Speaking and praying in tongues? Real or fake?

GoldenKingGaze said:

I suppose Paul writing Romans... would have had words of knowledge and interpretations of tongues... but also the charism, the oil, the great revelation of God, and the still small voice. Christ in his heart guiding him.

I have heard tongues interpreted about 15 times.

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blackhead said:

I believe in tongues but I also believe a lot of what goes on is fake.

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GoldenKingGaze said:

Without word strivings, what are the scriptural evidences?

What should an interpretation amount to?

The Spirit of prophecy is the oil of the Holy Spirit. Prophets were anointed.

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GoldenKingGaze said:

This thread is for discussing speaking and praying in tongues from a Biblical viewpoint, bearing in mind the early church and present day psychology. This will take readers and posters into consideration of these Bible verses below, and cessationism, continuism, revival, and word striving together with sola scriptura and Lectio Divina and a good Bible Concordance for context... Or you can just jot down a sentence...

YLT
1Co 12:3 wherefore, I give you to understand that no one, in the Spirit of God speaking, saith Jesus is anathema, and no one is able to say Jesus is Lord, except in the Holy Spirit.

1Co 12:4 And there are diversities of gifts, and the same Spirit;

1Co 12:5 and there are diversities of ministrations, and the same Lord;

1Co 12:6 and there are diversities of workings, and it is the same God—who is working the all in all.

1Co 12:7 And to each hath been given the manifestation of the Spirit for profit;

1Co 12:8 for to one through the Spirit hath been given a word of wisdom, and to another a word of knowledge, according to the same Spirit;

1Co 12:9 and to another faith in the same Spirit, and to another gifts of healings in the same Spirit;

1Co 12:10 and to another in-workings of mighty deeds; and to another prophecy; and to another discernings of spirits; and to another divers kinds of tongues; and to another interpretation of tongues:

1Co 12:11 and all these doth work the one and the same Spirit, dividing to each severally as he intendeth.



1Co 12:28 And some, indeed, did God set in the assembly, first apostles, secondly prophets, thirdly teachers, afterwards powers, afterwards gifts of healings, helpings, governings, divers kinds of tongues;

1Co 12:29 are all apostles? are all prophets? are all teachers? are all powers?

1Co 12:30 have all gifts of healings? do all speak with tongues? do all interpret?

1Co 12:31 and desire earnestly the better gifts; and yet a far excelling way do I shew to you:



1Co 13:1 If with the tongues of men and of messengers I speak, and have not love, I have become brass sounding, or a cymbal tinkling;



1Co 13:8 The love doth never fail; and whether there be prophecies, they shall become useless; whether tongues, they shall cease; whether knowledge, it shall become useless;

1Co 13:9 for in part we know, and in part we prophecy;

1Co 13:10 and when that which is perfect may come, then that which is in part shall become useless.



1Co 14:1 Pursue the love, and seek earnestly the spiritual things, and rather that ye may prophecy,

1Co 14:2 for he who is speaking in an unknown tongue—to men he doth not speak, but to God, for no one doth hearken, and in spirit he doth speak secrets;

1Co 14:3 and he who is prophesying to men doth speak edification, and exhortation, and comfort;

1Co 14:4 he who is speaking in an unknown tongue, himself doth edify, and he who is prophesying, an assembly doth edify;

1Co 14:5 and I wish you all to speak with tongues, and more that ye may prophecy, for greater is he who is prophesying than he who is speaking with tongues, except one may interpret, that the assembly may receive edification.

1Co 14:6 And now, brethren, if I may come unto you speaking tongues, what shall I profit you, except I shall speak to you either in revelation, or in knowledge, or in prophesying, or in teaching?

1Co 14:7 yet the things without life giving sound—whether pipe or harp—if a difference in the sounds they may not give, how shall be known that which is piped or that which is harped?

1Co 14:8 for if also an uncertain sound a trumpet may give, who shall prepare himself for battle?

1Co 14:9 so also ye, if through the tongue, speech easily understood ye may not give—how shall that which is spoken be known? for ye shall be speaking to air.

1Co 14:10 There are, it may be, so many kinds of voices in the world, and none of them is unmeaning,

1Co 14:11 if, then, I do not know the power of the voice, I shall be to him who is speaking a foreigner, and he who is speaking, is to me a foreigner;

1Co 14:12 so also ye, since ye are earnestly desirous of spiritual gifts, for the building up of the assembly seek that ye may abound;

1Co 14:13 wherefore he who is speaking in an unknown tongue—let him pray that he may interpret;

1Co 14:14 for if I pray in an unknown tongue, my spirit doth pray, and my understanding is unfruitful.

1Co 14:15 What then is it? I will pray with the spirit, and I will pray also with the understanding; I will sing psalms with the spirit, and I will sing psalms also with the understanding;

1Co 14:16 since, if thou mayest bless with the spirit, he who is filling the place of the unlearned, how shall he say the Amen at thy giving of thanks, since what thou dost say he hath not known?

1Co 14:17 for thou, indeed, dost give thanks well, but the other is not built up!

1Co 14:18 I give thanks to my God—more than you all with tongues speaking—

1Co 14:19 but in an assembly I wish to speak five words through my understanding, that others also I may instruct, rather than myriads of words in an unknown tongue.

1Co 14:20 Brethren, become not children in the understanding, but in the evil be ye babes, and in the understanding become ye perfect;

1Co 14:21 in the law it hath been written, that, 'With other tongues and with other lips I will speak to this people, and not even so will they hear Me, saith the Lord;'

1Co 14:22 so that the tongues are for a sign, not to the believing, but to the unbelieving; and the prophesy is not for the unbelieving, but for the believing,

1Co 14:23 If, therefore, the whole assembly may come together, to the same place, and all may speak with tongues, and there may come in unlearned or unbelievers, will they not say that ye are mad?

1Co 14:24 and if all may prophecy, and any one may come in, an unbeliever or unlearned, he is convicted by all, he is discerned by all,

1Co 14:25 and so the secrets of his heart become manifest, and so having fallen upon his face, he will bow before God, declaring that God really is among you.

Orderly Worship

1Co 14:26 What then is it, brethren? whenever ye may come together, each of you hath a psalm, hath a teaching, hath a tongue, hath a revelation, hath an interpretation? let all things be for building up;

1Co 14:27 if an unknown tongue any one do speak, by two, or at the most, by three, and in turn, and let one interpret;

1Co 14:28 and if there may be no interpreter, let him be silent in an assembly, and to himself let him speak, and to God.

1Co 14:29 And prophets—let two or three speak, and let the others discern,

1Co 14:30 and if to another sitting anything may be revealed, let the first be silent;

1Co 14:31 for ye are able, one by one, all to prophesy, that all may learn, and all may be exhorted,

1Co 14:32 and the spiritual gift of prophets to prophets are subject,

1Co 14:33 for God is not a God of tumult, but of peace, as in all the assemblies of the saints.

1Co 14:34 Your women in the assemblies let them be silent, for it hath not been permitted to them to speak, but to be subject, as also the law saith;

1Co 14:35 and if they wish to learn anything, at home their own husbands let them question, for it is a shame to women to speak in an assembly.

1Co 14:36 From you did the word of God come forth? or to you alone did it come?

1Co 14:37 if any one doth think to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge the things that I write to you—that of the Lord they are commands;

1Co 14:38 and if any one is ignorant—let him be ignorant;

1Co 14:39 so that, brethren, earnestly desire to prophesy, and to speak with tongues do not forbid;

1Co 14:40 let all things be done decently and in order.



Isa 28:11 For by scorned lip, and by another tongue, Doth He speak unto this people.

Isa 28:12 Unto whom He hath said, 'This is the rest, give ye rest to the weary, And this—the refreshing:' And they have not been willing to hear,



The Coming of the Holy Spirit

Act 2:1 And in the day of the Pentecost being fulfilled, they were all with one accord at the same place,

Act 2:2 and there came suddenly out of the heaven a sound as of a bearing violent breath, and it filled all the house where they were sitting,

Act 2:3 and there appeared to them divided tongues, as it were of fire; it sat also upon each one of them,

Act 2:4 and they were all filled with the Holy Spirit, and began to speak with other tongues, according as the Spirit was giving them to declare.

Act 2:5 And there were dwelling in Jerusalem Jews, devout men from every nation of those under the heaven,

Act 2:6 and the rumour of this having come, the multitude came together, and was confounded, because they were each one hearing them speaking in his proper dialect,

Act 2:7 and they were all amazed, and did wonder, saying one unto another, 'Lo, are not all these who are speaking Galileans?

Act 2:8 and how do we hear, each in our proper dialect, in which we were born?

Act 2:9 Parthians, and Medes, and Elamites, and those dwelling in Mesopotamia, in Judea also, and Cappadocia, Pontus, and Asia,

Act 2:10 Phrygia also, and Pamphylia, Egypt, and the parts of Libya, that are along Cyrene, and the strangers of Rome, both Jews and proselytes,

Act 2:11 Cretes and Arabians, we did hear them speaking in our tongues the great things of God.'

Act 2:12 And they were all amazed, and were in doubt, saying one unto another, 'What would this wish to be?'

Act 2:13 and others mocking said, —'They are full of sweet wine;'

Peter's Sermon at Pentecost

Act 2:14 and Peter having stood up with the eleven, lifted up his voice and declared to them, 'Men, Jews! and all those dwelling in Jerusalem, let this be known to you, and harken to my sayings,

Act 2:15 for these are not drunken, as ye take it up, for it is the third hour of the day.

Act 2:16 'But this is that which hath been spoken through the prophet Joel:

Act 2:17 And it shall be in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of My Spirit upon all flesh, and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams;

Act 2:18 and also upon My men-servants, and upon My maid-servants, in those days, I will pour out of My Spirit, and they shall prophesy;

Act 2:19 and I will give wonders in the heaven above, and signs upon the earth beneath—blood, and fire, and vapour of smoke,

Act 2:20 the sun shall be turned to darkness, and the moon to blood, before the coming of the day of the Lord—the great and illustrious;

Act 2:21 and it shall be, every one—whoever shall call upon the name of the Lord, he shall be saved.

Act 2:22 'Men, Israelites! hear these words, Jesus the Nazarene, a man approved of God among you by mighty works, and wonders, and signs, that God did through him in the midst of you, according as also ye yourselves have known;

Act 2:23 this one, by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, being given out, having taken by lawless hands, having crucified—ye did slay;

Act 2:24 whom God did raise up, having loosed the pains of the death, because it was not possible for him to be held by it,

Act 2:25 for David saith in regard to him: I foresaw the Lord always before me—because He is on my right hand—that I may not be moved;

Act 2:26 because of this was my heart cheered, and my tongue was glad, and yet—my flesh also shall rest on hope,

Act 2:27 because Thou wilt not leave my soul to hades, nor wilt Thou give Thy Kind One to see corruption;

Act 2:28 Thou didst make known to me ways of life, Thou shalt fill me with joy with Thy countenance.

Act 2:29 'Men, brethren! it is permitted to speak with freedom unto you concerning the patriarch David, that he both died and was buried, and his tomb is among us unto this day;

Act 2:30 a prophet, therefore, being, and knowing that with an oath God did swear to him, out of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, to raise up the Christ, to sit upon his throne,

Act 2:31 having foreseen, he did speak concerning the rising again of the Christ, that his soul was not left to hades, nor did his flesh see corruption.

Act 2:32 'This Jesus did God raise up, of which we are all witnesses;

Act 2:33 at the right hand then of God having been exalted—also the promise of the Holy Spirit having received from the Father—he was shedding forth this, which now ye see and hear;

Act 2:34 for David did not go up to the heavens, and he saith himself: The Lord saith to my lord, Sit thou at my right hand,

Act 2:35 till I make thy foes thy footstool;

Act 2:36 assuredly, therefore, let all the house of Israel know, that both Lord and Christ did God make him—this Jesus whom ye did crucify.'

Act 2:37 And having heard, they were pricked to the heart; they say also to Peter, and to the rest of the apostles, 'What shall we do, men, brethren?'

Act 2:38 and Peter said unto them, 'Reform, and be baptized each of you on the name of Jesus Christ, to remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit,



1Ti 4:1 And the Spirit expressly speaketh, that in latter times shall certain fall away from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits and teachings of demons,

1Ti 4:2 in hypocrisy speaking lies, being seared in their own conscience,

1Ti 4:3 forbidding to marry—to abstain from meats that God created to be received with thanksgiving by those believing and acknowledging the truth,

1Ti 4:4 because every creature of God is good, and nothing is to be rejected, with thanksgiving being received,

1Ti 4:5 for it is sanctified through the word of God and intercession.



1Ti 6:3 if any one be teaching otherwise, and do not consent to sound words—those of our Lord Jesus Christ—and to the teaching according to piety,

1Ti 6:4 he is proud, knowing nothing, but doting about questions and word-striving, out of which doth come envy, strife, evil-speakings, evil-surmisings,

1Ti 6:5 wranglings of men wholly corrupted in mind, and destitute of the truth, supposing the piety to be gain; depart from such;



Mar 16:16 he who hath believed, and hath been baptized, shall be saved; and he who hath not believed, shall be condemned.

Mar 16:17 'And signs shall accompany those believing these things; in my name demons they shall cast out; with new tongues they shall speak;



Act 10:44 While Peter is yet speaking these sayings, the Holy spirit fell upon all those hearing the word,

Act 10:45 and those of the circumcision believing were astonished—as many as came with Peter—because also upon the nations the gift of the Holy Spirit hath been poured out,

Act 10:46 for they were hearing them speaking with tongues and magnifying God.

Act 10:47 Then answered Peter, 'The water is any one able to forbid, that these may not be baptized, who the Holy Spirit did receive—even as also we?'



Act 19:5 and they, having heard, were baptized—to the name of the Lord Jesus,

Act 19:6 and Paul having laid on them his hands, the Holy Spirit came upon them, they were speaking also with tongues, and prophesying,



Joh 18:6 when, therefore, he said to them—'I am he ,' they went away backward, and fell to the ground.

So all verses need be in mind at once, in context and to the plain meaning for those addressed.

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Dave L said:

A simple test would be to record a tongues message and play it for several different tongues churches. And see if any of the interpretations match.

Also, the original tongues speakers understood what they were saying. Today's speakers do not.

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Foxfyre said:

That would not work because only one in a gathering is given the gift of interpretation for one specific message. And if the one given a message in tongues understood what he/she was saying, there would be no need for an interpreter which Paul described as essential for the manifestation to have any meaning at all.

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GoldenKingGaze said:

I do not understand. My experiences have been in the Catholic Charismatic Renewal. Hymns then harmonious tongues, then words of wisdom. Also I heard one person interpret my tongues.

Also in an Italian Pentecostal church, outspoken tongues after worship, and some interpretations. They were encouraging and gave an action to go in. Other things about that church made me relieved to leave.

I have never been in a church with competitive tongues... they have always been in order before I got there. About fifteen churches. The worst thing for me was fast paced worship and even Hillsong worship is unpleasant for me. Just go church shopping.

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Dave L said:

A simple test would be to record a tongues message and play it for several different tongues churches. And see if any of the interpretations match.

Also, the original tongues speakers understood what they were saying. Today's speakers do not.

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