WHY MANY DON'T BELIEVE JESUS AS SAVIOR?

fat wee robin

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Jesus was chosen?
Look it's one person or the other but once and for all Christ Jesus is God ,Emanuel God with us.
The Holy Spirit He is God in us .
Any thing less is a presumption against the devine nature of God
Luke 10: 18. And he said unto them, I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven.
Satan was not the cause of a need for man's salvation
Free Will was the reason Adam fell not because Satan did it Adam chose to disobey.
This is starting to sound like a L.D.S.forum
I will remind you of our rules on debate and teaching.
I agree that Jesus is God incarnate ,but I don't believe that Creation is 6000 years old .If there is a Trinity He was chosen by God the Father to save the world .
For me it is not a matter of explanation ,I have always ,since I can ever remember had a relationship with my Saviour Jesus Christ .

I don't need to read the 'scriptures ' to know that .
 
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Danthemailman

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God has foreknowledge, He knows what choices will be made, but He does not make the choices for (ie to choose Jesus) The Holy Spirit does woo (draws) a person to Him, but the person makes the final choice ... or not ... and God knows what the choices will be.
Amen! Although it is our responsibility to choose to believe and we will be held accountable for unbelief (John 3:18), saving faith in Christ is never exclusively a matter of human decision. Unless the Father draws us in and enables us, we would NEVER come to believe all by ourselves. (John 6:44,65) The approach of the soul to Christ is initiated by the Father, but He doesn't force us to choose Christ, we must choose Him. The impulse to faith in Christ comes from God. :oldthumbsup:
 
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Presbyterian Continuist

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Can those who are chosen by God before the creation of the world as stated in Ephesians 1: 4, be lost? If so, isn't God's election rendered meaningless?
A person who has bee genuinely converted to Christ has undergone a transformation where they love Christ with all their heart, hate sin, especially in themselves, turn away from the world's ideas and pleasures and are totally committed to serving God in their lives. This transformation is not automatic, and must be sought for from God, and when it happens there is no doubt about it.

The problem with many churches is "easy believerism" where all is needed is for the person to pray a sinners prayer, put on the Christian badge, and is told, "You are converted now", without any real evidence that a transformation of the person's heart and spirit has taken place. This means that we have many professing Christians whose minds might be at church, but their hearts are still in the world. It is therefore no surprise that when issues and problems arise, and the love of this world draws them away, they turn their backs on Christ and are lost. It is because they were never genuinely converted to Christ in the first place. All that happened to them was they "got religion". They may have accepted Christ, but did not go on to be transformed, and therefore Christ never accepted them.
 
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Presbyterian Continuist

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Philippians 2:13:"for it is God who works in you to will and to act in order to fulfill his good purpose."

Don't christians need to know that without God working to will and act, they cannot seek God?

So rather than lead Christians to trust in their plans and efforts why not encourage them to know what God does?

Are you expecting Christians to seek after God because He who has chosen them before the creation of the world will not work from inside them?
I encourage professing Christians to seek God with all their hearts, based on the promises of God in His Word, so that they will be genuinely converted and transformed into a totally committed believer in Christ. God will work with those who mean business with Him. He will not work with half hearted religious people who still love sin and the world and try to have Christ as well.
 
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Won't God who has chosen the Savior and the saved from before the creation of the world think about that? Is your worry going to save people? So pray without worrying.

Regardless of how much you worry, aren't those not planted by the Father going to be saved?

Matthew 15:13:
"But he answered and said, Every plant, which my heavenly Father hath not planted, shall be rooted up."
How do you know that the Father has chosen you before the foundation of the world? Has the Father planted you? How can you be sure? What are you basing your faith on?
 
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Si_monfaith

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How do you know that the Father has chosen you before the foundation of the world? Has the Father planted you? How can you be sure? What are you basing your faith on?
Romans 8:16:"The Spirit himself testifies with our spirit that we are God’s children."
Isn't faith based on this testomony?
 
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Si_monfaith

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I encourage professing Christians to seek God with all their hearts, based on the promises of God in His Word, so that they will be genuinely converted and transformed into a totally committed believer in Christ. God will work with those who mean business with Him. He will not work with half hearted religious people who still love sin and the world and try to have Christ as well.
Aren't you appealing to the wisdom and strength of people rather than help them know God's work in His people?
 
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Si_monfaith

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A person who has bee genuinely converted to Christ has undergone a transformation where they love Christ with all their heart, hate sin, especially in themselves, turn away from the world's ideas and pleasures and are totally committed to serving God in their lives. This transformation is not automatic, and must be sought for from God, and when it happens there is no doubt about it.

The problem with many churches is "easy believerism" where all is needed is for the person to pray a sinners prayer, put on the Christian badge, and is told, "You are converted now", without any real evidence that a transformation of the person's heart and spirit has taken place. This means that we have many professing Christians whose minds might be at church, but their hearts are still in the world. It is therefore no surprise that when issues and problems arise, and the love of this world draws them away, they turn their backs on Christ and are lost. It is because they were never genuinely converted to Christ in the first place. All that happened to them was they "got religion". They may have accepted Christ, but did not go on to be transformed, and therefore Christ never accepted them.
Does the transformation & conversion which God gives to His chosen as in Ephesians 1: 4 unfruitful and not genuine?

John 17:3: "And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent."
Can humans do something to bring about those apart from "knowing" Him?
 
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Romans 8:16:"The Spirit himself testifies with our spirit that we are God’s children."
Isn't faith based on this testomony?
You're demonstrating faith in God's Word about the work of the Spirit.
 
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Does the transformation & conversion which God gives to His chosen as in Ephesians 1: 4 unfruitful and not genuine?

John 17:3: "And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent."
Can humans do something to bring about those apart from "knowing" Him?
I don't see how your response contradicts what I said.
 
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now faith

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You said, "he gave the Faith".

If God gave faith as you seem to agree, why would God make faith a condition to be saved?

Well because the Bible says so.

How many times does this passage have to be qouted before
Your Characterization of Ephesians 1 is flawed.
Paul was not saying all are predestined, in that all would be saved.
He was saying all were predestined to have a savior.
This would flaw Calvinest doctrine because it does not allow for those who are not predestined.
So you must use logic to comprehend the Authurs intention.
If what you perceive a text to be, but your preception is a logical fallacy , then you need to work on comprehension.
 
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now faith

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Can those who are chosen by God before the creation of the world as stated in Ephesians 1: 4, be lost? If so, isn't God's election rendered meaningless?

YES THANK YOU THIS WAS MY POINT.
Predestined to have Christ as are saviour does not mean all will be saved.
If all are not saved then some must make a freewill choice to walkaway.
God does not make a man predestined to Hell.
 
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now faith

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Why wouldn't they? I am a Calvinist, and I have a great spiritual relationship with God, with whom I have many conversations and He talks back to me! Experience always wins over an argument. Have you ever read John Calvin's Institutes of Religion?

I have studied Calvin and his burning people to death.
I have listened to the Strange Fire proponents today.
JohnMacather, Justin Peters and the rest of the hyper Calvinist who deny anything spitural about the Baptism of the Holy Spirit ,the gift of tongues ,and salvation being a progressive work.

It would seem impossible for a Charismatic Calvinest.
I would enjoy to read how this is accomplished.
 
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I have studied Calvin and his burning people to death.
I have listened to the Strange Fire proponents today.
JohnMacather, Justin Peters and the rest of the hyper Calvinist who deny anything spitural about the Baptism of the Holy Spirit ,the gift of tongues ,and salvation being a progressive work.

It would seem impossible for a Charismatic Calvinest.
I would enjoy to read how this is accomplished.
There was only one instance of a heretic being burned at the stake during Calvin's time. It was not Calvin's decision to have that happen. He was just one member of the Judicial team and he voted against it, but he was overruled by the others.

But we must remember that these men were men of their times, and heresy was a capital offence, and the standard method of execution was burning at the stake. Our modern attitudes find that pretty unpleasant and unacceptable, and thank goodness that those days have passed by.

But you must remember that Christians are being beheaded, thrown off buildings and brutally murdered in Muslim countries in these days because they are considered criminal heretics by them.
 
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now faith

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I agree that Jesus is God incarnate ,but I don't believe that Creation is 6000 years old .If there is a Trinity He was chosen by God the Father to save the world .
For me it is not a matter of explanation ,I have always ,since I can ever remember had a relationship with my Saviour Jesus Christ .


I don't need to read the 'scriptures ' to know that .

But you should read the Scriptures.
Starting in Genesis you can trace the Time man was Created until today.
What has confused scientists on dating the earth was the Flood.
Water erupted from the earth and changed the sedentary layers.
Carbon dating is flawed due to the amount of radiation in the area of what your dating.
The Word trinity is not used in the Bible, yet we have Christ speaking about the 3 being one.
Jesus Christ is God, the Holy Spirit is God and God the Father is God.
God said let us make Man in our own image...
Man is a Spirit , a Soul and a Body.our universe is based on a trinity.
Time, Space ,and Matter.
Even atoms are 3 yet one Protons, Newtrons, and Electrons.
So the idea that one thing cannot be 3 things is clearly evident.
 
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now faith

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There was only one instance of a heretic being burned at the stake during Calvin's time. It was not Calvin's decision to have that happen. He was just one member of the Judicial team and he voted against it, but he was overruled by the others.

But we must remember that these men were men of their times, and heresy was a capital offence, and the standard method of execution was burning at the stake. Our modern attitudes find that pretty unpleasant and unacceptable, and thank goodness that those days have passed by.

But you must remember that Christians are being beheaded, thrown off buildings and brutally murdered in Muslim countries in these days because they are considered criminal heretics by them.

Not by Reformation founders.
Is Micheal Servetus the heretic mentioned?
He simply disagreed with Calvin's doctrine.
Calvin has murdered 37 people according to the reformation society.
Other sources have the slaughter in Geneva at 55.
Calvin plagerized Augisitine of Hippo, and was influnced by his teaching.

Quote Wikipedia :
the subject of justification by faith alone. He defined justification as "the acceptance by which God regards us as righteous whom he has received into grace."[97] In this definition, it is clear that it is God who initiates and carries through the action and that people play no role; God is completely sovereign in salvation.[98] Near the end of the book, Calvin describes and defends the doctrine of predestination, a doctrine advanced by Augustine in opposition to the teachings of Pelagius. Fellow theologians who followed the Augustinian tradition on this point included Thomas Aquinas and Martin Luther,[99] though Calvin's formulation of the doctrine went further than the tradition that went before him.[100] The principle, in Calvin's words, is that "All are not created on equal terms, but some are preordained to eternal life, others to eternal damnation; and, accordingly, as each has been created for one or other of these ends, we say that he has been predestinated to life or to death."[101]

The final book describes what he considers to be the true Church and its ministry, authority, and sacraments. He denied the papal claim to primacy and the accusation that the reformers were schismatic. For Calvin, the Church was defined as the body of believers who placed Christ at its head. By definition, there was only one "catholic" or "universal" Church. Hence, he argued that the reformers "had to leave them in order that we might come to Christ."[102] The ministers of the Church are described from a passage from Ephesians, and they consisted of apostles, prophets, evangelists, pastors, and doctors. Calvin regarded the first three offices as temporary, limited in their existence to the time of the New Testament. The latter two offices were established in the church in Geneva. Although Calvin respected the work of the ecumenical councils, he considered them to be subject to God's Word found in scripture. He also believed that the civil and church authorities were separate and should not interfere with each other.[103]

Unqoute.

To state you are a Calvinest , eludes to a follower of a man made dogma that has no value in God's Kingdom.
We are to follow Christ and Christ alone, we do not need any man teach us.
 
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