Baptized in the Spirit and speaking in tongues?

swordsman1

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The spiritual gifts are explained in detail in 1 Corinthians 12:8-10 (AMP)
The day of Pentecost is mentioned in Acts 2:1-4. This is when the holy spirit came upon 3000 people.
Meaning they were Baptised in the Holy Spirit.

Those who accepted his message were Baptised, and about three thousand were added to their number that day. They devoted themselves to the apostles' teaching and to the fellowship, to the breaking of bread(including the Lord's supper) and to prayer. (Acts 2:41-42) AMP

And there is no hint whatsoever that any of those 3000 spoke in tongues.
 
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Many Christian groups are mistaken in their beliefs and practices. That doesn't make them false Christians.
  • Salvation Army are mistaken in not practicing baptism or communion.
  • Lutherans are mistaken in over-emphasizing the importance of baptism.
  • 7th Day folks are mistaken in their view of the Sabbath.
  • Anglicans are mistaken in baptizing babies.
  • EO are mistaken in emphasizing church tradition.
  • Pentecostals and charismatics are mistaken in thinking they speak in NT tongues.
Yep! Everyone is mistaken in some way, except you and me, and I think you are not too sure about me! ^_^^_^^_^^_^^_^^_^
 
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liberty of conscience

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7th Day folks are mistaken in their view of the Sabbath.

Really? Do we need such Ad hominem here? If you would like to discuss this, message me, otherwise please stay with the material of the OP.
 
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And there is no hint whatsoever that any of those 3000 spoke in tongues.
You are right. Luke mentions just that they turned to Christ. But there is always room for an educated guess! :)
 
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Really? Do we need such Ad hominem here? If you would like to discuss this, message me, otherwise please stay with the material of the OP.
Don't sweat it buddy. Swordsman1 and I have had many enjoyable years of debating the issue ad infinitum. We are totally in disagreement about tongues and always have been. But I have the greatest respect for him and when he appears on a thread, I welcome his input.
 
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Are you saying that im not complete unless i speak in tongues?
Absolutely not! I know many spirit filled people who have not experienced the gift of tongues! I also have been in fellowships where people desperately want the gift so they have gone forward for prayer many times to receive and nothing happens. God gives the gifts in His time to whom he wants and when he wants! It may not be a gift he wants you to have! Walk in the gifts he has given you and if God gives you the gift at some point in your life Praise Him and if he doesn't, Praise Him. If you are in a fellowship that teaches you are not complete till you speak in tongues find one that does not believe that! Once you give up your struggle God may just give you the gift. It is His business, not yours! I know a man who has the gift and I was told he was drunker then a skunk in the middle of the day in the Walmart parking lot! Speaking in tongues does not make you more righteous.
God bless! I hope this helps!
 
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Many Christian groups are mistaken in their beliefs and practices. That doesn't make them false Christians.
  • Salvation Army are mistaken in not practicing baptism or communion.
  • Lutherans are mistaken in over-emphasizing the importance of baptism.
  • 7th Day folks are mistaken in their view of the Sabbath.
  • Anglicans are mistaken in baptizing babies.
  • EO are mistaken in emphasizing church tradition.
  • Pentecostals and charismatics are mistaken in thinking they speak in NT tongues.
Well, actually, the 7th Day folks are following the Scripture. The first Jewish Christians observed the Sabbath and went to either the Synagogue or the Temple. Paul went to synagogue services on a regular basis. The only reason why Christians in Jerusalem at least had their own fellowship meetings on "the first day of the week", which was probably Sunday was that they didn't want to clash with the Jewish Sabbath on which they observed. I don't know if there are any other references in the New Testament where Sunday was the normal day of Christian worship.

It seems that when the Church was formalized, Sunday became that formal day of worship and it became the Christian "sabbath:. In fact, many fundamentalist Christians called Sunday, "The Sabbath Day". But if we want to be absolutely true to the Scripture, as we do with quoting other OT Scriptures, Saturday worship is just as acceptable as Sunday worship.

Actually, as the truth is known, I worship God every day and night (when I get insomnia), and when I go to my Presbyterian church on Sunday morning, I have to sit like a wooden Indian observing the performance at the front, unless I am actually leading worship or preaching. So, I don't know whether sitting passively like that is actually worshiping or not.

Pentecostals do a lot of actual worshiping in their services, and they have a great time doing it. But has for me, I am a little scared of making a religious display in public, so I would rather go to an isolated beach or somewhere where there is no one around and then I can wave my arms, sing the songs, dance, yell "Yahoo!" and praise the Lord as much as I want, because He is the only one witnessing it. To me, that is true, heart-felt worship. And when I used to live in an area of the country where there were long, wide isolated coastal beaches handy, I used to go out there and worship - on Saturdays!!!
 
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Absolutely not! I know many spirit filled people who have not experienced the gift of tongues! I also have been in fellowships where people desperately want the gift so they have gone forward for prayer many times to receive and nothing happens. God gives the gifts in His time to whom he wants and when he wants! It may not be a gift he wants you to have! Walk in the gifts he has given you and if God gives you the gift at some point in your life Praise Him and if he doesn't, Praise Him. If you are in a fellowship that teaches you are not complete till you speak in tongues find one that does not believe that! Once you give up your struggle God may just give you the gift. It is His business, not yours! I know a man who has the gift and I was told he was drunker then a skunk in the middle of the day in the Walmart parking lot! Speaking in tongues does not make you more righteous.
God bless! I hope this helps!
You are correct.
But I will say that faith is a doing word. Waiting for God to do it to you is not faith. Faith is something a person does in relation to what they believe. If they believe that God somehow takes them over and does it to them and they have to wait for them to do it, they will never receive it, because faith is not passive, it is active.
You didn't wait passively for God to do salvation to you. You followed the four steps of faith to receive Christ, didn't you? You believed that you had to pray a sinner's prayer, acknowledging your sinfulness, your acceptance that Jesus died for you on the cross, and then received Christ into your heart. Then you started studying the Bible, going to church, confessing your sins, turning away from sin to holiness, spending time in prayer. Why? You were acting out your faith. If you sat passively and waited for God to do it all for you, you would still be dead in your sins, because you did nothing.
So, there are steps of faith to receive the gift of tongues, or any other gift of the Holy Spirit.
1. You have to believe it's God's will for you. If a person has decided it is not God's will for them, they will never receive it!
2. You must ask for it. That is the way we receive things from God. James says that we have not because we ask not. So many people have not received a spiritual gift because they have never asked for it.
3. You must receive it. He who asks, receives. God hands it out to you. You must reach out and say, "I receive the gift". At this point you have the gift.
4. You activate your faith by doing what you couldn't do before. That takes effort. If it is tongues, you have to start deliberately speaking. God is not going to take over your mouth, lips and tongue. That is not faith. Faith is what YOU do, and God honours it by releasing the Spirit to flow out of you.

So, if a person never receives a spiritual gift, it is not God's fault, it is the person's unbelief, because they did not use their faith, and without faith it is impossible to please God. Faith is belief in action. That's what James says when he says that if a person says he has faith, he must be able to produce the "works". In other words James wants to see the actions that show the person has faith.
 
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What many miss is, God always provided the Holy Spirit through the word. He provided the gift through tongues. Both in the two outpourings and by tongues given to others through the apostles' hands. And when scripture became complete, he provides the Holy Spirit through the words of scripture. This is a thread that runs throughout the NT.
I was taught for years that some of the gifts art no longer around today because now we have the Bible. I am not a jump the pews charismatic. What I experienced in my prayer closet after two weeks in fasting and prayer was out side my Bible taught theological box! At that point my box blew apart!

Eight months ago we heard a awesome testimony from a man who felt the call of God at the age of 19. This was shared by in a Free Methodist church I won't go into detail but long testimony short. He is now 88 and not in good health. He was walking with the Lord in middle of his ministry. He was diagnosed with polio. Back then you were quarantined. He cried out to God for two weeks. The main question was why. He finally surrendered to God. What ever your will. The next day he woke up healed. For the next three years he had the gift of healing! I was taught for many years this gift was not for today because now we have the written Word! He laid hands on people and they were healed. It was for a season. He told me he did not even realize it had gone. I do not believe that there is anything that happened in the early church that cannot happen today. I believe the greater things that Jesus talked about will be seen soon!
What many miss is, God always provided the Holy Spirit through the word. He provided the gift through tongues. Both in the two outpourings and by tongues given to others through the apostles' hands. And when scripture became complete, he provides the Holy Spirit through the words of scripture. This is a thread that runs throughout the NT.
 
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You are correct.
But I will say that faith is a doing word. Waiting for God to do it to you is not faith. Faith is something a person does in relation to what they believe. If they believe that God somehow takes them over and does it to them and they have to wait for them to do it, they will never receive it, because faith is not passive, it is active.
You didn't wait passively for God to do salvation to you. You followed the four steps of faith to receive Christ, didn't you? You believed that you had to pray a sinner's prayer, acknowledging your sinfulness, your acceptance that Jesus died for you on the cross, and then received Christ into your heart. Then you started studying the Bible, going to church, confessing your sins, turning away from sin to holiness, spending time in prayer. Why? You were acting out your faith. If you sat passively and waited for God to do it all for you, you would still be dead in your sins, because you did nothing.
So, there are steps of faith to receive the gift of tongues, or any other gift of the Holy Spirit.
1. You have to believe it's God's will for you. If a person has decided it is not God's will for them, they will never receive it!
2. You must ask for it. That is the way we receive things from God. James says that we have not because we ask not. So many people have not received a spiritual gift because they have never asked for it.
3. You must receive it. He who asks, receives. God hands it out to you. You must reach out and say, "I receive the gift". At this point you have the gift.
4. You activate your faith by doing what you couldn't do before. That takes effort. If it is tongues, you have to start deliberately speaking. God is not going to take over your mouth, lips and tongue. That is not faith. Faith is what YOU do, and God honours it by releasing the Spirit to flow out of you.

So, if a person never receives a spiritual gift, it is not God's fault, it is the person's unbelief, because they did not use their faith, and without faith it is impossible to please God. Faith is belief in action. That's what James says when he says that if a person says he has faith, he must be able to produce the "works". In other words James wants to see the actions that show the person has faith.
When I received my prayer language all I was doing was seeking God! Not looking for it or speaking something to receive it! Thanks for your post.
 
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When I received my prayer language all I was doing was seeking God! Not looking for it or speaking something to receive it! Thanks for your post.
I would say that in order for you to continue speaking and praying in tongues after the first burst, you had control over when and where you prayed it, and so, without realising it, you were acting out your faith every time you decided you wanted to pray in tongues, had the sounds in your head and spoke them out to the Lord.
 
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I would say that in order for you to continue speaking and praying in tongues after the first burst, you had control over when and where you prayed it, and so, without realising it, you were acting out your faith every time you decided you wanted to pray in tongues, had the sounds in your head and spoke them out to the Lord.
With all do respect what you just posted is your opinion. You obviously have a lot of experience with the subject. I don't think you can find scripture to back you up. I am not saying you are wrong. I will always say Truth is Truth no matter what I believe!
 
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brinny

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You are correct.
But I will say that faith is a doing word. Waiting for God to do it to you is not faith. Faith is something a person does in relation to what they believe. If they believe that God somehow takes them over and does it to them and they have to wait for them to do it, they will never receive it, because faith is not passive, it is active.
You didn't wait passively for God to do salvation to you. You followed the four steps of faith to receive Christ, didn't you? You believed that you had to pray a sinner's prayer, acknowledging your sinfulness, your acceptance that Jesus died for you on the cross, and then received Christ into your heart. Then you started studying the Bible, going to church, confessing your sins, turning away from sin to holiness, spending time in prayer. Why? You were acting out your faith. If you sat passively and waited for God to do it all for you, you would still be dead in your sins, because you did nothing.
So, there are steps of faith to receive the gift of tongues, or any other gift of the Holy Spirit.
1. You have to believe it's God's will for you. If a person has decided it is not God's will for them, they will never receive it!
2. You must ask for it. That is the way we receive things from God. James says that we have not because we ask not. So many people have not received a spiritual gift because they have never asked for it.
3. You must receive it. He who asks, receives. God hands it out to you. You must reach out and say, "I receive the gift". At this point you have the gift.
4. You activate your faith by doing what you couldn't do before. That takes effort. If it is tongues, you have to start deliberately speaking. God is not going to take over your mouth, lips and tongue. That is not faith. Faith is what YOU do, and God honours it by releasing the Spirit to flow out of you.

So, if a person never receives a spiritual gift, it is not God's fault, it is the person's unbelief, because they did not use their faith, and without faith it is impossible to please God. Faith is belief in action. That's what James says when he says that if a person says he has faith, he must be able to produce the "works". In other words James wants to see the actions that show the person has faith.
So, if a person never receives a spiritual gift, it is not God's fault, it is the person's unbelief,
Pardon me?
 
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swordsman1

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So, there are steps of faith to receive the gift of tongues, or any other gift of the Holy Spirit.
1. You have to believe it's God's will for you. If a person has decided it is not God's will for them, they will never receive it!
2. You must ask for it. That is the way we receive things from God. James says that we have not because we ask not. So many people have not received a spiritual gift because they have never asked for it.
3. You must receive it. He who asks, receives. God hands it out to you. You must reach out and say, "I receive the gift". At this point you have the gift.
4. You activate your faith by doing what you couldn't do before. That takes effort. If it is tongues, you have to start deliberately speaking. God is not going to take over your mouth, lips and tongue. That is not faith. Faith is what YOU do, and God honours it by releasing the Spirit to flow out of you.

So, if a person never receives a spiritual gift, it is not God's fault, it is the person's unbelief, because they did not use their faith, and without faith it is impossible to please God. Faith is belief in action. That's what James says when he says that if a person says he has faith, he must be able to produce the "works". In other words James wants to see the actions that show the person has faith.

Where in scripture does it say asking for a gift and having sufficient faith to receive it is a necessary requirement for receiving that gift? Did the disciples at Pentecost ask for the gift of tongues and then muster up enough faith before they received it? No, they never even knew such a thing existed! It simply happened. Ditto Cornelius. Ditto John's disciples. The only condition I can see for receiving a gift is that it must be the sovereign will of the Spirit (1 Cor 12:11).

Did Martin Luther also lack faith, or John Calvin, or Jonathan Edwards, or John Wesley, or Charles Spurgeon, or Billy Graham?
 
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I was taught for years that some of the gifts art no longer around today because now we have the Bible. I am not a jump the pews charismatic. What I experienced in my prayer closet after two weeks in fasting and prayer was out side my Bible taught theological box! At that point my box blew apart!

Eight months ago we heard a awesome testimony from a man who felt the call of God at the age of 19. This was shared by in a Free Methodist church I won't go into detail but long testimony short. He is now 88 and not in good health. He was walking with the Lord in middle of his ministry. He was diagnosed with polio. Back then you were quarantined. He cried out to God for two weeks. The main question was why. He finally surrendered to God. What ever your will. The next day he woke up healed. For the next three years he had the gift of healing! I was taught for many years this gift was not for today because now we have the written Word! He laid hands on people and they were healed. It was for a season. He told me he did not even realize it had gone. I do not believe that there is anything that happened in the early church that cannot happen today. I believe the greater things that Jesus talked about will be seen soon!
Obviously God heals today. But we must make sure the experience passes the scripture test. Tongues does not pass this test for several reasons. But the important part is in faith comes from hearing God's word. And head belief based on external stimuli is not biblical faith. Jesus avoided people who believed in him based on the miracles they saw.
 
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Absolutely! If a person is going to say that those who speak in tongues are doing so falsely, they have to be consistent with all the Scripture that describes false people. False people are those who walk in the flesh, hating their brothers and sisters, involved in sexual immorality, contentious and argumentative, jealous, envious, living riotously, haters of God, rebellious against authority, treading underfoot the cross of Christ, full of pride, whose god is their belly, disrespecting the body and blood of the Lord, worshiping idols and encouraging others to do so.

Frankly, I have never met anyone who prays or speaks in tongues who can fit the description above. I have found that, although they have faults just like everyone else, and have battles with the flesh just like all of us, their hearts have been toward Jesus, encouraged others to have faith and trust in Him, and have sought holiness with all their hearts.

If people are going to accuse others of being false, they need to provide evidence that they are behaving in all the ways false hypocrites do, not just single tongues out and say that a person is totally false and a religious hypocrite just because they do speak in tongues.
No,this does not follow. A person might make believe they are engaged in a secret prayer tongue just like the early church and yet be mistaken.
A little boy might dream of being a police officer or a superhero but in reality he is a day dreaming little boy engaged in a fantasy.
There is virtually no difference between making rhyming noises and praying vain repetitive prayers using a rosary bead.
Neither one is effectual. It does not mean the person is wicked necessarily.
They are both perhaps sincere but nevertheless mistaken.
 
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Yes, I know 'ICONO', it is "optimistic". It is more than that even. It is a 'lost' cause.
I have heard many persons admit they never really spoke in tongues when they made those noises, you know ....ronda mo shondi,komo mo shiki...etc, I think I have heard this one most often,lol.
 
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You are correct.
But I will say that faith is a doing word. Waiting for God to do it to you is not faith. Faith is something a person does in relation to what they believe. If they believe that God somehow takes them over and does it to them and they have to wait for them to do it, they will never receive it, because faith is not passive, it is active.
You didn't wait passively for God to do salvation to you. You followed the four steps of faith to receive Christ, didn't you? You believed that you had to pray a sinner's prayer, acknowledging your sinfulness, your acceptance that Jesus died for you on the cross, and then received Christ into your heart. Then you started studying the Bible, going to church, confessing your sins, turning away from sin to holiness, spending time in prayer. Why? You were acting out your faith. If you sat passively and waited for God to do it all for you, you would still be dead in your sins, because you did nothing.
So, there are steps of faith to receive the gift of tongues, or any other gift of the Holy Spirit.
1. You have to believe it's God's will for you. If a person has decided it is not God's will for them, they will never receive it!
2. You must ask for it. That is the way we receive things from God. James says that we have not because we ask not. So many people have not received a spiritual gift because they have never asked for it.
3. You must receive it. He who asks, receives. God hands it out to you. You must reach out and say, "I receive the gift". At this point you have the gift.
4. You activate your faith by doing what you couldn't do before. That takes effort. If it is tongues, you have to start deliberately speaking. God is not going to take over your mouth, lips and tongue. That is not faith. Faith is what YOU do, and God honours it by releasing the Spirit to flow out of you.

So, if a person never receives a spiritual gift, it is not God's fault, it is the person's unbelief, because they did not use their faith, and without faith it is impossible to please God. Faith is belief in action. That's what James says when he says that if a person says he has faith, he must be able to produce the "works". In other words James wants to see the actions that show the person has faith.
Of course all of this is falsehood. None of this is taught in scripture.
 
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I have heard many persons admit they never really spoke in tongues when they made those noises, you know ....ronda mo shondi,komo mo shiki...etc, I think I have heard this one most often,lol.

i agree. Even the bishop of my former church called them out on it, and he was a proponent of "speaking in tongues".
 
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