"Put together all the tenderest love you know of, multiply it by infinity, and you will begin to see glimpses of the love and grace of God." -Hannah Whitall Smith-
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The Restitution Of All Things A.K.A. Universalism
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"Put together all the tenderest love you know of, multiply it by infinity, and you will begin to see glimpses of the love and grace of God." -Hannah Whitall Smith-
Lazarus Short
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I don't care to play "proof-text ping pong" with anyone, but consider my comments on Psalm 136, from my book "Hel, Hell and the KJV":
Psalm 136
Here I read (26 times!) this: “…his mercy endureth for ever.” Compare this God of mercy to the Hell theory god, who grants us our precious Free Will, and then when we exercise it badly, even in ignorance, He relegates us to Hell with no chance of reprieve. Compare the real Jesus, Who prayed to His Father for the sinners who were killing Him, to the Jesus of Mary K. Baxter who tells the damned in so many words, “Too bad, you screwed up, and here you are.” (Yes, I did read her book.) For that matter, take a look at the behavior of Jesus’ early followers, in the days when universal reconciliation (or whatever term they used at the time) was orthodoxy, versus the violence, torture, and bloodshed which later set in after the Hell theory became dominant. I know that during this period, entire nations disappeared from history, and others nearly did, for what the Church considered heresy.
You see, gentle reader, either the Hell theory is correct, or God’s mercy endures forever – both cannot be true at the same time. If God’s mercy does endure forever, and I believe it does, then people cannot be sent to eternal torture, whatever excuses some may make for it – burning the wicked to ashes is more merciful, but as we shall see, God has more mercy in store for us than that. Let me say it again, for it bears repeating: universal reconciliation is mercy, annihilation is mercy (sort of), but eternal torture cannot be mercy. Psalm 136 and the Hell theory cannot both be true, and Psalm 136 is true.
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Dear Lazarus: We my friend are on the same page again today. I awoke this morning with aionios stirring in my broken brain, fortunately my heart still works. Aionios is not a time word at all, rather a dimension of quality, which I intend to present at a later time.
But you have posted of the amazing mercy of our Father. That my friend is precisely what I just posted on a couple of other sites that bear with me.
Welcome to the man of God, George MacDonald.
Also unto thee, O Lord, belongeth mercy; for thou renderest to every man according to his work.--PSALM lxii. 12.
Some of the translators make it kindness and goodness; but I presume there is no real difference among them as to the character of the word which here, in the English Bible, is translated mercy.
The religious mind, however, educated upon the theories yet prevailing in the so-called religious world, must here recognize a departure from the presentation to which they have been accustomed: to make the psalm speak according to prevalent theoretic modes, the verse would have to be changed thus:
--'To thee, O Lord, belongeth justice, for thou renderest to every man according to his work.'
Let the reason of my choosing this passage, so remarkable in itself, for a motto to the sermon which follows, remain for the present doubtful. I need hardly say that I mean to found no logical argument upon it.
Let us endeavour to see plainly what we mean when we use the word justice, and whether we mean what we ought to mean when we use it--especially with reference to God. Let us come nearer to knowing what we ought to understand by justice, that is, the justice of God; for his justice is the live, active justice, giving existence to the idea of justice in our minds and hearts. Because he is just, we are capable of knowing justice; it is because he is just, that we have the idea of justice so deeply imbedded in us.
Continued below
Unspoken Sermons by George MacDonald: Justice
But you have posted of the amazing mercy of our Father. That my friend is precisely what I just posted on a couple of other sites that bear with me.
Welcome to the man of God, George MacDonald.
Also unto thee, O Lord, belongeth mercy; for thou renderest to every man according to his work.--PSALM lxii. 12.
Some of the translators make it kindness and goodness; but I presume there is no real difference among them as to the character of the word which here, in the English Bible, is translated mercy.
The religious mind, however, educated upon the theories yet prevailing in the so-called religious world, must here recognize a departure from the presentation to which they have been accustomed: to make the psalm speak according to prevalent theoretic modes, the verse would have to be changed thus:
--'To thee, O Lord, belongeth justice, for thou renderest to every man according to his work.'
Let the reason of my choosing this passage, so remarkable in itself, for a motto to the sermon which follows, remain for the present doubtful. I need hardly say that I mean to found no logical argument upon it.
Let us endeavour to see plainly what we mean when we use the word justice, and whether we mean what we ought to mean when we use it--especially with reference to God. Let us come nearer to knowing what we ought to understand by justice, that is, the justice of God; for his justice is the live, active justice, giving existence to the idea of justice in our minds and hearts. Because he is just, we are capable of knowing justice; it is because he is just, that we have the idea of justice so deeply imbedded in us.
Continued below
Unspoken Sermons by George MacDonald: Justice
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Lazarus Short
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The Bible Eons=
THE TEACHING OF THE SCRIPTURES about the eons provides answers to frustrating questions concerning the meaning of human existence. God’s purpose in creating man, and God’s purpose of the eons are inseparably related. Many are unfamiliar with this important subject because the facts have been concealed by incorrect and misleading translations of the Bible from the original languages into English.
The eons are the longest periods of time referred to in the Scriptures. Time-wise they are of indefinite duration, but event-wise they are distinctly marked off by great cataclysms which affect the whole earth.
FACTS REVEALED CONCERNING THE EONS
The eons of the Bible With Concordance, Gods purpose of the eons.
THE TEACHING OF THE SCRIPTURES about the eons provides answers to frustrating questions concerning the meaning of human existence. God’s purpose in creating man, and God’s purpose of the eons are inseparably related. Many are unfamiliar with this important subject because the facts have been concealed by incorrect and misleading translations of the Bible from the original languages into English.
The eons are the longest periods of time referred to in the Scriptures. Time-wise they are of indefinite duration, but event-wise they are distinctly marked off by great cataclysms which affect the whole earth.
FACTS REVEALED CONCERNING THE EONS
The eons of the Bible With Concordance, Gods purpose of the eons.
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Aionios= Time or Quality
T wo readers wrote with similar questions about the Greek word aionios as it appears in the Bible. They questioned the translation or definition of the Greek word with the English word “eternal” or “everlasting.”
I understand the meaning of the word aionios (often appearing in genitive plural aionion ) in Greek to carry the connotation of ‘pertaining to the age’ or ‘age enduring.’ The word is a form of the word we have borrowed into English from the Latin transliteration of the Greek as aeon or eon . The problems in interpreting it as the English “eternal” or “everlasting” are several.
Let’s get in focus some working principles of languages, meaning and translation. First of all, a word in one language and the culture it represents does not “mean” a word or the cultural concept it carries in another language.
Usage
Keep in mind that a “definition” is only a summary of how a word has been used. Meanings are all determined by usage. This what makes human speech so creative, dynamic, expressive and flexible. Inadequate assumptions about words, language and meaning can mislead us from the beginning.
So we first need to take a step back to look at the cultural or worldview concept. What we do is look at how we find a word being used. We honor the language and its cultural integrity. We do not assume in language that there is some objective authoritative “meaning” or “definition” that prescribes what a word can or must mean. That is not how language works.
We consider what underlying ideas are carried in words in a particular language. No language is independent of a historical, cultural context and the worldview of the culture using that language.
Thus in the strictest term, a word in Greek does not “mean” in English. Greek words “mean” what the Greek speaker was thinking in the Greek-speaking environment of that era and location. Similarly, today a Greek speaker is not referencing anything in English when he thinks and speaks fluently in his native tongue, or reads his Bible in his native tongue! Greek “means” in “Greek.”
The English speaker/reader must get into that world to determine meaning, then search for the most adequate word or phrase to express that in the English language and cultural-social context.
Continued below
Time or Character, The Ages or A Time Sequence in <em>aionios</em>: How Words “Mean” in Greek and English 1
T wo readers wrote with similar questions about the Greek word aionios as it appears in the Bible. They questioned the translation or definition of the Greek word with the English word “eternal” or “everlasting.”
I understand the meaning of the word aionios (often appearing in genitive plural aionion ) in Greek to carry the connotation of ‘pertaining to the age’ or ‘age enduring.’ The word is a form of the word we have borrowed into English from the Latin transliteration of the Greek as aeon or eon . The problems in interpreting it as the English “eternal” or “everlasting” are several.
Let’s get in focus some working principles of languages, meaning and translation. First of all, a word in one language and the culture it represents does not “mean” a word or the cultural concept it carries in another language.
Usage
Keep in mind that a “definition” is only a summary of how a word has been used. Meanings are all determined by usage. This what makes human speech so creative, dynamic, expressive and flexible. Inadequate assumptions about words, language and meaning can mislead us from the beginning.
So we first need to take a step back to look at the cultural or worldview concept. What we do is look at how we find a word being used. We honor the language and its cultural integrity. We do not assume in language that there is some objective authoritative “meaning” or “definition” that prescribes what a word can or must mean. That is not how language works.
We consider what underlying ideas are carried in words in a particular language. No language is independent of a historical, cultural context and the worldview of the culture using that language.
Thus in the strictest term, a word in Greek does not “mean” in English. Greek words “mean” what the Greek speaker was thinking in the Greek-speaking environment of that era and location. Similarly, today a Greek speaker is not referencing anything in English when he thinks and speaks fluently in his native tongue, or reads his Bible in his native tongue! Greek “means” in “Greek.”
The English speaker/reader must get into that world to determine meaning, then search for the most adequate word or phrase to express that in the English language and cultural-social context.
Continued below
Time or Character, The Ages or A Time Sequence in <em>aionios</em>: How Words “Mean” in Greek and English 1
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he-man
he-man
eternity (n.) late 14c., "quality of being eternal," from Old French eternité "eternity, perpetuity" (12c.), from Latin aeternitatem (nominative aeternitas), from aeternus "enduring, permanent," contraction of aeviternus "of great age," from aevum "age" (from PIE root *aiw- "vital force, life; long life, eternity"). Meaning "infinite time" is from 1580s. In the Mercian hymns, Latin aeternum is glossed by Old English ecnisse.
*aiw- also *ayu-, Proto-Indo-European root meaning "vital force, life; long life, eternity." It forms all or part of: age ….eternity; ever; every
eon (n.) 1640s, from Late Latin aeon, from Greek aiōn "age, vital force; a period of existence, a lifetime, a generation; a long space of time," in plural, "eternity," from PIE root *aiw- "vital force, life, long life, eternity."
Related: Eonian; eonic.
aeon (n.) "immeasurable period of time," 1640s
everlasting early 13c., "eternal" (adj.); "eternally" (adv.); "eternity" (n.); from ever + lasting. Colloquially in mid-19c. U.S., "very …
coeternal (adj.) also co-eternal, "existing with another for eternity," late 14c., from Medieval Latin, from Late Latin coaeternus; see co- + eternal. …
ever (adv.) First element is almost certainly related to Old English a "always, ever," from Proto-Germanic *aiwi-, extended form of PIE root *aiw- "vital force, life; long life, eternity." Liberman suggests second element is comparative adjectival suffix -re.
Online Etymology Dictionary
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The concluding definition for aionios found in The Vocabulary of the Greek Testament (edited by James Hope Moulton and George Milligan):=
“In general, the word depicts that of which the horizon is not in view, whether the horizon be at an infinite distance, or whether it lies no farther than the span of a Caesar’s life.” That is, the word stands for a “hidden” and indefinite duration of time, whether past or future. This seems to be the meaning of olam in the Hebrew Bible, and since aion and aionion seem to have been employed by the inspired writers of the NT as the Greek equivalents of this single Hebrew word, this definition would be most consistent. And as it seems likely that Jesus would’ve spoken Hebrew or Aramaic (at least, when he was speaking to his disciples, like in Matt 25:46), the word he would have used would have either been olam or alam .
Hebrew Olam=
HEBREW WORD STUDIES עוֹלָם, 'olam' for 'everlasting, age-lasting'
Leontius of Byzantium writes "the word aeon in in reality used of a definite period, both by heathen and sacred writers"
The original Hebrew Bible was translated into Greek, by seventy scholars, and hence called “The Septuagint,” B.C. 200-300, and the Hebrew word Olam is, in almost all cases, translated Aión Aiónios etc., ( Aíwv , Aíwvios ,) so that the two words may be regarded as synonymous with each other. In the New Testament the same words Aión and its derivatives, are the original Greek of the English words, Eternal, Everlasting, Forever, etc. .
“In general, the word depicts that of which the horizon is not in view, whether the horizon be at an infinite distance, or whether it lies no farther than the span of a Caesar’s life.” That is, the word stands for a “hidden” and indefinite duration of time, whether past or future. This seems to be the meaning of olam in the Hebrew Bible, and since aion and aionion seem to have been employed by the inspired writers of the NT as the Greek equivalents of this single Hebrew word, this definition would be most consistent. And as it seems likely that Jesus would’ve spoken Hebrew or Aramaic (at least, when he was speaking to his disciples, like in Matt 25:46), the word he would have used would have either been olam or alam .
Hebrew Olam=
HEBREW WORD STUDIES עוֹלָם, 'olam' for 'everlasting, age-lasting'
Leontius of Byzantium writes "the word aeon in in reality used of a definite period, both by heathen and sacred writers"
The original Hebrew Bible was translated into Greek, by seventy scholars, and hence called “The Septuagint,” B.C. 200-300, and the Hebrew word Olam is, in almost all cases, translated Aión Aiónios etc., ( Aíwv , Aíwvios ,) so that the two words may be regarded as synonymous with each other. In the New Testament the same words Aión and its derivatives, are the original Greek of the English words, Eternal, Everlasting, Forever, etc. .
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The Destruction Of The Wicked
The "Destruction" of the Wicked
Roger Tutt
A Page Of Hope
Hope 4 You, Roger Tutt
"Put together all the tenderest love you know of, multiply it by infinity, and you will begin to see glimpses of the love and grace of God." -Hannah Whitall Smith-
The "Destruction" of the Wicked
Roger Tutt
A Page Of Hope
Hope 4 You, Roger Tutt
"Put together all the tenderest love you know of, multiply it by infinity, and you will begin to see glimpses of the love and grace of God." -Hannah Whitall Smith-
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he-man
he-man
Micah 4:7 ושמתי את-הצלעה לשארית והנהלאה לגוי עצום ומלך יהוה עליהם בהר ציון מעתה ועד-עולם And I will make her that halted a remnant, and her that was cast far off a strong nation: and the LORD shall reign over them in mount Zion from henceforth, even for ever. H5769 עֹלָם עוֹלָם ‛ôlâm properly concealed, that is, the vanishing point; generally time out of mind (past or future), that is, (practically) eternity; frequentative adverbially (especially with prepositional prefix) always: - always (-s), ancient (time), any more, continuance, eternal, (for, [n-]) ever (-lasting, -more, of old), lasting, long (time), (of) old (time), perpetual, at any time, (beginning of the) world (+ without end).
Compare H5331 Psalms 52:5 אהבת רע מטוב שקר מדבר צדק סלה God shall likewise destroy thee for ever, he shall take thee away, and pluck thee out of thy dwelling place, and root thee out of the land of the living. Selah. נֶצַח netsach ever (more), perpetual, strength, victory.
H5703 Isaiah 26:4 בטחו ביהוה עדי-עד כי ביה יהוה צור עולמים Trust ye in the LORD for ever: for in the LORD JEHOVAH is everlasting strength: עַד ‛ad From H5710; properly a (peremptory) terminus, that is, (by implication) duration, in the sense of perpetuity (substantially as a noun, either with or without a preposition): - eternity, ever (-lasting, -more), old, perpetually, + world without end.
eternity (n.) late 14c., "quality of being eternal," from Old French eternité "eternity, perpetuity" (12c.), from Latin aeternitatem (nominative aeternitas), from aeternus "enduring, permanent," contraction of aeviternus "of great age," from aevum "age" (from PIE root *aiw- "vital force, life; long life, eternity"). Meaning "infinite time" is from 1580s. In the Mercian hymns, Latin aeternum is glossed by Old English ecnisse.
*aiw- also *ayu-, Proto-Indo-European root meaning "vital force, life; long life, eternity." It forms all or part of: age ….eternity; ever; every
eon (n.) 1640s, from Late Latin aeon, from Greek aiōn "age, vital force; a period of existence, a lifetime, a generation; a long space of time," in plural, "eternity," from PIE root *aiw- "vital force, life, long life, eternity."
Related: Eonian; eonic.
aeon (n.) "immeasurable period of time," 1640s
everlasting early 13c., "eternal" (adj.); "eternally" (adv.); "eternity" (n.); from ever + lasting. Colloquially in mid-19c. U.S., "very …
coeternal (adj.) also co-eternal, "existing with another for eternity," late 14c., from Medieval Latin, from Late Latin coaeternus; see co- + eternal. …
ever (adv.) First element is almost certainly related to Old English a "always, ever," from Proto-Germanic *aiwi-, extended form of PIE root *aiw- "vital force, life; long life, eternity." Liberman suggests second element is comparative adjectival suffix -re.
Online Etymology Dictionary
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Dear Lazarus: I appreciate the opportunity to do just that. The calibre of individuals on these threads are a mixed bag running from lunatics still at the base of the mountain, to some who truly hunger for more of Him.
In my Father’s house are many dwelling places/ places of abode. There are various dimensions of union & communion with Him. One may be a disciple, but of the 12 there were three who had a unique relationship with the Christ, and of the three there was John who leaned upon the bosom of the Master.
Those who make their way thru great distress are the overcomers. They know the working of being hurt over & over & over again until there is nothing left to hurt. These are they who are not “hurt” by the 2nd death. There is nothing left to hurt! What a journey this is!
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Lam.3:31For the Lord will NOT cast off FOR EVER:
32But though he cause grief, yet will he have compassion according to the multitude of his mercies.
33For he doth not afflict willingly nor grieve THE CHILDREN OF MEN. (KJV, emphasis mine)
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5 Yet God will make you a permanent heap of ruins. He will scoop you up and remove you from your home; he will uproot you from the land of the living. (NET Bible)
5 But El, He shall break you down permanently; He shall rake you up and tear you out from your tent, And He will root you out from the land of the living. (CLV)
5 But God will take you down permanently; he will snatch you up, tear you out of your tent, and uproot you from the land of the living! (CEB)
The context refers not to the afterlife or final destiny, but to "the land of the living" (v.5).
Is a "permanent" driver's licence a licence "for ever"? No.
Besides a meaning of "for ever" the word "permanent" can mean:
1. "holding something (such as an office) for life"
2. "indefinitely long-continued"
3. "continuously throughout the season"
Definition of PERPETUAL
Compare eonian, aeonian:
"lasting for an immeasurably or indefinitely long period of time"
" *aeonian,* from Greek *aiṓnios* "lasting an age, perpetual" (derivative of *aiṓn* [EON](Definition of EON)) + [-ANentry 2](Definition of -AN *aeonic* from [EON](Definition of EON) + [-IC entry 1](Definition of -IC)
Definition of AEONIAN
...Psalm 86:9
9 All nations whom thou hast made shall come and worship before thee, O Lord; and shall glorify thy name.
Psalm 22:27-28
27 All the ends of the world shall remember and turn unto the LORD: and all the kindreds of the nations shall worship before thee. 28 For the kingdom is the LORD’S:
and he is the governor among the nations.
Psalm 72:11
11 Yea, all kings shall fall down before him: all nations shall serve him.
Psalm 72:17
17 His name shall endure for ever: his name shall be continued as long as the sun: and men shall be blessed in him: all nations shall call him blessed.
ALL the ENDS of the world shall turn unto the Lord.
Psalm 145:9-10
9 The LORD is good to all: and his tender mercies are over all his works.
10 All thy works shall praise thee, O LORD; and thy saints shall bless thee.
Psalm 136:1
O give thanks unto the LORD; for he is good: for his mercy endureth for ever.
Gods mercy endures for ever over ALL HIS WORKS.
12 points re forever and ever (literally to/into "the ages of the ages") being finite:
For the Lord will NOT cast off FOR EVER:
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he-man
he-man
Are you dreaming?
Deuteronomy 13:5 But that prophet or that dreamer of dreams shall be put to death, because he has spoken in order to turn you away from the LORD your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt and redeemed you from the house of bondage, to entice you from the way in which the LORD your God commanded you to walk. So you shall put away the evil from your midst.
2 Thessalonians 1:9 who shall pay the penalty of everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his might, [DARBY]
G5099 τίνω tinō Strengthened for a primary word τίω tiō (which is only used as an alternate in certain tenses); to pay a price, that is, as a penalty
McReynolds Word Study Greek- English New Testament = τινω a price, I Pay [BAG, Louw-Nida]
G166 αἰώνιος aiōnios From G165; perpetual (also used of past time, or past and future as well): - eternal, for ever, everlasting, world (began).
עַד ‛ad From H5710; properly a (peremptory) terminus, that is, (by implication) duration, in the sense of perpetuity (substantially as a noun, either with or without a preposition): - eternity, ever (-lasting, -more), old, perpetually, + world without end.
McReynolds Word Study Greek- English New Testament = αἰώνιος Eternal used 71 times [BAG, Louw-Nida, Kittel, Strong] 1 John 3:15 '... no murderer hath eternal life..."
G3639 ὄλεθρος olethros From ὄλλυμι ollumi a primary word (to destroy; a prolonged form); ruin, that is, death, punishment: - destruction.
McReynolds Word Study Greek- English New Testament = ὄλεθρος Ruin; destruction used 4 Times, [BAG P. 563, Louw-Nida P. 173, C BROWN P. 465, Kittel P168,] 1 Corinthians 5:5; 1 Thessalonians 5:3 sudden destruction cometh upon them; 1 Timothy 6:9 drown men in destruction and perdition;
2 Thessalonians 1:9
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Sir, can you tell me what the "Emphatic Dialog 1942" is? Or did you mean the New Testament translation called the "Emphatic Diaglott"? Emphatic Diaglott - Wikipedia
The 1864 version of the Emphatic Diaglott by Benjamin Wilson did not say "everlasting destruction", but "destruction age-lasting":
9 who a just penalty shall pay, destruction age-lasting, from face to the Lord and from the glory of the strength of him
A Greek lexicon at the following url states re the Greek word olethron ("destruction") at 2 Thess.1:9:
"...Hierocles 14, 451b has the thought that the soul of the sinner in Hades is purified by the tortures of hell, and is saved thereby..."
ὄλεθρος — с греческого на все языки
As does p.702 of "A Greek–English Lexicon of the New Testament and Other Early Christian Literature, 3rd ed. (BDAG)":
A Greek–English Lexicon of the New Testament and Other Early Christian Literature, 3rd ed. (BDAG)
https://www.amazon.ca/Greek-English-Lexicon-Testament-Christian-Literature/dp/0226039331
Compare that above statement to:
"In Ancient Greek mythology, Olethros was the personification of Havoc and probably one of the Makhai. Olethros translates roughly in ancient Greek to "destruction", but often with a positive connotation, as in the destruction required for and preceding renewal."
The Greek word aionios, erroneously translated above as "everlasting", is the same Greek word that is often deceptively translated as eternal or everlasting at Mt.25:46.
2 Thess.1:9 is not a difficult text to reconcile with the Scriptural teaching of universal reconciliation(UR). Simply put it speaks of an indefinite duration (=aionias, often deceptively rendered eternal/everlasting) of destruction.
Therefore, whatever you understand by the word "destruction" - whether death, annihilation or ruin - the text is perfectly harmonious with UR passages of the Bible. Problem solved. Now you can rejoice in the Good News!
2Thess.1:9 Who, indeed, a penalty, shall pay—age-abiding destruction from the face of the Lord and from the glory of his might— (Rotherham)
9 who shall incur the justice of eonian extermination from the face of the Lord, and from the glory of His strength" (CLNT)
who shall suffer justice -- destruction age-during -- from the face of the Lord, and from the glory of his strength, (2 Thess 1:9, YLT)
A recent new translation by EO scholar David Bentley Hart reads: "Who shall pay the just reparation of ruin in the Age, coming from the face of the Lord and the glory of his might" (A Translation: The New Testament, 2017, Yale University Press).
Regarding the mistranslation "everlasting" or "eternal" in 2 Thess.1:9: "166 aiṓnios (an adjective, derived from 165 /aiṓn ("an age, having a particular character and quality") –
properly, "age-like" ("like-an-age"), i.e. an "age-characteristic" (the quality describing a particular age);..." Strong's Greek: 166. ???????
(aiónios) -- agelong, eternal
A Greek lexicon at the following url states re the Greek word olethron ("destruction") at 2 Thess.1:9:
"...Hierocles 14, 451b has the thought that the soul of the sinner in Hades is purified by the tortures of hell, and is saved thereby..."
ὄλεθρος — с греческого на все языки
As does p.702 of "A Greek–English Lexicon of the New Testament and Other Early Christian Literature, 3rd ed. (BDAG)":
A Greek–English Lexicon of the New Testament and Other Early Christian Literature, 3rd ed. (BDAG)
https://www.amazon.ca/Greek-English-Lexicon-Testament-Christian-Literature/dp/0226039331
Compare that above statement to:
"In Ancient Greek mythology, Olethros was the personification of Havoc and probably one of the Makhai. Olethros translates roughly in ancient Greek to "destruction", but often with a positive connotation, as in the destruction required for and preceding renewal."
Here we see "destruction" is for the good of the person:
... deliver such a one to Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus. (1Cor 5:5)
He who is finding his soul will be destroying it, and he who destroys his soul on My account will be finding it. (Mt.10:39)
Here we see destruction was temporary:
Jesus answered them, "Destroy this temple, and I will raise it again in three days." (Jn.2:19)
"Does the eschatological destruction of 2 Thessalonians 1:9 exclude all redemptive possibilities? Nothing in the text requires such a reading." Continued at:
Thomas Talbott: The Inescapable Love of God (part 5)
II Thessalonians 1:8-9
Further re 2 Thess.1:9, Jason Pratt said:
"Which definitely refers to hopeful punishment (and expected salvation in the same day of the Lord to come), not annihilation, when Paul uses it to talk about handing the Stepmom-Sleeping Guy over to Satan for the whole-destruction of the flesh in 1 Cor 5:5.
"Paul compares it to a birth-pang, which is dangerous but hardly hopeless annihilation (and is generally regarded as very hopeful) at 1 Thess 5:3 (talking about the same day to come).
"Paul uses the term to describe people killed by God in the past at 1 Cor 10:10, which can hardly be annihilation unless the resurrection of the evil as well as the good is denied.
"2 Thess 1:9 uses phrases similar to those found in Isaiah 2, talking about the same coming event, which is part of a block of prophecy where those wholly ruined aren't annihilated, but eventually repent of their sins and go to the "survivors" of God's wrath to be reconciled to God, which God accepts washing them clean with spirit and with fire. (Isaiah 4.) Again, far from a result of hopeless annihilation.
"2 Thess 1 is actually one of my scriptural testimonies 'for' universal salvation."
Annihilation places huge doubt on Universalism
Lamentations 3:22 and 3:31-33, The steadfast love of the Lord NEVER ceases, his mercies NEVER come to an end. . . .
Lam.3:31 For the Lord will NOT cast off FOR EVER:
32 For if He causes grief, Then He will have compassion According to His abundant lovingkindness. 33 For He does not afflict willingly Or grieve the SONS OF MEN.…
Rom 5:18 Consequently, then, as it was through one offense for ALL MANKIND for condemnation, thus also it is through one just act for ALL MANKIND for life's justifying."
Rom 5:19 For even as, through the disobedience of the one man, THE MANY were constituted sinners, thus also, through the obedience of the One, THE MANY shall be constituted just."
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Romans Chapter 5 - Weymouth New Testament
Rotherham Emphasized
Romans 5 Having, therefore, been declared righteous by faith, let us have, peace, towards God, through our Lord Jesus Christ,—
Jonathan Mitchell N.T.
::Jonathan Mitchell's New Testament Translation::
James Moffatt
Romans 5 As we are justified by faith, then, let us enjoy the peace we have with God through our Lord Jesus Christ.
Twenthieth Century N.T.
Romans 5 Therefore, having been pronounced righteous as the result of faith, let us enjoy peace with God through Jesus Christ, our Lord.
English Standard Version
Romans 5 - NIV Bible - Therefore, since we have been justified through...
Young's Literal
Romans 5 - NIV Bible - Therefore, since we have been justified through...
The Message
Romans 5 - NIV Bible - Therefore, since we have been justified through...
New Revised Standard
Romans 5 - NIV Bible - Therefore, since we have been justified through...
Compare
Bible Verses by Comparison, Read Verses Using All Translations Side by Side
Romans 5:18 - Consequently, just as one trespass resulted in condemnation for all people, so also one righteous act resulted in justification and life for all people.
Rotherham Emphasized
Romans 5 Having, therefore, been declared righteous by faith, let us have, peace, towards God, through our Lord Jesus Christ,—
Jonathan Mitchell N.T.
::Jonathan Mitchell's New Testament Translation::
James Moffatt
Romans 5 As we are justified by faith, then, let us enjoy the peace we have with God through our Lord Jesus Christ.
Twenthieth Century N.T.
Romans 5 Therefore, having been pronounced righteous as the result of faith, let us enjoy peace with God through Jesus Christ, our Lord.
English Standard Version
Romans 5 - NIV Bible - Therefore, since we have been justified through...
Young's Literal
Romans 5 - NIV Bible - Therefore, since we have been justified through...
The Message
Romans 5 - NIV Bible - Therefore, since we have been justified through...
New Revised Standard
Romans 5 - NIV Bible - Therefore, since we have been justified through...
Compare
Bible Verses by Comparison, Read Verses Using All Translations Side by Side
Romans 5:18 - Consequently, just as one trespass resulted in condemnation for all people, so also one righteous act resulted in justification and life for all people.
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Series One
The Child in the Mist
The Consuming Fire
The Higher Faith
It Shall Not Be Forgiven
The New Name
The Heart With The Treasure
The Temptation in the Wilderness
The Eloi
The Hands of The Father
Love Thy Neighbour
Love Thine Enemy
The God of The Living
Series Two
The Way
The Hardness of The Many
The Cause of Spiritual Stupidity
The Word of Jesus on Prayer
Man's Difficulty Concerning Prayer
The Last Farthing
Abba, Father!
Life
The Fear of God
The Voice of Job
Self-Denial
The Truth in Jesus
Series Three
The Creation of Christ
The Knowing of The Son
The Mirrors of The Lord
The Truth
Freedom
Kingship
Justice
Light
The Displeasure of Jesus
Righteousness
The Final Unmasking
The Inheritance
Unspoken Sermons by George MacDonald. Search eText, Read Online, Study, Discuss.
The Child in the Mist
The Consuming Fire
The Higher Faith
It Shall Not Be Forgiven
The New Name
The Heart With The Treasure
The Temptation in the Wilderness
The Eloi
The Hands of The Father
Love Thy Neighbour
Love Thine Enemy
The God of The Living
Series Two
The Way
The Hardness of The Many
The Cause of Spiritual Stupidity
The Word of Jesus on Prayer
Man's Difficulty Concerning Prayer
The Last Farthing
Abba, Father!
Life
The Fear of God
The Voice of Job
Self-Denial
The Truth in Jesus
Series Three
The Creation of Christ
The Knowing of The Son
The Mirrors of The Lord
The Truth
Freedom
Kingship
Justice
Light
The Displeasure of Jesus
Righteousness
The Final Unmasking
The Inheritance
Unspoken Sermons by George MacDonald. Search eText, Read Online, Study, Discuss.
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