PRAYING TO MARY AND THE SAINTS?

Not David · Nov 29, 2018

LoveGodsWord said:
Thanks David but where does it say in these scriptures that these are Mary and the saints?

The Elders are the Saints.

LoveGodsWord · Nov 29, 2018

David Cabrera said:
The Elders are the Saints.

How does this relate to God being the God of the living and not the dead?

Not David · Nov 29, 2018

LoveGodsWord said:
How does this relate to God being the God of the living and not the dead?

Well, I showed you with Scriptures how Saints are alive and aware of prayers in Paradise. That's something difficult to deny.

Sanoy · Nov 29, 2018

There was a time when Saul desired a word from Samuel, who had already passed away. Saul was unable to ask anything of Samuel so he hires the witch of Endor to call him up from the grave. This was despised by God. Saul could not speak to the dead without a witch so where in the new testament do we learn that we now have the ability to speak to the dead and that it is now permissible?

Not David · Nov 29, 2018

Sanoy said:
There was a time when Saul desired a word from Samuel, who had already passed away. Saul was unable to ask anything of Samuel so he hires the witch of Endor to call him up from the grave. This was despised by God. Saul could not speak to the dead without a witch so where in the new testament do we learn that we now have the ability to speak to the dead and that it is now permissible?

One thing is chatting with the dead in presence, and other thing is asking them. We don't want them to appear to us in Spirit. Plus, Samuel was in the Sheol/Hades before the coming of Christ.

prodromos · Nov 29, 2018

LoveGodsWord said:
Thanks brother but are they not dead?

No, Christ has defeated death, so all who die in Christ are alive in Him.

God is the God of the living and not the dead the scrptures tell us.

When Christ made that statement He referred specifically to Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. Are they not dead in your opinion?

Can you show any scriptures that tell us that we should pray to Mary and the saints?

James 5:16
Romans 15:30
Ephesians 6:19
Colossians 4:3
1 Thessalonians 1:2
2 Thessalonians 3:1
1 Samuel 12:23

prodromos · Nov 29, 2018

Sanoy said:
There was a time when Saul desired a word from Samuel, who had already passed away. Saul was unable to ask anything of Samuel so he hires the witch of Endor to call him up from the grave. This was despised by God. Saul could not speak to the dead without a witch so where in the new testament do we learn that we now have the ability to speak to the dead and that it is now permissible?

That is seeking knowledge or information from the dead, otherwise known as necromancy. All we do is ask that they pray for us.

Blade · Nov 29, 2018

Pfft.. who knows...well its said by some goes back to 250ad blah blah blah.. And that Christ is no longer on the earth.. you know man at all now.. just GOD ..So... Mary.. Angels.. Saints..comes in to play.

I read where some WORD what is written in Rev 6:10... some used the word interseeding...yet.. what they asked God was "before you will judge and avenge our blood on those who dwell on the earth"..OUR blood.. the ones that already died and are in heaven. It was not for anyone STILL here.

I've had a dream where my mom was there.. I knew in the dream she had passed not so long ago. So.. as the word says.. TEST the spirits.. I said.. ok if your my mom...say its by the blood of JESUS we are washed.. it mumbled something and vanished. So many do no test the spirits. For me.. I can not find ONE part of the word that even HINTS that I should 1st take my pray to some person. For them to then go to God. Did they not ask Christ how to pray? What did He say? Then Acts-Rev... you would THINK this would have been in there OVER AND OVER..how would the sweet sweet Holy Spirit forget this part.

So many times we have this messiah that said "what ever you desire when you pray" "What ever you ask the FATHER in my name.. what EVER you ask the Father in my name".. what ever you ask me I will Whatever you ask in my name, this I will do, that that Father may be glorified in the Son."

In my NAME "And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;18 They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover."

I say.. praise GOD...but for me.. if its out side the word... I will not touch it. As for your other questions.. forgive me.. I would only be speculating.

LoveGodsWord · Nov 29, 2018

David Cabrera said:
Well, I showed you with Scriptures how Saints are alive and aware of prayers in Paradise. That's something difficult to deny.

Thanks brother for your thoughts but I do not believe the scripture you provide are referring to the saints in heaven or have you provided any scripture to show that we are to pray to Mary and the saints.

LoveGodsWord · Nov 29, 2018

prodromos said:
That is seeking knowledge or information from the dead, otherwise known as necromancy. All we do is ask that they pray for us.

But brother where does it say in God's WORD that we are to pray to Mary and the saints?

eleos1954 · Nov 29, 2018

LoveGodsWord said:
Hello brothers and sister.

First off and right to the point. I believe God has his people in EVERY CHURCH. Hoever, I believe the time in soming and now is that REVELATION 18 teaches us that many of the Churches of today have fallen away from God's WORD and God is calling his people out to worship him in Spirit and in truth *JOHN 10:16; JOHN 4:23.

1. I am just wondering where did the practice of praying to Mary and the Saints come from and what are your thoughts about this practice, is it biblical or not?

Wikipedia states this:
Intercession of the saints is a doctrine held by the Eastern Orthodox, Oriental Orthodox and Roman Catholic Churches. The practice of praying through saints can be found in Christian writings from the 3rd century onwards. The 4th-century Apostles' Creed states belief in the communion of saints, which certain Christian churches interpret as supporting the intercession of saints.

1 Timothy 2

5For there is one God and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus, 6who gave Himself as a ransom for all—the testimony that was given at just the right time.

I think really the belief is tied to what one believes about the state of the dead and immortality.

Paul pretty well sums it up here ... but if one believes outside of this then one will and do believe all kinds of things.

The Return of the Lord

13Brothers, we do not want you to be uninformed about those who sleep in death, so that you will not grieve like the rest, who are without hope. 14For since we believe that Jesus died and rose again, we also believe that God will bring with Jesus those who have fallen asleep in Him.

15By the word of the Lord, we declare to you that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who have fallen asleep. 16For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a loud command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will be the first to rise. 17After that, we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will always be with the Lord.

18Therefore encourage one another with these words.

God Bless.

There are 2 resurrections - not continuing resurrections.

Sanoy · Nov 29, 2018

prodromos said:
That is seeking knowledge or information from the dead, otherwise known as necromancy. All we do is ask that they pray for us.

David Cabrera said:
One thing is chatting with the dead in presence, and other thing is asking them. We don't want them to appear to us in Spirit. Plus, Samuel was in the Sheol/Hades before the coming of Christ.

Saul could not speak to Samuel. He needed a witch to accomplish that. So where do we learn that we now have the ability to speak to the dead? Where do we learn that it is okay to speak to the dead as long as we don't see them? There should be a foundational verse for these practices and the nuances therein, what are those verses?

Monk Brendan · Nov 29, 2018

\\1. I am just wondering where did the practice of praying to Mary and the Saints come from and what are your thoughts about this practice, is it biblical or not?\\

Mariology can be understood only in the context of Christology.The only Marian doctrine I will discuss on computer sites such is that is to insist the Virgin's Son is God Incarnate.

\\2. Mystery of iniquity, the antichrist, Babylon the Great the mother of harlots, any thoughts?\\

There is only one nation or people that is continually personified in the Bible as a harlot, and it's not Rome.

Rather, it's Israel after the flesh.

\\3. Who are the daughter harlots of Babylon the Great REVELATION 17:1-5?\\

If you insist that Rome is the Babylon of Rev 17, that would mean that ALL Protestants, including the SDA, are her children.

EzekielsWheels · Nov 29, 2018

Wait now I'm confused. It seems people are arguing that these believers who passed away are both dead and alive? How can they be both dead and alive in Christ at the same time?

EzekielsWheels · Nov 29, 2018

David Cabrera said:
The Elders are the Saints.

I believe all the believers are saints.

EzekielsWheels · Nov 29, 2018

Maybe we should also define "saint." I believe scripture refers to the saints as the members of the church. I don't recall any special designation of "saint" for particular believers. If you want to make a new definition of saint and apply it to particularly venerated and deceased believers that's fine but I don't think that's the commonly understood biblical definition of the word.

I'm also not per se against veneration as I believe in one of the epistles they venerate the patriarchs and other believers of note like Enoch.

Still, all of that being said, saying they're alive, saying they can be venerated, why are we putting some people above others? Why would I ask the Virgin Mary to intercede for me and not my brother in the church? How is this not showing partiality and preference of one person to another? It's reminds me of Dante's Paradiso where he portrayed certain people being closer to God than others but that's not biblical (at least not from anything that comes to mind at this time).

LoveGodsWord · Nov 29, 2018

prodromos said:
No, Christ has defeated death, so all who die in Christ are alive in Him.

When Christ made that statement He referred specifically to Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. Are they not dead in your opinion?

James 5:16
Romans 15:30
Ephesians 6:19
Colossians 4:3
1 Thessalonians 1:2
2 Thessalonians 3:1
1 Samuel 12:23

Hello brother, none of those scriptures tell us that we are to pray to Mary and the saints now do they?

LoveGodsWord · Nov 29, 2018

Hello brother Brendan, nice to see you and thanks for sharing your view. Some comments for your consideration are added below.

Monk Brendan said:
\\1. I am just wondering where did the practice of praying to Mary and the Saints come from and what are your thoughts about this practice, is it biblical or not?\\

Mariology can be understood only in the context of Christology.The only Marian doctrine I will discuss on computer sites such is that is to insist the Virgin's Son is God Incarnate.

So is there a reason for your silence brother (e.g No scripture)?

Monk Brendan said:
\\2. Mystery of iniquity, the antichrist, Babylon the Great the mother of harlots, any thoughts?\\

There is only one nation or people that is continually personified in the Bible as a harlot, and it's not Rome.

Rather, it's Israel after the flesh.

Isn't ISRAEL a representation of God's Church in the NEW COVENANT of all those who BELIEVE and FOLLOW God's WORD? When ISRAEL did not BELIEVE and FOLLOW God's WORD it was called a Harlot. If God's Church today is spiritual ISRAEL if it departds from God's WORD and ceases to follow it then does it not become a Harlot according to the scriptures?

Monk Brendan said:
\\3. Who are the daughter harlots of Babylon the Great REVELATION 17:1-5?\\

If you insist that Rome is the Babylon of Rev 17, that would mean that ALL Protestants, including the SDA, are her children.

Not really brother it says in the scriptures in REVELATION 17:1-5 that the identity of BABYLON is that it is a GREAT harlot (Harlot) that is the mother of harlots. A harlot or harlot according to the scriptures is a church (ecclesiastes; assemby of believers) that departs from God's WORD and does not follow it. As the scriptures state the mother Church has many daughters. It does not say that every daughter is a harlot or God would not have a people.

The key question then is who is God's true Church according to the scriptures?

Thanks for sharing your thoughts however brother. Nice to see someone elses view.

LoveGodsWord · Nov 29, 2018

Maria Billingsley said:
1) It is not biblical it is dogma made from man.
November 1, 451: The Council of Chalcedon, the fourth ecumenical council, closes. The Chalcedonian Creed is issued, which re-asserts Jesus as True God and True Man and the dogma of the Virgin Mary as the Mother of God.

2) "Anti-Christ only shows up in scripture John's gospels. He speaks of anyone who does not believe in Christ is an antichrist. It is not a future world leader.
1 John 4:3
and every spirit that does not confess that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is not of God. And this is the spirit of the Antichrist, which you have heard was coming, and is now already in the world.

3) Pre 70ad Jerusalem

Hi Maria, great post and very informative. Thanks very much for sharing this. I must have missed it earlier. So in your view is anyone that does not believe and follow God's WORD the Antichrist? What if these people do not know any better?

Thanks for sharing Maria, great post and very informative.

Maria Billingsley · Nov 29, 2018

LoveGodsWord said:
Hi Maria, great post and very informative. Thanks very much for sharing this. I must have missed it earlier. So in your view is anyone that does not believe and follow God's WORD the Antichrist? What if these people do not know any better?

Thanks for sharing Maria, great post and very informative.

I believe it refers to anyone who knows who Christ is but rejects Him. They go out of their way to rebuke Him and His teachings.
It is unfortunate this term no longer holds its true meaning.
Blessings

PRAYING TO MARY AND THE SAINTS?

I'm back!

Well-Known Member

I'm back!

Well-Known Member

I'm back!

Senior Veteran

Senior Veteran

Veteran

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

God is Love

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Similar threads