Was 1948 the Regathering of Israel in Bible Prophecy?

LittleLambofJesus said:

How do you know none of Ephraim has returned?

And yes, I am aware that Dan and the half tribe of Ephraim are left out of Revelation........Manasseh, 1st born of Joseph, is in the place Dan should be.

Genesis 49:
1 And Jacob called his sons and said, “Gather together, that I may tell you what shall befall you in the last days:
2 “Gather together and hear, you sons of Jacob,
And listen to Israel your father.

16 “Dan shall judge his people
As one of the tribes of Israel.
17 Dan shall be a serpent by the way, A viper by the path,
That bites the horse's heels So that its rider shall fall backward


Revelation 7:4-8
1. Judah = "I will praise the Lord" 2. Reuben = "He has looked on me" 3. Gad = "Granted good fortune" 4. Asher = "Happy am I" 5. Naphtali = "My wrestling" 6. Manasseh = "Making me to forget" 7. Simeon = "God hears me" 8. Levi = "Joined to me" 9. Issachar = "Purchased Me" 10. Zebulun = "Dwelling" 11. Joseph = "God will add to me" 12. Benjamin = "Son of His right hand"

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jgr said:

It has no reference to ancient promises, for the gifts and the calling are terms associated exclusively with those who have put their faith in Christ.

Upon whom does God bestow His gifts?

Romans 12:6
Having then gifts differing according to the grace that is given to us, whether prophecy, let us prophesy according to the proportion of faith;

1 Corinthians 12:1
Now concerning spiritual gifts, brethren, I would not have you ignorant.

1 Corinthians 12:4
Now there are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit.

1 Corinthians 12:9
To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit;

1 Corinthians 12:28
And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues.

1 Corinthians 14:12
Even so ye, forasmuch as ye are zealous of spiritual gifts, seek that ye may excel to the edifying of the church.

God's gifts were, and are, not bestowed upon Paul's countrymen according to the flesh, enemies of the gospel.
They are bestowed exclusively upon God's "all Israel" remnant of His Holy Chosen People -- His Church.
To them, and to no others, His gifts are irrevocable.


To whom is God's calling directed?

1 Corinthians 1:26
For ye see your calling, brethren, how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called:

1 Corinthians 7:20
Let every man abide in the same calling wherein he was called.

Ephesians 1:18
The eyes of your understanding being enlightened; that ye may know what is the hope of his calling, and what the riches of the glory of his inheritance in the saints,

Ephesians 4:4
There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;

2 Thessalonians 1:11
Wherefore also we pray always for you, that our God would count you worthy of this calling, and fulfil all the good pleasure of his goodness, and the work of faith with power:

2 Timothy 1:9
Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,

Hebrews 3:1
Wherefore, holy brethren, partakers of the heavenly calling, consider the Apostle and High Priest of our profession, Christ Jesus;

2 Peter 1:10
Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:

God's calling was, and is, not directed to Paul's countrymen according to the flesh, enemies of the gospel.
It is directed exclusively to God's "all Israel" remnant of His Holy Chosen People -- His Church.
To them, and to no others, His calling is irrevocable.


This is an unequivocal repudiation of any claim that unbelievers within the nation of Israel, enemies of the gospel, can be the recipients of God's gifts and calling.

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Biblewriter said:

You are neglecting the opening of this entire discussion, at the beginning of Romans 9:

1 I tell the truth in Christ, I am not lying, my conscience also bearing me witness in the Holy Spirit, 2 that I have great sorrow and continual grief in my heart. 3 For I could wish that I myself were accursed from Christ for my brethren, my countrymen according to the flesh, 4 who are Israelites, to whom pertain the adoption, the glory, the covenants, the giving of the law, the service of God, and the promises; 5 of whom are the fathers and from whom, according to the flesh, Christ came, who is over all, the eternally blessed God. Amen. Romans 9:1-5

Even at this late date, long after the cross, the adoption, the glory, the covenants,... AND THE PROMISES still pertained to Paul's "brethren," his "countrymen according to the flesh," who were Israelites.

This very clearly defines the group under discussion as Paul's "countrymen according to the flesh." It is not his brethren in the spirit, but his "countrymen according to the flesh." And "the promises STILL pertained to them.

Why? For the gifts and calling of God are irrevocable.

God had given gifts to them as a nation. and these gifts were irrevocable. God had called them as a nation, and this calling was irrevocable.

"For what if some did not believe? Will their unbelief make the faithfulness of God without effect? Certainly not!" Romans 3:3-4

The faithfulness of God cannot be set aside by the unbelief of man. He WILL accomplish His purpose, even if some do not believe. this is because the gifts and calling of God are irrevocable.

You and your friends are confusing two fundamentally different things. The promise to a nation, which always was and always will be inviolate, and the faith of individuals, which is always unreliable. Those individuals who refuse to believe will receive the same punishment received by all sinners. But the nation itself still possess all the promises ever made to it.

God has revealed, in high detail, the process by which He will finally bring this rebellious nation to repentance, so He will finally be able to justly keep every one of the ancient promises He made to them. But when men refuse to believe what God says, they can never even begin to understand what He so painstakingly set down, so long ago.

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jgr said:

It is immediately evident in 9:1-2 that what Paul describes in 3-5 was of no value in the salvation of his unbelieving countrymen, because everything enumerated there pertained to the Old Covenant only. New Covenant salvation does not appear in the list of what pertained to the Israelites.

Paul would have been ecstatic if he believed that all of his countrymen according to the flesh would be saved even despite their unbelief.

Instead, he was in anguish, knowing that only the believing remnant of Israel within the unbelieving nation of Israel would be saved. (Romans 9:1-2, 6-8; 27; 11:1-5)

I've demonstrated exhaustively from Scripture in post #260 that the gifts and calling of God are applicable exclusively to the believer. Faith and obedience exclusively are the criteria which qualify one to be a recipient of God's gifts and calling.

Your presumption in Romans 3:3-4 that God will extend His gifts and calling even to those in unbelief means you haven't read the whole chapter. God's conditions are unambiguous:

Romans 3
26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.
27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.
28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.
30 Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith.

God's gifts and calling are applicable exclusively to the believer, and are irrevocable exclusively to the believer. He will not withdraw them from the believer.

The promises of God are made to only one nation:
1 Peter 2
9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light;

It is His Holy Nation of those who in faith and obedience have placed their trust in Him -- His Only Chosen People -- His Church.

Praise be to Him who has bought us with a price, and has called us to be His Own.

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Biblewriter said:

In scripture, the term "elect" does not mean those who have already turned to Christ in faith. It means those who either already have or eventually will turn to God in faith.

God, in his perfect foreknowledge, already knows who will eventually trust Him, and who will not. Those who will eventually trust him are called the "elect."

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Biblewriter said:

The promises of God I am stressing were not made to individuals but to groups. It was not unbelieving individuals that were promised rescue, but a nation and its sub-parts.

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Biblewriter said:

This nation is still locked in unbelief. But God has revealed, in high detail, the process by which He will eventually bring them to repentance. At the end of that process, He has explicitly told us that He will purge out the unrepentant from among them, so the entire nation (that is, all who are left alive,) will have repented. And THAT is when He will rescue them and bless them. This is what I teach, because this is explicitly taught in the scriptures.

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ebedmelech said:

Here's the problem with your reasoning Biblewriter, you won't acknowledge Jesus as Israel, which Isaiah does a few times in his prophecy:

Isaiah 41:8-9
8 “But you, Israel, My servant, Jacob whom I have chosen, Descendant of Abraham My friend,
9 You whom I have taken from the ends of the earth, And called from its remotest parts And said to you, ‘You are My servant,

Isaiah 44:1-5
“But now listen, O Jacob, My servant, And Israel, whom I have chosen:
2 Thus says the Lord who made you And formed you from the womb, who will help you, ‘Do not fear, O Jacob My servant; And you Jeshurun whom I have chosen.
3 ‘For I will pour out water on the thirsty land And streams on the dry ground; I will pour out My Spirit on your offspring And My blessing on your descendants;
4 And they will spring up among the grass Like poplars by streams of water.’
5 “This one will say, ‘I am the Lord’s’; And that one will call on the name of Jacob; And another will write on his hand, ‘Belonging to the Lord, And will name Israel’s name with honor.

Isaiah 49:1-5:
Listen to Me, O islands, And pay attention, you peoples from afar. The Lord called Me from the womb; From the body of My mother He named Me.
2 He has made My mouth like a sharp sword, In the shadow of His hand He has concealed Me;
And He has also made Me a select arrow, He has hidden Me in His quiver.
3 He said to Me, “You are My Servant, Israel, In Whom I will show My glory.”
4 But I said, “I have toiled in vain, I have spent My strength for nothing and vanity; Yet surely the justice due to Me is with the Lord, And My reward with My God.”
5 And now says the Lord, who formed Me from the womb to be His Servant, To bring Jacob back to Him, so that Israel might be gathered to Him (For I am honored in the sight of the Lord, And My God is My strength),
6 He says, “It is too small a thing that You should be My Servant To raise up the tribes of Jacob and to restore the preserved ones of Israel; I will also make You a light of the nations So that My salvation may reach to the end of the earth.”
7 Thus says the Lord, the Redeemer of Israel and its Holy One, To the despised One, To the One abhorred by the nation, To the Servant of rulers, “Kings will see and arise, Princes will also bow down,
Because of the Lord who is faithful, the Holy One of Israel who has chosen You.”

You refuse to acknowledge Jesus as Israel under the New Covenant, yet Isaiah God calls Jesus "My Servant Israel" several times. Jesus is Israel because He accomplished all that Israel failed to do. This is clear from Isaiah 49:1-7. The Israel you look for is not the physical nation...BUT...it is EVERY BELIEVER Jew or Gentile.

Peter makes this very clear in 1 Peter 1:9-10:
9 But you are a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people for God’s own possession, so that you may proclaim the excellencies of Him who has called you out of darkness into His marvelous light;
10 for you once were not a people, but now you are the people of God; you had not received mercy, but now you have received mercy.

This is where you simply won't follow the teachings of scripture as to who Israel is under the New Covenant. As I referred you to Ephesians 2:11-22 earlier, Paul makes it clear that Jews and Gentiles become ONE IN CHRIST. Gentiles are no longer "strangers and aliens" but Paul call them FELLOW CITIZENS who were once "excluded from the commonwealth of Israel" (Ephesians 2:12)

Every promise of God is fulfilled in Christ...clearly stated in 1 Corinthians 1:20. Perhaps on day you'll get it and see the full picture. All in Jesus are "the Israel of God"!

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jgr said:

I don't know what Bible version you're reading from. Here's what my KJV says:

Luke 18:7
And shall not God avenge his own elect, which cry day and night unto him, though he bear long with them?

Romans 8:33
Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.

Colossians 3:12
Put on therefore, as the elect of God, holy and beloved, bowels of mercies, kindness, humbleness of mind, meekness, longsuffering;

2 Timothy 2:10
Therefore I endure all things for the elect's sakes, that they may also obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory.

Romans 11:5
Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.

Romans 11:7
What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded.

1 Thessalonians 1:4
Knowing, brethren beloved, your election of God.

1 Peter 5:13
The church that is at Babylon, elected together with you, saluteth you; and so doth Marcus my son.

2 Peter 1:10
Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall.


In every instance, the reference is to those who are already believers.

And with Scripture interpreting Scripture, we can understand Romans 11:28:
As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the father's sakes.

Notice the similarity above between 1 Thessalonians 1:4 and Romans 11:28.

The beloved election in the latter are the same as the beloved election in the former.

They are already believers.



Every nation and its sub-parts is comprised of individuals. A promise to a nation and its sub-parts is a promise to all of its individuals.

But God promises no rescue, only judgment and punishment, to the individuals of a nation and its sub-parts who reject Him.



That nation, like every nation, contains both believers and unbelievers. The latter can only become the former through faith in, and obedience to, the Son of God.

And as in every other nation in the world at large, not all of them will decide to do so.

Hence Paul's anguish.

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Biblewriter said:

At the end of that process, He has explicitly told us that He will purge out the unrepentant from among them, so the entire nation (that is, all who are left alive,) will have repented. And THAT is when He will rescue them and bless them. This is what I teach, because this is explicitly taught in the scriptures.

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BABerean2 said:

That process of purging is found when Christ returns in "flaming fire" taking vengeance on those who do not know God in 2 Thessalonians 1:7-10.

And in the judgment of the living sheep and goats at His Second Coming in Matthew 25:31-46.

And in the bodily resurrection and judgment of "all" the dead described by Christ in John 5:27-30, whose timing is found in Revelation11:18.

On that day the Baal worshipers in Romans 11:1-5 will be separated from the elect remnant.

On that day the "remnant" of Israel found in Romans 9:27 will be the remnant that have previously placed their faith in the Son of the Living God.
Based on the parable of the virgins from Matthew chapter 25, they must be ready before the Bridegroom comes.

All of Israel who is Israel in Romans 9:6, and who is the Israel of the promise, instead of the flesh in Romans 9:8 will be saved. And "so" (in this manner) all of Israel who is Israel will be saved, through faith in Christ. (Romans 11:26)

This is what is "explicitly" taught in scripture.

Your Bible says the same thing.

.

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Biblewriter said:

In the first part of this you are ignoring roughly a fourth of everything the Bible says. For that it a rough approximation of the bulk of prophecies that deal with the end time discipline and restoration of Israel and the millennium. There is no way to escape the time of Jacob's trouble and the millennium without denying most of what God said in Isaiah, Jeremiah, Ezekiel, and the twelve minor prophets, and much of what He said in Daniel and the Revelation.

And in the last part you are again pretending that the details and context of a passage are simply not important. We can debate until the end of time about the exact meaning of the words used by the Holy Spirit in Romans 9:6-8, but only if we omit what that same holy Spirit said by way of explaining himself in Romans 9:9-13. In this passage, which is the immediate context of Romans 9:6-8, the Holy Spirit explains His meaning by two examples. And both of these examples were cases of some, but not all, of the physical descendants of Abraham being counted as the seed. But these examples did not include even one person being so counted as the seed of Abraham who was not also one of his physical descendants.

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Biblewriter said:

70 Jesus answered them, Have not I chosen you twelve, and one of you is a devil? 71 He spake of Judas Iscariot the son of Simon: for he it was that should betray him, being one of the twelve. John 6:70-71

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jgr said:

Judas had already been chosen. Jesus wasn't deciding whether he would be chosen.

The elect had already been elected. God wasn't deciding whether they would be elected.

Is that a Scofield that you're reading from?

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Biblewriter said: ↑
70 Jesus answered them, Have not I chosen you twelve, and one of you is a devil? 71 He spake of Judas Iscariot the son of Simon: for he it was that should betray him, being one of the twelve. John 6:70-71

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jgr said:

Judas had already been chosen. Jesus wasn't deciding whether he would be chosen.

The elect had already been elected. God wasn't deciding whether they would be elected.
Is that a Scofield that you're reading from?

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random person said:

Was 1948 the Regathering of Israel in Bible Prophecy?
by William Bell​

Was 1948 the Regathering of Israel in Bible Prophecy?

Posted by William Bell on October 30th, 2008

In seeking to answer the question, Was 1948 the Regathering of Israel in Bible Prophecy?, it is necessary to gather a bit of history of Israel.

Israel, the ancient nation of the Bible apostatized during the days of Jeroboam. After King Solomon’s death, God tore Israel (the 10 northern tribes) from the house of David.

Their crimes were are follows:

•Leaving the commandments of God,
•Making a molded image and two calves
•Making a wooden image
•Worshiping all the host of heaven (sun, moon, stars, etc)
•Serving Baal
•Child sacrifices
•Practicing witchcraft and soothsaying
•Selling themselves to do evil provoking God to anger

For these reasons, God was very angry with Israel and removed them from his sight until none of them were left but the tribe of Judah alone, (2 Kings 17:15–18).

In 722 BC, God delivered Israel into Assyrian captivity. At that time, the king of Assyria brought people from Babylon, Cuthah, Ava, Hamath, and from Sepharvaim, and placed them in the cities of Samaria instead of the children of Israel. (2 Kings 17:24)

Samaria was the capital of Northern tribes. Israel was scattered among the Gentiles. Hosea prophesies that God would no longer have mercy upon Israel, (1:6), saying they were no longer his people, (1:9).

Yet, in fulfillment of the promise to Abraham, (Gen. 22:17; 32:12), God would make Israel as the sand of the sea and once again call them his people. He would again gather the nation together under one head with Judah and form them into one nation. (Hos. 1:10, 11).

Was 1948 the regathering of Israel in Bible prophecy? A recent article published in the front page of The Fiji Time Online titled “Divine Intervention” (Oct. 26, 2008), called the 1948 settlement fulfillment of Bible prophecy. Consider 7 Bible reasons 1948 cannot be the restoration of Israel in fulfillment of Bible prophecy.

1.The prophecies of Israel’s regathering are quoted in the New Testament by the apostles and are said to be fulfilled in Christ through the gospel.Compare: Hosea 1:9, 10; 2:23; with Romans 9:25, 26; 1 Peter 2:9 Isaiah 10:20–23 with Romans 9:27, 28


2.The majority of the Jews who are settled in the land of Israel are not the descendants of Abraham.Consider:

The Ashkenazi Jews, (comprising the world’s largest population of Jews are of European German descent.

Ashkenazi, means German and German speaking. Ashenaz was the great grandson of Noah, through Japheth. (Gen. 10:3)

The indigenous or ethnic population of Jews in Israel is comparatively small.

The line of Jews who were descended from Abraham were the descendants of Noah through Shem. Thus, the Ashkenazi Jews are not genetically related to Shem, hence are not the seed of Abraham. (Gen. 11:10–27).


3.Sitivina Rabuka cites Jeremiah 31:10, as proof that God would protect Israel from those who would attack them and seek to destroy them.However, he overlooks the fact that God promised that Israel would never be attacked or have their land threatened on any of the three annual feast days. (Exod. 34:23)

Yet, Israel was attacked on Yom Kippur, 1973. In the Bible, each time ancient Israel was attacked on a feast day, it was proof that Israel had broken the covenant.

Don K. Preston of Preterist Research Institute in Israel 1948, Countdown to Nowhere, argues that Josephus (first century Jewish Historian and other Jewish sources) cite that Nebuchadnezzar destroyed Jerusalem during the feast of Pentecost in 586 BC., (p. 26)

Preston also points out that according to Josephus, an eyewitness of the A.D. 70 destruction of Jerusalem took place during Pentecost, one of Israel’s three special feast days for disobedience to the covenant, Matthew 23–24).

Modern Israel was attacked on the Passover on 3/27/2002. Each time in the past Biblical History, Israel is attacked on the feast days for disobedience to to the covenant.

Thus, rather than proving Israel’s protection, an attack on the feast days proved that God was in disfavor with Israel.


4.Through Christ, God created a new nation of Israel, i.e. descendants of Abraham through faith, not flesh, (Gal. 3:26–29).Romans 2:28–29, speaks of those who are Jews inwardly, versus according to the flesh. Later Paul says those of the flesh are not counted as the seed of Abraham, Rom. 9:5–6, but that Christians, comprised of believing Jews and Gentiles, are the new Israel of God, Gal. 6:16.



5.As a direct result of their unbelief and disobedience the Jewish nation would be cast off forever from God’s presence and covenant people. (Gal. 4:26) This means that modern Israel, unless they are believers in Christ, are not the people of God.Moses prophesied that all who would not hear the Christ would be cut off from Israel, (Acts 3:22, 23).



6.All Old Testament prophecy has now been fulfilled. According to Luke 21:20–22, Jesus said the A.D. 70, destruction of Jerusalem was God’s vengeance upon the nation for crucifying Christ and his followers.



7.The land promises to fleshly Israel were all fulfilled under Joshua, (21:43–45) and Solomon, 1 Kings 4:24, 25), to which Israel was allowed to return under Cyrus following the Babylonian captivity.The physical land of Canaan was never “ultimate” promise land of God’s people, but merely a shadow and type of the true heavenly land promised to the Patriarchs according to Hebrews 11:13–16; 12:22–23)


1948, offers nothing in the promises of God for Israel, the new spiritual nation reborn in Christ.


Was 1948 the Regathering of Israel in Bible Prophecy?

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Calminian said:

Sure looks like it. I'd call it a super sign.

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BABerean2 said:

Lord Rothschild did not mention God even one time in his explanation below of how his family created the modern State of Israel.

Many of the Zionists who helped create the modern State of Israel were atheists and agnostics.

Theodor Herzl | Austrian Zionist leader

.

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Calminian said:

Sure looks like it. I'd call it a super sign.

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Nah.....the super signs are in Reve 12 and 15

Calminian said:

I would agree, but it's irrelevant. Israel was/is a nation, not a body of believers like the Church. It's always had a believing remnant, but it's always had its share of unbelievers. Just look the the wilderness generation!

Israel's existence has always accompanied unbelief. The beauty of the Daniel and Revelation prophecies is the coming conversion of the entire nation at the end of the age.

Rom. 11:26 And so all Israel will be saved, as it is written:
“The Deliverer will come out of Zion,
And He will turn away ungodliness from Jacob;​

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