One of the most controversial issues, is the DAY OF WORSHIP

ace of hearts said:

Israel is referred to as God's wife. The Bride (church) is always referred to as belonging to Jesus. The two are never interchanged in Scripture.

Click to expand...

Jesus is by nature, Deity, God; John 1. Jesus, is identified by Hosea, & Matthew, as the true Israel.

Act_7:38 This is he, that was in the church (εκκλησια) in the wilderness with the angel which spake to him in the mount Sina, and with our fathers: who received the lively oracles to give unto us:

Jesus was the one who led them who came out of Egypt through the wilderness.

JohnB445 said:

Where can I find an undeniable fact that it's either optional or that we are meant to still keep it?

Click to expand...

A few helpful texts, John 14:15; Exodus 20:6; Hebrews 3-4; Isaiah 56:1-8; John 10:16 and the book of Acts, see Acts 4:24, 14:15-16, 17:30.

JohnB445 said:

I am still confused on this controversy, and on top of that even if the 7th day is the day of worship

Click to expand...

Helpful texts, James 1:5.

Actually, the thread title, and the last statement are not an accurate representation. I do not mean to say you did this purposefully. Read Exodus 20:8-11. How many days of the week does it cover?

All days are for worship of God. Not all days of the week are for rest from common/profane labour/work. Not all days are sanctified and made holy by God.

liberty of conscience said:

May I ask, who specifically "told" this thing to you, and what was their background?

Click to expand...

I'm happy that post was liked by someone with the screen name "liberty of conscience". Nice to meet you and welcome to the forums.

Willie T said:

I guess they think He got tired.

Click to expand...

Not at all, Isaiah 40:28.

God stopped speaking (creating; Psa. 33:9) creation. And God said (Gen. 1), ... finished (Gen. 2), ... He ended His work (the 6th day) ... He rested on the seventh day ... and enjoyed (was 'refreshed' in; iow, a job well done) the work He had made.

Just as Jesus at Calvary. "It is finished" (ending of the 6th day), speaking to His Father, in fulfillment of His vows (Psa. 116:14,18), His side of the Eternal Covenant (Mal. 2:5) made in eternity (Psa. 61:5, 2:8). "Into thy hands ..." and then, He stopped speaking, entering into His rest.

Soyeong said:

I'm happy that post was liked by someone with the screen name "liberty of conscience". Nice to meet you and welcome to the forums.

Click to expand...

It was truly worth the "like", well written/said. Hi. (smiles & waves).

ace of hearts said:

To which I respond with we're no under (obligated) to that covenant (law).

Click to expand...

According to Romans 3:31; Jeremiah 31:33, the Ten Commandments are not the old covenant.

What text/s do you refer to? I know of no text in scripture which teaches that the Ten Commandments are the old covenant.

bekkilyn said:

If Mormons are not Christian, then why would they be led by the same spirit as a Christian? So either you are claiming that I am also not Christian and thus led by the Mormon or some other spirit, or you are claiming that there is no difference between the Holy Spirit and non-Christian spirits.

Jesus did not come to earth to teach us how to be saved by doing a better job at observing the law.

A Christian is not breaking the law, so there is no unrepentant sin.

Click to expand...

The Holy Spirit speaks to believer and unbeliever. It is only through the Hoy Spirit that we come to Jesus at all. I am saying what the bible says--
1Jn_4:1 Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.
Christians can get very good at ignoring the calling of the Holy Spirit. Happens a lot, often over little things--the Spirit will tell you to not do something or d something and we ignore. That is what the Mormons have done--ignored the warnings---God will not force anyone to do anything. Christians who think they are following Christ can be I for a big surprise.

Mat 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
Mat 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
Mat 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
Build Your House on the Rock
Mat 7:24 Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:
This is not going to be said to unbelievers---this is going to be said to obvious believers for they wee doing all this in His name. You can not just hear--you also have to do.

ace of hearts said:

Ex 12:48 is a law (commandment) required to participate in that covenant.

Click to expand...

That is the covenant that would be replaced--which Jesus did at the cross. The 10 are not part of that covenant.

liberty of conscience said:

According to Romans 3:31; Jeremiah 31:33, the Ten Commandments are not the old covenant.

What text/s do you refer to? I know of no text in scripture which teaches that the Ten Commandments are the old covenant.

Click to expand...

Exodus 34:28
And he was there with the LORD forty days and forty nights; he did neither eat bread, nor drink water. And he wrote upon the tables the words of the covenant, the ten commandments.

bekkilyn said:

Which is a roundabout way of stating salvation by works (law). It's like you receive a coin every time you observe the old covenant sabbath, and then can use it in the salvation vending machine and out pops a ticket to heaven! But if you don't observe the old covenant sabbath, then you get no coins to use in the salvation machine, so no golden tickets!

Click to expand...

Not trying to be rude---that's ridiculous! You seem to be simply going out of your way to be obtuse!
We are saved by grace---we keep the commandments our of love for God.
we keep them because we are saved, not to be saved. If you can't fathom that--sorry.
Come judgment day---I'd rather have God tell, me---"Well, you really didn't have to keep that fourth one."---instead of--"What part of "remember" didn't you understand?"

I suppose every time you don't steal, commit murder, commit adultry or lie you are dropping coins into your salvation machine.

Mat 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
Mat 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
Mat 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

ace of hearts said:

This in no way shows how adultery can be committed within the bounds of marriage as I requested.

Click to expand...

At this point---all I can say is "Are you must be trolling??"---You don't know how adultery in a marriage is possible??? Ask any 10 year old. Nowadays---they are all pretty well acquainted with it.

klutedavid said:

Exodus 34:28
And he was there with the LORD forty days and forty nights; he did neither eat bread, nor drink water. And he wrote upon the tables the words of the covenant, the ten commandments.

Click to expand...

You are taking that out of context-----God wrote the 10 again--Exo 34:1 And the LORD said unto Moses, Hew thee two tables of stone like unto the first: and I will write upon these tables the words that were in the first tables, which thou brakest.

mmksparbud said:

You are taking that out of context-----God wrote the 10 again--Exo 34:1 And the LORD said unto Moses, Hew thee two tables of stone like unto the first: and I will write upon these tables the words that were in the first tables, which thou brakest.

Click to expand...

Deuteronomy 4:13
And he declared unto you his covenant, which he commanded you to perform, even ten commandments; and he wrote them upon two tables of stone.

Deuteronomy 9:9-11
When I was gone up into the mount to receive the tables of stone, even the tables of the covenant which the LORD made with you.

mmksparbud said:

Not trying to be rude---that's ridiculous! You seem to be simply going out of your way to be obtuse!
We are saved by grace---we keep the commandments our of love for God.
we keep them because we are saved, not to be saved. If you can't fathom that--sorry.
Come judgment day---I'd rather have God tell, me---"Well, you really didn't have to keep that fourth one."---instead of--"What part of "remember" didn't you understand?"

I suppose every time you don't steal, commit murder, commit adultry or lie you are dropping coins into your salvation machine.

Mat 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
Mat 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
Mat 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Click to expand...

You can futilely claim "saved by grace" all you would like, but if the result is that you are not saved due to not following a law, then it is *not* saved by grace, but saved by law.

I don't murder because I have no inclination to murder. I don't have to *try* not to murder anyone. Not because of *me*, mind you, or because I'm trying my best to follow some commandment to get brownie points through my own great success at not murdering anyone, but because of him who works within me.

I'm not saved because of anything I do, but because of what *he* (Jesus) has done.

mmksparbud said:

The Holy Spirit speaks to believer and unbeliever. It is only through the Hoy Spirit that we come to Jesus at all. I am saying what the bible says--
1Jn_4:1 Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.
Christians can get very good at ignoring the calling of the Holy Spirit. Happens a lot, often over little things--the Spirit will tell you to not do something or d something and we ignore. That is what the Mormons have done--ignored the warnings---God will not force anyone to do anything. Christians who think they are following Christ can be I for a big surprise.

Mat 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
Mat 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
Mat 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
Build Your House on the Rock
Mat 7:24 Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:
This is not going to be said to unbelievers---this is going to be said to obvious believers for they wee doing all this in His name. You can not just hear--you also have to do.

Click to expand...

You're being completely contradictory. First in order to deny the importance of the Spirit (vs. law) by bringing up something about Mormons and how the Spirit has apparently led them astray, but now you're saying that the problem is that they aren't listening to the Spirit at all. So the Mormons (and all the actual Christians who disagree with you concerning the law) are both following the Spirit too much *and* also not following the Spirit, whichever one seems to be convenient to the argument at the time.

bekkilyn said:

You can futilely claim "saved by grace" all you would like, but if the result is that you are not saved due to not following a law, then it is *not* saved by grace, but saved by law.

I don't murder because I have no inclination to murder. I don't have to *try* not to murder anyone. Not because of *me*, mind you, or because I'm trying my best to follow some commandment to get brownie points through my own great success at not murdering anyone, but because of him who works within me.

I'm not saved because of anything I do, but because of what *he* (Jesus) has done.

Click to expand...

bekkilyn said:

You're being completely contradictory. First in order to deny the importance of the Spirit (vs. law) by bringing up something about Mormons and how the Spirit has apparently led them astray, but now you're saying that the problem is that they aren't listening to the Spirit at all. So the Mormons (and all the actual Christians who disagree with you concerning the law) are both following the Spirit too much *and* also not following the Spirit, whichever one seems to be convenient to the argument at the time.

Click to expand...

OK---You guys seem to just want to disagree with whatever an SDA says regardless of what is said---you are twisting things around. I never said the Holy Spirit led the Mormons astray--the Holy Spirit doesn't do that. I say we are saved by grace and you say I said we are saved by works because I choose to follow what the bible says instead of what the Catholic church instituted. I don't expect you to understand--we can't even agree on creation. You church teaches evolution, I believe in a 6 day creation. We are polar opposites.
I don't expect others to think as I do---I know they don't! To say you are a "Sabbatarian" is bad enough, add SDA to your profile and its a sure thing no one is going to agree with you!
OK--we are getting nowhere--I will leave it at this---show me the verse that states Jesus said to change Sabbath to Sunday. That is all I am asking for. Other than that---nothing left to say. You can't seem to understand the concept of Jesus working through us with His love to keep all His ways (not just what is convenient for us) so there is no sense in continuing to try. You go by your Holy Spirit and I will go with mine and soon enough we will both find out. God bless---I won't hold my breath waiting for that verse---no one has ever found it.

klutedavid said:

Exodus 34:28
And he was there with the LORD forty days and forty nights; he did neither eat bread, nor drink water. And he wrote upon the tables the words of the covenant, the ten commandments.

Click to expand...

Yes, as I said the Ten Commandments are God's "my covenant" (Exodus 19:5), but they are not called the 'old covenant', which Hebrews 8:6-9 identifies as those words in Exodus 19:8, "All that the LORD hath spoken we will do.", being the "promises" of "them" which were at "fault".

The Ten Commandments are never faulty. They are "sure", and stand fast for ever and ever (Psalms 111:7, 119:44).

I said there are many "covenants" in scripture, and that the issue is men applying their own definitions upon each.

You are eisigetically reading into the text of Exodus 34:28 'old covenant', but the context and words are not present to support that, at all.

Also, this whole route is merely to confuse the issue of the sabbath of God. Instead of speaking about the 7th Day, the 4th Commandment, the issue is suddenly bait and switched to 'covenants'. The 7th Day the sabbath of the LORD thy God, is from Genesis 2:1-3, before there ever was an 'old covenant' (Exodus 19:8; Hebrews 8:6-9) to speak of. It, the 7th day the sabbath (rest) of the LORD God, was made for man (Adam, 1st and 2nd/last), Mark 2:27-28 (see also Ecclesiastes 12:13-14; 'whole duty of man (Adam)').

klutedavid said:

Deuteronomy 4:13
And he declared unto you his covenant, which he commanded you to perform, even ten commandments; and he wrote them upon two tables of stone.

Deuteronomy 9:9-11
When I was gone up into the mount to receive the tables of stone, even the tables of the covenant which the LORD made with you.

Click to expand...

Indeed, "His covenant" (Deuteronomy 4:13) and God's "my covenant" (Exodus 19:5) is not ever the 'old covenant' in all of scripture. The 'old covenant' is identified clearly in Hebrews 9:6-9, which points to Exodus 19:8, "All that the LORD hath spoken we will do.".

God came with terms, "If ...", "... then ..."

The people agreed (Exodus 19:8).

Covenant (old) struck between God and man, with Mediator Moses.

Yet when God spake the Ten Commandments aloud, it was directly, and no Mediator.

There are 2 (two) covenants in Exodus 19.

[1] God's covenant ("His covenant", and "my covenant") - the Ten Commandments (which is eternal, everlasting) (Exodus 19:5), and this existed between the Father and Son in eternity.

Psa_89:34 My covenant will I not break, nor alter the thing that is gone out of my lips.

[2] the 'old covenant', which is the agreement between God and the people through their promises, (Exodus 19:8 (also Exodus 24); Hebrews 8:6-9, "fault", "promises", "them")

Again, you are eisegetically reading into Deuteronomy 4:13 and Deuteronomy 9:9-11 your own personal definition when you read "covenant".

The Ten Commandments, the Law of God, His Covenant, cannot be and are never called in scripture, the 'old covenant', see Romans 3:31; Jeremiah 31:33 (cited in Hebrews 8).

bekkilyn said:

...I don't murder because I have no inclination to murder. ...

Click to expand...

Sabbath breaking (Exodus 20:8-11) is murder, self-murder, since the body of mankind was made to rest the 7th day. It is built into the human temple system. James 2:10.

It is also bearing false witness, taking the name of the Lord in vain, having an idol of self-righteousness (a law of 'right' doing apart from God's law of right-doing (Exodus 20:1-17), it is theft of time, relationship, coveting the time for personal unholy/common uses, and so on.

It would be akin to continue driving without oil in the engine. The heart/mind/body will break down, the relationship to the Creator will break down.

mmksparbud said:

OK---You guys seem to just want to disagree with whatever an SDA says regardless of what is said---you are twisting things around. I never said the Holy Spirit led the Mormons astray--the Holy Spirit doesn't do that. I say we are saved by grace and you say I said we are saved by works because I choose to follow what the bible says instead of what the Catholic church instituted. I don't expect you to understand--we can't even agree on creation. You church teaches evolution, I believe in a 6 day creation. We are polar opposites.
I don't expect others to think as I do---I know they don't! To say you are a "Sabbatarian" is bad enough, add SDA to your profile and its a sure thing no one is going to agree with you!
OK--we are getting nowhere--I will leave it at this---show me the verse that states Jesus said to change Sabbath to Sunday. That is all I am asking for. Other than that---nothing left to say. You can't seem to understand the concept of Jesus working through us with His love to keep all His ways (not just what is convenient for us) so there is no sense in continuing to try. You go by your Holy Spirit and I will go with mine and soon enough we will both find out. God bless---I won't hold my breath waiting for that verse---no one has ever found it.

Click to expand...

If you believe you are being singled out because some people don't agree with what you say and because you are a member of the SDA church why do you bother to respond?

I would just let it go and move onto the next topic.