A testimony about praying to Mary

fat wee robin

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No one has to read minds, they can see for themselves Catholics bowing down to the statues/graven images, and praying. How is that not both the things covered in the following?

4 Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness [of any thing] that [is] in heaven above, or that [is] in the earth beneath, or that [is] in the water under the earth: 5 Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God [am] a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth [generation] of them that hate me; 6 And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.

What's happening is absolutely blatant, again...how is it not?



Does calling it veneration make it ok? Where in the bible does it make exceptions for the commandment?
WOW! ... Who are you, dude?
You seem to be totally misunderstanding what I have been saying.
Questions: Don't you understand that the elderly lady was NOT saved? Don't you understand that she had placed her faith in Orthodox church and her wall of icons?
Just what is your problem anyway?
I believe she was 'saved ' ,but it was nice of you to talk to her of Jesus .
 
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FenderTL5

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Yes, but I had one heck if a time finding anyone who could speak English!
During my 10-day bus riding from city to city in southern Spain ... alone with my 25-lb back pack.
Many fewer English-speakers than any European country I've visited.
You were in Spain - you should've spoken Spanish.
 
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BCsenior

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I believe she was 'saved ' ,but it was nice of you to talk to her of Jesus .
Sorry, but NO!
She experienced a real revelation of spiritual Truth!
As I recall she was quite amazed!
She "saw" that her salvation was to be through believing and trusting in Jesus ... not in her church or her icons!
 
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LoveGodsWord

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Ezekiel, in the Holy Spirit, says that she is ever-virgin (Ezekiel 44:2). Plus she had no other sons but Christ, which is why from the cross he gave her his beloved disciple John to be his son, and she John's mother. James and Joses, brothers of the Lord, were Mary's stepsons, who were born of Joseph's deceased wife (Joseph was an elderly widower).

Ezekiel in the HOLY SPIRIT in EZEKIEL 44:2 does not say MARY is forever a VIRGIN brother you may need to re-read the scripture you quoted from EZEKIEL 44:2.

How can MARY be a VIRGIN when she had other sons beside JESUS? There is nothing in the bible anywhere that says that the brothers and sisters of JESUS were not Mary's. This is a Catholic teaching started in the 4-5th century on the Virgin Mary doctrine of the Roman Catholic Church.

If Mary was a Virgin she would not have been married or been with a man. Your also trying to say Joseph never knew or had a marriage relationship with his wife? The Virgin Mary Doctrine is trying to argue things that are not written and revealed in the Word of God. Even if Jesus brothers were not Mary's sons (we do not know as it is not revealed through the scriptures) it does not prove the VIRGIN MARY Doctrine of the RCC.

There is no such thing as the VIRGIN MARY doctrine as it cannot be proven by God's WORD. All we know is that Mary was a virgin at the conception of JESUS. Those days are well over now and you may now refer to her as MARY who was a sinner just like me and you who our Lord also died to save.

May God bless you as you seek him through his Word.
 
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LoveGodsWord

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No one has to read minds, they can see for themselves Catholics bowing down to the statues/graven images, and praying. How is that not both the things covered in the following?

4 Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness [of any thing] that [is] in heaven above, or that [is] in the earth beneath, or that [is] in the water under the earth: 5 Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God [am] a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth [generation] of them that hate me; 6 And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.

Not that your council to your brother is wrong, but the scriptures say...

JAMES 2:10-11
[10], For whoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all. [11], For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if you commit no adultery, yet if you kill, you are become a transgressor of the law.

There are 10 Commandments in God's eternal law not nine...

EXODUS 20:8-11
[8], Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. [9], Six days shall you labor, and do all your work: [10], But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD your God: in it you shall not do any work, you, nor your son, nor your daughter, your manservant, nor your maidservant, nor your cattle, nor your stranger that is within your gates: [11], For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: why the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

Is it ok to quote the second commandment to our brother while breaking the fourth? JESUS instructs us to do better before councilling others *MATTHEW 7:3-5; ROMANS 2:21-23.

May God bless you as you seek him through his Word.
 
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Simplistik

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Ezekiel, in the Holy Spirit, says that she is ever-virgin (Ezekiel 44:2). Plus she had no other sons but Christ, which is why from the cross he gave her his beloved disciple John to be his son, and she John's mother. James and Joses, brothers of the Lord, were Mary's stepsons, who were born of Joseph's deceased wife (Joseph was an elderly widower).

them being Mary's stepsons by joseph's deceased wife and him being an elderly widow are theories I haven't heard but i'll check them out. What I understand is that back then there was no separate word for brother/sister/cousin so his "brothers and sisters" were his cousins by another Mary. I also didn't catch that in Ezekiel, I'll look at that now, thanks :D
 
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Kenny'sID

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I'm saying that when a person does not know God, by the Holy Spirit, then God's Word is easily misunderstood. Whenever this happens, the evil one, by his army of demons, capitalizes on it to convince the spiritually ignorant to teach that it is offensive to God to honor those in whom Christ Himself lives. It's all a lie -- a big, fat lie. Satan loves when people have contempt for the Theotokos, whom he hates with so great a hatred, because her seed, Christ, has crushed his head with His almighty heel.

Now that, brother, is "calling a duck a duck".

You didn't answer the simple question, and the duck, all you did was make unclear accusations. IOW you say spiritually ignorant, but we need to know about what in particular

Now this time instead of saying we or whoever is spiritually ignorant/telling lies, please tell us specifically what lies, or what exactly is it we are ignorant about?

Also, please answer the simple question on exactly what this conversation is about:

Is it, or is it not ok to make a graven image, and bow down to it?

I'll not push you a second time, either you will give straight answers/back up your accusations or you will not.
 
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Kenny'sID

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It goes hand in hand with the previous commandment, "You shall have no other gods before Me". The context was the pagans who the Israelites were displacing in the promised land, who had images carved out of wood and stone who they considered to be their gods.

Then it's actually ok to make a graven image and bow down to it?
 
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Kenny'sID

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The injunction against graven images relates to idols. There are some pretty huge differences between idols and, say, icons.

As to “where in muh bible” blah blah blah, sola scriptura is your man-made doctrine. Don’t try making it mine, thanks.

Then it is ok to bow down to a graven image under certain circumstances?
 
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thecolorsblend

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Then it is ok to bow down to a graven image under certain circumstances?
As long as it's not a bona fide idol, I suppose it comes down to the individual's conscience.
 
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Kenny'sID

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As long as it's not a bona fide idol, I suppose it comes down to the individual's conscience.

Actually, it comes down to whether or not it's a graven image.

4 Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness [of any thing] that [is] in heaven above, or that [is] in the earth beneath, or that [is] in the water under the earth:

Period

Any confusion here does not come from the commandment.

Interestingly, do you see how God actual sounded like thorough contract attorney there, he left no loopholes and was very clear what he was talking about....yet. I don't believe your argument could/would stand up even in a court of law.
 
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paul becke

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I'm shocked that someone can be Catholic for 21 years without realizing that Our Lady isn't God.

Then again, that could just be me.

I've just read recently that Our Lady told one of the saints (maybe St Faustina - not sure) that one of the things, perhaps the thing that upset her the most, was when her children didn't realise that she is nothing, in herself, she was created by God, she is a creature, just as we are.

Mind you, that is hardly a disincentive for loving her literally (though without the pejorative overtone) 'inordinately', right 'off the dial'. Is it any wonder, when we consider that God the Father entrusted to her the role of being the mother of His Son.... the Creator of this immeasurably vast universe, in which there are trillions of, not stars, not even constellations, but galaxies ?! And that, only in the part of the universe we are able to know scientifically, beyond the reach of telescopes of any kind. And more significantly still, as his mother, she must have suffered for his sake and ours, beyond what we could imagine, if we could ever be persuaded to try to do so.
 
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Maria Billingsley

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Actually, it comes down to whether or not it's a graven image.

4 Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness [of any thing] that [is] in heaven above, or that [is] in the earth beneath, or that [is] in the water under the earth:

Period

Any confusion here does not come from the commandment.

Interestingly, do you see how God actual sounded like thorough contract attorney there, he left no loopholes and was very clear what he was talking about....yet. I don't believe your argument could/would stand up even in a court of law.
Unfortunately, the Catholic Catechism leaves out the "graven image" commandment so it is not taught in Catholicism unless one only goes to the bible for spiritual guidance.

Catechism of the Catholic Church - The Ten Commandments
 
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Kenny'sID

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Unfortunately, the Catholic Catechism leaves out the "graven image" commandment so it is not taught in Catholicism.

I knew something had to be off here, but unfortunately for them...It is written just the same, no matter what men might do with the scriptures.
 
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