completeness, would also be revelatory in nature. “In part” refers to the fact that the revelation communicated by these gifts was partial or piecemeal. The corresponding “completeness”, as the counterpart to “in part” most likely refers to a full or complete revelation from God.

Whatever the noun is, it is a concept that Paul could not express in one or two words. Otherwise he would have used those words instead of leaving the noun missing. So that would exclude the resurrection, as Paul had no difficulty using that word throughout his epistle. It would also exclude such easily expressible things as heaven, eternity, the 2nd coming, etc. It would have to be something that cannot easily be expressed as a noun, something like 'the completion and distribution of the canon and subsequent maturing of the church'.
 
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ToBeLoved

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Yet we All know scriptures says no such thing.
There is Zero direct unambiguous scripture saying so.
Your twisting of unrealated sentences plucked out and mashed together are not more then a perversion of the text forcefit to support your opinion.

State your opinion .thats fine.but do not misrepresent scripture to do so .thats false witness.
Interesting thing I’ve noticed though is that none of your posts include scripture.

That is helpful, adding scripture when discussing scripture.

It’s necessary IMHO.
 
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Alithis

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While I am not saying that GOD was not operating in this situation, the working of miracles is not the real proof that a person is operating by the power of God always. For we read in Matthew 7,

22 "Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity." (Matthew 7:22-23).

Jesus says we will know them by their fruit (Matthew 7:20).

What are the fruits of the Spirit?

1. Love.
2. Joy.
3. Peace.
4. Long-suffering (Patience).
5. Faith.
6. Self Control (Disciplined)
7. Goodness.
8. Gentleness.
9. Humbleness (Meekness - KJV).

Galatians 5:22-23.

So if a person is operating by miracles, the fruits should also be there, too.
We see
The deaf hear
The lame walk
Diseases healed.

Tongues (languages)
Interpretation of tongues (by spoken by believers AND interpretation of tongues spoken by unbelievers.
Though we attend no sunday service and adhere to denomination .
The lord moves as he wills and we all experience him doing so .
Healing is almost a Daily experience .

There is absolutley no way your theories of cessation are correct sorry.

But let's topic change...or change tact.
Because there is an aspect of what your saying that you and others have taken too far in one direction while still others have taken it too far in the other direction.

And that's the topic of tongues.
But everyone can plainly read the scriptures
Where he states there are differing Kinds of Languages .
The greek is breeds or species of language.
There are some which cannot be uttered by human enunciation . when you die and stand before GOD with no body.. You will have no mouth with which to enunciate Any language..how will you speak...
-There is a language paul spoke of where his understanding is unfruitful ... It speaks of private communications between the individual and God (this one your supporters brazenly mock the most.-very unwise )..
-There are languages done in loud declaration in the setting of a meeting.. This one should be interpreted for the benefit of all present.
There are languages spoken all over the world where at times ,when needed, we experience interpretations of those languages... (The people on the extreme tongues side of this topic mistakenly think its only about thier little sunday meeting)

The diversity of languages ,types ,breeds species ,is far more broad then people accept.
When God divided the language of mankind it was instant and instantly family groups were speaking in Other tongues ..and could not understand one another. This too was tongues.. The word simply means languages.
....
It is the particular topic of languages and interpretation of languages that I would discuss openly .but cannot as long as people discuss from a predetermined mindset.
A mind that refuses to repent is in an automatic state of enmity with God.

Iv come to believe that much interpretation of tongues has been prophesy {and not all correct (discernment has been lacking)} And not actual interpretation..
The word "interpret" is equally translated as .. "Translation" of tongues.
And this occurs because they hear the language... Understand the language ..and repeated what was said.
Iv come to this consideration of things because that is what we have recently observed happening.
(Few realize that in the early Isuzu street times this was also a common experience. There were russians off the ships who attended the meetings and heard fluent russion being spoken by people who did not speak russian ..they subsequently came to faith because of this sign .)
Sonewhere in the later chrasmatic movements this aspect of true interpretation was usurped.
-so i can see now that its not tongues which are false.
Its the life people live in spite of the fact they speak in tongues
Its the doctrines arisen around tongues.
Its their concept of what they think is translation of tongues which is false.

And now the result is
2 poles... One says its all false
One says its All real..

I believe these are two wrong extremes ..both wrong.
Always in extremes both extremes are often found wrong.
The truth is a narrow straight way doen the middle. A fine line .
 
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Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.
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We see
The deaf hear
The lame walk
Diseases healed.

Jesus said this as a testimony to what He was doing. Nothing is said of this phrase long after the church was doing it's ministry. Folks can quote that certain laws in the Law of Moses are still in effect (like circumcision, etc.), but that would not mean that they are correct. A person has to compare Scripture with Scripture to determine the truth. God does not always spell it out so easily for us. They are spiritual truths that a person has to study and find out for themselves with God. I strive to build the foundation on the Word and not experiences.

You said:
Tongues (languages)
Interpretation of tongues (by spoken by believers AND interpretation of tongues spoken by unbelievers.
Though we attend no sunday service and adhere to denomination .
The lord moves as he wills and we all experience him doing so .
Healing is almost a Daily experience .

Most versions of the tongues I have witnessed via online are not the version of tongues we see in the Bible. Tongues was the speaking of other languages. That is why it was a miracle or miraculous. Someone would sometimes figure out that they were speaking another language and that what they were saying was correct without any study of having ever known that language. Speaking with tongues was ALWAYS with an interpreter, but that is not the chaos that we see in churches today. Paul said he would rather speak five words with the understanding, than ten thousand words without the understanding. A linguist expert set out to investigate the tongues languages spoken in many Charismatic churches. His recordings show that they are not actually speaking any real language.

You said:
There is absolutley no way your theories of cessation are correct sorry.

I believe you are taking experience over what the Word says. But Jesus said to Thomas that blessed are they that do not see and yet believe. I do not need a sign or miracle to believe. Faith comes by hearing and hearing the Word of God (Romans 10:17).
 
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The two gifts that disappear when "completeness" comes are the 2 revelatory gifts, prophecy and words of knowledge. I think is highly unlikely these would be representative of all the gifts. If Paul was choosing example gifts to represent all the gifts he would have chosen a larger number of diverse gifts, not two very similar gifts. Just like he did a few verses earlier (v1-3) where he chose 5 diverse gifts to represent all of them. In fact if they were representative examples here he would most likely have kept the same ones from the earlier verses.

If those 2 gifts are representative of all the gifts then all the other gifts must also be "in part". Now I can see why prophecies would be "in part" because each prophecy provides only a small part of God's revelation to man; but none of the others makes sense as being in part. Miracles are "in part"? Evangelism is "in part"? Exhortation is "in part"? Discernment is in part? Pastors are "in part". Giving is "in part"? Leadership is in part? Mercy is in part? Administration is in part? Helping is in part?

The fact that it was only the 2 revelatory gifts that disappear strongly indicates that their replacement, completeness, would also be revelatory in nature. “In part” refers to the fact that the revelation communicated by these gifts was partial or piecemeal. The corresponding “completeness”, as the counterpart to “in part” most likely refers to a full or complete revelation from God.

Whatever the noun is, it is a concept that Paul could not express in one or two words. Otherwise he would have used those words instead of leaving the noun missing. So that would exclude the resurrection, as Paul had no difficulty using that word throughout his epistle. It would also exclude such easily expressible things as heaven, eternity, the 2nd coming, etc. It would have to be something that cannot easily be expressed as a noun, something like 'the completion and distribution of the canon and subsequent maturing of the church'.

What do you make of my post #110?
 
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JacksBratt

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Great ..when you are asked ... Speak the Gospel message.
For if you dont ,then all that lightshining is inside a bucket.
Very true....If someone wants me to tell them the gospel message.... I would not disappoint them, and have not on many occasions. Sometimes they listen.. sometimes they see it as a crutch... the reactions are as varied as those that hear it.
 
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Kaon

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The fulness of the Godhead dwelled within him bodily (Colossians 2:9). Jesus is GOD.
Jesus did not have a beginning (Micah 5:2). He is the Word (GOD) made flesh (John 1:1-2, John 1:14). GOD was manifest in the flesh (1 Timothy 3:16).

The Son of Man is humiliated God in the Flesh - brought down to man's level - for our benefit and vindication (sacrifice). We know the identity of the Word of God; He was handicapped by His own choosing to be called Son of Man.

Son of Man was one of us. Son of Man was perfect. Son of Man sits on the Right Hand of the Most High God. But, the Word of God Himself was made FLESH - with all of its implications (namely: susceptibility to sin, and carnality).

I am not talking about the Word of God's beginning; we should all know He has no beginning. I am speaking in context: namely when He was Son of Man, and the miracles He completed. At base every human should be able to do what Son of Man did, because we are all sons of man like He became - for our sake.

That means there is no excuse for sons of man not to exhibit some or all of the spiritual gifts the Son of Man Himself did on this plane of existence. We become images of the Most High God because of the sacrifice of the Word of God Himself. He made a way to vindicate us before our Father.

But, we have to stop having the form of godliness, but denying the power therein. There has been no cessation of gifts. The faith in the Word of God to believe you can do what Son of Man did (as a son of man yourself) is the beginning of doing exploits.
 
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The Son of Man is humiliated God in the Flesh - brought down to man's level - for our benefit and vindication (sacrifice). We know the identity of the Word of God; He was handicapped by His own choosing to be called Son of Man.

Son of Man was one of us. Son of Man was perfect. Son of Man sits on the Right Hand of the Most High God. But, the Word of God Himself was made FLESH - with all of its implications (namely: susceptibility to sin, and carnality).

I am not talking about the Word of God's beginning; we should all know He has no beginning. I am speaking in context: namely when He was Son of Man, and the miracles He completed. At base every human should be able to do what Son of Man did, because we are all sons of man like He became - for our sake.

That means there is no excuse for sons of man not to exhibit some or all of the spiritual gifts the Son of Man Himself did on this plane of existence. We become images of the Most High God because of the sacrifice of the Word of God Himself. He made a way to vindicate us before our Father.

But, we have to stop having the form of godliness, but denying the power therein. There has been no cessation of gifts. The faith in the Word of God to believe you can do what Son of Man did (as a son of man yourself) is the beginning of doing exploits.

So you think the Living Word stopped being God while He was a man? 2 Timothy 3:16 says God was manifest in the flesh. Colossians 2:9 says the fullness of the Godhead dwelled within him bodily.
 
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