And as we cannot know when he is coming all this is irrelevent
Daniel 8 has nothing to do with the 2nd coming of Christ, so still not following you.
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And as we cannot know when he is coming all this is irrelevent
Maybe born in Greece. He comes out of one the four breakup kingdoms with a strong army. It doesn't mean that he will be born there.
The person may be born in Rome, because he is from the people who destroyed the city and temple.
To me, we don't have enough concrete information to say for sure where he will be born.
Incorrect, it is not the entire vision. Greece did not conquer Persia and then split into 4 kingdoms within 2,300 evenings and mornings.It is the vision that covers a 2300 days timeframe.
It is not known how many daily twice-during-the-day sacrifices will actually be made, because it is not known when during that 2300 day timeframe the person with stop that daily sacrifice.
The 2300 days information allows it to be determined when the sacrifices will start again*. But it does inform what exact day when it will be stopped.
Daniel 8 has nothing to do with the 2nd coming of Christ, so still not following you.
What is yet to be fulfilled is Daniel 8:9-14, which is also meaning Daniel 8:19-26.
It is not 2300 lambs that are sacrificed It is 2300 days, of which there will be lambs sacrificed during that time as part of the prophecy time.If the angel meant 2,300 "days", AND NOT 2,300 evening and mornings, then I would see your point. But the angel didn't
Since the vision involves the "daily sacrifice (hattamid)" then using scripture to interpret scripture, we can understand that the "evenings and mornings" are related to the "daily sacrifice". THEREFORE, the 2,300 evenings and mornings are 2,300 "daily sacrifices (hattamid)"
****So, I'll ask again, how many days would it take to sacrifice 2,300 lambs (the daily sacrifice "hattamid")?
It clearly says right here in black and white---Unto two thousand and three hundred days;
I disagree. It seems many imagine the man of sin will be killed. That is not what the word really tells us: it is ONE HEAD that receives a deadly wound.
No, the heads are kings, not kingdoms, in the text.And we see that heads are leaders of nations or the nation itself. Many people list the heads as Egypt, Assyria, Babylon, Medo-Persia, Greece, (as the five who are fallen) and then Rome and finally the head still to come. So it is one of these nations that is defeated and its "head" killed. What happened to Iraq (Babylon) in our recent history? The nation was defeated and the leader hung to death. Is that a deadly wound? I would say so. This meaning Iraq is only my opinion.
It is not 2300 lambs that are sacrificed. It is 2300 days
The other parts are that the person commits the transgression of desolation act. And the host (the Jews) to be trodden under foot. And the temple being desolate until it is cleansed. (The KJV says cleansed.)
Daniel 8:13-14 Then I heard a holy one speaking, and another holy one said to the one who spoke, “For how long is the vision concerning the daily burnt offering, the transgression that makes desolate, and the giving over of the sanctuary and host to be trampled underfoot?” 14And he said to me,c “For 2,300 evenings and mornings. Then the sanctuary shall be restored to its rightful state.”
It is not 2300 days of sacrificing lambs.
Only part of the 2300 days involves sacrificing lambs, because the little stops it.
because the person will be claiming to be God and sitting in the temple during that time.
It is equivalent to saying 2300 days, and is used because for part of that time there will be the evening and morning lambs offered.First, it doesn't say 2,300 "days". The Hebrews word for day (yom) is not found in Daniel 8:14. It says evening (ereb) morning (boqer).
The Jewish days does not start in the AM. It starts in the evening at sundown - which evenings are listed first in the prophecy.ow, if Daniel 8:14 stated for 2,300 days (yom) and 2,300 nights (layil). I would agree with you. BUT IT DOESN'T SAY THAT.
It is not stated in Daniel 8 that he claims to be God. That he claims to be God comes from when he goes into the temple, sits, claims to be God in 2Thessalonians 2:4. which triggers the day of the Lord, and them saying peace and safety at the time shall not escape in 1Thessalonians5:2-3. Which is the transgression of desolation act in Daniel 8:13.Please provide verse in Daniel 8, that specifically states this
Very good points.I disagree
LITTLE HORN OF DANIEL 8 AND 7 ARE NOT THE SAME
1.) they have different origins:
Little horn of Daniel 8 origin: the 4 kingdoms that come from Greece are: Seleucids, Ptolemy, Lysimachus, and Cassendar. These kingdoms were still Greek as they Hellenized their subjects. Antiochus Epihpanes (little horn) came at the "latter end" of the Seleucid kingdom.
Daniel 8:22-23 As for the horn that was broken, in place of which four others arose, four kingdoms shall arise from his nation, BUT NOT WITH HIS POWER. And at the latter end of their kingdom, when the transgressors have reached their limit, a king of bold face, one who understands riddles, shall arise.
The book of Maccabees lets us know that the Seleucid empire is still the kingdom of the Greeks
1 Maccabees 1:10 From them came forth a sinful root, Antiochus Epiphanes, son of King Antiochus; he had been a hostage in Rome. He began to reign in the one hundred thirty-seventh year of the kingdom of the Greeks
Little horn of Daniel 7 origin: 4th kingdom after Greek: Roman
Daniel 7:19-20 “Then I desired to know the truth about the fourth beast, which was different from all the rest, exceedingly terrifying, with its teeth of iron and claws of bronze, and which devoured and broke in pieces and stamped what was left with its feet, and about the ten horns that were on its head, and the other horn that came up and before which three of them fell, the horn that had eyes and a mouth that spoke great things, and that seemed greater than its companions.
2.) Different lengths of time for trampling God's people:
The little horn of Daniel 8 tramples for 1150 days
Daniel 8:14 And he said to me,“For 2,300 evenings and mornings. Then the sanctuary shall be restored to its rightful state.”
The little horn of Daniel 7 tramples for time, times, half a time
Daniel 7:25 and they shall be given into his hand for a time, times, and half a time.
The HUGE problem with your post is, you are in error and don't know it. Daniel 8 is not about our future - AT ALL. You are pulling verses out of their context. It is about Medo-Persia, the Greece. And in the later time of THEIR (that is the Grecian) kingdoms, Antiochus becomes king. And he does very bad things to Israel, and so becomes a TYPE of the Beast. All your Daniel 8 references are pulled out of that context. The man of sin turned beast does not die: one of the heads (Kingdoms with a king) dies.It is equivalent to saying 2300 days, and is used because for part of that time there will be the evening and morning lambs offered.
The Jewish days does not start in the AM. It starts in the evening at sundown - which evenings are listed first in the prophecy.
It is not stated in Daniel 8 that he claims to be God. That he claims to be God comes from when he goes into the temple, sits, claims to be God in 2Thessalonians 2:4. which triggers the day of the Lord, and them saying peace and safety at the time shall not escape in 1Thessalonians5:2-3. Which is the transgression of desolation act in Daniel 8:13.
It doesn't say what the transgression of desolation act in Daniel 8:13 is in Daniel 8.
But it is pieced together from other parts of the bible, based on information given in Daniel 8, like the person magnifying himself in his heart. Which is a key in Ezekiel 28:1-10 of why God has him killed for sitting in the seat of God claiming to be God.
Your question is like asking where does it say in Daniel 8 that the Princes of princes in Daniel 8:25 that he stands up against - is Jesus.
Daniel 8:13 transgression of desolation
Daniel 8:25 magnifies himself in his heart
Daniel 8:25 stands up against the Prince of princes
2 Thessalonians2:4 claims to be God, sitting in the temple
Ezekiel 28:2 magnifies himself in heart claims to be God, sitting in God's seat, and killed.
Isaiah 14:19-20 brought back to life, kicked out of the grave
Revelation 13:3 mortally wounded, but healed
Revelation 19:19-20, stands up against Jesus, the Prince of princes, but is destroyed.
All of those go together.
Simple, he does not believe the truth of Daniel 8 - that it is about Antiochus, NOT someone in our future.I guess I don't understand why you are placing this in the future, when Antiochus fulfilled Daniel 8 to a tee in the 2nd century BCE.
The person becomes the revealed man of sin by going into the temple, sitting, claiming to be God, in 2Thessalonian2:4.The man of sin turned beast does not die: one of the heads (Kingdoms with a king) dies.
I take this to mean that on the 2301st day, the daily sacrifices would continue. By the way, EVERY SINGLE day has an "evening" and a "morning." Good job, claninja.Incorrect, it is not the entire vision. Greece did not conquer Persia and then split into 4 kingdoms within 2,300 evenings and mornings.
Daniel specifically asked about the time frame of the regular burnt offering ceasing, the transgression that makes desolate, and the trampling of host and sanctuary, not the entire vision
Daniel 8:13 Then I heard a holy one speaking, and another holy one said to the one who spoke, “For how long is the vision concerning the regular burnt offering, the transgression that makes desolate, and the giving over of the sanctuary and host to be trampled underfoot?”
What? We exactly know: 2,300
yes it does. It was stopped for 2,300 evenings and mornings.
Daniel 8:13 Then I heard a holy one speaking, and another holy one said to the one who spoke, “For HOW LONG is the vision concerning the regular burnt offering, the transgression that makes desolate, and the giving over of the sanctuary and host to be trampled underfoot?”
Daniel 8:14 he said to me,c “For 2,300 evenings and mornings.
Ezekiel 28 is not about the man of sin. There is simply no way to positively connect either of these passages to the man of sin. Of course, one can always imagine....The person becomes revealed man of sin by going into the temple, sitting, claiming to be God.
That is what gets him killed in Ezekiel 28:1-10. Then brought back to life in Isaiah 14:18-19, to be the beasts.
I gave you the way...Ezekiel 28 is not about the man of sin. There is simply no way to positively connect either of these passages to the man of sin. Of course, one can always imagine....