How do we hear God's voice?

LoveofTruth

Christ builds His church from within us
Jun 29, 2015
6,273
1,744
✟164,106.00
Country
Canada
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
I did read closer and I was right - you did take the verse out of context. The word in the Israelites hearts in v14 is the same word that Moses gave them in v10-11.

"10 If thou shalt hearken unto the voice of the Lord thy God, to keep his commandments and his statutes which are written in this book of the law, and if thou turn unto the Lord thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul. 11 For this commandment which I command thee this day, it is not hidden from thee, neither is it far off. It is not in heaven, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go up for us to heaven, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it? 13 Neither is it beyond the sea, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go over the sea for us, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it? 14 But the word is very nigh unto thee, in thy mouth, and in thy heart, that thou mayest do it. ...17 But if thine heart turn away, so that thou wilt not hear"(Deuteronomy 30:10-17 KJV​




Again your own quotation proves you wrong. The word in people's hearts is the word "which we preach". Not new revelations spoken into believers hearts.

"6 But the righteousness which is of faith speaketh on this wise, Say not in thine heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ down from above )7 Or, Who shall descend into the deep? (that is, to bring up Christ again from the dead.) 8 But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;"(Romans 10"6-8 KJV)​


Sorry, but no matter how many straws you try to grasp, and verses you try to stretch, there is not a single scripture that says God gives us new revelations by feelings in our hearts.
You missed the mystery and the spiritual meaning Paul shows.

Even in the old testament verses in Deuteronomy it says that the commandment God commanded
is not hidden from them. Is was not something that they never heard before. You miss this the text and Romans clarifies this.It seems hidden from you however in your understanding, but not in your heart. He is speaking of Christ in the heart as the word of Christ dwelling in them. The word of faith that Paul preached came from the source of Christ in them.

we read

"it is not hidden from thee, neither is it far off [Paul says this refers to Christ here in Romans 10] . It is not in heaven, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go up for us to heaven, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it [Christ], and do it [Christ]? 13 Neither is it [Christ] beyond the sea, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go over the sea for us, and bring it [Christ] unto us, that we may hear it [Christ], and do it [Christ]? 14 But the word [Of Christ] is very nigh [close] unto thee,"[in your heart Paul says]

Even the gentiles had the work of the law written in their hearts as the Jews did. We see this mystery clearly shown here to the unbiased reader,

"14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature [God's natural way of dealing with all men] the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:

15 Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another )


16 In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel."(Romans 2:14 KJV) This is not referring to the conscience as the work of the law. But that the conscience bears a witness to this. The work of the law is what the true Light does in the first dealings with sinful man. It reproves all things


Ephesians 5:13
"But all things that are reproved are made manifest by the light: for whatsoever doth make manifest is light."
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

Bible Highlighter

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.
Supporter
Jul 22, 2014
41,433
7,859
...
✟1,187,903.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
When You say God's audible voice, what is that? God is a Spirit.And many instances where we read of God speaking to men, these may simply be God speaking in their hearts and to their inner man.

And Abraham did not have scripture yet . I can imagine if he met a man like you in his walk and told you that God spoke to him you might deny it for there was no scripture yet and how would you know God spoke to him?

In fact the scriptures themselves do not direct men in many things, it is the Spirit of God working in them that directs. N man even knows the things of God but by the Spirit and what he reveals.
For example. A man might read the scriptural qualifications of a Bishop in Timothy and say that he has all those qualifications. And in his natural mind try to be an overseer.The simple qualifications do not direct him to be a bishop. The scriptures there are not his rule and what lead him to do such a work. He may try in his natural mind and logic to be an overseer yet he did not have the call of God in his spirit to do so. The Holy Ghost makes men overseers (Acts 20) and men have to be willing to follow that call and have the desire inwardly to obey Gods call. No man can simply follow scripture here and say they are a overseer. It is a call and gift from God.

All those who are led by the Spirit are the sons of God.

Jesus said His sheep hear his voice.Now many unbelievers and pharisees heard His voice as he talked in the places he went, but they did not really hear His voice in their hearts and believe and they were not is sheep simply by hearing him talk to them. Jesus asked some why they did not understand his speech. Even because they could not hear His word. That word was in the heart sown as many scripture testify.

The word of God is quick ( alive) and powerful and it is a discerner of the thoughts and intent of the heart (hebrews 4:12 KJV), neither is there ANY CREATURE on earth that is not manifest in His sight. Therefore this word sown, is the seed sown in the heart the true Light which lighteth every man that cometh into the world

"12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart. 13 Neither is there any creature that is not manifest in his sight: but all things are naked and opened unto the eyes of him with whom we have to do."(Hebrews 4:12,13 KJV)

This word in the heart is the seed sown in the hearts of all men as the parable shows, all are affected one way or another,

"11 Now the parable is this: The seed is the word of God.12 Those by the way side are they that hear; then cometh the devil, and taketh away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved.13 They on the rock are they, which, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, which for a while believe, and in time of temptation fall away."(Luke 8 KJV)

"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men.
5 And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.
...9 That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world."

I am speaking of a great mystery. But it seems to be hid from many it seems.

This seed, word and Light is sown in the heart of all men from Adam until today, way before any scripture is given. All things that are reproved are made manifest by the Light. When men hate this light because their deeds are evil then they are condemned. This means that any man anywhere at any time who hates the light he does so because his deeds are evil. Even the Gentiles with no scripture show the work of the law written in their hearts and God is able to judge them one day. 19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them."(Romans 1:19 KJV). They hold the truth in unrighteousness. The truth, the seed, the word, the Light, Christ in them, are all connected as the Spirit has shown in scripture..

The scripture does not contradict this word because the Lord is working through both. The scripture was given by the Spirit. And the word is spirit and life.

When Jesus called Matthew he simply got up and followed him. He was already one of Jesus sheep and he heard His voice and followed him. He didn't just hear him in the natural but in the spirit. Jesus didn't quote scripture to him then he called him. For His spirit bears witness with our spirit. God searches the heart and His word abides in those who believe.

Jesus said that no man knows the father but the Son and to whom he reveals him. So no amount of reading or human effort can make a person know the father. This is by revelation. Jesus blessed peter when he confessed that Jesus Christ was the Christ the Son of God. He said flesh and blood had not revealed it unto him, but the Father in heaven.

But some today might read scriptures and intellectually know what they are to say and try to mimick this and yet in their heart they are not regenerated or called or hear the fathers revelation of the Son. Yet they will say they have scripture and try to follow what they think scripture is directing them to do.

yet they are not led by the spirit.

This is what many of the religious pharisees of Jesus day did. They thought they had eternal life in the scriptures. yet Jesus said they spke of him. But they would not come to him. Instead they clung to scripture and the letter instead of the Spirit.

While I believe God can talk to our hearts, this would be with in unison with His communicated word in some way.

Before the cross (OT), at one particular point in time, people each heard something slightly different when GOD the Father spoke from heaven.

28 "Then came there a voice from heaven, saying, "I have both glorified it, and will glorify it again."
29 The people therefore, that stood by, and heard it, said that it thundered: others said, An angel spoke to him." (John 20:28-29).​

So they obviously heard something audibly.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

Bible Highlighter

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.
Supporter
Jul 22, 2014
41,433
7,859
...
✟1,187,903.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
When You say God's audible voice, what is that? God is a Spirit.And many instances where we read of God speaking to men, these may simply be God speaking in their hearts and to their inner man.

And Abraham did not have scripture yet . I can imagine if he met a man like you in his walk and told you that God spoke to him you might deny it for there was no scripture yet and how would you know God spoke to him?

In fact the scriptures themselves do not direct men in many things, it is the Spirit of God working in them that directs. N man even knows the things of God but by the Spirit and what he reveals.
For example. A man might read the scriptural qualifications of a Bishop in Timothy and say that he has all those qualifications. And in his natural mind try to be an overseer.The simple qualifications do not direct him to be a bishop. The scriptures there are not his rule and what lead him to do such a work. He may try in his natural mind and logic to be an overseer yet he did not have the call of God in his spirit to do so. The Holy Ghost makes men overseers (Acts 20) and men have to be willing to follow that call and have the desire inwardly to obey Gods call. No man can simply follow scripture here and say they are a overseer. It is a call and gift from God.

All those who are led by the Spirit are the sons of God.

Jesus said His sheep hear his voice.Now many unbelievers and pharisees heard His voice as he talked in the places he went, but they did not really hear His voice in their hearts and believe and they were not is sheep simply by hearing him talk to them. Jesus asked some why they did not understand his speech. Even because they could not hear His word. That word was in the heart sown as many scripture testify.

The word of God is quick ( alive) and powerful and it is a discerner of the thoughts and intent of the heart (hebrews 4:12 KJV), neither is there ANY CREATURE on earth that is not manifest in His sight. Therefore this word sown, is the seed sown in the heart the true Light which lighteth every man that cometh into the world

"12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart. 13 Neither is there any creature that is not manifest in his sight: but all things are naked and opened unto the eyes of him with whom we have to do."(Hebrews 4:12,13 KJV)

This word in the heart is the seed sown in the hearts of all men as the parable shows, all are affected one way or another,

"11 Now the parable is this: The seed is the word of God.12 Those by the way side are they that hear; then cometh the devil, and taketh away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved.13 They on the rock are they, which, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, which for a while believe, and in time of temptation fall away."(Luke 8 KJV)

"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men.
5 And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.
...9 That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world."

I am speaking of a great mystery. But it seems to be hid from many it seems.

This seed, word and Light is sown in the heart of all men from Adam until today, way before any scripture is given. All things that are reproved are made manifest by the Light. When men hate this light because their deeds are evil then they are condemned. This means that any man anywhere at any time who hates the light he does so because his deeds are evil. Even the Gentiles with no scripture show the work of the law written in their hearts and God is able to judge them one day. 19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them."(Romans 1:19 KJV). They hold the truth in unrighteousness. The truth, the seed, the word, the Light, Christ in them, are all connected as the Spirit has shown in scripture..

The scripture does not contradict this word because the Lord is working through both. The scripture was given by the Spirit. And the word is spirit and life.

When Jesus called Matthew he simply got up and followed him. He was already one of Jesus sheep and he heard His voice and followed him. He didn't just hear him in the natural but in the spirit. Jesus didn't quote scripture to him then he called him. For His spirit bears witness with our spirit. God searches the heart and His word abides in those who believe.

Jesus said that no man knows the father but the Son and to whom he reveals him. So no amount of reading or human effort can make a person know the father. This is by revelation. Jesus blessed peter when he confessed that Jesus Christ was the Christ the Son of God. He said flesh and blood had not revealed it unto him, but the Father in heaven.

But some today might read scriptures and intellectually know what they are to say and try to mimick this and yet in their heart they are not regenerated or called or hear the fathers revelation of the Son. Yet they will say they have scripture and try to follow what they think scripture is directing them to do.

yet they are not led by the spirit.

This is what many of the religious pharisees of Jesus day did. They thought they had eternal life in the scriptures. yet Jesus said they spke of him. But they would not come to him. Instead they clung to scripture and the letter instead of the Spirit.

As for the Parable of the Sower:

Here is...

My Biblical Explanation on the Parable of the Sower:

#1. He that sows the good seed is the Son of man (Jesus) (Matthew 13:37).

#2. The seed is the word of God, i.e. the gospel message from the Scriptures (Luke 8:11) (For we are born of incorruptible seed, which is the word of God that endures forever, see: 1 Peter 1:23-25; Also the words of Jesus are spiritual and they are life - John 6:63) (Note: The sower and the seed are not the same thing). Jesus distinguishes between abiding in Him and abiding in His words. For Jesus says, "If ye abide in me, and my words abide in you, ye shall ask what ye will, and it shall be done unto you." (John 15:7).

#3. Only those individuals who are labeled as: "The seed by the way side" are those who when they have heard the word, Satan came immediately, and took away the word that was sown in their hearts. (Mark 4:15). This is not said of the other seeds who fell away.

#4. The alternative to the "seed by way side" to be saved is if they "believe" in order to be saved (Luke 8:12). For Luke 8:12 says, "lest they should believe and be saved."

#5. We see that the one of the other seeds (that fell away later) do believe. However, they only believe for a while. Meaning, they are only saved for a while. For Luke 8:13 says, "They on the rock are they, which, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, which for a while believe, and in time of temptation fall away."

#6. What was the cause of their falling away? Was it because they never believed in the first place? No. It was in time of temptation that they fall away (Again see Luke 8:13) (Also see Hebrews 3:12-14).

#7. The plants sprung up (Which means they had life).

Luke 8:6-7 says, "And some fell upon a rock; and as soon as it was sprung up, it withered away, because it lacked moisture. And some fell among thorns; and the thorns sprang up with it, and choked it. In other words, it choked the life out of it. 1 Timothy 6:10 says, "For the love of money is the root of all evil: which while some coveted after, they have erred from the faith, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows." We are told to continue in His goodness, otherwise we will be cut off (See Romans 11:21-22).

#8. They had "no root" within themselves (Matthew 13:21) is that they did not have root in ALL of God's Word. They only believed the milk of the Word (the gospel message of salvation in Jesus - The entrance to salvation) (1 Corinthians 3:2) (1 Peter 2:2), but they did not move on to the meat of the Word (Which is discern between good and evil - Hebrews 5:14). They did not have a root in doing righteousness (Which is also by Jesus Christ - Romans 13:14, John 15:5). Proverbs 12:3 says, "A man shall not be established by wickedness: but the root of the righteous shall not be moved." For he that does righteousness is righteous (1 John 3:7). This is the root, they did not have. It is the teachings of Jesus that tell us to live holy and righteous as a part of God's saving grace. Instead, they fell away due to specific sins like being offended by persecution and falling into desiring to be rich. They were not obedient to Christ's words in the Bible.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

Bible Highlighter

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.
Supporter
Jul 22, 2014
41,433
7,859
...
✟1,187,903.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
When You say God's audible voice, what is that? God is a Spirit.And many instances where we read of God speaking to men, these may simply be God speaking in their hearts and to their inner man.

And Abraham did not have scripture yet . I can imagine if he met a man like you in his walk and told you that God spoke to him you might deny it for there was no scripture yet and how would you know God spoke to him?

In fact the scriptures themselves do not direct men in many things, it is the Spirit of God working in them that directs. N man even knows the things of God but by the Spirit and what he reveals.
For example. A man might read the scriptural qualifications of a Bishop in Timothy and say that he has all those qualifications. And in his natural mind try to be an overseer.The simple qualifications do not direct him to be a bishop. The scriptures there are not his rule and what lead him to do such a work. He may try in his natural mind and logic to be an overseer yet he did not have the call of God in his spirit to do so. The Holy Ghost makes men overseers (Acts 20) and men have to be willing to follow that call and have the desire inwardly to obey Gods call. No man can simply follow scripture here and say they are a overseer. It is a call and gift from God.

All those who are led by the Spirit are the sons of God.

Jesus said His sheep hear his voice.Now many unbelievers and pharisees heard His voice as he talked in the places he went, but they did not really hear His voice in their hearts and believe and they were not is sheep simply by hearing him talk to them. Jesus asked some why they did not understand his speech. Even because they could not hear His word. That word was in the heart sown as many scripture testify.

The word of God is quick ( alive) and powerful and it is a discerner of the thoughts and intent of the heart (hebrews 4:12 KJV), neither is there ANY CREATURE on earth that is not manifest in His sight. Therefore this word sown, is the seed sown in the heart the true Light which lighteth every man that cometh into the world

"12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart. 13 Neither is there any creature that is not manifest in his sight: but all things are naked and opened unto the eyes of him with whom we have to do."(Hebrews 4:12,13 KJV)

This word in the heart is the seed sown in the hearts of all men as the parable shows, all are affected one way or another,

"11 Now the parable is this: The seed is the word of God.12 Those by the way side are they that hear; then cometh the devil, and taketh away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved.13 They on the rock are they, which, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, which for a while believe, and in time of temptation fall away."(Luke 8 KJV)

"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men.
5 And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.
...9 That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world."

I am speaking of a great mystery. But it seems to be hid from many it seems.

This seed, word and Light is sown in the heart of all men from Adam until today, way before any scripture is given. All things that are reproved are made manifest by the Light. When men hate this light because their deeds are evil then they are condemned. This means that any man anywhere at any time who hates the light he does so because his deeds are evil. Even the Gentiles with no scripture show the work of the law written in their hearts and God is able to judge them one day. 19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them."(Romans 1:19 KJV). They hold the truth in unrighteousness. The truth, the seed, the word, the Light, Christ in them, are all connected as the Spirit has shown in scripture..

The scripture does not contradict this word because the Lord is working through both. The scripture was given by the Spirit. And the word is spirit and life.

When Jesus called Matthew he simply got up and followed him. He was already one of Jesus sheep and he heard His voice and followed him. He didn't just hear him in the natural but in the spirit. Jesus didn't quote scripture to him then he called him. For His spirit bears witness with our spirit. God searches the heart and His word abides in those who believe.

Jesus said that no man knows the father but the Son and to whom he reveals him. So no amount of reading or human effort can make a person know the father. This is by revelation. Jesus blessed peter when he confessed that Jesus Christ was the Christ the Son of God. He said flesh and blood had not revealed it unto him, but the Father in heaven.

But some today might read scriptures and intellectually know what they are to say and try to mimick this and yet in their heart they are not regenerated or called or hear the fathers revelation of the Son. Yet they will say they have scripture and try to follow what they think scripture is directing them to do.

yet they are not led by the spirit.

This is what many of the religious pharisees of Jesus day did. They thought they had eternal life in the scriptures. yet Jesus said they spke of him. But they would not come to him. Instead they clung to scripture and the letter instead of the Spirit.

God's audible voice can shake this Earth, too.

"Whose voice then shook the earth: but now he hath promised, saying, Yet once more I shake not the earth only, but also heaven." (Hebrews 12:26).

"The Lord also shall roar out of Zion, and utter his voice from Jerusalem; and the heavens and the earth shall shake: but the Lord will be the hope of his people, and the strength of the children of Israel." (Joel 3:16).
 
Upvote 0

Bible Highlighter

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.
Supporter
Jul 22, 2014
41,433
7,859
...
✟1,187,903.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Yes I agree the New testament was in His blood at Jesus death. But the Old Covenant was fading away slowly for the ones under it. They needed time to understand and Jesus said he had many things to say and to judge of them but they were not able to bear it at that time. The Holy Ghost would guide them into all truth. Also the diverse washings and carnal ordinances were imposed on them until the time of reformation as we read.It seems that right up to the destruction of the temple they still struggled with the law and customs and the old Covenant to some degree

"13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away."(Hebrews 8:13 KJV) It doesn't seem to have fully done so even when Hebrews was written as the words teach us here.
Hebrews 8:13 is kind of like a bible commentary (from the author of Hebrews) on the two words "New Covenant" that Jesus spoke.

The author of Hebrews is defining or expounding upon those two words "
New Covenant" for us in what they are really saying from Jesus. These words by Jesus "New Covenant" were said at the Lord's supper partaken by Jesus and His disciples the night before His crucifixion. Jesus said, "This cup is the new testament in my blood, which is shed for you." (Luke 22:20).

So we have to understand the timing of when Jesus said these words to understand what the author of Hebrews was saying.

The author of Hebrews is saying that when Jesus said
"New Testament" or "New Covenant" at the Lord's supper (before His crucifixion), what Jesus really meant by those two words ("New Covenant") was that He was saying: "he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away." (Hebrews 8:13).

So Jesus says "New Covenant" (New Testament) before His crucifixion, and the a
uthor of Hebrews is expounding the meaning on what Jesus meant by those two words. Jesus meant that He [Jesus] has made the "First Covenant" old by His New Testament teachings. This "First Covenant" decays and waxes old and it is ready to vanish away when Christ will die upon the cross the next day. At Christ's death, the temple veil was torn from top to bottom letting us know the animal sacrifices were no longer valid. The Old was no more the instant Jesus died.

You said:
"10 Which stood only in meats and drinks, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed on them until the time of reformation."(Hebrews 9:10 KJV)

No, my friend. The time of reformation was the death of Christ.


15 "And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.
16 For where a testament
is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator.
17 For a testament
is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth." (Hebrews 9:15-17).

Think of a testament like a "will" that a person makes in the event that when they die, he wills certain benefits to his loved ones. But the person has to die in order for that will or testament to go into effect. You cannot have two covenants or contracts abiding at the same time, my friend. The old contract ended with Christ's death. There was no fading away of the OT after the cross. The OT was officially gone with Christ's death and certain Jews and even Messianic Jews did not know that fact right away. They had one foot in the Old covenant and one foot in the New covenant. Jesus says we cannot put new wine into old wine skins, otherwise they will burst.


 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

NBB

Well-Known Member
Supporter
Apr 19, 2013
3,549
1,537
44
Uruguay
✟445,478.00
Country
Uruguay
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
The people who truly operated by miracles in the New Testament were Jesus, Peter, and Paul, etc. If apostolistic gifts are truly in operation today, then a Continuationist has to at least name me one prophet or one miracle worker in the past 2,000 years or even today.

Also, what new prophecies that are accurate and have come true from some genuine prophets in the last 2,000 years can we add to the Bible? Are these prophets always right in their predictions? Do they always heal people?

I have a testimony 'too incredible for internet forums' that a minister started telling me what i was thinking, i switched thoughts scared and he told me again what i was thinking several times i switched, he drove off some demons from me, i recognized them from my youth and felt when they went away, i also felt power coming to me just before that, he told me some things about my life he couldn't possibly have known otherwise, and 1 prophecy to my life, so i say there is miracle workers today. I don't say he is like Peter healing people instantly in the name of Jesus, but miraculous enough!

Also the prophecies in the church are for this i think:

But those who prophesy are speaking to people. They help people grow stronger in faith, and they give encouragement and comfort.

And this:

But suppose you are all prophesying and someone comes in who does not believe or who is without understanding. Their sin will be shown to them, and they will be judged by everything you say. 25 The secret things in their heart will be made known. So they will bow down and worship God. They will say, “Without a doubt, God is here with you.”

This is active today, i have experienced this.
 
Upvote 0

swordsman1

Well-Known Member
May 3, 2015
3,940
1,064
✟250,347.00
Faith
Christian
When You say God's audible voice, what is that? God is a Spirit.And many instances where we read of God speaking to men, these may simply be God speaking in their hearts and to their inner man.

Deut 4:12 "Then the Lord spoke to you from the midst of the fire; you heard the sound of words, but you saw no form—only a voice."

Ezekiel 1:28 "Such was the appearance of the likeness of the glory of the Lord. And when I saw it, I fell on my face and heard a voice speaking."

Matt 3:17 "and behold, a voice out of the heavens said, “This is My beloved Son, in whom I am well-pleased.”"

Mark 9:7 "Then a cloud formed, overshadowing them, and a voice came out of the cloud, “This is My beloved Son, listen to Him!”

John 12:28 "Then a voice came out of heaven: “I have both glorified it, and will glorify it again.” So the crowd of people who stood by and heard it were saying that it had thundered; others were saying, “An angel has spoken to Him.”

Acts 9:4-6 "he fell to the ground and heard a voice saying to him, “Saul, Saul, why are you persecuting Me?....The men who traveled with him stood speechless, hearing the voice but seeing no one...


Jesus said His sheep hear his voice.Now many unbelievers and pharisees heard His voice as he talked in the places he went, but they did not really hear His voice in their hearts and believe and they were not is sheep simply by hearing him talk to them. Jesus asked some why they did not understand his speech. Even because they could not hear His word. That word was in the heart sown as many scripture testify.

When Jesus said "my sheep hear my voice" he wasn't talking about his literal voice spoken in Jerusalem. It says in John 10:6 that this was a figure of speech. It is a metaphor for something else. It could be his words recorded scripture or it could be him speaking new revelations in your heart. One is entirely biblical with God's voice being a used as metaphor for scripture in numerous other verses; the other option is completely absent from scripture.

The word of God is quick ( alive) and powerful and it is a discerner of the thoughts and intent of the heart (hebrews 4:12 KJV), neither is there ANY CREATURE on earth that is not manifest in His sight. Therefore this word sown, is the seed sown in the heart the true Light which lighteth every man that cometh into the world

"12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart. 13 Neither is there any creature that is not manifest in his sight: but all things are naked and opened unto the eyes of him with whom we have to do."(Hebrews 4:12,13 KJV)

This word in the heart is the seed sown in the hearts of all men as the parable shows, all are affected one way or another,

"11 Now the parable is this: The seed is the word of God.12 Those by the way side are they that hear; then cometh the devil, and taketh away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved.13 They on the rock are they, which, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, which for a while believe, and in time of temptation fall away."(Luke 8 KJV)

"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men.
5 And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.
...9 That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world."

These verses are referring to the word of God (scripture) abiding in people's hearts. Not new revelations spoken into people's hearts.

When Jesus called Matthew he simply got up and followed him. He was already one of Jesus sheep and he heard His voice and followed him. He didn't just hear him in the natural but in the spirit. Jesus didn't quote scripture to him then he called him. For His spirit bears witness with our spirit. God searches the heart and His word abides in those who believe.

Jesus didn't speak to Matthew telepathically, He spoke to him audibly.

Matthew 9:8-9 "As Jesus passed on from there, he saw a man called Matthew sitting at the tax booth, and he said to him, “Follow me.” And he rose and followed him."

Jesus said that no man knows the father but the Son and to whom he reveals him. So no amount of reading or human effort can make a person know the father. This is by revelation. Jesus blessed peter when he confessed that Jesus Christ was the Christ the Son of God. He said flesh and blood had not revealed it unto him, but the Father in heaven.

We do not become believers by hearing a voice speaking telepathically in our hearts. We believe after hearing the gospel as contained in scripture.

Rom 10:14-17 "How then will they call on him in whom they have not believed? And how are they to believe in him of whom they have never heard? And how are they to hear without someone preaching? ...."So faith comes from hearing, and hearing through the word of Christ."
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

swordsman1

Well-Known Member
May 3, 2015
3,940
1,064
✟250,347.00
Faith
Christian
You missed the mystery and the spiritual meaning Paul sows.

Even in the old testament verses in Deuteronomy it says that the commandment God commanded
is not hidden from them. Is was not something that they never heard before. You miss this the text and Romans clarifies this.It seems hidden from you however in your understanding, but not in your heart. He is speaking of Christ in the heart as the word of Christ dwelling in them. The word of faith that Paul preached came from the source of Christ in them.

we read

"it is not hidden from thee, neither is it far off [Paul says this refers to Christ here in Romans 10] . It is not in heaven, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go up for us to heaven, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it [Christ], and do it [Christ]? 13 Neither is it [Christ] beyond the sea, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go over the sea for us, and bring it [Christ] unto us, that we may hear it [Christ], and do it [Christ]? 14 But the word [Of Christ] is very nigh [close] unto thee,"[in your heart Paul says]

Ok. I have finally deciphered your theological gymnastics. And I think you are quite wrong. You are reading far to much into it to say the "it" in Deut 30 is "Christ".

In Romans 10 Paul quotes Deut 30 as a comparison. Just as the Israelite did not need to "ascend into heaven" to find God's commandment, so, Paul suggests, there is no need to ascend into heaven to "bring down Christ." ie Christ is not hard to find either. It is a travesty to then take that comparison and force it back into Deut 30 and completely change it's meaning. That was never Paul's intention.

Even the gentiles had the work of the law written in their hearts as the Jews did. We see this mystery clearly shown here to the unbiased reader,

"14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature [God's natural way of dealing with all men] the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:

15 Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another )


16 In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel."(Romans 2:14 KJV) This is not referring to the conscience as the work of the law. But that the conscience bears a witness to this. The work of the law is what the true Light does in the first dealings with sinful man. It reproves all things

That is referring to the moral law which everyone understands, including gentile non-believers. It is not the Law itself that written in their hearts it is the "work of the Law". Everyone knows right and wrong from their conscience - that they should not murder, steal, lie, etc. However the human conscience is never referred to as God's 'voice' in scripture. And it certainly isn't a source of new revelations from God. It is simply instinctively knowing right from wrong.
 
Upvote 0

Bible Highlighter

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.
Supporter
Jul 22, 2014
41,433
7,859
...
✟1,187,903.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
I have a testimony 'too incredible for internet forums' that a minister started telling me what i was thinking, i switched thoughts scared and he told me again what i was thinking several times i switched, he drove off some demons from me, i recognized them from my youth and felt when they went away, i also felt power coming to me just before that, he told me some things about my life he couldn't possibly have known otherwise, and 1 prophecy to my life, so i say there is miracle workers today. I don't say he is like Peter healing people instantly in the name of Jesus, but miraculous enough!

What is the minister’s name (or what church does he belong to)? Usually when I discover folks that claim to do miracles, they are exposed by their wrong theology or unbiblical practices that falls into the realm of mysticism or the new age. Some of them are also prosperity preachers, etc. Granted, I am not saying every single believer who claims to be operating by God’s power is not doing so (because I don’t want to fall into condemnation like when the Pharisees criticized the power Jesus was working by), I just tend to be a little more skeptical and would like to find out what a person’s core beliefs are (before making any judgments).

You said:
Also the prophecies in the church are for this i think:

But those who prophesy are speaking to people. They help people grow stronger in faith, and they give encouragement and comfort.

And this:

But suppose you are all prophesying and someone comes in who does not believe or who is without understanding. Their sin will be shown to them, and they will be judged by everything you say. 25 The secret things in their heart will be made known. So they will bow down and worship God. They will say, “Without a doubt, God is here with you.”

This is active today, i have experienced this.

The Word of God is the test and not a miracle. We walk by faith and not by sight (by some miracle). The miraclous signs done by the apostles were for the early church to confirm the New Covenant, the Word, and the church as being true. Once that purpose was accomplished, the apostolistic gifts were no longer needed.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Bible Highlighter

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.
Supporter
Jul 22, 2014
41,433
7,859
...
✟1,187,903.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
I say if Jesus would be with us on earth he would say: where is your faith? You don’t have enough faith.

To the people believing he can't even speak anything to us!

God does speak to us today. It is by His miraculous Word.
The Bible is a miracle book. It is divine in origin and this book speaks to His people every day.
What new words or revelation can compare to what is already written in His Word?
Faith comes by hearing and hearing the Word of God (the Bible) (Romans 10:17).
 
Upvote 0

LoveofTruth

Christ builds His church from within us
Jun 29, 2015
6,273
1,744
✟164,106.00
Country
Canada
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Ok. I have finally deciphered your theological gymnastics. And I think you are quite wrong. You are reading far to much into it to say the "it" in Deut 30 is "Christ".

No I'm not what I am speaking of is msyeries the wisdom of God in a maystery, which is hid from some. This is a spirtual understanding.

1 Corinthians 2:7
"But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory:"


Sometimes spiritual things trouble men who may like to see things naturally and to be able to simply look at a Greek word and think they know what Jesus is saying. I love this word from my Lord when he said,

"21 In that hour Jesus rejoiced in spirit, and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes: even so, Father; for so it seemed good in thy sight. 22 All things are delivered to me of my Father: and no man knoweth who the Son is, but the Father; and who the Father is, but the Son, and he to whom the Son will reveal him. 23 And he turned him unto his disciples, and said privately, Blessed are the eyes which see the things that ye see: 24 For I tell you, that many prophets and kings have desired to see those things which ye see, and have not seen them; and to hear those things which ye hear, and have not heard them."(Luke 10:21-24 KJV)

In Romans 10 Paul quotes Deut 30 as a comparison. Just as the Israelite did not need to "ascend into heaven" to find God's commandment, so, Paul suggests, there is no need to ascend into heaven to "bring down Christ." ie Christ is not hard to find either. It is a travesty to then take that comparison and force it back into Deut 30 and completely change it's meaning. That was never Paul's intention.

I believe you are very wrong here and because this is very clear and answer the entire discussion clearly you seem to try and just disagree with it. With no real argument at all, except perhaps that you haven't ever heard this before and so in your mind it must be wrong. I didn't hear any argument against what i showed here and what Paul was speaking of except your words "It is a travesty.." That non argument you suggest is like a person who disagrees with you and says "Thats just wrong..." with no other recourse. This is not how we should speak in disagreement. We need to prove all things and hold fast to that which is good.

Paul clearly says what the chapter is saying in mystery. This mystery has been hid from ages and generations. It was hidden even in that Old testament verse. Paul speaks of the mystery of Christ in you the hope of glory in Colossians 1:. He says

""6 But the righteousness which is of faith speaketh on this wise, Say not in thine heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ down from above )7 Or, Who shall descend into the deep? (that is, to bring up Christ again from the dead.) 8 But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart:"

Paul interprets the "it" of Deuteronomy and it is as clear as a Sunny day to the unbiased reader. You really have no argument against it, except that you may not understand it or it would solidly correct your entire reasoning against Gods voice in the heat and Christ inwardly working . Paul said to believers to "Let the Word of Christ dwell in you richly..."(Colossians 3:16 KJV)

That is referring to the moral law which everyone understands, including gentile non-believers. It is not the Law itself that written in their hearts it is the "work of the Law".

The work of the Law is first to show sin. The true Light that lighteth every man will firstly show their sin and reprove them, as scripture says "all things that are reproved are made manifest by the light" And Jesus said all men are condemned when they hate the light. So all men have this light in their heart to show sin and discern between what is of God and what is not and what is right and wrong. The conscience is not this light. The light cannot be defiled but the conscience can be. You are very wrong when you try to make the work of Christ and His Light in the heart conscience. Conscience implies that they are "with Knowlede" This is according to the knowledge they have. And that which may be known of God is manifest in them (Romans 1:19 KJV).

Interestingly God will judge the secrets of men ( the inner parts the hidden part) one day of all men ( Gentiles specifically in this section). All men can "feel after him and find him though he be not far from every one of us ( Acts 17. This is true for all men on all the face of the earth. God did not leave himself without witness.The true Light still shines in all men's hearts to first reprove them and is a discerner of the thoughts and intent of the heart.

Everyone knows right and wrong from their conscience - that they should not murder, steal, lie, etc. However the human conscience is never referred to as God's 'voice' in scripture. And it certainly isn't a source of new revelations from God. It is simply instinctively knowing right from wrong.

Wrong, the true Light that lighteth every man which shows the work of the law to reprove and expose sin and draw men to God is not the conscience. We read, "their conscience also bearing witness," The The Light is a witness and the conscience also bears witness to this.

"18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness; 19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them."(Romans 1:18,19 KJV)

God shows what he manifest in them by the true Light which lighteth every man that cometh into the world.

"9 That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world."(John 1:9 KJV)


John 12:36
While ye have light, believe in the light, that ye may be the children of light. These things spake Jesus, and departed, and did hide himself from them."

2 Corinthians 4:4
"In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them...
6 For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ.

7 But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the excellency of the power may be of God, and not of us."(2 Cor 4:4,6,7 KJV)
 
Upvote 0

LoveofTruth

Christ builds His church from within us
Jun 29, 2015
6,273
1,744
✟164,106.00
Country
Canada
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
God's audible voice can shake this Earth, too.

"Whose voice then shook the earth: but now he hath promised, saying, Yet once more I shake not the earth only, but also heaven." (Hebrews 12:26).

"The Lord also shall roar out of Zion, and utter his voice from Jerusalem; and the heavens and the earth shall shake: but the Lord will be the hope of his people, and the strength of the children of Israel." (Joel 3:16).
Yes Jason, I said

"And many instances where we read of God speaking to men,"

not all instances.

I think some always assume when God speaks to men in every case He is speaking outside of them audibly. I don't see that in scripture. But we agree God can speak both ways and many ways.
 
Upvote 0

Bible Highlighter

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.
Supporter
Jul 22, 2014
41,433
7,859
...
✟1,187,903.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Yes Jason, I said

"And many instances where we read of God speaking to men,"

not all instances.

I think some always assume when God speaks to men in every case He is speaking outside of them audibly. I don't see that in scripture. But we agree God can speak both ways and many ways.

Oh, okay. My apologies, brother. I was thinking you were saying otherwise. I am glad you think that GOD had spoken audibly according to the Scriptures.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

LoveofTruth

Christ builds His church from within us
Jun 29, 2015
6,273
1,744
✟164,106.00
Country
Canada
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
As for the Parable of the Sower:

Here is...

My Biblical Explanation on the Parable of the Sower:

#1. He that sows the good seed is the Son of man (Jesus) (Matthew 13:37).

#2. The seed is the word of God, i.e. the gospel message from the Scriptures (Luke 8:11) (For we are born of incorruptible seed, which is the word of God that endures forever, see: 1 Peter 1:23-25; Also the words of Jesus are spiritual and they are life - John 6:63) (Note: The sower and the seed are not the same thing). Jesus distinguishes between abiding in Him and abiding in His words. For Jesus says, "If ye abide in me, and my words abide in you, ye shall ask what ye will, and it shall be done unto you." (John 15:7).

#3. Only those individuals who are labeled as: "The seed by the way side" are those who when they have heard the word, Satan came immediately, and took away the word that was sown in their hearts. (Mark 4:15). This is not said of the other seeds who fell away.

#4. The alternative to the "seed by way side" to be saved is if they "believe" in order to be saved (Luke 8:12). For Luke 8:12 says, "lest they should believe and be saved."

#5. We see that the one of the other seeds (that fell away later) do believe. However, they only believe for a while. Meaning, they are only saved for a while. For Luke 8:13 says, "They on the rock are they, which, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, which for a while believe, and in time of temptation fall away."

#6. What was the cause of their falling away? Was it because they never believed in the first place? No. It was in time of temptation that they fall away (Again see Luke 8:13) (Also see Hebrews 3:12-14).

#7. The plants sprung up (Which means they had life).

Luke 8:6-7 says, "And some fell upon a rock; and as soon as it was sprung up, it withered away, because it lacked moisture. And some fell among thorns; and the thorns sprang up with it, and choked it. In other words, it choked the life out of it. 1 Timothy 6:10 says, "For the love of money is the root of all evil: which while some coveted after, they have erred from the faith, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows." We are told to continue in His goodness, otherwise we will be cut off (See Romans 11:21-22).

#8. They had "no root" within themselves (Matthew 13:21) is that they did not have root in ALL of God's Word. They only believed the milk of the Word (the gospel message of salvation in Jesus - The entrance to salvation) (1 Corinthians 3:2) (1 Peter 2:2), but they did not move on to the meat of the Word (Which is discern between good and evil - Hebrews 5:14). They did not have a root in doing righteousness (Which is also by Jesus Christ - Romans 13:14, John 15:5). Proverbs 12:3 says, "A man shall not be established by wickedness: but the root of the righteous shall not be moved." For he that does righteousness is righteous (1 John 3:7). This is the root, they did not have. It is the teachings of Jesus that tell us to live holy and righteous as a part of God's saving grace. Instead, they fell away due to specific sins like being offended by persecution and falling into desiring to be rich. They were not obedient to Christ's words in the Bible.

I would suggest to consider as I have that God sowed Christ the seed in the hearts of men. If you notice in the parable these four soils cover every man on earth. And we read of the word of God a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart to every man on earth in Hebrews 4:12,13 :neither is there any creature that is not manifest in His sight. God is not far from every one of us.

The Father is the husbandman and Jesus is the vine in John 15. This would also imply that God planted Jesus in men's hearts.

We saw somewhat of this mystery that was hid which is Christ in you in Deuteronomy 30

here is a bit more about the mystery ( it was there but hid)

"26 Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints:27 To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:"(Colossians 1:26,27 KJV)

Christ in you the hope... We read that all the OT saints had faith which is the substance of things hoped for the evidence of things not seen. And we also read that Christ in you is the hope of glory. So they all had Christ the seed in them. This seed is "sperma" in Greek, where we get the word "sperm". John uses this word about the new birth and says,

"9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God."(1 John 3:9 KJV)


Abraham had this seed in him also as all believers do. He had this seed in him and did not have holy scripture yet. So God must have sown the seed Christ in him also.

Consider and listen in your spirit as you seek the Lord about these things. These things are spiritually discerned. Hear what the Spirit says in these verses and the deep mystery shown,

"16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ...29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise."(Galatians 3:16,29 KJV)


1 Peter 1:23
Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

LoveofTruth

Christ builds His church from within us
Jun 29, 2015
6,273
1,744
✟164,106.00
Country
Canada
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Hebrews 8:13 is kind of like a bible commentary (from the author of Hebrews) on the two words "New Covenant" that Jesus spoke.

The author of Hebrews is defining or expounding upon those two words "
New Covenant" for us in what they are really saying from Jesus. These words by Jesus "New Covenant" were said at the Lord's supper partaken by Jesus and His disciples the night before His crucifixion. Jesus said, "This cup is the new testament in my blood, which is shed for you." (Luke 22:20).

So we have to understand the timing of when Jesus said these words to understand what the author of Hebrews was saying.

The author of Hebrews is saying that when Jesus said
"New Testament" or "New Covenant" at the Lord's supper (before His crucifixion), what Jesus really meant by those two words ("New Covenant") was that He was saying: "he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away." (Hebrews 8:13).

So Jesus says "New Covenant" (New Testament) before His crucifixion, and the a
uthor of Hebrews is expounding the meaning on what Jesus meant by those two words. Jesus meant that He [Jesus] has made the "First Covenant" old by His New Testament teachings. This "First Covenant" decays and waxes old and it is ready to vanish away when Christ will die upon the cross the next day. At Christ's death, the temple veil was torn from top to bottom letting us know the animal sacrifices were no longer valid. The Old was no more the instant Jesus died.



No, my friend. The time of reformation was the death of Christ.


15 "And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.
16 For where a testament
is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator.
17 For a testament
is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth." (Hebrews 9:15-17).

Think of a testament like a "will" that a person makes in the event that when they die, he wills certain benefits to his loved ones. But the person has to die in order for that will or testament to go into effect. You cannot have two covenants or contracts abiding at the same time, my friend. The old contract ended with Christ's death. There was no fading away of the OT after the cross. The OT was officially gone with Christ's death and certain Jews and even Messianic Jews did not know that fact right away. They had one foot in the Old covenant and one foot in the New covenant. Jesus says we cannot put new wine into old wine skins, otherwise they will burst.
I believe part of the reasom Hebrews was written was to help the Jewish believers and perhaps those who were not believers to come to see the work of Christ and the New testament or New Covenant and to come out of the old winskins and embrace the truth of the New Covenant.

But what is interesting is that in Hebrews 8:13 we see that even though the New Covenant had already began with Jesus death and resurrection. The Jewish believers were still coming out of the old and had a mix of both for a time. In fact all through Acts they did. They were in transition from the old to the new that took time as we can see even though Jesus had finished the work and the New Covenant had come. This is clear in many passages. So when I see the words that the diverse washing (baptismos in Greek) and carnal ordinances were imposed on them until the time of reformation. I see this in a two fold way.

Firstly, the washings sacrifices and carnal ordinances were not needed because the reformation from the old to the new had in effect happened already.

But secondly, I see that they did not have a right conscience about these things yet and so they still as believers in Jesus went to the temple, sacrificed animals all through Acts up until about 70 Ad, circumcised both Jews and attempted to do so with some Gentiles, kept the law and were zealous for it and the customs of the Jews and all the rituals of the temple and all the law and works of the temple.

This is clear in scripture I will post a few example in a moment. But we might ask why did they do this? How could God allow this when the New Covenant had started with Jesus death? God is patient and Jesus said they could not bear certain things yet. Imagine Peter when he was going to the Jewish temple on Pentecost telling all the thousands of Jews that the temple was no more, the sacrifices were no more, the priest and rituals and even the ten commandments were done away in their ministration (2 Cor 3:7-). They would not have understood. It took a revelation and many words and events for even Peter to see this fully. They would not have had a good conscience about it until they had knowledge. So they were in the time of reformation. The word "reformation means "to straiten thoroughly".

They seemed to need to be taught these things and so the book of Hebrews, Galatians, parts of Romans and other places seek to help them come to understand the New Covenant and the freedoms in Christ and to help them see the old Covenant is fading away, ready to vanish and decay. Notice the words, clearly spoken there to the Hebrews the old was "ready to vanish, decay and fade away" It hadn't fully in their understanding yet. In 70 Ad it seemed to stop. Also remember that Hebrews was written many years after Christ death.

We also read that Paul had the "gospel of the uncircumcision" and Peter had the gospel of the circumcision". Now I don't believe there are two different gospels one for the Jew and one for the gentile. But the wording is there about Peters going to the Jews and Paul to the gentiles. Peters ministration was called the gospel of the CIRCUMCISION". This word is telling, consider this section and do a study Gal 2:7 KJV . And ask why would this be the case if they were both to go to Jew and gentile and have no distinction? I can only see that God gave them a time of reformation or transition from the old to the new. Jesus told Peter and others to go into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature. But it seems that peter didn't understand this really and needed a vision to go to the gentiles. Even when he went he was somewhat arguing with God and eventually saw Gods work in this. This happened in Acts 10 many years after Christ death. There were still the circumcision crowd that Peter rehrersed what happened for.

here are some clear examples that the early Jewish BELIEVERS in Jesus were still struggling with law and the old covenant and customs of the Jews and animal sacrifices etc.

"17 And when we were come to Jerusalem, the brethren received us gladly.18 And the day following Paul went in with us unto James; and all the elders were present.19 And when he had saluted them, he declared particularly what things God had wrought among the Gentiles by his ministry.20 And when they heard it, they glorified the Lord, and said unto him, Thou seest, brother, how many thousands of Jews there are which believe; and they are all zealous of the law:21 And they are informed of thee, that thou teachest all the Jews which are among the Gentiles to forsake Moses, saying that they ought not to circumcise their children, neither to walk after the customs.22 What is it therefore? the multitude must needs come together: for they will hear that thou art come.23 Do therefore this that we say to thee: We have four men which have a vow on them;24 Them take, and purify thyself with them, and be at charges with them, that they may shave their heads: and all may know that those things, whereof they were informed concerning thee, are nothing; but that thou thyself also walkest orderly, and keepest the law.25 As touching the Gentiles which believe, we have written and concluded that they observe no such thing, save only that they keep themselves from things offered to idols, and from blood, and from strangled, and from fornication.26 Then Paul took the men, and the next day purifying himself with them entered into the temple, to signify the accomplishment of the days of purification, until that an offering should be offered for every one of them."(Acts21:17-26 KJV)

"46 And they, continuing daily with one accord in the temple"(Acts 2:46 KJV)


"Now Peter and John went up together into the temple at the hour of prayer, being the ninth hour."(Acts 3:1 KJV)


"13 And there came a voice to him, Rise, Peter; kill, and eat.14 But Peter said, Not so, Lord; for I have never eaten any thing that is common or unclean.15 And the voice spake unto him again the second time, What God hath cleansed, that call not thou common."(Acts 10:13015 KJV)


"2 And when Peter was come up to Jerusalem, they that were of the circumcision contended with him,3 Saying, Thou wentest in to men uncircumcised, and didst eat with them."(Acts 11:2,3 KJV)


"And certain men which came down from Judaea taught the brethren, and said, Except ye be circumcised after the manner of Moses, ye cannot be saved."(Acts 15:1 KJV)


"5 But there rose up certain of the sect of the Pharisees which believed, saying, That it was needful to circumcise them, and to command them to keep the law of Moses.6 And the apostles and elders came together for to consider of this matter."(Acts 15:5,6 KJV)


"2 Which was well reported of by the brethren that were at Lystra and Iconium.3 Him would Paul have to go forth with him; and took and circumcised him because of the Jews which were in those quarters: for they knew all that his father was a Greek."(Acts 16:2,3 KJV
)

etc etc
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

Bible Highlighter

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.
Supporter
Jul 22, 2014
41,433
7,859
...
✟1,187,903.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
I would suggest to consider as i have that God sowed Christ the seed in the hearts of men. If you notice in the parable these four soils cover every man on earth. And we read of the word of God a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart to every man on earth in Hebrews 4:12,13 :neither is there any creature that is not manifest in His sight. God is not far from every one of us.

The father is the husbandman and Jesus is the vine in John 15. This woukld also imply that God planted Jesus in men's hearts.

We saw somewhat of this mystery that was hid which is Christ in you in Deuteronomy 30

here is a bit more about the mystery ( it was there but hid)

"26 Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints:27 To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:"(Colossians 1:26,27 KJV)

Christ in you the hope... We read that all the OT saints had faith which is the substance of things hoped for the evidence of things not seen. And we also read that Christ in you is the hope of glory. So they all had Christ the seed in them. This seed is "sperma" in Greek, where we get the word "sperm". John uses this word about the new birth and says,

"9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God."(1 John 3:9 KJV)


Abraham had this seed in him also as all believers do. He had this seed in him and did not have holy scripture yet. So God must have sown the seed Christ in him also.

Consider and listen in your spirit as you seek the Lord about these things. These things are spiritually discerned. Hear what the Spirit says in these verses and the deep mystery shown,

"16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ...29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise."(Galatians 3:16,29 KJV)


1 Peter 1:23
Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

Through out Scripture, the "seed" can refer to either Christ or it can refer to the communicated Word of God (Whether audibly or written - in unison with God coaxing, nudging, convicting, i.e. speaking to their heart about the communicated word). The context determines the meaning of the word "seed" in Scripture.

I believe Galatians 3:16 and Galatians 3:29 is clearly referring to the "seed" as being Christ. So we agree on these two verses.

As for 1 John 3:9:

Again, I agree. The "seed" is talking to Jesus because it refers to abiding in Christ so as not to sin in 1 John 3:6. Recently, God was talking to my heart about the part in 1 John 3:6 that says, "whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him." I used to try to explain this by pointing to Ezekiel 18:24. But I am leaning towards the thinking now that it could also be referring to "justifying sin" (i.e. willful sin without impunity). After all, John was warning the brethren about those gnostic individuals in 1 John 2:26. I believe this false belief of justifying sin by them is mentioned in 1 John 1:8. For the gnostics believed sin does not exist (or it is an illusion) for them when they do sin (1 John 1:8). 1 John 1:10 is denying that a person has sinned in the past. Most people today agree that they have sinned at some point in their life. However, Christian Scientists believe sin is an illusion. So 1 John 1:8 and 1 John 1:10 would be a warning to them in not to think this way. Those who think future sin is paid for, 1 John 1:8 would be a warning for them to put away this belief and then apply 1 John 1:9 as a spiritual medical prescription as the true way so as to deal with sin. For if we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness (Which is obviously in harmony with forsaking sin or walking in the light - 1 John 1:7 cf. Proverbs 28:13).

As for 1 Peter 1:23, the "seed" in this case is the communicated Word of God.

1 Peter 1:24-25 says,
24 For all flesh is as grass, and all the glory of man as the flower of grass. The grass withereth, and the flower thereof falleth away:
25 But the word of the Lord endureth for ever. And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you."​

Now, I can strain the text a little in this above passage here and read it as talking about Jesus, but it reads more naturally as talking about the communicated Word of God. But how do we know for sure it is talking about the communicated word? Well, if we keep reading it becomes clear.

2 Peter 2:1-2
1 "Wherefore laying aside all malice, and all guile, and hypocrisies, and envies, and all evil speakings,
2 As newborn babes, desire the sincere milk of the word, that ye may grow thereby:" (2 Peter 2:1-2).​

If you want the "word" to be in reference to Jesus here, then the milk would be in reference to the communicated Word. Either way, it is talking about the communicated Word of God.

We are born again by the Spirit and by water. The water is in reference to the "washing of the water of the Word" in Ephesians 5:25-27. So when 1 Peter 1:23 says we are born again by the incorruptible seed, it is talking about the communicated Word of God. For faith comes by hearing, and hearing the Word of God (Romans 10:17). We are born again by hearing the gospel that is from the words in Scripture. If a person accepts another gospel that is not from Scripture, they are not born again. One needs to be born again by the Holy Scriptures (by listening to God's holy communicated message, i.e. the Bible).

As for identification of the "Sower" in the Parable of the Sower:

From the Parable of the Weeds we learn that the Sower who sows seed is the Son of Man.

"He that soweth the good seed is the Son of man;" (Matthew 13:37).​

The Son of Man has always been a popular reference to Jesus in the New Testament and not God the Father.

As for the mystery in Colossians 1:26-27:

Against popular opinion, I believe Jesus abided in the OT saints (and gave them salvation). This passage (below) sums it up nicely.

1 Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea;
2 And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea;
3 And did all eat the same spiritual meat;
4 And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ." (1 Corinthians 10:1-4).​

"...for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved." (Acts of the Apostles 4:12).
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

LoveofTruth

Christ builds His church from within us
Jun 29, 2015
6,273
1,744
✟164,106.00
Country
Canada
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
When Jesus said "my sheep hear my voice" he wasn't talking about his literal voice spoken in Jerusalem. It says in John 10:6 that this was a figure of speech. It is a metaphor for something else. It could be his words recorded scripture or it could be him speaking new revelations in your heart. One is entirely biblical with God's voice being a used as metaphor for scripture in numerous other verses; the other option is completely absent from scripture."

This is not so.Jesus said His sheep hear his voice, And Jesus know the hearts of all men and searches the hearts. Jesus said some had not His word abiding in them. But the interesting point here is that when Jesus called His disciples to him and men like Matthew who simple got up and followed him. This is because he was already a sheep before Jesus even spoke a word to him. As all the apostles were. They were saints already and belonged to the Father Jphn 17:6 KJV

"6 I have manifested thy name unto the men which thou gavest me out of the world: thine they were, and thou gavest them me; and they have kept thy word."(John 17:6 KJV)

QUOTE="swordsman1, post: 73433566, member: 376452"]Jesus didn't speak to Matthew telepathically, He spoke to him audibly.

Matthew 9:8-9 "As Jesus passed on from there, he saw a man called Matthew sitting at the tax booth, and he said to him, “Follow me.” And he rose and followed him."

.​

Many heard Jesus speak audibly and yet did not follow Him. Only those who heard his word in their heart and received the seed inwardly had followed him. And Matthew was already one of His sheep even before Jesus met him as i showed in John 17:6.

We do not become believers by hearing a voice speaking telepathically in our hearts. We believe after hearing the gospel as contained in scripture.

Rom 10:14-17 "How then will they call on him in whom they have not believed? And how are they to believe in him of whom they have never heard? And how are they to hear without someone preaching? ...."So faith comes from hearing, and hearing through the word of Christ."
This section in Romans 10 I already showed you part of the mystery. Paul seems to be showing that God is the divine preacher who has preached to all men in their hearts and even when a preacher comes and preaches they also have the word of God come to them and so God preaches through the hearts, through preachers and through creation as Paul shows..

Paul ask the questions "How shall they hear without a preacher? Notice the question mark. It is not a exclaimation mark !. These would be natural questions if Paul already said that all can call upon God whoever they are and that the word is close to them all. This word being the word of Christ in them calling and drawing all men. But Paul answer his question and ask have they not heard? he answers YES they have and then he quotes Psalm 19.

"18 But I say, Have they not heard? Yes verily, their sound went into all the earth, and their words unto the ends of the world."
 
Upvote 0

Jenniferdiana

Well-Known Member
Supporter
Jan 7, 2016
1,890
1,212
louisiana
✟174,739.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
God is everywhere and i think anyone can find him if they seek him with all thier might. its not about hearing his voice, its about recognizing him. Jesus says his sheep know his voice and follow him so if you are truly in the holy spirit and know God, then you would be able to recognize him when you find him.. you must keeping have faith and believe you will find him while seeking him..heck God could be posting on this forum right now..haha and you wouldnt know it was him..you see God has no limits he can show up anywhere and sometimes he shows up when you least expect. hey you talked to many people in your life, how do you know one of them wasnt God. only the holy spirit can and will reveal these kinda things to you...etc
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Bible Highlighter

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.
Supporter
Jul 22, 2014
41,433
7,859
...
✟1,187,903.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
I believe part of the reasom Hebrews was written was to help the Jewish believers and perhaps those who were not believers to come to see the work of Christ and the New testament or New Covenant and to come out of the old winskins and embrace the truth of the New Covenant.

But what is interesting is that in Hebrews 8:13 we see that even though the New Covenant had already began with Jesus death and resurrection. The Jewish believers were still coming out of the old and had a mix of both for a time. In fact all through Acts they did. They were in transition from the old to the new that took time as we can see even though Jesus had finished the work and the New Covenant had come. This is clear in many passages. So when I see the words that the diverse washing (baptismos in Greek) and carnal ordinances were imposed on them until the time of reformation. I see this in a two fold way.

Firstly, the washings sacrifices and carnal ordinances were not needed because the reformation from the old to the new had in effect happened already.

But secondly, I see that they did not have a right conscience about these things yet and so they still as believers in Jesus went to the temple, sacrificed animals all through Acts up until about 70 Ad, circumcised both Jews and attempted to do so with some Gentiles, kept the law and were zealous for it and the customs of the Jews and all the rituals of the temple and all the law and works of the temple.

This is clear in scripture I will post a few example in a moment. But we might ask why did they do this? How could God allow this when the New Covenant had started with Jesus death? God is patient and Jesus said they could not bear certain things yet. Imagine Peter when he was going to the Jewish temple on Pentecost telling all the thousands of Jews that the temple was no more, the sacrifices were no more, the priest and rituals and even the ten commandments were done away in their ministration (2 Cor 3:7-). They would not have understood. It took a revelation and many words and events for even Peter to see this fully. They would not have had a good conscience about it until they had knowledge. So they were in the time of reformation. The word "reformation means "to straiten thoroughly".

They seemed to need to be taught these things and so the book of Hebrews, Galatians, parts of Romans and other places seek to help them come to understand the New Covenant and the freedoms in Christ and to help them see the old Covenant is fading away, ready to vanish and decay. Notice the words, clearly spoken there to the Hebrews the old was "ready to vanish, decay and fade away" It hadn't fully in their understanding yet. In 70 Ad it seemed to stop. Also remember that Hebrews was written many years after Christ death.

We also read that Paul had the "gospel of the uncircumcision" and Peter had the gospel of the circumcision". Now I don't believe there are two different gospels one for the Jew and one for the gentile. But the wording is there about Peters going to the Jews and Paul to the gentiles. Peters ministration was called the gospel of the CIRCUMCISION". This word is telling, consider this section and do a study Gal 2:7 KJV . And ask why would this be the case if they were both to go to Jew and gentile and have no distinction? I can only see that God gave them a time of reformation or transition from the old to the new. Jesus told Peter and others to go into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature. But it seems that peter didn't understand this really and needed a vision to go to the gentiles. Even when he went he was somewhat arguing with God and eventually saw Gods work in this. This happened in Acts 10 many years after Christ death. There were still the circumcision crowd that Peter rehrersed what happened for.

here are some clear examples that the early Jewish BELIEVERS in Jesus were still struggling with law and the old covenant and customs of the Jews and animal sacrifices etc.

"17 And when we were come to Jerusalem, the brethren received us gladly.18 And the day following Paul went in with us unto James; and all the elders were present.19 And when he had saluted them, he declared particularly what things God had wrought among the Gentiles by his ministry.20 And when they heard it, they glorified the Lord, and said unto him, Thou seest, brother, how many thousands of Jews there are which believe; and they are all zealous of the law:21 And they are informed of thee, that thou teachest all the Jews which are among the Gentiles to forsake Moses, saying that they ought not to circumcise their children, neither to walk after the customs.22 What is it therefore? the multitude must needs come together: for they will hear that thou art come.23 Do therefore this that we say to thee: We have four men which have a vow on them;24 Them take, and purify thyself with them, and be at charges with them, that they may shave their heads: and all may know that those things, whereof they were informed concerning thee, are nothing; but that thou thyself also walkest orderly, and keepest the law.25 As touching the Gentiles which believe, we have written and concluded that they observe no such thing, save only that they keep themselves from things offered to idols, and from blood, and from strangled, and from fornication.26 Then Paul took the men, and the next day purifying himself with them entered into the temple, to signify the accomplishment of the days of purification, until that an offering should be offered for every one of them."(Acts21:17-26 KJV)

"46 And they, continuing daily with one accord in the temple"(Acts 2:46 KJV)


"Now Peter and John went up together into the temple at the hour of prayer, being the ninth hour."(Acts 3:1 KJV)


"13 And there came a voice to him, Rise, Peter; kill, and eat.14 But Peter said, Not so, Lord; for I have never eaten any thing that is common or unclean.15 And the voice spake unto him again the second time, What God hath cleansed, that call not thou common."(Acts 10:13015 KJV)


"2 And when Peter was come up to Jerusalem, they that were of the circumcision contended with him,3 Saying, Thou wentest in to men uncircumcised, and didst eat with them."(Acts 11:2,3 KJV)


"And certain men which came down from Judaea taught the brethren, and said, Except ye be circumcised after the manner of Moses, ye cannot be saved."(Acts 15:1 KJV)


"5 But there rose up certain of the sect of the Pharisees which believed, saying, That it was needful to circumcise them, and to command them to keep the law of Moses.6 And the apostles and elders came together for to consider of this matter."(Acts 15:5,6 KJV)


"2 Which was well reported of by the brethren that were at Lystra and Iconium.3 Him would Paul have to go forth with him; and took and circumcised him because of the Jews which were in those quarters: for they knew all that his father was a Greek."(Acts 16:2,3 KJV
)

etc etc

I want to reply to this, but I think I will do so when my mind is a little more clearer in the morning.

May God's goodness be upon you, Love of Truth;
And may the Lord bless you and protect you.
 
Upvote 0