Is there an objective standard by which to distinguish sound doctrine from false?

justbyfaith

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Justification by faith alone is a scriptural doctrine (Romans 4:1-8, Romans 11:5-6, Titus 3:4-7, Ephesians 2:8-9).

What genuine, living, bona fide faith does is that it changes the heart (2 Corinthians 5:17, Titus 3:4-7, Ezekiel 36:25-27) so that the one who is born of God does what is right. The love of God is shed abroad in his heart through faith (Romans 5:5, 1 John 4:19, Luke 7:36-50), because he is forgiven much; and this love is practical (1 John 3:17-18) and is the fulfilling of the law within him (Romans 13:8-10, Romans 8:4).

The root is faith; the fruit is the practical love of God.

Therefore it is not the practical loving of others that saves me (in the doing of righteous works); but my faith alone in Christ produces a salvation which includes an impartation of the love of the Lord (which manifests itself in the doing of good works).
 
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Bruce Woodford

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Justification by faith alone is a scriptural doctrine (Romans 4:1-8, Romans 11:5-6, Titus 3:4-7, Ephesians 2:8-9).

Just by faith, You wrote that Justification by faith alone is a scriptural doctrine but it really isn't! The word "alone" is added and one additional word makes a false doctrine because it denies other Bible truths which tell us we are also justified by Christ, by His blood, by grace and by works!
 
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BobRyan

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The Westminster Confession Section VI on the Holy Scriptures seems to recognise two kinds of doctrines: (1) Those which are expressly set forth in scripture and (2) Those which by good and necessary consequence may be deduced from the scriptures. Does not the latter actually undermine and totally destroy the authority of scripture as our only and final authority?

Sound doctrine is established in scripture and tested by scripture. But that was also true when Christ was being baptized. It did not "become true - later". It was already true.

Acts 17:11 they "studied the scriptures daily to see IF those things spoken to them by the Apostle Paul - were SO" -- that is sola scriptura testing - BEFORE the NT is completed. Sola Scriptura testing did not 'become true' later. It was already true.
 
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BobRyan

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Just by faith, You wrote that Justification by faith alone is a scriptural doctrine but it really isn't! The word "alone" is added and one additional word makes a false doctrine because it denies other Bible truths which tell us we are also justified by Christ, by His blood, by grace and by works!

The phrase "by faith alone" is actually in the Bible. It occurs exactly 1 time. See James 2:24 NASB. ESV, NIV, HCB
 
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redleghunter

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Just by faith, You wrote that Justification by faith alone is a scriptural doctrine but it really isn't! The word "alone" is added and one additional word makes a false doctrine because it denies other Bible truths which tell us we are also justified by Christ, by His blood, by grace and by works!
Partially correct.

The Scriptures say we are justified by faith and not the law or works. If it’s by faith and nothing else what does that tell you?

If you went into a room named “Justification” wearing a T-shirt called “faith” and no one else was in the room what wound that be? Yes you would be alone with no others in the room. Now this makes sense in the English language but not the German language. By having alone in the text Luther was not wrong in doing so for the German language. He mentioned the language demanded it.

Plus he was not the first person in Christian history to come to this conclusion.

As seen here:

From a homily by Saint Basil the Great, bishop
(Hom. 20 De humiliate, 3: PG 31, 530-531)

Boast only of the Lord

The wise man must not boast of his wisdom, nor the strong man of his strength, nor the rich man of his riches. What then is the right kind of boasting? What is the source of man’s greatness? Scripture says: The man who boasts must boast of this, that He knows and understands that I am the Lord. Here is man’s greatness, here is man’s glory and majesty: to know in truth what is great, to hold fast to it, and to seek glory from the Lord of glory. The Apostle tells us: The man who boasts must boast of the Lord. He has just said: Christ was appointed by God to be our wisdom, our righteousness, our sanctification, our redemption, so that, as it is written, a man who boasts must boast of the Lord.

Boasting of God is perfect and complete when we take no pride in our own righteousness but acknowledge that we are utterly lacking in true righteousness and have been made righteous only by faith in Christ.


Monday, Week 3 - Office of Readings


Chrysostom does use 'alone' not once but twice in his homily on Acts chapter 15:

Do you mark how closely the trials succeed each other, from within, from without? It is well ordered too, that this happens when Paul is present, that he may answer them. When therefore Paul and Barnabas had no small dissension and disputation with them, they determined that Paul and Barnabas, and certain other of them, should go up to Jerusalem unto the apostlesand elders about this question. Acts 15:2 And Pauldoes not say, What? Have I not a right to be believedafter so many signs? But he complied for their sakes. And being brought on their way by the Church, they passed through Phenice and Samaria, declaring the conversion of the Gentiles: and they caused great joyunto all the brethren. Acts 15:3 And observe, the consequence is that all the Samaritans also, learn what has come to the Gentiles: and they rejoiced. And when they had come to Jerusalem, they were received of the Church, and of the apostles and elders, and they declared all things that God had done with them. Acts 15:4 See what a providence is here! But there rose up certain of the sect of the Pharisees which believed, saying, That it was needful to circumcise them, and to command them to keep the law of Moses. And the apostles and elders came together to consider of this matter.

And when there had been much disputing, Peter rose up and said unto them, Men and brethren, you knowhow that of old days God made choice among us, that the Gentiles by my mouth should hear the word of the Gospel, and believe. Acts 15:5-7 Observe Peter from the first standing aloof (κεχωρισμένον) from the affair, and even to this time judaizing. And yet (says he) ye know. ch. 10:45; 11:2 Perhaps those were present who of old found fault with him in the matter of Cornelius, and went in with him (on that occasion): for this reason he brings them forward as witnesses. From old days, he says, did choose among you. What means, Among you? Either, in Palestine, or, you being present. By my mouth. Observe how he shows that it was God speaking by him, and no human utterance. And God, that knows the hearts, gave testimony unto them: he refers them to the spiritual testimony: by giving them the Holy Ghost even as unto us. Acts 15:8 Everywhere he puts the Gentiles upon a thorough equality. And put no difference between us and them, having purified their hearts by faith. Acts 15:9 From faith alone, he says, they obtained the same gifts. This is also meant as a lesson to those (objectors); this is able to teach even them that faith only is needed, not works nor circumcision. For indeed they do not say all this only by way of apology for the Gentiles, but to teach (the Jewish believers) also to abandon the Law.

(NPNF1-11. Saint Chrysostom: Homilies on the Acts of the Apostles and the Epistle to the Romans - Christian Classics Ethereal Library) (Saint Chrysostom: Homilies on the Acts of the Apostles and the Epistle to the Romans)

I have more if you would like.
 
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BobRyan

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Just by faith, You wrote that Justification by faith alone is a scriptural doctrine but it really isn't! The word "alone" is added and one additional word makes a false doctrine because it denies other Bible truths which tell us we are also justified by Christ, by His blood, by grace and by works!

Rev 22 says that a certain group will be given the right to eat from the Tree of Life and allowed to enter into the gates of the city.
 
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Bruce Woodford

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Sound doctrine is established in scripture and tested by scripture. But that was also true when Christ was being baptized. It did not "become true - later". It was already true.

Acts 17:11 they "studied the scriptures daily to see IF those things spoken to them by the Apostle Paul - were SO" -- that is sola scriptura testing - BEFORE the NT is completed. Sola Scriptura testing did not 'become true' later. It was already true.
 
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Bruce Woodford

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Testing by scripture only involves asking 3 questions:
(1) Can this doctrine be stated in pure words of the Lord? (Ps.12:6)
(2) Can this doctrine be stated in pure words of the Lord apart from any additional words? (Prov.30:5,6)
(3) Can this doctrine be stated in words which the Holy Spirit teaches apart from any words which man's wisdom teaches? (I Cor 2:13)
 
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YeshuaFan

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The Westminster Confession Section VI on the Holy Scriptures seems to recognise two kinds of doctrines: (1) Those which are expressly set forth in scripture and (2) Those which by good and necessary consequence may be deduced from the scriptures. Does not the latter actually undermine and totally destroy the authority of scripture as our only and final authority? If one theological camp can deduce doctrines by good and necessary consequence, what is to prevent any other camp from doing the very same thing? If both can claim that their "deduced doctrines" were arrived at by "GNC", have we not then lost any hope of an objective standard by which to distinguish sound doctrines from false ones?

I have contacted dozens of Bible Schools and Seminaries across North America and asked their presidents if their school recognises and teaches their students an objective standard by which to distinguish between sound and false doctrines. NOT ONE has claimed that they recognise any objective standard for doing so!!! If that is the case, then they have no way of knowing whether ANYTHING which they believe is actually sound doctrine!!!

But I would suggest that there is only one kind of sound doctrine and that all such are expressly stated in words of scripture. I have applied 3 tests of scripture to all the doctrines which I have embraced and these three tests compelled me to reject many doctrines I'd embraced before! They are as follows:
(1) Ps.12:6 Can my doctrine be stated in the pure words of the Lord?
(2) Prov.30:5,6 Can my doctrine be stated in pure words of the Lord apart from any additional words? and
(3) I Cor.2:13 Can my doctrine be stated in words which the Holy Spirit teaches apart from any words which man's wisdom teaches?

What are your comments on the above?
The Confession is merely stating to us that the scripture alone are to be our final source and standard as to what constitutes sound doctrines and practices, and their second point was that while the term such as trinity not found in the Bible, the doctrine can be derived from there!
 
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Bruce Woodford

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Sound doctrine is established in scripture and tested by scripture. But that was also true when Christ was being baptized. It did not "become true - later". It was already true.

Acts 17:11 they "studied the scriptures daily to see IF those things spoken to them by the Apostle Paul - were SO" -- that is sola scriptura testing - BEFORE the NT is completed. Sola Scriptura testing did not 'become true' later. It was already true.

Bob, testing by scripture alone involves asking 3 questions:
(1) Can this doctrine be stated in the pure words of the Lord? (Ps.12:6)
(2) Can this doctrine be stated in pure words of the Lord apart from any additional words? (Prov.30:5,6)
(3) Can this doctrine be stated in words which the Holy Spirit teaches apart from any words which man's wisdom teaches? (I Cor.2:13)
These tests eliminate as false doctrines all doctrines like "purgatory", "Mary's perpetual virginity", "infant baptism", "justification by faith ALONE", "PRE-TRIBULATION RAPTURE", "penal substitution", a "seven year tribulation" etc etc.
 
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Bruce Woodford

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Partially correct.

The Scriptures say we are justified by faith and not the law or works. If it’s by faith and nothing else what does that tell you?

If you went into a room named “Justification” wearing a T-shirt called “faith” and no one else was in the room what wound that be? Yes you would be alone with no others in the room. Now this makes sense in the English language but not the German language. By having alone in the text Luther was not wrong in doing so for the German language. He mentioned the language demanded it.

Plus he was not the first person in Christian history to come to this conclusion.
Just because justification is by faith and is NOT by works of the law does NOT make it by faith ALONE! Faith must have an object and scripture tells us we are justified by Christ. But Christ also had to shed his blood so scripture also teaches us that we are justified by His blood. Scripture also teaches us we are justified by his grace! But that is not all... James 2 teaches us that we are justified by works! That is why James 2 clearly shows that we are NOT justified by faith ALONE!
 
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Bruce Woodford

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The phrase "by faith alone" is actually in the Bible. It occurs exactly 1 time. See James 2:24 NASB. ESV, NIV, HCB
You are absolutely right about that phrase being in the Bible! But it is there to prove that the doctrine is false! Read the whole verse (James 2:24)!
 
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Kaon

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The Westminster Confession Section VI on the Holy Scriptures seems to recognise two kinds of doctrines: (1) Those which are expressly set forth in scripture and (2) Those which by good and necessary consequence may be deduced from the scriptures. Does not the latter actually undermine and totally destroy the authority of scripture as our only and final authority? If one theological camp can deduce doctrines by good and necessary consequence, what is to prevent any other camp from doing the very same thing? If both can claim that their "deduced doctrines" were arrived at by "GNC", have we not then lost any hope of an objective standard by which to distinguish sound doctrines from false ones?

I have contacted dozens of Bible Schools and Seminaries across North America and asked their presidents if their school recognises and teaches their students an objective standard by which to distinguish between sound and false doctrines. NOT ONE has claimed that they recognise any objective standard for doing so!!! If that is the case, then they have no way of knowing whether ANYTHING which they believe is actually sound doctrine!!!

But I would suggest that there is only one kind of sound doctrine and that all such are expressly stated in words of scripture. I have applied 3 tests of scripture to all the doctrines which I have embraced and these three tests compelled me to reject many doctrines I'd embraced before! They are as follows:
(1) Ps.12:6 Can my doctrine be stated in the pure words of the Lord?
(2) Prov.30:5,6 Can my doctrine be stated in pure words of the Lord apart from any additional words? and
(3) I Cor.2:13 Can my doctrine be stated in words which the Holy Spirit teaches apart from any words which man's wisdom teaches?

What are your comments on the above?

No human can do this for you, only the Holy Spirit and [the Word of] God

You can try to find doctrine, but you will be tossed around and ultimately lost.
 
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Bruce Woodford

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The Confession is merely stating to us that the scripture alone are to be our final source and standard as to what constitutes sound doctrines and practices, and their second point was that while the term such as trinity not found in the Bible, the doctrine can be derived from there!
That is the whole problem! "Trinity" is NOT in the Bible! Nor is the false idea that there are "three persons" in the Godhead! Scripture does speak of the person of Christ, but never teaches that the Father or the Holy Spirit are "persons"! God is a SPIRIT.
If we allow that any doctrine not stated in words of scripture is actually a sound doctrine, we have no objective standard by which to distinguish between sound and false doctrines!
Just as the "Trinity" is deduced from scripture, so is "purgatory", "infant baptism", "pre-tribulation rapture" and hundred of other false doctrines! If you accept the first as a sound doctrine, you have no defence against all the rest that are arrived at in the very same manner!
 
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Bruce Woodford

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No human can do this for you, only the Holy Spirit and [the Word of] God

You can try to find doctrine, but you will be tossed around and ultimately lost.

Not so! Every sound doctrine is stated in the very words of scripture. And no false doctrine can be stated in words of scripture! (i.e. "purgatory", "infant baptism", "substitutionary atonement", "pre-tribulation rapture" etc etc!
 
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YeshuaFan

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Just because justification is by faith and is NOT by works of the law does NOT make it by faith ALONE! Faith must have an object and scripture tells us we are justified by Christ. But Christ also had to shed his blood so scripture also teaches us that we are justified by His blood. Scripture also teaches us we are justified by his grace! But that is not all... James 2 teaches us that we are justified by works! That is why James 2 clearly shows that we are NOT justified by faith ALONE!
God works are the evidence that we have been saved by His grace, a by product of the new life in Christ, but NOT part of salvation itself!
 
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YeshuaFan

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That is the whole problem! "Trinity" is NOT in the Bible! Nor is the false idea that there are "three persons" in the Godhead! Scripture does speak of the person of Christ, but never teaches that the Father or the Holy Spirit are "persons"! God is a SPIRIT.
If we allow that any doctrine not stated in words of scripture is actually a sound doctrine, we have no objective standard by which to distinguish between sound and false doctrines!
Just as the "Trinity" is deduced from scripture, so is "purgatory", "infant baptism", "pre-tribulation rapture" and hundred of other false doctrines! If you accept the first as a sound doctrine, you have no defence against all the rest that are arrived at in the very same manner!
The scriptures declare all 3 of them as being God.... Father, Jesus, and Holy Spirit...
 
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Kaon

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Not so! Every sound doctrine is stated in the very words of scripture. And no false doctrine can be stated in words of scripture! (i.e. "purgatory", "infant baptism", "substitutionary atonement", "pre-tribulation rapture" etc etc!

No human can do for you what the Word of God Himself (not a canonical text, or human preacher/priest/minister) can do for you - especially through the Comforter He gave us.

The very reason we have denomination (division) is because too many humans are telling other humans how to have a relationship with a spirit. The relationship is unique, and between each human - just like parents have unique, individual relationships with each child.
 
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Kaon

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The Most High God already promised us He would write His Laws and Statutes on our hearts so much so that we would not need anything else. He also told us He would circumcise our hearts so that there would be a sensitivity toward Him (i.e. hearing Him and seeing Him - even listening to Him) instead of an ignorance. This means one can grow up alone and still have a real, loving relationship with the Most High God. He has promised this.

No humans are necessary for a relationship between you and the Most High God.
 
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BobRyan

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Just by faith, You wrote that Justification by faith alone is a scriptural doctrine but it really isn't! The word "alone" is added and one additional word makes a false doctrine because it denies other Bible truths which tell us we are also justified by Christ, by His blood, by grace and by works!

The phrase "by faith alone" is actually in the Bible. It occurs exactly 1 time. See James 2:24 NASB. ESV, NIV, HCB

You are absolutely right about that phrase being in the Bible! But it is there to prove that the doctrine is false! Read the whole verse (James 2:24)!

Indeed - that's the point for the case of future justification of the saints at the judgment seat of Christ. For as Christ said in Matthew 7 "by their fruits you shall know them".

Even the thief on the cross (converted at the 11th hour so to speak) had the "works" of the public confession of Christ.

Regarding that future justification of the saints on the future day of judgment
Rom 2:13 "it is not the hearers of the law that are just before God but the doers of the LAW WILL be justified"


However when it comes to past-tense justification.


We are "justified by faith apart from works of the law" Romans 3:28 -

Rom 3
19 Now we know that whatever the law says, it says to those who are under the law, that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God. 20 Therefore by the deeds of the law no flesh will be justified in His sight, for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
 
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