An unsupported fiction does address your repeated errors, Aman777.
The recognized first Human farming did not begin just SW of Lake Van, Turkey.
Human civilization did not begin near Lake Van, Turkey.
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The Adam and Eve are in devorce, so it is time to revise the Methodology of Science
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The recognized first Human farming did not begin just SW of Lake Van, Turkey.
Human civilization did not begin near Lake Van, Turkey.
More unsupported fiction, Aman777. Homo sapiens has been on Earth for at least 315,000 years. There is no sign of aliens from other planets interbreeding with Homo sapiens.
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Aman777 said: ↑
False, since Human civilization began on Adam's Earth...
Both statements are True. Adam, the first Human and his descendants, began Human civilization on Adam's Earth, which was totally destroyed in the flood. 2 Peter 3:6 After the Ark arrived in Lake Van, 11,000 years ago, Adam's descendants (Noah and his grandsons) began Human civilization on the present Earth just SW of Lake Van, Turkey in Northern Mesopotamia.
False, since Human civilization began on Adam's Earth...
An unsupported fiction that makes an previous fiction false, Aman777.
You wrote: Human civilization began just southwest of Lake Van which is in Turkey on this planet.
Both statements are True. Adam, the first Human and his descendants, began Human civilization on Adam's Earth, which was totally destroyed in the flood. 2 Peter 3:6 After the Ark arrived in Lake Van, 11,000 years ago, Adam's descendants (Noah and his grandsons) began Human civilization on the present Earth just SW of Lake Van, Turkey in Northern Mesopotamia.
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Then refute me. Show us your map of where the first farming began. Mesopotamia, the land between the Tigris and Euphrates Rivers, is recognized as the Cradle of Civilization on this Planet. Lake Van is a mile high Lake and Noah walked down from the Lake into the valleys of Northern Mesopotamia, unless you can correct historians.
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Aman777 said: ↑
Your finds are of prehistoric mankind which Scripture calls, the sons of God. ...
Humans are not aliens but instead are the children of God. Some teach that Humans are nothing more than evolved Apes because they reject God's Truth in Genesis.
Humans are His kinds or the kind Jesus/Lord God made with His own Hands. Genesis 2:7 Prehistoric people (sons of God) are Their kinds or the kinds God the Trinity created from Water. Genesis 1:21 Many are "willingly ignorant" 2 Peter 3:3-7 that Adam's firmament/Heaven was completely destroyed in the flood. Noah's grandsons married and produced children with prehistoric people on our Earth. Gen 10:8 The same thing happened on Adam's Earth with Cain who had NO other Humans (descendants of Adam) to marry. Gen 4:17
His kinds and Their kinds were made for each other. Otherwise, they could never produce offspring together. Genesis 6:4
Your finds are of prehistoric mankind which Scripture calls, the sons of God. ...
Humans are not aliens but instead are the children of God. Some teach that Humans are nothing more than evolved Apes because they reject God's Truth in Genesis.
Humans are His kinds or the kind Jesus/Lord God made with His own Hands. Genesis 2:7 Prehistoric people (sons of God) are Their kinds or the kinds God the Trinity created from Water. Genesis 1:21 Many are "willingly ignorant" 2 Peter 3:3-7 that Adam's firmament/Heaven was completely destroyed in the flood. Noah's grandsons married and produced children with prehistoric people on our Earth. Gen 10:8 The same thing happened on Adam's Earth with Cain who had NO other Humans (descendants of Adam) to marry. Gen 4:17
His kinds and Their kinds were made for each other. Otherwise, they could never produce offspring together. Genesis 6:4
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A story about an "Adam's Earth" before the Big Bang unsupported by Scripture or science is never true.
You destroy Adam's Earth, Adam, Eve, and their descendants and the entire contents of the universe in the Big Bang 13.8 billion years ago. You make sure that the "first Human and his descendants" died 13.8 billion years ago. You make a story of Adam's descendants (Noah's family) getting onto Earth false.
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Then show us Scripturally where it is wrong. Today's Science is "willingly ignorant" of Adam's world. 2 Peter 3:3
There was NO big bang on Adam's world...AND...Adam and all of his direct descendants, except Noah, were already dead when the flood destroyed his world.
Then please explain HOW and WHEN mindless Nature installed God's superior intelligence Genesis 3:22 into the descendants of the common ancestor of Apes. History records that the first Humans (descendants of Adam) arrived SUDDENLY in the mountains of Ararat. Map: Fertile Cresent, 9000 to 4500 BCE Human civilization on planet Earth can be traced to the arrival of the Ark.
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Freodin
Devout believer in a theologically different God
History records and science confirms that "superior intelligence" was installed in the descendants of the common ancestor of Apes on March 23, 47.183 BC. It was scheduled for 8:30 AM GMT... but you know how unreliable those installation crews are, so it was delayed for almost 6 hours.
What? Makes as much sense as your nonsense, as has exactly the same amount of "historical record".
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Thanks for trying. It's more than the other Darwin followers have done. It seems that NONE of them can tell us the process, which is unlike that of any other living creature and can never be repeated, but changed prehistoric people into Humans (descendants of Adam). Unless someone can describe this process, it must be relegated to unsupported opinion, which is like a religious belief, supported by blind faith.
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Freodin
Devout believer in a theologically different God
Human intelligence is, in a lot of ways, very much like "any other living creature". There is no fundamental difference between the intelligence of humans and other animals.
So there was no change between "prehistoric people" into "humans". Interestingly, you have no way of showing that... neither with scripture, history or science.
What we do have scientific and historical evidence for is the change from humans who didn't do certain stuff into humans that did do certain stuff. That is called "inventions" and "technology".
I have used this example before, and (of course) you simply ignored it. There is no change from "people who didn't fly in heavier-than-air-machines" to "humans". There's just humans who figured out how to do that.
And that can take a while, based on already existing knowledge and technology, societal structures and necessity/usefulness.
This also I had mentioned before, and you ignored it. It took your super-intelligent descendant of Adam, who, by your assertion, already had the knowledge and technology about 5000 years to (re)invent THE WHEEL!
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Here are some verses which confirm my view.
Gen 1:11 ¶ And God said, Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb yielding seed, and the fruit tree yielding fruit after HIS kind,
Who made grass, herbs and trees? Whoever it was, God spoke of Him on the 3rd Day. Hint: His name in the OT is Lord God/YHWH.
Gen 1:21 And God created great whales, and every living creature that moveth, which the waters brought forth abundantly, after THEIR kind, and every winged fowl after HIS kind: and God saw that it was good.
Who is Their unless it's God the Trinity?
This lets us know who HIS is, since Jesus/Lord God made birds to be a help meet to Adam. Genesis 2:19
It's simple since God the Trinity is an invisible Spirit and Lord God/Jesus is the physical incarnation of the invisible Spirit. Does this stay True throughout the Bible? Of course it does.
Gen 7:14 They, and every beast after HIS kind, and all the cattle after THEIR kind, and every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth after HIS kind, and every fowl after HIS kind, every bird of every sort.
Beasts were made by Lord God/Jesus. Genesis 2:19 They are HIS kinds.
Cattle and birds are both THEIR kinds or Trinity kinds and HIS kinds. Genesis 1:21 and Genesis 6:20
Creeping things were made by Lord God/Jesus or HIS kinds at God the Trinity's command. Gen 1:24
Your idea that this is a "unsupportable claim" is thus soundly refuted. Not knowing the difference between God the Trinity's kind and His kind leaves one blind to God's Truth in Genesis. Can you tell us the difference between the "KINDS"? Hint: one is immortal and the other is subject to death.
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Please tell us of ANY other living creature who posts. Only Humans with the ability to reason, post. The Legal System recognizes the difference and doesn't try animals, but instead, tries their Human owners. Humans have the intelligence of God and Adam. Genesis 3:22 Prehistoric people descended from water/LUCA.
Sure I do since no one can tell us How or When we changed from prehistoric to Human intelligence, Scientifically. Neither can they tell us the process which caused this. God does in Genesis 6:4 when He shows that man's/Adam's daughters married prehistoric people (sons of God) and produced offspring like today's Humans.
Historically, the FIRST Human farming happened only 11k years ago in Northern Mesopotamia, just SW of Lake Van, Turkey where the Ark arrived. Genesis 8:4
Your assumption is wrong since it can NEVER be repeated in any other animal. In order to believe in evolution, one MUST have faith in the changeable Theories of mankind while rejecting God's Truth in Genesis.
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Freodin
Devout believer in a theologically different God
This is a gross misinterpretation of the text. You assume that the "his" and "their" refer to the subject of the sentence... but instead it refers to the object.
Let's take the Gen 1:21
"God created [...]whales [...] every living creature that moves [...] after their kind, and every winged fowl after his kind..."
There is only one singular subject in this sentence: God, who created both the whales and other creatures as well as the winged fowls. So using two different numeral pronouns wouldn't make sense here.
Rather the "their kind" refers to the kinds of whales and other creatures... two different types, thus plural, and the "winged fowls", one type, thus singular.
That is uses "after his kind" for the fowls instead of the expected "its" results from the fact that the original hebrew uses only masculine and feminin, but no neutral, pronouns.
As I said: you don't have scriptural backing for your claims.
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Freodin
Devout believer in a theologically different God
"Posting" is a technological product. Not a result of a general difference in intellect.
This should be obvious... because if we followed your reasoning, those ancient city builders from 10.000 years ago... your "descendants of Adam" wouldn't be humans... because they didn't post, didn't write, didn't leave a legal code, didn't use the Internet... DIDN'T KNOW WHAT WHEELS WERE.
Legal codes are not based on scientific understanding, they are societal constructs. It shouldn't surprise you that through the ages, a lot of animals were indeed tried and sentenced by "Legal Systems"... and sometimes even inanimate objects.
Again, if we follow your line of reasoning here, a human, just a few hundred years ago, was the same as a dog, cow, pig... or a churchbell.
There was no "when" we changed from prehistoric to Human intelligence. Intelligence, reasoning, even awareness and self-conscious is a continuum, not a binary attribute.
Your equation of "sons of God" with "prehistoric people" is not backed by the text, nor by scholarly interpretation. In Judaism, there are two different interpretations for this phrase in Genesis 6:4. Either they refer to the descendants of Seth, mingling with the descendants of Cain... both Adamic lines. Or, the more common interpretation, they refer to angels. The second interpretation is the one commonly found in Christianity.
Every existing interpretation, except yours, always refers to the Adamic line as the "sons of God"... the use of "son(s) of man" always is used to point out the humanity of the object, never in contrast to another human species.
"Historically", as far as we know, this is correct. So what? Anything in human history was done somewhere somewhen by someone first.
As I said: historically, the FIRST human powered flight of a heavier-than-air-maschine happened only 115 years ago, in Kitty Hawk, USA.
That doesn't mean the Brothers Wright were the first Humans, or had some kind of "superior intelligence".
The wheel. Start with the wheel. Then progress through metal working, writing, chemistry, flight, computers and the internet. Then compare that with things like pottery, artistic expression or the production of tools and the usage of fire.
You haven't even adressed the "assumption" I was making: what you proclaim as a sign - as proof - for a change in intelligence by introduction of a different human species... that is just another of the technological advancemenst made by just one species of humans.
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Gobbledegoop.
What did God the Trinity model fowls after? Answer: His kind, or the kind which Jesus makes from the dust of the ground on the 6th Day Genesis 2:19 and Adam names. Can you tell us the reason for God to do this? Hint: It's the direct cause of the 7.5 Billion Humans alive today.
Do you claim that ancient theologians could understand Genesis? IF so, read Daniel 12:4 about the people of the last days, with the increased knowledge necessary to understand Genesis or any of God's Word. Hint: God hid His scientific Truth in Genesis and tells us it's the way God works:
Pro 25:2 It is the glory of God to conceal a thing: but the honour of kings is to search out a matter.
All you have presented is the theology of ancient men. It's easier to refute them than to refute what is actually written through the eyes of a Christian of the last days, with the increased knowledge which trumps ancient religious views.
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BUT, they had the ability to know both good and evil, which only Humans (descendants of Adam) and God have. Genesis 3:22 It has nothing to do with long gradual periods of time and billions of random mutations producing the superior intelligence of creation. That's the fantasy story of some. Reality shows that prehistoric people were smarter than the other animals but they never built a house or planted a crop until the Ark arrived and brought the first descendants of Adam (Humans) to this planet of people who descended from Apes.
Superstitious people who did NOT have the increased intelligence of the present last days, did a whole bunch of stupid things because they were uneducated people. Today, we don't put animals on trial because we know they are too dumb to understand the charges made against them.
Have you seen me promote the wonderful ways of our forgotten ancestors? Of course not since all of man's righteousnesses are as filthy rags, compared to God. Isa 64:6
Is it just a coincidence that ALL of the traits of modern men SUDDENLY appeared exactly where God told us the Ark arrived? Farming, home building, city building and EVERY other trait of modern Humans FIRST appeared in the valleys just SW of Lake Van, Turkey in the mountains of Ararat. The area is called the Fertile Crescent and it's in Northern Mesopotamia, the land between the Tigris and Euphrates Rivers. It's also known as the Cradle of Civilization on this planet. Map: Fertile Cresent, 9000 to 4500 BCE
Angels don't have sex, are today in chains under the darkness, and are not made of FLESH, which rules them out. Cain killed Abel and went to the land of Nod on the east of Eden and married one of the "every living creature that moveth" which came forth from Water on the 5th Day. Genesis 1:21 Remember that Adam knew he was naked because he had lost his image like Jesus and was found made in the image of sinful FLESH. Gen 3:7 IOW, God the Trinity's kind (prehistoric people) married and produced children with Lord God/Jesus' kind Genesis 6:4 because we were made for each other.
Prehistoric people were made of flesh and bone exactly as Humans (descendants of Adam). This is scientifically TRUE since prehistoric people came forth from Water and Humans were made from the Dust of the ground. In this manner, God has produced the 7.5 Billion Humans (descendants of Adam) alive today on our Earth.
Do you follow all the teaching of ancient Jewish theologians?
Sure. The demonstration of prehistoric people and Adam's descendants producing offspring FIRST took place on Adam's world which was totally destroyed in the flood. "And also after that", Genesis 6:4 the same thing happened on the present Earth. When the Ark arrived 11k years ago, there were some 1 million prehistoric people already here. Today's Humans are the intellectual GIANTS, spoken of in that verse. We have the DNA of prehistoric people AND the superior intelligence inherited from Adam.
No other living being has ever made an airplane. It was one of Adam's descendants, and his brother, who first flew at Kitty Hawk. It's proof of the superior intelligence which only Adam's descendants have inherited.
Read Genesis 4:16-22 and you will find that Cain's descendants had inherited Adam's superior intelligence long BEFORE it showed up on this planet in the mountains of Ararat. Prehistoric man showed NONE of these traits until AFTER the Ark arrived. History agrees.
In less that 1% of the time since prehistoric mankind diverged from Chimps, Humans (descendants of Adam) have gone from Caves to the Moon and back safely. What sort of superior intelligence do you expect? Humans are God's children and we are a Special Creation and we did NOT descend from the common ancestor of Apes. It's time to stop force teaching our children the false assumptions of the ToE.
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Freodin
Devout believer in a theologically different God
Grammar. Quite useful, and a sign of "superior intelligence".
You might try it some time.
Again, a faulty interpretation of the text. The "after their kind" does not refer to some sort of model, but is a reference to the different types of the animals mentioned.
This is also evident in contrast to the terms used in the context of the creation of humans... which were deliberately described as being created after a model: God created them "in his image".
Well, they wrote Genesis, and it was the authors' students and successors who did the interpretation. Yes, I would claim that the people who spoke the language and were directly involved in the culture that produced this text would understand it better than some forigner who claims to have "increased knowledge" just by the date of his birth.
Can you point me to any people beyond you who have this special interpretation of the text?
Hey, there are a lot of "Christains of the last days" right now on this board. Maybe you should start a poll to see what they all think about your views?
That again is one of these assertions that you cannot back up by history, science or scripture.
History and science do not make any statement about the ability or inability of early humans and humanoids to "know both good and evil", and scripture does not even support your view that there are other "prehistoric people" creations... or what they thought about good and evil.
That, my friend, is what science really says... instead of the "fantasy story" that you claim it tells to support your claims.
"Prehistoric people" - humans - build houses some hundreds of thousands of years before your "Ark" story. They didn't have widespread agriculture, though to which degree they might have "planted crops" we simply do not know. There isn't a lot of evidence that can help to distinguish between a random foraging of crops and a deliberate planting of some plants.
But again: through all of history, somewhere, somewhen, someone did something first. That this happens in not a sign that some "descendants" arrived and brought with them "superior" intelligence.
If that was the case, you would need a lot more "Arks" arriving that your 11.000 years old version.
No, not superstitious people without increased intelligence. "Descendants of Adam" with "superior intelligence". You want to have it both ways: super-intelligent humans who start "all of the traits of modern men"... and in the same time "superstitious people without the increased intelligence".
Hey, don't slander these wonderful descendants of Adam!
You keep making this claim... and it is just WRONG. It didn't appear "suddenly", and your version of "ALL of the traits of modern men" is just nonsense. You simply pick and chose... and distort.
Home building did not first appear in the Fertile Crescent. Neither did the very modern human trait of tool production, or the very human and very basic concept of pottery.
A possible interpretation, but not a conclusive one. You cannot rule out angels.
You are adding to the Bible again. This is not what the text says. It only says that Cain went away and "knew" his wife. It doesn't specify who this wife was, and it definitly doesn't say that Cain married one of the "living creatures which came from water".
A very common interpretation is that he married one of his sisters.
Again, the text doesn't say that. It does on the other hand say God directly created man and woman - Adam and Eve - and told them to be fruitful, multiply and fill the earth. No mention that they should procreate with any other creation. Quite the contrary: every other animal was brought to Adam for him to name... and chose a mate. But none of these "creations" was the right mate for him... thus the creation of Eve.
There is no mention of a different sort of "prehistoric people" in the text.
This is scientifically nonsense. There is nothing in science that makes a distinction between "humans made from dust" and "people comming from water". There is no - absolutely no - basic scientific difference between "humans" and "prehistoric people".
You can make such a weird distiction as long as you like... but there is no science to support you in that regard.
I don't "follow" their teaching at all. But I accept that they have a better understanding of their own texts, history and culture than someone who constantly demonstrates that he has no understanding of the "history" and "science" that he claims as support.
Please explain - consistently - your versions of "worlds", and your timeline again. I have enormous difficulties following your version of what happened when and where.
No, this is not "proof of superior intelligence". It is a result of accumulated knowledge and technological progress.
The Wright Brother's were not any more "intelligent" than their father and grandfather, their ancestors down through the millennia, back to the very time you say they came to this world... and they were not more "intelligent" than the "prehistoric people" that you decry.
And AGAIN I will point out all the "traits of modern men" - all the stuff that you keep ignoring - that your "men of superior intelligence" missed for generations after generations. Traits that you say they already possessed... but somehow lost during the Ark-event.
Metal crafting is a basic trait of ALL modern civilizations. The "descendants of Adam" with their "superior intelligence" forgot it... for millennia. Instead of using their "superior intelligence" they had to resort to stone tools. Tools that only varied in degrees from the tools that the "prehistoric people" had already used for thousands of years.
Ok, metal crafting is already quite advanced and requires some effort to establish... but these beings of "superior intelligence" also forgot THE WHEEL! For MILLENNIA, they couldn't figure out how to build a frigging WHEEL!
And they could have used this very well. Again, they used the same pottery that the "prehistoric people" - these unintelligent creatures - had used for thousands of years.
But they forgot how to use a pottery wheel.
"Prehistory man" showed a lot of these traits. Tool making, pottery, use of fire, weaving, house building, social structures... history and science disagree with you.
In about 2% of the time you claim "humans" are here on Earth, we have gone from a civilization that relied on animals as main means of transport to the Moon. This is not because the humans of the last two centuries have a "superior intelligence" to their ancestors. They just have more accumulated knowledge and technology.
The Theory of Evolution explains the diversity of life and the relation between species very well. That people like you, who simply do not understand it, try their worst to replace it with some sort of unbased mysticism is one of the reasons why there still are people who do not understand it. Accumulated knowledge and technology help us learn... but in the same way, superstition and magical thinking hold us back... even set us back.
Our modern world is build on the accumulated knowledge of the millennia before us... but we have to preserve it. If people like you had their will, we would still - again - live in tallow lit hovels, not knowing how to smelt metal or throw a wheel.
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