The Earth is around 6000 years old

SpiritualBeing said:

Nowhere in the Bible does it teach that the earth is young. The Bible does not say "the earth is 6,000 years old." Nor does it say "the earth is 4.5 billion years old." The fact is, the Bible makes no claims as to the age of the earth. We must interpret the age of the earth from science and the Bible. (If the Bible does not tell us, it must not be important.

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I noticed you put science before the words of the one who was there at the beginning. Its no wonder you come to the wrong conclusions...

gordonhooker said:

There are plethoras of fruit-cakes out there that say all sorts of things, including that the earth is only 6000 years old.

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So me and God are fruitcakes huh? Check.
You are in error because you do not know the scriptures or the power of God.
Creation week: One literal week.
Add up the genealogy's: So and so begat so and so and lived to XXX amount of years.
approximately 4400 years to Jesus's life on earth.
Christ's death until now: 2018 years. So from the Beginning until now, AS WRITTEN BY THE ONE WHO WAS THERE is about 6500 years. Now you only have two choices: You can believe him or you can doubt him.
God said: " And the evening and the morning were THE first day."

" And the evening and the morning were THE second day."

"And the evening and the morning were THE third day."

"And the evening and the morning were THE fourth day."

"And the evening and the morning were THE fifth day."

"And the evening and the morning were THE sixth day."

Even a child reading that comes to only ONE conclusion. God made it simple man complicates things.

SpiritualBeing said:

It's called common sense. Something that is obviously missing in your world.


WOW such simple logic. Has it ever occured to you that Genesis was written in Hebrew? Do you know that the word day can have several meanings in Hebrew?

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Has it ever occurred to you it was written by God, and it means what it means?
Look up the law of first mention.

Yekcidmij said:

I'm not sure this is a good argument. Who cares what James Barr thinks? If he makes arguments to support positions, that's one thing, but to appeal to the authority of James Barr....who cares?

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The "point" is that the factless shallow argument that only a Bible believing Christian "would notice" that the text of Genesis specifies a real 7 day creation week "in the language that is used", does not survive the "detail" that the actual professors of Hebrew and OT history at world renown universities "know full well" that the text conveys the meaning of the literal week - just as we see it in Exodus 20 - equated by God to the 7 day week at Sinai.

All that fluff-and-nonsense that the text does not say what it is obviously saying... and the nonsense that only a Bible believing Christian "would notice" is debunked by those professors in academia who are themselves anything but Christian and yet still "admit to the obvious" when it comes to the language of the text and its intended meaning to the reader of that text.

Ancient of Days said:

Has it ever occurred to you it was written by God, and it means what it means?
Look up the law of first mention.

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No, it wasn't written by God. It was INSPIRED by GOD. Written by man in the HEBREW language and then TRANSLATED into English. Do you think that all words in English mean exactly the same as in Hebrew? You really need to brush up on basic meanings and concepts. LOL

I challenge you to look up the word Yom. Study it. Study it some more and understand the different definitions of the word "YOM"

Those who argue for an untrustworthy Bible - have no solid basis for
1. The virgin birth
2. The miracles of Christ
3. The bodily resurrection of Christ
4. the bodily ascension of Christ
5. The creation of mankind in a sinless state
6. Mankind fallen from sinless perfection and then condemned to hell if he does not accept the Gospel

Soo incredibly obvious that all of us can see it.

This is the easy part of the discussion.

---

In the actual Bible - the claim is made that God is the author 2 Tim 3:16, 2 Peter 1:20-21 and that trust in the Bible is not based on "wild guessing picking and choosing".

Shall we "trust the Bible" in that regard?
...
The idea that goofy people mess up and report things wrong and that this is what the Bible is... has no basis in scripture.

Christ calls scripture - the "Word of God" in Mark 7:6-13

"Mark 7:6-13
6 And He said to them, “Rightly did Isaiah prophesy of you hypocrites, as it is written:
‘This people honors Me with their lips,
But their heart is far away from Me.
7 ‘But in vain do they worship Me,
Teaching as doctrines the precepts of men.’
8 Neglecting the commandment of God, you hold to the tradition of men.”
9 He was also saying to them, “You are experts at setting aside the commandment of God in order to keep your tradition. 10 For Moses said, ‘Honor your father and your mother’; and, ‘He who speaks evil of father or mother, is to be put to death’; 11 but you say, ‘If a man says to his father or his mother, whatever I have that would help you is Corban (that is to say, given to God),’ 12 you no longer permit him to do anything for his father or his mother; 13 thus invalidating the word of God by your tradition which you have handed down; and you do many things such as that.”

---Staff Edit---

SpiritualBeing said:

No, it wasn't written by God. It was INSPIRED by GOD.

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And the result "according to God" is that it is to be called "the Word of God" -- said Christ in Mark 7:6-13.
Said Paul in Hebrews 3.

Both of whom write in Greek about a Hebrew text.

Believe the Bible - or deny the Bible... it is a pretty easy choice --

BobRyan said:

Believe the Bible - or deny the Bible... it is a pretty easy choice --

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Interpret the bible correctly or interpret it incorrectly the choice is pretty simple.

Ancient of Days said:

So me and God are fruitcakes huh? Check.
You are in error because you do not know the scriptures or the power of God.
Creation week: One literal week.
Add up the genealogy's: So and so begat so and so and lived to XXX amount of years.
approximately 4400 years to Jesus's life on earth.
Christ's death until now: 2018 years. So from the Beginning until now, AS WRITTEN BY THE ONE WHO WAS THERE is about 6500 years. Now you only have two choices: You can believe him or you can doubt him.
God said: " And the evening and the morning were THE first day."

" And the evening and the morning were THE second day."

"And the evening and the morning were THE third day."

"And the evening and the morning were THE fourth day."

"And the evening and the morning were THE fifth day."

"And the evening and the morning were THE sixth day."

Even a child reading that comes to only ONE conclusion. God made it simple man complicates things.

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Except Gen 1 doesn't say "OF CREATION" after any of the days. One must assume it means that.

However, I refer you to post #91 and 96 where I have given evidence from both the OT and NT that there is an indeterminate time gap between v.1 and v.2.

So, instead of "of creation" after each of the days, it is really referring to "of restoration". Easily proved. Heb 11:3 doesn't say "formed", "framed", etc. The Greek word is katartizo. Same word as used in Gal 6:1. Research is good for the soul. Don't take my word for this.

Ancient of Days said:

So me and God are fruitcakes huh? Check.
You are in error because you do not know the scriptures or the power of God.
Creation week: One literal week.
Add up the genealogy's: So and so begat so and so and lived to XXX amount of years.
approximately 4400 years to Jesus's life on earth.
Christ's death until now: 2018 years. So from the Beginning until now, AS WRITTEN BY THE ONE WHO WAS THERE is about 6500 years. Now you only have two choices: You can believe him or you can doubt him.
God said: " And the evening and the morning were THE first day."

" And the evening and the morning were THE second day."

"And the evening and the morning were THE third day."

"And the evening and the morning were THE fourth day."

"And the evening and the morning were THE fifth day."

"And the evening and the morning were THE sixth day."

Even a child reading that comes to only ONE conclusion. God made it simple man complicates things.

Click to expand...

If the cap fits.

BobRyan said:

And the result "according to God" is that it is to be called "the Word of God" -- said Christ in Mark 7:6-13.
Said Paul in Hebrews 3.

Both of whom write in Greek about a Hebrew text.

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Guess you never heard of Lost in Translation.

Believe the Bible - or deny the Bible... it is a pretty easy choice --

SpiritualBeing said:

Interpret the bible correctly or interpret it incorrectly the choice is pretty simple.

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hence the point I make about some Bible details being so glaringly obvious that even the atheist professors of religion, OT studies, Hebrew languages - can easily "get the point".

gordonhooker said: ↑
There are plethoras of fruit-cakes out there that say all sorts of things, including that the earth is only 6000 years old.

Click to expand...

Ancient of Days said:

So me and God are fruitcakes huh? Check.
You are in error because you do not know the scriptures or the power of God.
Creation week: One literal week.
Add up the genealogy's: So and so begat so and so and lived to XXX amount of years.
approximately 4400 years to Jesus's life on earth.
Christ's death until now: 2018 years. So from the Beginning until now, AS WRITTEN BY THE ONE WHO WAS THERE is about 6500 years. Now you only have two choices: You can believe him or you can doubt him.
God said: " And the evening and the morning were THE first day."

" And the evening and the morning were THE second day."

"And the evening and the morning were THE third day."

"And the evening and the morning were THE fourth day."

"And the evening and the morning were THE fifth day."

"And the evening and the morning were THE sixth day."

Even a child reading that comes to only ONE conclusion. God made it simple man complicates things.

Click to expand...

Perfect!

And also "in legal code" God says it this way

Ex 20
8 “Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. 9 Six days you shall labor and do all your work, ...11 For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it."

Which points directly at Genesis 2:1-3 NKJV
Thus the heavens and the earth, and all the host of them, were finished. 2 And on the seventh day God ended His work which He had done, and He rested on the seventh day from all His work which He had done. 3 Then God blessed the seventh day and sanctified it, because in it He rested from all His work which God had created and made.
4 This is the history of the heavens and the earth when they were created, in the day that the Lord God made the earth and the heaven

Gen 3:1-4 NASB
Thus the heavens and the earth were completed, and all their hosts. 2 By the seventh day God completed His work which He had done, and He rested on the seventh day from all His work which He had done. 3 Then God blessed the seventh day and sanctified it, because in it He rested from all His work which God had created and made.
4 This is the account of the heavens and the earth when they were created, in the day that the Lord God made earth and heaven.

FreeGrace2 said:

Except Gen 1 doesn't say "OF CREATION" after any of the days

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"When they were Created"...

However, I refer you to post #91 and 96 where I have given evidence from both the OT and NT that there is an indeterminate time gap between v.1 and v.2.

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Taking that as "a given" -- you still have a 7 day literal week for the creation of all life on planet Earth as well as the creation of the Sun and the moon.

it is really referring to "of restoration".

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"When they were created" not "when they were restored"...

Where do you find "restoration" in Genesis 1??

BobRyan said:

Believe the Bible - or deny the Bible... it is a pretty easy choice --



hence the point I make about some Bible details being so glaringly obvious that even the atheist professors of religion, OT studies, Hebrew languages - can easily "get the point".

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So glaringly obvious that they easily get the point that God created the heavens and earth in 6 human days?

Sure I guess if you have no concept of independent thinking, have no clue about the Hebrew Language and if you think the Bible was written in The Western English Language.

Why do you keep deflecting from the fact that the Bible was originally written in Hebrew?

---Staff Edit---

Yekcidmij said:

And if James Barr said it in a letter to David Watson, then it obviously must be true. James Barr said it. I believe it. That settles it....?

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If atheists like Professor Barr can admit to glaringly obvious Bible details - then some of the atheist-leaning people here should be able to comprehend that one cannot blame all obvious Bible details "on Bible believing Christians". Some of those details are so obvious that even the atheists will admit to them.

=================

Believe the Bible - or deny the Bible... it is a pretty easy choice --

SpiritualBeing said:

Interpret the bible correctly or interpret it incorrectly the choice is pretty simple.

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hence the point I make about some Bible details being so glaringly obvious that even the atheist professors of religion, OT studies, Hebrew languages - can easily "get the point".

SpiritualBeing said:

So glaringly obvious that they easily get the point that God created the heavens and earth in 6 human days?

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As we all can see - the quote above shows them admitting to "What the text says" -- your attempt to bend-and-wrench that into " the theists believing the text" is merely your attempt at "gaming the thread". And we all can see it easily.

You knew that ... right??

SpiritualBeing said:

Sure I guess if you have no concept of independent thinking, have no clue about the Hebrew Language

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reading comprehension is a "good thing" as it turns out.

One leading Hebrew scholar is James Barr, Professor of Hebrew Bible at Vanderbilt University and former Regius Professor of Hebrew at Oxford University in England. Although he does not believe in the historicity of Genesis 1, Dr. Barr does agree that the writer's intent was to narrate the actual history of primeval creation. Others also agree with him.

"Probably, so far as I know, there is no professor of Hebrew or Old Testament at any world-class university who does not believe that the writer(s) of Genesis 1-11 intended to convey to their readers the ideas that (a) creation took place in a series of six days which were the same as the days of 24 hours we now experience; . . . Or, to put it negatively, the apologetic arguments which suppose the "days" of creation to be long eras of time, the figures of years not to be chronological, and the flood to be a merely local Mesopotamian flood, are not taken seriously by any such professors, as far as I know. "

James Barr, letter to David Watson, 1984.

BobRyan said:

Where do you find "restoration" in Genesis 1??

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I guess you didn't bother to read either of my posts.

Well, those who did read Heb 11:3. It is clearly about Genesis 1. But instead of "formed", or "framed", the actual Greek word is 'katartizo', which is a word for mending or restoration. In fact, 'katartizo' is the word actually translated in Gal 6:1 as "restore".

BobRyan said:

Genesis 2:1-4 inspired historic account --
Thus the heavens and the earth were completed, and all their hosts. 2 By the seventh day God completed His work which He had done, and He rested on the seventh day from all His work which He had done. 3 Then God blessed the seventh day and sanctified it, because in it He rested from all His work which God had created and made.
4 This is the account of the heavens and the earth when they were created, in the day that the Lord God made earth and heaven.

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One needs to research the Hebrew words translated 'created' and 'made'. They are not the same.

The Hebrew word for "create" means to create out of nothing. That would be v.1 when God spoke the universe into existence. The Hebrew word for 'made' means to make from present materials.

We see God's creating in v.1 and God's restoring (making from materials) in Gen 1.

FreeGrace2 said:

One needs to research the Hebrew words translated 'created' and 'made'. They are not the same.

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Both are used in Genesis 1 and 2.

So my question for you was - where do you find "restored" ??

The Hebrew word for "create" means to create out of nothing. That would be v.1 when God spoke the universe into existence. The Hebrew word for 'made' means to make from present materials.

We see God's creating in v.1 and God's restoring (making from materials) in Gen 1.

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You have inserted "restored". Ps 33:6 "by the WORD of the Lord were the heavens MADE" -- the idea that God could-not/did-not "make" from nothing but His Word - is demanded by the text itself.

Ps 33
6 By the word of the Lord the heavens were made,
And by the breath of His mouth all their host.
..
9 For He spoke, and it was done;
He commanded, and it stood fast.


Having said that - I have no problem with Genesis 1:1 pointing out all of creation was done by God speaking into existence - while Genesis 1:2-2:10 points to God making life on Earth and using the existing rocks and water etc as the starting point.

BobRyan said: ↑
Where do you find "restoration" in Genesis 1??

FreeGrace2 said:

I guess you didn't bother to read either of my posts.

Well, those who did read Heb 11:3. It is clearly about Genesis 1.

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Hebrews 11:3 is Greek.
Genesis 1 - is Hebrew.

Hebrews 11 is not Genesis 1.

Many new testament text refer to Genesis - but they are "not" Genesis.

But instead of "formed", or "framed", the actual Greek word is 'katartizo', which is a word for mending or restoration. In fact, 'katartizo' is the word actually translated in Gal 6:1 as "restore".

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You are using Greek context and trying to insert it into Hebrew as if Paul was trying to rewrite Genesis.

Hebrews 11 - instead of saying "made from pre-existing material" says this -

3 Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.