How do pro-abortion Christians reconcile their views with pro-life scripture?

Mountainmanbob said:

More study may be required?
Life begins when the sperm enters the egg. Has one ever observed that tiny heart beating in the womb? Who can really say that's not alive? And their God does not recognize it and know everything about it?

M-Bob

Click to expand...

You may need to qualify that somewhat. Life existed before conception. A sperm and egg are living are they not?

sfs said:

See, this is what I mean about not seeing a persuasive argument. This is usually what I see instead.

Click to expand...

No one has ever given a persuasive argument in support of abortion. The only innocent one in almost every pregnancy is the baby. It is always innocent.

Yarddog said:

You may need to qualify that somewhat. Life existed before conception. A sperm and egg are living are they not?

Click to expand...

True as they genetically belong to the parents respectively. Yet when joined a new life distinct from the parents is formed.

Sadly, many Christians are contaminated with the beliefs of the world around them, on various issues. But how anyone who calls themselves Christian can reconcile the brutal slaughter of little girls and boys during the first nine months of their lives with "Thou Shalt Not Kill" is beyond me.

Yarddog said:

You may need to qualify that somewhat. Life existed before conception. A sperm and egg are living are they not?

Click to expand...

Okay
I was just trying to make a point with the non-believers.
For anyone that believes should not support abortion.
M-Bob

I don't believe any of the hard problems are cut a dyed simple with one verse solutions.

I think there are much better forms of birth control than abortion, and the general well being of all people would be more easily addressed in the grand scheme of things by adopting whatever method sits within your frame of reference.

There are a range of medical outcomes which suggest that abortion may be, given our limited frame of reference, the best option. This would clearly be seen where continuing the pregnancy would be unwise for the wellbeing of the mother. For many years childbirth was the most dangerous procedure that many women faced, and many women died from it.

There are certainly cases where the continuance of the pregnancy is likely to be psychologically traumatic for the woman, and certainly cases of rape and abuse may be cases in point.

In the grand scheme of things I, like all Christians I imagine, am in favour of the protection of life, and would not see abortion as a go to position, but neither do I believe that we should take it off the table, as there are times when it represents a loving response to the situation. We live in an imperfect world and sometimes we have imperfect solutions. I just can't treat it as a black and white issues. I mean no disrespect to those who do, however I do not feel I could embrace such a position, I am convinced that my faith in Christ calls me to do my best to discern the most loving response in any given situation.

Philip_B said:

I don't believe any of the hard problems are cut a dyed simple with one verse solutions.

I think there are much better forms of birth control than abortion, and the general well being of all people would be more easily addressed in the grand scheme of things by adopting whatever method sits within your frame of reference.

There are a range of medical outcomes which suggest that abortion may be, given our limited frame of reference, the best option. This would clearly be seen where continuing the pregnancy would be unwise for the wellbeing of the mother. For many years childbirth was the most dangerous procedure that many women faced, and many women died from it.

There are certainly cases where the continuance of the pregnancy is likely to be psychologically traumatic for the woman, and certainly cases of rape and abuse may be cases in point.

In the grand scheme of things I, like all Christians I imagine, am in favour of the protection of life, and would not see abortion as a go to position, but neither do I believe that we should take it off the table, as there are times when it represents a loving response to the situation. We live in an imperfect world and sometimes we have imperfect solutions. I just can't treat it as a black and white issues. I mean no disrespect to those who do, however I do not feel I could embrace such a position, I am convinced that my faith in Christ calls me to do my best to discern the most loving response in any given situation.

Click to expand...

There’s no loving conclusion in any case for the offspring aborted.

Even when the life of the mother is in danger I’m sure the mother would not think it was a loving situation.

At least in the US 98% of abortions procured are elective where the pregnant woman and child are healthy. I think what you wrote addresses the 2%.

Before Roe v Wade every US state had clauses to protect the pregnant woman’s life. Roe was about elective abortions.

Now in cases of rape or incest, although what has happened to the woman is a heinous crime and trauma, I ask the question what did the child developing in the womb actually do to be horribly terminated (killed).

One would have to view such life in the womb as less than human to the pregnant woman and how do we justify such a view as Christians? Especially when our Lord the Divine Logos when joined to His humanity was from the very beginning, conception.

Luke 1: ESV

26In the sixth month the angel Gabriel was sent from God to a city of Galilee named Nazareth, 27to a virgin betrothedbto a man whose name was Joseph, of the house of David. And the virgin’s name was Mary. 28And he came to her and said, “Greetings, O favored one, the Lord is with you!”c 29But she was greatly troubled at the saying, and tried to discern what sort of greeting this might be. 30And the angel said to her, “Do not be afraid, Mary, for you have found favor with God. 31And behold, you will conceive in your womb and bear a son, and you shall call his name Jesus.

Junker P Hoodwink said:

Proverbs 139:13,
Jeremiah 1:5,
Job 31:15,
Psalm 22:10,

Click to expand...

(We imagine) Jesus knew this scripture by heart:

Proverbs 7:5
that they may keep you from the adulteress, from the stranger with seductive words.
Proverbs 22:14
The mouth of an adulteress is a deep pit; he who is cursed by the LORD will fall into it.
Proverbs 23:27
For a prostitute is a deep pit, and an adulteress is a narrow well.
Leviticus 20:10
If a man commits adultery with another man's wife--with the wife of his neighbor--both the adulterer and the adulteress must surely be put to death.

And yet, here is Jesus' response:

10 Jesus straightened up and asked her, "Woman, where are they? Has no one condemned you?"
11"No one, sir," she said. "Then neither do I condemn you,"Jesus declared.

Hebrews 8
12 For I will forgive their iniquities and will remember their sins no more.”
13 By speaking of a new covenant, He has made the first one obsolete;
and what is obsolete and aging will soon disappear.


So if a woman has an abortion, this is how Jesus would respond as well.

Junker P Hoodwink said:

Proverbs 139:13, “For you formed my inward parts; you knitted me together in my mother’s womb.”Jeremiah 1:5, “Before you were in the womb I knew you, before you were born I set you apart; I appointed you as the prophet of nations.”Job 31:15, “Did not he who made me in the womb make them? Did not the same one form us both within our mothers?”Psalm 22:10, “From birth I was cast on you; from my mother’s womb you have been my God.”

Click to expand...

We should not interfere with a pregnant woman's life and decisions that are life and death for her and her family future.

Just as we would not wish others to make such choices for us.

This is the essence of all that is taught in the law and the prophets

Junker P Hoodwink said:

You're in denial over the clear-cut evidence that the Bible supports the notion that life begins at conception.

Click to expand...

Text isn’t evidence.

SkyWriting said:

We should not interfere with a pregnant woman's life and decisions that are life and death for her and her family future.






Just as we would not wish others to make such choices for us.

This is the essence of all that is taught in the law and the prophets

Click to expand...

Life and death situation?
It's almost silly to put that out there because that is almost never and we mean never the situation.
M-Bob

Mountainmanbob said:

Life and death situation?
It's almost silly to put that out there because that is almost never and we mean never the situation.
M-Bob

Click to expand...

Fertilized eggs or zygotes fail to implant or reach birth stage over 50% of the time.
So every sex act is a exercise in death over 50% of the time. You just have to roll with the facts when you are procreating.

In Africa, 1 in 10 children die after birth due to conditions.

The Bible says we should allow women to control their own conditions
and not dictate for them.

Allow women the same birth decisions
where you would want for others to mind their own.....
For this is the essence of the Law and the prophets.
Child mortality rate

Mountainmanbob said:

Life and death situation?
It's almost silly to put that out there because that is almost never and we mean never the situation.
M-Bob

Click to expand...

Try arguing against this:

I hold pregnant women in the same esteem,
as you would wish others to think about you.
For this is the essence of the Law and the prophets.

SkyWriting said:

The Bible says we should allow women to control their own conditions
and not dictate for them.





Allow women the same birth decisions
where you would want for others to mind their own.....
For this is the essence of the Law and the prophets.
Child mortality rate

Click to expand...

Bible says nothing in regards to suggest that women should ever abort.

It also says that they should be submissive.

True some don't like those messages but, some just don't believe in the Bible.
M-Bob

Men should love their wives as Christ loved the church

SkyWriting said:

(We imagine) Jesus knew this scripture by heart:

Proverbs 7:5
that they may keep you from the adulteress, from the stranger with seductive words.
Proverbs 22:14
The mouth of an adulteress is a deep pit; he who is cursed by the LORD will fall into it.
Proverbs 23:27
For a prostitute is a deep pit, and an adulteress is a narrow well.
Leviticus 20:10
If a man commits adultery with another man's wife--with the wife of his neighbor--both the adulterer and the adulteress must surely be put to death.

And yet, here is Jesus' response:

10 Jesus straightened up and asked her, "Woman, where are they? Has no one condemned you?"
11"No one, sir," she said. "Then neither do I condemn you,"Jesus declared.

Hebrews 8
12 For I will forgive their iniquities and will remember their sins no more.”
13 By speaking of a new covenant, He has made the first one obsolete;
and what is obsolete and aging will soon disappear.


So if a woman has an abortion, this is how Jesus would respond as well.

Click to expand...

So I've seen this come up several times from numerous members and today I will address it.

The story of adulteress women

John 7:53-8:11 for the NIV. And the KJV has completely removed it.

When a women is caught in adultery and the crowd is wanting to stone her but Jesus steps in to stop them- 'let he without sin cast the first stone'.

Forgery.

This story cannot be found in the oldest available manuscripts and has been added some time after. Either by error or personal bias,we don't know.

This story never sat well with me.

Jesus forgiving a harlot on the basis that if a person has sinned,ever, they got no authority to righteously judge a persons behavior? That being the case,how do we preach,rebuke or do anything as all have sinned...never made sense to me.

Our lord said his sheep hear his voice,that time I wasn't hearing his voice because it was absent.

That's how we know what to believe.

I wish people would stop using that false story.

sfs said:

Says nothing about when we should start treating the unborn as humans -

Click to expand...

The bible isn't necessary to know this sin. At conception there is an individual being human. Science doesn't classify species according to a particular stage of development. Unless one thinks it's alright to kill a human being, abortion is a no brainer. Someone mentioned a soul or when we are considered human. When a soul is present isn't necessary to know because life is a continuum, and the one celled zygote is being human. Is it ok to kill a human being?

Eloy Craft said:

Is it ok to kill a human being?

Click to expand...

Yes. Of course it is. There is no prohibition against killing in the Bible. In fact God frequently commands it in the Old Testament. There is only a prohibition against unlawful killing. The sixth commandment says “You shall not murder."

Then I should have askedis it ok to

Jon Osterman said:

Yes. Of course it is. There is no prohibition against killing in the Bible. In fact God frequently commands it in the Old Testament. There is only a prohibition against unlawful killing. The sixth commandment says “You shall not murder."

Click to expand...

Then I should rephrase the question. Is it ok to kill an innocent human being?

SkyWriting said:

ertilized eggs or zygotes fail to implant or reach birth stage over 50% of the time.
So every sex act is a exercise in death over 50% of the time. You just have to roll with the facts when you are procreating.

Click to expand...

Sky, this does seem like a conundrum but it's not. Just as human life lost in a natural disaster doesn't impose guilt on those who survive, human life lost within the limitations of human reproduction doesn't impose a moral dilemma on those who survive with one exception for both. The need to expand the limitations. We do that naturally.

Eloy Craft said:

The bible isn't necessary to know this sin. At conception there is an individual being human.

Click to expand...

Science can't tell us that. There is no scientific test for "individual human".

Eloy Craft said:

Science doesn't classify species according to a particular stage of development.

Click to expand...

Science also doesn't tell us whether a fertilized egg -- which might become an individual human adult, or a pair of individual human adults, or one part of an individual human adult -- should itself be considered an individual human.