A testimony about praying to Mary

thecolorsblend · Nov 28, 2018

Kenny'sID said:
No one has to read minds, they can see for themselves Catholics bowing down to the statues/graven images, and praying. How is that not both the things covered in the following?

4 Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness [of any thing] that [is] in heaven above, or that [is] in the earth beneath, or that [is] in the water under the earth: 5 Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God [am] a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth [generation] of them that hate me; 6 And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.

What's happening is absolutely blatant, again...how is it not?

Does calling it veneration make it ok? Where in the bible does it make exceptions for the commandment?

The injunction against graven images relates to idols. There are some pretty huge differences between idols and, say, icons.

As to “where in muh bible” blah blah blah, sola scriptura is your man-made doctrine. Don’t try making it mine, thanks.

thecolorsblend · Nov 28, 2018

Loyce KG said:
"Without her assent, Our Lord would not have been born." This statement you made is contrary to scripture and is a slap in the face of God' sovereignity. With all due respect, Christ would have been born with or without mary's assent. The Spirit of God revealed to her what would be and she responded in faith. This has nothing to do with her being a focal determinant of whether the messiah would be born or not. God uses willing vessels.

If she had refused to cooperate, Our Lord’s conception, birth and upbringing all would’ve been radically different.

There.

Does that work better for you?

truefiction1 · Nov 28, 2018

GingerBeer said:
I think that your arithmetic is a little bit wrong; even if you count from "the great schism" it would still be 1,000 years not 1,500 years.

My time calculations are based on the beginnings of the Reformed (Protestant) Christian traditions, which had there beginnings about 1500 years after the birth of the Church, and which have led to such large gaps between Christian cultures that exist today.

truefiction1 · Nov 28, 2018

Simplistik said:
I am a nondenominational protestant so I don't agree w/ praying to anyone but God and I feel that Jesus is our intercessor before the Father and we need no intercessor before Jesus, as Catholic's consider Saints and Mary in particular.

That being said, many protestants misunderstand Marian devotion and believe that Catholic's are WORSHIPPING Mary, which is absolutely NOT the case in most instances. I'm sure there are some Catholic's who elevate Mary to the level of Godhood but as I understand it, most do not.

I am reading "Father Peyton's Rosary Prayer Book" right now and it seems to me he elevates her to near Godhood. In it he describes how he came down with an incurable, terminal illness and after praying the rosary and to Mary to intercede on his behalf with God he was miraculously cured. He even went so far as to thank MARY for his miraculous recovery and NOT GOD! His dying words were "Mary, my Queen, my Mother."

Anyway, I digress, there is also a difference between veneration, devotion and worship, with worship being solely, entirely and strictly for God. Miriam-webster defines veneration as "to regard with reverential respect or with admiring deference." and if we look at the Bible, in the Gospel's we see that God blessed Mary forever among women and Elizabeth even venerates her, and let's face it, she IS the mother of God after all. And as far as devotion is concerned, I can devote myself to my Pastor and his teachings without worshipping him.

So, TRUE Marian devotion, when understood correctly, is just the respect due to the mother of Jesus, the one who brought our Lord into this world, the one whom God blessed among women for all generations. The Hail Mary is just a repetition of Gabriel and Elizabeth's pronouncements regarding her and the fruit of her womb.

I'm still not convinced that she is an "ever virgin", although the evidence for that is intriguing nor am I convinced that we should pray to her but I do understand why people ask her and the saints to pray for us.

Ezekiel, in the Holy Spirit, says that she is ever-virgin (Ezekiel 44:2). Plus she had no other sons but Christ, which is why from the cross he gave her his beloved disciple John to be his son, and she John's mother. James and Joses, brothers of the Lord, were Mary's stepsons, who were born of Joseph's deceased wife (Joseph was an elderly widower).

GingerBeer · Nov 28, 2018

truefiction1 said:
My time calculations are based on the beginnings of the Reformed (Protestant) Christian traditions, which had there beginnings about 1500 years after the birth of the Church, and which have led to such large gaps between Christian cultures that exist today.

Oh, okay. But before 1517 or so the Protestants were Catholic mostly. But I see what you mean.

truefiction1 · Nov 28, 2018

Loyce KG said:
"Without her assent, Our Lord would not have been born." This statement you made is contrary to scripture and is a slap in the face of God' sovereignity. With all due respect, Christ would have been born with or without mary's assent. The Spirit of God revealed to her what would be and she responded in faith. This has nothing to do with her being a focal determinant of whether the messiah would be born or not. God uses willing vessels.

It may be that Christ would have been born without Mary's assent. But the Truth is, God chose to become man through the assent of the most holy, most pure, most blessed and glorious lady, Theotokos and ever-virgin Mary. God honors her above all others in this way, as He Himself testifies in His Word (Luke 1:48-49).

If God Himself, in His Word, honors her who bore and raised Him as a man, then how should she be regarded by us, with disdain? None of Christ's disciples, who knew the Lord's mother and lived along side her as devoted followers of her Son, had such contempt for her as we see in those Christians who protest the honor rendered her by the Church. She was known, loved, and most highly revered by them all, and has been from the beginning until now, and will be "for all generations". Icons are written of her, beginning with the ones first painted by the holy Evangelist Luke, who knew and loved her personally, because of her blessedness, as the one "blessed among women" (Luke 1:28). She is the most highly venerated person in the Church, which is the fulfillment of all Biblical prophecy concerning her.

truefiction1 · Nov 28, 2018

... But enough of this. I need to be on my way now. The Lord's mother has no need of a sinner like me to talk of her honor. The Lord Himself does this every time He answers her intercessions for us with His mighty power, reigning down miracles of healing and salvation upon us, in His great mercy.

Bye-bye.

BCsenior · Nov 28, 2018

prodromos said:
Why do Protestant Missionaries always seem to target other Christians, particularly those who have suffered under Communist persecution, instead of trying to win the atheists over?

WOW! ... Who are you, dude?
You seem to be totally misunderstanding what I have been saying.
Questions: Don't you understand that the elderly lady was NOT saved? Don't you understand that she had placed her faith in Orthodox church and her wall of icons?
Just what is your problem anyway?

BCsenior · Nov 28, 2018

prodromos said:
Orthodox and Catholics ask of the living to pray for us, joining their prayers to God with our own, since the prayers of a righteous man availeth much.

Would you care to re-state this
... because I'm not following.
The living is obvious.
Who is "us"?
Does "their" refer to the dead?
And are the dead "righteous"?

BCsenior · Nov 28, 2018

Gracia Singh said:
There is actually archeological evidence of Marian veneration (in the forms of hymns and prayers for help to her) dating from the late 200's, if not earlier.
Sub tuum praesidium - Wikipedia

Sure, even way before the Word came down from
heaven to become "Jesus" and "the Son of God" and
"the Son of the Most High" ... Satan was ...
"the ruler of this world" (John 12:31, etc.)
"the god of this world" (1 Corinthians 4:4)
"controlling the world" (1 John 5:19)
"deceiving the whole world" (Revelation 12:9)
"a master of deception and the father of lies" (John 8:44), etc.
... holding non-believers in bondage and slavery,
as he blinded them and held them captive (Eph. 6:12,
2 Cor. 4:4, 2 Tim. 2:26, Heb. 2:14, Psalm 146:7)!

Can there really be any doubt as to why
the church has always been so messed up?
Believing in horrendous false doctrines, such as:
"grace only" and "once saved, always saved".

Warning: Throughout history (and to this day)
... many in the churches have not been saved.

anna ~ grace · Nov 28, 2018

BCsenior said:
Sure, even way before the Word came down
from heaven to become "Jesus",
Satan was ...
"the ruler of this world" (John 12:31, etc.)
"the god of this world" (1 Corinthians 4:4)
"controlling the world" (1 John 5:19)
"deceiving the whole world" (Revelation 12:9)
"a master of deception and the father of lies" (John 8:44)
... holding non-believers in bondage and slavery
as he blinded them and held them captive
(Eph 6:12, 2 Cor 4:4, 2 Tim 2:26, Heb 2:14, Psalm 146:7)

Can there really be any doubt as to why
the church has always been so messed up?
Warning: Many in the churches are not saved.

That really doesn't make sense, BC. To say that Apostolic faith and praxis is Satanic, faith which actually pre-dates Scripture being cannonized.

Maria Billingsley · Nov 28, 2018

BCsenior said:
I thought this was interesting and worth sharing.
And I hope it does not offend anyone!

As children of God, we MUST LOVE TRUTH more than our paradigms! We must be willing to allow ourselves to see the TRUTH and release “sacred cows”. Or we run the very real risk of BEING DECEIVED and FALLING AWAY!
I will provide a personal example of this and I apologize in advance to anyone that this upsets, but we are in the times that we must be BOLD in declaring God’s truth.
I was raised Catholic and remained in the faith through the age of 21. One day, God showed me that praying to the Virgin Mary dishonored Him and was a violation of The Ten Commandments, specifically “You shall have no other Gods before me”. If I had refused to hear God, think about and reflect on this correction from God
and not be open to His revelation, I would never have realized how wrong was the practice of praying to The Virgin Mary and reciting the Holy Mary Mother of God prayer. I was initially shocked by this Revelation,
but my LOVE for the truth and desire to honor God was stronger than 21 years of participating in this practice!
I share this as ENCOURAGEMENT to ALL of us to LOVE the truth more than ANYTHING else so we do NOT become deceived!
--- Dave Hodges of “The Common Sense Show”

We can all agree that this is a hot topic and the first point of contention between Catholics and Protestants. I guess what it really boils down to "is God hearing your prayers". Jesus taught us how to pray, "Our Father..." if some denominations choose to add to Jesus command it is their choice. We, Protestants, will NEVER win this battle. So we may just join the war together by spreading the "Good News" of the Kingdom of God.
Blessings

PaulCyp1 · Nov 28, 2018

Obviously you were never Catholic, or you wouldn't make such a ridiculous and ignorant statement. Why don't you just be honest and state which of the 6,000 unauthorized manmade conflicting semi-Christian Protestant denominations you belong to? If I ask a friend of mine to pray for me when I'm going through a rough time, do I dishonor God or violate the Ten Commandments?? If not, then how would asking Mary to pray for me dishonor God or violate the Ten Commandments?? If you had ever been Catholic, you would know that worshipping Mary would be the sin of idolatry, which the Catholic Church absolutely forbids. Talking to someone is not worship. Asking someone to pray for us is not worship. Here is the prayer you claim is idolatrous:

"Hail Mary, full of grace" - "Hail" means "Hello". We all receive God's grace, but Mary certainly received it in a special and unique way.
"The Lord is with thee" - The Lord was not only with Mary, but physically within her.
"Blessed are you among women" - We are all blessed by God in various ways, but Mary alone received the singular blessing of giving birth to our Lord and Savior.
"Blessed is the fruit of thy womb, Jesus" - obviously no problem there.
"Holy Mary, mother of God, pray for us sinners, now and at the hour of our death" - Many holy people have played important roles in the history of God's Holy Church, but again Mary's role was unique in that without her we would not have a Savior and there would be no Church.
Amen!
Please point out the words that you think give worship to Mary.
I didn't think so.

GoldenKingGaze · Nov 28, 2018

BCsenior said:
I thought this was interesting and worth sharing.
And I hope it does not offend anyone!

As children of God, we MUST LOVE TRUTH more than our paradigms! We must be willing to allow ourselves to see the TRUTH and release “sacred cows”. Or we run the very real risk of BEING DECEIVED and FALLING AWAY!
I will provide a personal example of this and I apologize in advance to anyone that this upsets, but we are in the times that we must be BOLD in declaring God’s truth.
I was raised Catholic and remained in the faith through the age of 21. One day, God showed me that praying to the Virgin Mary dishonored Him and was a violation of The Ten Commandments, specifically “You shall have no other Gods before me”. If I had refused to hear God, think about and reflect on this correction from God
and not be open to His revelation, I would never have realized how wrong was the practice of praying to The Virgin Mary and reciting the Holy Mary Mother of God prayer. I was initially shocked by this Revelation,
but my LOVE for the truth and desire to honor God was stronger than 21 years of participating in this practice!
I share this as ENCOURAGEMENT to ALL of us to LOVE the truth more than ANYTHING else so we do NOT become deceived!
--- Dave Hodges of “The Common Sense Show”

It is up to the teacher and the Catholic to learn that the statue is not an idol and is not to be worshipped. It is not plain to see. "Mother of grace" ... gives the impression it is the same as Father of grace and source. A trip up into idolatry. But the priests explain not to worship Mary.

BCsenior · Nov 28, 2018

truefiction1 said:
The Lord's mother has no need of a sinner like me to talk of her honor. The Lord Himself does this every time He answers her intercessions for us with His mighty power, reigning down miracles of healing and salvation upon us, in His great mercy. Bye-bye.

Even though Bye-bye has gone bye-bye,
let the rest us consider the truth that
the NT never even hints that we should
pray to Mary or any of those men which the
RCC and EOC have proclaimed to be saints.

Yes, I am Sola Scriptura!
Why would I trust in any man or church?
Only if the Lord told me to!

BCsenior · Nov 28, 2018

PaulCyp1 said:
Please point out the words that you think give worship to Mary. I didn't think so.

Okay, I just ran back through my posts and cannot find any place where I talked about RCs worshipping Mary.
Please point me to that post. Thanks.

BCsenior · Nov 28, 2018

GoldenKingGaze said:
It is up to the teacher and the Catholic to learn that the statue is not an idol and is not to be worshipped. It is not plain to see. "Mother of grace" ... gives the impression it is the same as Father of grace and source. A trip up into idolatry. But the priests explain not to worship Mary.

Did you mean ...
"the statue IS an idol and is not to be worshipped."

fat wee robin · Nov 28, 2018

BCsenior said:
Yes, I witnessed a large parade in southern Spain with a huge float carrying Mary (on "Mary Day", if I remember correctly). I'll never forget how enthrawled the crowd was ... so full of admiration, etc. for her!

And it is a kinder and more cohesive culture than America , with her capitalistic ,individualistic, gun carrying culture ,and nuclear weapons etc .

BCsenior · Nov 28, 2018

fat wee robin said:
And it is a kinder and more cohesive culture than America , with her capitalistic ,individualistic, gun carrying culture ,and nuclear weapons etc .

Yes, but I had one heck if a time finding anyone who could speak English!
During my 10-day bus riding from city to city in southern Spain ... alone with my 25-lb back pack.
Many fewer English-speakers than any European country I've visited.

redleghunter · Nov 28, 2018

truefiction1 said:
Ezekiel, in the Holy Spirit, says that she is ever-virgin (Ezekiel 44:2).

So Ezekiel was speaking of Mary's virginity in the context of that passage?

A testimony about praying to Mary

If God is your Father, who is your Mother?

If God is your Father, who is your Mother?

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