Christians: How do you reconcile the problem of evil?

Spikey

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Then you have no grounds on which to evaluate truth, especially the truth of God.
Sure I do.. Your book is just one of many I can evaluate and dismiss.
Actually it does. God has revealed Himself generally through all of Creation and specifically through His inerrant word of the Bible. If you reject the Bible, you can't know God.
Or your particular version of God you mean?
"if it makes sense" sounds like an appeal to you as the ultimate authority.
I make no apology for only believing in things that make sense, you should try it.
No. But understanding and knowing God comes only from His work of grace in the heart of the believer.
Well good for you believers then I guess.
 
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JoeP222w

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Sure I do.. Your book is just one of many I can evaluate and dismiss.

Then you make yourself god and that is idolatry and one day you will stand before the God you hate and give account for your life, unless He does a work of grace on your heart.

Or your particular version of God you mean?

I don't have a "version" of God. The is only one true and living God. And He is not dependent on my belief in Him nor your reject of Him to validate (or invalidate) His existence.

I make no apology for only believing in things that make sense, you should try it.

You have no accounting for knowledge in your rejection of God. The fear of the Lord is the beginning of knowledge.

Well good for you believers then I guess.

God is indeed very good to those who repent of their sin and trust in Him, not because their is something special in the believer, in and of themselves, but because God is grace and mercy. You don't want His righteous wrath and justice, so I call on you to repent of your idolatry of self and humble yourself before God, He is the only one who can save you.
 
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Spikey

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Then you make yourself god and that is idolatry and one day you will stand before the God you hate and give account for your life, unless He does a work of grace on your heart.
Where have I said I hate God? It would be very silly to have any feeling toward anything that I don't think exists.
And a just God would fully understand my position.
I don't have a "version" of God. The is only one true and living God. And He is not dependent on my belief in Him nor your reject of Him to validate (or invalidate) His existence.
Okay, well let's just ignore all the other Gods that mankind has cooked up.
You have no accounting for knowledge in your rejection of God. The fear of the Lord is the beginning of knowledge.
Fear should not be part of the equation.. Maybe you should think about what the driving force is behind your faith.
God is indeed very good to those who repent of their sin and trust in Him, not because their is something special in the believer, in and of themselves, but because God is grace and mercy. You don't want His righteous wrath and justice, so I call on you to repent of your idolatry of self and humble yourself before God, He is the only one who can save you.
Like I said.. Maybe you should think about what the driving force is behind your faith.
 
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JoeP222w

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Where have I said I hate God?

When you chose to reject His word of truth in the Bible.

It would be very silly to have any feeling toward anything that I don't think exists.

And yet here you are on Christian Forums. Why would someone who rejects God be on a purported Christian website?

And a just God would fully understand my position.

He does understand that you are a rebel sinner and His wrath abides on you because He is just and will not turn a blind eye to your sin.

Okay, well let's just ignore all the other Gods that mankind has cooked up.

As I said, there are no other gods, just idols of man's imagination.

Fear should not be part of the equation.

Is that true? And how do you know that to be true?

It is right to fear God, because He is good, holy and righteous and we are not.

Maybe you should think about what the driving force is behind your faith.

The driving force behind my faith is not a force at all, but the work of God's grace through Jesus Christ.
 
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Spikey

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When you chose to reject His word of truth in the Bible.
I also dismiss The Chamber of Secrets as untrue.. Does that mean I hate Voldemort?
And yet here you are on Christian Forums. Why would someone who rejects God be on a purported Christian website?
I don't know? Boredom?
He does understand that you are a rebel sinner and His wrath abides on you because He is just and will not turn a blind eye to your sin.
But I can sin all I like, as long as before I'm judged I repent and turn to him? Great system.
As I said, there are no other gods, just idols of man's imagination.
What makes your God any different?
Is that true? And how do you know that to be true?

It is right to fear God, because He is good, holy and righteous and we are not.
A loving God would not use fear to manipulate the thoughts and actions of his children, call me old fashioned but forcing your children to love you by using threats is not an admirable quality.
The driving force behind my faith is not a force at all, but the work of God's grace through Jesus Christ.
Keep telling yourself that.
 
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JoeP222w

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I also dismiss The Chamber of Secrets as untrue.. Does that mean I hate Voldemort?

I don't examine works of fiction in this category. Harry Potter has absolutely no comparison to God and His truth.

But I can sin all I like, as long as before I'm judged I repent and turn to him? Great system.

By no means. That is not how it works.

Romans 6:1 What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin that grace may abound?

Moreover, you do not know the hour of your death. You are not promised tomorrow. Today is the day of salvation.

What makes your God any different?

He actually exists and has created all things, including you.

A loving God would not use fear to manipulate the thoughts and actions of his children, call me old fashioned but forcing your children to love you by using threats is not an admirable quality.

Thank you for demonstrating that the Bible is true.

Romans 9:18-23 So then he has mercy on whomever he wills, and he hardens whomever he wills. (19) You will say to me then, “Why does he still find fault? For who can resist his will?” (20) But who are you, O man, to answer back to God? Will what is molded say to its molder, “Why have you made me like this?” (21) Has the potter no right over the clay, to make out of the same lump one vessel for honorable use and another for dishonorable use? (22) What if God, desiring to show his wrath and to make known his power, has endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction, (23) in order to make known the riches of his glory for vessels of mercy, which he has prepared beforehand for glory—
 
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Spikey

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He actually exists and has created all things, including you.
I thought that was my folks after a few too many down the pub.
Thank you for demonstrating that the Bible is true.

Romans 9:18-23 So then he has mercy on whomever he wills, and he hardens whomever he wills. (19) You will say to me then, “Why does he still find fault? For who can resist his will?” (20) But who are you, O man, to answer back to God? Will what is molded say to its molder, “Why have you made me like this?” (21) Has the potter no right over the clay, to make out of the same lump one vessel for honorable use and another for dishonorable use? (22) What if God, desiring to show his wrath and to make known his power, has endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction, (23) in order to make known the riches of his glory for vessels of mercy, which he has prepared beforehand for glory—
Okay you got me... See you in church on Sunday.:wave:
 
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JoeP222w

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I thought that was my folks after a few too many down the pub.

God is the Creator of life, and He uses man and woman as a means.

Okay you got me... See you in church on Sunday.

I would much rather see you repent of your unbelief and lawlessness and turn to Jesus Christ so that you might live. Going to church is a side effect of the gospel of Jesus Christ.
 
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Spikey

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God is the Creator of life, and He uses man and woman as a means.
And you know this because the bible says so.. We don't know yet how life began on this planet, just because we don't know, that doesn't mean we will never know and just put it down to Goddidit.

I would much rather see you repent of your unbelief and lawlessness and turn to Jesus Christ so that you might live. Going to church is a side effect of the gospel of Jesus Christ.
I was kidding, you know that right? Why do you assume that I would want to live forever? I'm happy with a finite existence, and a well deserved rest after my death.
 
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JoeP222w

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And you know this because the bible says so.. We don't know yet how life began on this planet, just because we don't know, that doesn't mean we will never know and just put it down to Goddidit.

We do know you simply suppress the truth in your unrighteousness.

I'm happy with a finite existence, and a well deserved rest after my death.

If you continue to reject the truth of God, you will not have rest after death, and right now you are under the wrath of God.
 
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Drifter Kybe Scythe Kane

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I see that this is going on right now, and it's very tragic.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/nati...ory.html?noredirect=on&utm_term=.a98253640d75

I used to be a Christian. I attended church regularly, believed God existed and prayed regularly. But I never gave it much thought when tragedy struck that God wasn't doing anything.

Now that I'm a non-believer, I wonder how Christians go about reconciling the problem of evil?
If God loves everyone and can do anything, then he must not know about catastrophes
If God loves everyone and knows everything, then he must be incapable of doing anything about catastrophes
If God can do anything and knows everything, then he must not love the victims and their families enough to want to do anything.

How do you reconcile it?
yea, it just isn't right. i guess to christians that's where god enter the picture and intervenes by miracles, and sometimes doesn't for i guess testament of strength to them as god's tool for those things...to fight the good fight...to carry that cross...but i just believe in it as an agnostic and not know it as some full fledged christian. that's their sound of truth. i feel so sorry for the people that has to counter this horrible fire. but maybe you can see it as a deal from god. he made you...now it's up to you to make do with all the wonderful things he made for people...at least the good things for christians at least.
 
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Spikey

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We do know you simply suppress the truth in your unrighteousness.
No we don't know anything about the origins of life on this planet, we have a hypothesis but that is all at the present time... Claiming that you know where life came from is a big claim, a claim that needs better evidence than an ancient set of books.
If you continue to reject the truth of God, you will not have rest after death, and right now you are under the wrath of God.
I could say the same to you about Allah. I wouldn't though because that would be just as silly as your position.
Threats of eternal torture should never be used against children... What a disgusting recruitment technique.
 
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JoeP222w

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No we don't know anything about the origins of life on this planet, we have a hypothesis but that is all at the present time

You speak only for yourself.

Claiming that you know where life came from is a big claim, a claim that needs better evidence than an ancient set of books.

Again, you are not the judge. You have the evidence, you simply reject it because you love your sin.

I could say the same to you about Allah.

You could but you would be wrong and inconsistent with the claim that you are an Atheist.

Threats of eternal torture should never be used against children... What a disgusting recruitment technique.

Is it a threat if I am walking down the street and see your house on fire and bang on your door an warn you to get out of the house because it is on fire? If you see that as a threat it is only because you demonstrate that you love your sin and hate God.
 
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food4thought

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Hebrews 11:6 NASB And without faith it is impossible to please Him, for he who comes to God must believe that He is and that He is a rewarder of those who seek Him.

To begin with, God requires faith of us. The reason for this is that there is no way for God to reveal Himself to us in a ways that would irrefutably demonstrate that He is the uncreated, eternal, all powerful, all knowing, all present God. No matter what He does, some will still think He is only some highly advanced being that evolved so far beyond us that he seems to be a "god". Yet that is not who God is! He is entirely other. Not created, no beginning or end, eternal and timeless. So ultimately we must take the existence of God on faith.

That said, most of what we call disasters, as well as disease, are the result of God's general curse on the world because of sin. All the suffering and hurt can be traced back to the consequences of sin. Jesus made an interesting statement on such things:

Luke 13:1-5 NASB Now on the same occasion there were some present who reported to Him about the Galileans whose blood Pilate had mixed with their sacrifices. (2) And Jesus said to them, "Do you suppose that these Galileans were greater sinners than all other Galileans because they suffered this fate? (3) "I tell you, no, but unless you repent, you will all likewise perish. (4) "Or do you suppose that those eighteen on whom the tower in Siloam fell and killed them were worse culprits than all the men who live in Jerusalem? (5) "I tell you, no, but unless you repent, you will all likewise perish."

We are all sinners under the judgment of a perfectly holy and righteous and just God. We are all sentenced to death because of our sins, and, ultimately, it matters not whether we die a "natural" death alone or die with many others as a result of some kind of disaster-- we still die.

What ultimately matters is what we do with the life, death, and resurrection of Jesus Christ... with the exception of those alive when Jesus returns for His church, believing will not stop us from dying a physical death (separation of the soul from the body), but it will prevent us from experiencing the second death (separation of the soul from God).

Yet God is also perfectly loving, merciful, compassionate, and good. The cross is where all of these characteristics of God meet in perfect balance. The holy God's righteous judgment on sin is satisfied, and His love and mercy towards sinners is manifested. Only thru Jesus Christ can we make sense of a God who is perfectly holy, righteous, just, and yet also good, merciful, loving, and compassionate. It all hangs upon whether we choose to place our faith in Him.

Hope this helps;
Michael
 
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Undercover_mormon

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I see that this is going on right now, and it's very tragic.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/nati...ory.html?noredirect=on&utm_term=.a98253640d75

I used to be a Christian. I attended church regularly, believed God existed and prayed regularly. But I never gave it much thought when tragedy struck that God wasn't doing anything.

Now that I'm a non-believer, I wonder how Christians go about reconciling the problem of evil?
If God loves everyone and can do anything, then he must not know about catastrophes
If God loves everyone and knows everything, then he must be incapable of doing anything about catastrophes
If God can do anything and knows everything, then he must not love the victims and their families enough to want to do anything.

How do you reconcile it?


The problem of evil... big topic, and many will say its a complicated one, i dont know if i'm being cocky or pretentious, or simply that God gave me some understanding, but i dont see it as that big of a problem. here's why:

God from the beggining, created Mankind to his image, ie bearing God's nature, and that's a nature of creativity and free will. Just like God can do as he wish, and just like he can create, so we can create from nothing (poetry, music, etc.) and so we have free will. Also, God can love... well God is all love, and like so, for us to be able to truly love, we need that mentioned free will too; as you see free will is pretty important for us bearing His image. Because we need to be free and to have free will to Love, that means that the contrary MUST be true, a computer saying "I love you" isnt loving you, since that is hard coded, the computer cant REALLY decide, so creating us only with the power to "Love" but without being able to despise, hate, and abhor, its not trully creating us with the power to love. Because of this God HAD to create us with the choice for evil, only then can we truly experience and give love.

Why God doesnt act on evil?
well, he certainly does, from a top down perspective, he will end all evil at some point, however, that will be at the end of times, at that point, everyone would have chosen between Him (Love, good, charity, abnegation etc) or not (disobedience, hate, self righteousness), so then God can have an earth full of truly free individuals that chosed to love, with no longer a need or a temptation to sin, and remembering what sin cause, those people wont sin, as it has no incentive and only causes death.

why doesnt God act NOW?
well, he certainly does, to a point, a life of hate, evil, and so on brings about self destruction, brings no true joy, and certainly will bring shallowness (for the more extreme sin, not for the run of the mill atheist that is still a lovely person otherwise)
Its true that some people are allowed to do much evil, just like Hitler did and that could be for a number of reasons... 1, God could have used hitler as the prophecized punishment for israel for going astray... thats controvertial, but its a position... whereas, my "solution" is quite simply, here on earth, if God were micromanaging everything, killing that guy, or dropping a heavenly piano on someone just before raping, although cool, it would sink the world into a state of fear, not love. we would comply with God from fear of getting an anvil dropped on us from above, and not from love. we would give money out of selfishness, not out of charity, and so on.
For short, God micromanaging everything would be more a dictatorship than rather than a utopia


Why does God allow tragedy?
in this case it depends... it could very well because God knows that something worse could come later, or simply because He knows that person has reached its peak weather understanding or whatever, it could be because a miriad of reasons, but i really think its always for the better.
An abusive father can create a hatred towards abuse by the child and be a blessing, or simply again, God doesnt want to create such a dictatorship and must allow for our free will to be let loose. it all comes down to:
for us to be able to love, enjoy, bless and be happy, the alternatives of hatred, dullness, curse, and sadness must exist. This becomes quite apparent in well off countries, where people take for granted things like running potable water, or having days off as well as medication, schooling, phones, etc. and become bored even when having so much more entretainment than the happy kid playing with a stick in the middle of subsaharan africa.
Finally it becomes even more apparent when such priviledged people see what others live though, and that comparison makes them happier and more thankful, even if nothing changed




TLDR:
God wanted us free and able to love
if we truly love, we have to be able to not love, but quite the contrary too
if God were to micromanage everything on earth, we'd be afraid, not in love with Him
 
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The Gryphon

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LOL, ying and yang, light and dark, good and evil. If you lost your faith after experiencing evil, oh yea of little faith. I have seen so much evil over my long lifetime. Why, before I was saved I did evil. I not only believe G_d exists I KNOW G_d exists because of what I have seen and experienced over my lifetime. I have seen the very laws of nature as we understand them set aside by G_d to save my life. I have seen and experienced events and things 99.5% of humans would refuse to believe are even possible and yet I know they are true. True some I did take by Faith but some I discovered were all to real and physical. Praise be to G_d for without Him I would have died so many times over! When you learn to hear that voice within that is guiding you by faith your life changes. Yes I have watched good people die horrible deaths (I have walked through the valley of death but He was with me; he comforted me, watched over me and saved me). I learned to trust Him and lost my fear of death. I lost my family, including my younger sister, my friends, and my parents, and though at times this world is a lonely place I understand that it is then when I feel alone He is carrying me! How can I fear evil when G_d is carrying me? When I feel most alone and that this world is not worth saving Jesus makes me see something through His eyes and I feel so ashamed that I lost sight of the prize. I often do not feel much attachment to this world and so many of the modern people in it as their thinking is so foreign to mine. I so often feel like a man aboard a ship sailing in foreign waters even around the few family members I have left. I find myself asking the Lord how much longer Lord until I can come home?

G_d does not allow evil. Man causes evil out of selfish behavior and greed. G_d has a plan an He putting that plan into action. If you want to see things change then offer yourself up as a sacrifice and a vessel that He can use for change! I once did such things eagerly but I confess I grow weary as my body is WEAK and tired all the time. Offer yourself up to the Holy Spirit of G_d to seek out every part of you that He can use you for G_d's Will. Be forewarned as He will and you will experience things you never thought possible! Love G_d with all your HEART and ask Him to use you for His will and not your will! This life is a trial period to find out who you really are inside to the depth of your being. Will you choose self centeredness or service to others? Will you choose G_d and good or evil? It is all about choices that you make.
 
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MatthewG27

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I see that this is going on right now, and it's very tragic.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/nati...ory.html?noredirect=on&utm_term=.a98253640d75

I used to be a Christian. I attended church regularly, believed God existed and prayed regularly. But I never gave it much thought when tragedy struck that God wasn't doing anything.

Now that I'm a non-believer, I wonder how Christians go about reconciling the problem of evil?
If God loves everyone and can do anything, then he must not know about catastrophes
If God loves everyone and knows everything, then he must be incapable of doing anything about catastrophes
If God can do anything and knows everything, then he must not love the victims and their families enough to want to do anything.

How do you reconcile it?

Well, by your link of just wildfires, I would like to establish that God has nothing to do with this. God doesn't send twisters, hurricanes, or devastations on to the planet as far as my beliefs going, in trusting in Him.

Now that I'm a non-believer, I wonder how Christians go about reconciling the problem of evil?
Well, that depends on the person who is making the choice to do evil, it is their own choice if they decide to steal, lie, murder, hate, doing anything that would be considered evil to the Christian believer who believes in the Lord Jesus Christ.

The only reconcile that would be left for someone who has already done all of those things (because all humans are sinners) is to turn from the darkness, and walk towards the light, maybe due to their lack of faith on God, and the Lord Jesus Christ.

That was the purpose that the Lord Jesus Christ came to help do for us, that by having faith we can go and walk towards the Light instead of the consuming clutches of the darkness which many people would blame Satan for... But the bible says humans are enticed by their desires, and thoughts with-in the context of their very own mind. From my understanding Darkness resides in us first, until we find the light.

T
he Lord Jesus Christ, and are spiritually awaken, in understanding about how God loves us, and wants us to have Him, and the Knowledge of His Son in our life, and to run to them, in prayer and supplication daily as we spiritually grow, and as we continue to walk on this earth with all of its trials, troubles and tribulation, so we can at least experience a form of peace by the holy spirit that indwells believers.

If God loves everyone and knows everything, then he must be incapable of doing anything about catastrophes.

I just seem them as natural occurrences I do not look to put God in the mix of as if this is His doing, and I also do not believe God is going to put people in hell forever and ever and ever. Instead they if they die a non-believer, they will just end up outside the city gates of God where the gates never close and in their own time they will come into the Light after this life, and accept the truth of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. (
You can find out more about Gods city in the Last 2 Chapters of The Revelation of Jesus Christ )

If God can do anything and knows everything, then he must not love the victims and their families enough to want to do anything.

He does, God loves everyone, just because these tragic events occur doesn't mean a whole lot, it is natural occurrences, He loves everyone so much, that He isn't going to put them in Hell forever, and ever and ever.


Natural Occurrences are all material, where God is from is all spiritual. So I do not co-relate them as the same thing.

To Miss Kim. I did not read any other post, and I only read yours and understand that this post is from nearly 3 months ago now. But I hope my responses are articulative and that you can find some understanding in my reasoning, have a blessed day everyone this board, and who decided to read this message.

Best Regards,
MatthewG27


 
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Hawkins

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How do you reconcile it?

I posted this else where. Your assumption made is that earth should be heaven-like, but in fact earth is supposed to be more hell-like.

======
Job was on earth. Earth is influenced by Satan before the final judgment. That's the way how human freewill is exercised by humans such that a final judgment will follow.

The big picture is you have only 2 sides of a world, that is, living in the same realm with God or not. If not, anything could happen. God only choose to maintain what lying inside His realm. Earth is actually lying outside God's realm ever since the fall of Adam after he's kicked out of Eden. On the other hand since God has an unfinished job here that earth is more like a "middle ground". You and everyone still have a choice to choose between God and no God.

Satan and all fallen angels were cast into the Earth area (in another facet we call Hades). They can still cast influence to this world (which lying outside God's realm). That's how Satan keeps everyone captive. Satan is more a magnet with a pole, it attracts the bad ones toward him but for God to choose the best to save. It's like you are asked to separate a pool of iron and zinc beads. A magnet saves you tons of work.
======

That said. God's main job here on earth is to save souls, not bodies. Everyone will have to die in one way or another. Not a particular way of dying has an obvious advantage. Dying slowly on a dead bad can be more painful than dying in a disaster. More importantly is whether one's soul is saved or not. Everyone is asked to believe Jesus as soon as he can, when living in our this world.
 
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The problem of evil has two forms: logical and probable

Epicurus is credited with the formulation approximately 2300 years ago.



They will familiarize you with the argument and then we can discuss the various premises.
 
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