Tiktaalik vs. Bacterial Flagellum

Aman777 · Dec 6, 2018

pitabread said:
You'll forgive me if my eyes glaze over and I tune out the moment someone starts talking about the "last days". The batting average for those predicting the apocalypse is still zero and I'm not expecting that to change any time soon.

Look around and see that Science has recently discovered that it was 180 million years from the big bang until the first stars lit up. Here’s when the universe’s first stars may have been born Feb 28, 2018 - The first stars lit the cosmos by 180 million years after the Big Bang,

Genesis shows that the beginning of our Heaven was on the 3rd Day Genesis 2:4 but the first stars didn't light up until the 4th Day. Genesis 1:16

Genesis reveals many more recent discoveries of Science so it's not a coincidence, but instead, is evidence that we are indeed, in the last days of this Earth, just before Jesus returns.

pitabread said:
If you've decided that the supernatural is empirically testable, then you've decided something which directly contradicts how science works. This is why people don't take you seriously.

False, since today's interpretation of Genesis is NOT the same as ancient theologians. Scripture agrees in EVERY way with EVERY discovery of Science and History. We have the "increased knowledge" Daniel 12:4 which has been discovered by Science and History, which NO ancient theologian knew at the time. It's proof of God and that He authored Genesis and God was unable to lie, but was required to reveal the Truth in every way. Otherwise, He wouldn't be the perfect God. Amen?

DogmaHunter · Dec 6, 2018

xianghua said:
i dont need to show you a real self replicating car to know that such a car (if were exist) is evidence for design.

/facepalm

Non-existing objects aren't evidence of anything .

its a simple logical conclusion base on the car shape and parts.

Imagined cars, that is.

DogmaHunter · Dec 6, 2018

xianghua said:
realy? here is my original question again: "if you will find such a self replicating car you will conclude design or not?"

and your answer was "I don't know".

You forgot to quote what came after it. Do try.. "I don't know, because...."

i actually showed you an image of that object. so this is not true.

No. You showed me an image of a regular mechanical car made from non-natural materials and you are asking me to pretend that it is actually a living thing instead.

pitabread · Dec 6, 2018

Aman777 said:
Genesis shows that the beginning of our Heaven was on the 3rd Day Genesis 2:4 but the first stars didn't light up until the 4th Day. Genesis 1:16

Genesis reveals many more recent discoveries of Science so it's not a coincidence, but instead, is evidence that we are indeed, in the last days of this Earth, just before Jesus returns.

This is just your usual post hoc interpretations. It's not a prediction.

False

Didn't read past this. You've decided you know more than everyone else, and I really don't care anymore.

Back to the ignore list you go.

Aman777 · Dec 7, 2018

↑
Genesis shows that the beginning of our Heaven was on the 3rd Day Genesis 2:4 but the first stars didn't light up until the 4th Day. Genesis 1:16

Genesis reveals many more recent discoveries of Science so it's not a coincidence, but instead, is evidence that we are indeed, in the last days of this Earth, just before Jesus returns.

pitabread said:
This is just your usual post hoc interpretations. It's not a prediction.

It was until recently when Science confirmed that there was 180 million years between the big bang and the lighting of the first stars. You didn't even try to tell us HOW any man could have possibly written that, more than 3k years ago. It's proof of God and demonstrates that "scientific types" run and hide when confronted with such a refutation to their false assumptions. Maybe the others will quit proclaiming such tripe that when confronted with the Truth, they change their Theories. It's not so.

Here's a prediction for you from Genesis One. Soon, every animal will be changed into a vegetarian. Genesis 1:30 and Isaiah 11:7

46AND2 · Dec 7, 2018

Aman777 said:
↑
You didn't even try to tell us HOW any man could have possibly written that, more than 3k years ago.

That's because they didn't.

Not a single person back then knew what science found out about the stars after the big bang.

It's ignorant story telling. OF COURSE they are going to say the heavens were made first and then the stars, because there has to be something to put the stars IN. Duh.

As pitabread said, it's post hoc reasoning.

And it's truly mind-boggling that you actually think this is some kind of evidence. You can perform this kind of "evidence" revelation on literally any fictional work.

Aman777 · Dec 7, 2018

Aman777 said:
Genesis shows that the beginning of our Heaven was on the 3rd Day Genesis 2:4 but the first stars didn't light up until the 4th Day. Genesis 1:16

46AND2 said:
That's because they didn't.

Not a single person back then knew what science found out about the stars after the big bang.

Amen, That's the point. NO man 3k years ago could have possibly known of the period of time between the beginning of our Cosmos and when the first Stars lit up. The Holy Spirit knew and because He's the Spirit of Truth, He also told us the scientific Truth of recent scientific discoveries, thousands of years ago. What Science is discovering today fulfills the prophecy of the Spirit of Truth.

Act 2:17 And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of My Spirit upon all flesh:

We live today in the last days before Jesus returns and the discoveries of Science are HOW God has chosen to reveal His Truth of Genesis unto ALL flesh, including atheists, agnostics and unbelievers of all kinds. Get ready to bow that knee. Amen?

46AND2 · Dec 7, 2018

Aman777 said:
...the period of time between the beginning of our Cosmos and when the first Stars lit up. The Holy Spirit knew and because He's the Spirit of Truth,

Where is it indicated that the holy spirit knew how long the period of time was?

It could have been LITERALLY ANY AMOUNT OF TIME AT ALL, and you would still make the same claim that the Bible said it first. It is the epitome of a post hoc explanation. The one span of time it does mention...is 1 day...but of course, you know that isn't true...so you have to make the one day figurative, giving you the ability to give it any value YOU want.

There is no indication that ANY author of the Bible, whether man or god, knew of a 180 million year gap between the BB and stars.

Aman777 · Dec 8, 2018

Aman777 said: ↑
Genesis shows that the beginning of our Heaven was on the 3rd Day Genesis 2:4 but the first stars didn't light up until the 4th Day. Genesis 1:16

46AND2 said:
Where is it indicated that the holy spirit knew how long the period of time was?

Follow along closely, please. The first firmament/Heaven was made, by God the Trinity, on the 2nd Day. Genesis 1:8 Other "Heavens" were made, by God the Son/Lord God on the 3rd Day when the first Earth was made. Genesis 2:4 This shows that Jesus/Lord God made at least 2 other HeavenS at the beginning of the 3rd Day, which is some 4.5 Billion years in length, in man's time.

It was late on the 3rd Day, since it was less than 200 Million years until the 4th Day would begin, according to recent discoveries of Science.https://news.nationalgeographic.com/.../first-stars-universe-big-bang-edges-space-scie...Feb 28, 2018 - Now, scientists peering back into deep time suggest that the earliest stars didn't turn on until about 180 million years after the big bang, when ...

The first Stars lit up on the 4th Day, right on time. Genesis 1:16 It's proof of God since NO man of the time could have possibly known and correctly wrote this. Add this to other scientific details, which we are just now discovering, and we can be confident to say that we are living in the last days of this Earth just before Jesus returns. Daniel 12:4 and Acts 2:17

Isa 28:10 For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little:

46AND2 said:
It could have been LITERALLY ANY AMOUNT OF TIME AT ALL, and you would still make the same claim that the Bible said it first. It is the epitome of a post hoc explanation. The one span of time it does mention...is 1 day...but of course, you know that isn't true...so you have to make the one day figurative, giving you the ability to give it any value YOU want.

The big bang was on the 3rd Day/Age Genesis 2:4 and we live today at Genesis 1:27 because God is STILL creating Adam/mankind in His Image or Spiritually in Christ. Ask any preacher. Science has dated the big bang at some 13.8 billion years ago and it was 3 Days/Ages ago to God. This reveals that each of God's Days/Ages is some 4.5 Billion years in length. Unless you know this, you will be frustrated by reading Genesis.

46AND2 said:
There is no indication that ANY author of the Bible, whether man or god, knew of a 180 million year gap between the BB and stars.

The Holy Spirit, the Author of Genesis, is also the Spirit of Truth and He knows everything for He is God the ONLY Being alive 3k years ago that could also see the future, which is currently being confirmed by Science, in these last days just before Jesus returns. Amen?

xianghua · Dec 8, 2018

DogmaHunter said:
No. You showed me an image of a regular mechanical car made from non-natural materials and you are asking me to pretend that it is actually a living thing instead.

i actually said that in this case its a self replicating car. and yet you said that you dont know if such a car is evidence for design by just looking at the image.

46AND2 · Dec 8, 2018

xianghua said:
i actually said that in this case its a self replicating car. and yet you said that you dont know if such a car is evidence for design by just looking at the image.

46AND2 · Dec 8, 2018

Aman777 said:
Aman777 said: ↑
Genesis shows that the beginning of our Heaven was on the 3rd Day Genesis 2:4 but the first stars didn't light up until the 4th Day. Genesis 1:16

Follow along closely, please. The first firmament/Heaven was made, by God the Trinity, on the 2nd Day. Genesis 1:8 Other "Heavens" were made, by God the Son/Lord God on the 3rd Day when the first Earth was made. Genesis 2:4 This shows that Jesus/Lord God made at least 2 other HeavenS at the beginning of the 3rd Day, which is some 4.5 Billion years in length, in man's time.

It was late on the 3rd Day, since it was less than 200 Million years until the 4th Day would begin, according to recent discoveries of Science.https://news.nationalgeographic.com/.../first-stars-universe-big-bang-edges-space-scie...Feb 28, 2018 - Now, scientists peering back into deep time suggest that the earliest stars didn't turn on until about 180 million years after the big bang, when ...

The first Stars lit up on the 4th Day, right on time. Genesis 1:16 It's proof of God since NO man of the time could have possibly known and correctly wrote this. Add this to other scientific details, which we are just now discovering, and we can be confident to say that we are living in the last days of this Earth just before Jesus returns. Daniel 12:4 and Acts 2:17

Isa 28:10 For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little:

The big bang was on the 3rd Day/Age Genesis 2:4 and we live today at Genesis 1:27 because God is STILL creating Adam/mankind in His Image or Spiritually in Christ. Ask any preacher. Science has dated the big bang at some 13.8 billion years ago and it was 3 Days/Ages ago to God. This reveals that each of God's Days/Ages is some 4.5 Billion years in length. Unless you know this, you will be frustrated by reading Genesis.

The Holy Spirit, the Author of Genesis, is also the Spirit of Truth and He knows everything for He is God the ONLY Being alive 3k years ago that could also see the future, which is currently being confirmed by Science, in these last days just before Jesus returns. Amen?

It's been 13.7 billion years since the first stars showed up, which, as you say, had to have been at the beginning of the 4th day in your scenario, so that the Big Bang can be placed in the 3rd day.

That places the creation of the earth more than two full "god" days later, since that happened only 4.5 billion years ago.

But the earth wasn't created on day 6 in the Bible. Neither were the sun and moon which were ALSO formed some 9+ billion years after the first stars.

Genesis 1:16 It's proof of God since NO man of the time could have possibly known and correctly wrote this.

What couldn't they have written? That space was created before the stars? OF COURSE they could. It hardly makes any sense to say that the stars were created first, and then the "heaven" around them. But even ignoring that...they had a 50/50 chance of getting it right...a coin flip.

Your "proof" is underwhelming in the extreme.

pitabread · Dec 9, 2018

xianghua said:
i actually said that in this case its a self replicating car.

Only if one takes a bunch of LSD does that become true.

Speedwell · Dec 9, 2018

xianghua said:
i actually said that in this case its a self replicating car. and yet you said that you dont know if such a car is evidence for design by just looking at the image.

Your arguments based on self-replicating cars, robot penguins and wooden watches are fundamentally useless.

I think the reason for it is a false assumption you are making. You are assuming that if your example is similar in functionality or appearance to an object known to be designed, the similarity is evidence that your example is also designed.

Aman777 · Dec 9, 2018

46AND2 said:
It's been 13.7 billion years since the first stars showed up, which, as you say, had to have been at the beginning of the 4th day in your scenario, so that the Big Bang can be placed in the 3rd day.

Amen. Lord God/Jesus made at least two other Heavens (plural) on the 3rd Day. Gen 2:4

46AND2 said:
That places the creation of the earth more than two full "god" days later, since that happened only 4.5 billion years ago.

Amen. It was some 9 Billion years AFTER the BB (3rd Day) and when our Solar system formed. (5th Day)

46AND2 said:
But the earth wasn't created on day 6 in the Bible. Neither were the sun and moon which were ALSO formed some 9+ billion years after the first stars.

Genesis doesn't tell us when our present Sun was made. It simply tells us that it was made by Lord God/Jesus the 4thDay. Gen 1:16 God the Trinity said:
Gen 1:14 ¶ And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:

As always, God the Son (Jesus) actually carries out the wishes of the Father:

Gen 1:16 And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: He made the stars also.

The period of time before the Son physically formed the lights after God the Father commanded it to be, is not told, nor is it revealed which lights were made when.

46AND2 said:
What couldn't they have written? That space was created before the stars? OF COURSE they could. It hardly makes any sense to say that the stars were created first, and then the "heaven" around them. But even ignoring that...they had a 50/50 chance of getting it right...a coin flip.

The point is that Genesis accurately tells us the recently discovered Scientific Truth, that it was a "period of time" 180 million years, between two days, the 3rd and the 4th, between the big bang of our Cosmos and the lighting of the FIRST Stars. Ancient men could NOT have been that specific...BUT...the Spirit of Truth MUST tell us the complete Truth...whether we can understand it or not. Otherwise, He would NOT be God, since only God sees the future in such detail.

46AND2 said:
Your "proof" is underwhelming in the extreme.

Show us a more specific example of ANY other Scientific Truth, which was written by men more than 3k years ago and only recently announced by Science. Amen?

xianghua · Dec 9, 2018

Speedwell said:
Your arguments based on self-replicating cars, robot penguins and wooden watches are fundamentally useless.

I think the reason for it is a false assumption you are making. You are assuming that if your example is similar in functionality or appearance to an object known to be designed, the similarity is evidence that your example is also designed.

true. if i see something like a car. with 4 wheels etc. i can say that this thing was designed.

Speedwell · Dec 9, 2018

xianghua said:
true. if i see something like a car. with 4 wheels etc. i can say that this thing was designed.

You can say that if you want to. Those of us who know that is a false assumption don't agree with you.

pitabread · Dec 9, 2018

Speedwell said:
I think the reason for it is a false assumption you are making. You are assuming that if your example is similar in functionality or appearance to an object known to be designed, the similarity is evidence that your example is also designed.

And even after it's been explained to him 100x times how his argument is fundamentally fallacious, he's still here pretending otherwise.

If we are being trolled, I give him points for tenacity.

DogmaHunter · Dec 10, 2018

xianghua said:
i actually said that in this case its a self replicating car.

Yes you did.
And no, such "cars" do not exist.

and yet you said that you dont know if such a car is evidence for design by just looking at the image.

Because the image doesn't depict the object that you are talking about.
The car in the picture, is a human manufactured device.

The object you're asking me to imagine, is imaginary.

xianghua · Dec 10, 2018

DogmaHunter said:
Yes you did.
And no, such "cars" do not exist.

Because the image doesn't depict the object that you are talking about.
The car in the picture, is a human manufactured device.

The object you're asking me to imagine, is imaginary.

so what? it was a theoretical question. if you cant answer a theoretical question what can i say. i have no problem to claim that if i will see a self replicating car i will conclude design.

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