The question cessationists must answer.

LoveofTruth said:

No, I base it on Paul's own words about himself Silvanus and Timotheous when they all wrote to the church and it is written of them,

"1 Paul, and Silvanus, and Timotheus, unto the church of the Thessalonians...6 ...neither of you,... when we might have been burdensome, as the apostles of Christ."(1 Thessalonians 1;1, 2:6 KJV)

Notice he directly refers to them in that verse and he says "we" plural, )not I _ and he uses the plural "apostles"

There is no denying this to the unbiased reader. It is as clear as the Sun reflecting in every dew drop in the morning, to those who are looking.

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LoveofTruth said:

and what verse are you quoting in your theory?

I am familiar with one you may be referring to but it does not say what you try to make it say.

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LoveofTruth said:

Paul said simply that he saw the Lord he actually says many others did also, and they were not all called with apostle gifts. We read

"6 After that, he was seen of above five hundred brethren at once; of whom the greater part remain unto this present, but some are fallen asleep."(1 Corinthians 15:6 KJV)

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Alithis said:

Nope . an ear tickling theology goes around saying nono its ok you just keep right on sinning don't you worry..
People actually hate what i preach ..i..its called repentance .trning from doing evil works.
And you cant use that verse unless you are living according to it.
What have you ever given up to follow JESUS?
When your not even willing to gove up sin?

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Francis Drake said:

No matter how much scripture knowledge you claim, unless you also have revelation of the Holy Spirit, its nothing more than carnality, the Tree of Knowledge. Eating of the Tree of Knowledge brings death, even if that knowledge is bible knowledge.

But even with no bible knowledge, revelation from the Lord brings life.

My parents were not believers, but I first encountered the Lord in my bedroom, alone as a child.
Sometime later in early teens, whilst out in the street, I heard him speak to me again, this time he told me things I would later discover in scripture.
But it would be another ten years or so before I was shown the bible, I then realised it was talking about the God I already knew!

So do not presume to tell me that God doesn't speak or give revelation today. I have been hearing him for well over 50 years!

Just because your heart is hardened to hearing his voice, don't expect the same of others.

But here's a scripture written specially for you swordsman, and take note, it is repeated 3 times in succession. I suspect the writer thinks it is most important.-
Hebrews3v7 Wherefore (as the Holy Ghost saith, To day if ye will hear his voice,
8Harden not your hearts, as in the provocation, in the day of temptation in the wilderness:

and again-
12Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God. 13...…
15While it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts, as in the provocation.

and again-
Heb4v6Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief:
7Again, he limiteth a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts.

To insist that God doesn't speak today flies in the face of this and many other scriptures in OT and NT.
I suggest you repent somewhat, and start listening for that voice.

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Francis Drake said:

You are the one who boasts you only follow to the bible, but you don't follow the bible at all, you follow your own opinion of the bible, mangling and twisting the words to suit your own agenda of rampant unbelief.

So tell us all, what authority gives you the right to cancel at the stroke of your pen, the commandments of Jesus in Mark16?

But to claim that scripture was fulfilled in Acts is arrogant hypocrisy, designed just to get yourself off the hook.
Here's that verse again. Lets have a look at it.
Mark16v15And He said to them, “Go into all the world and preach the gospel to all creation.
Has the gospel gone to all the world? Nope!
Has it been preached to all creation? Nope!
Even the very first verse proves you wrong.

16“He who has believed and has been baptized shall be saved; but he who has disbelieved shall be condemned. 17“These signs will accompany those who have believed: in My name they will cast out demons, they will speak with new tongues;

The first verse is still an ongoing ministry, and so is all the rest.

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Francis Drake said:

Another evasive question from someone who claims to only follow the bible.

You do know that the four gospels are not all the same don't you?

You do know they cover all the same events, but describe them from different viewpoints don't you?

You do know that they are all inerrant scriptures don't you?

You do know that if something is found in one gospel, but not another, it doesn't mean someone got it wrong?

You do know that you have to look at all the gospels to get the full story don't you?

You do know that just because you don't like something in one gospel, you can't just ignore it by looking at a different gospel?

You do know that the great commission as given in Mark and Matthew, both apply.

You do know that claiming one gospel has precedence over another is just silly, don't you?

You do know that asking me, "Where in the Great Commission of Mathew was demon casting out commanded to be done?" was just a scam to avoid answering my questions.

So, YeshuaFan, how's your deliverance ministry coming on? Cast any interesting demons out lately?

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Francis Drake said:

As always, you go off at a tangent to avoid answering the questions about God's gift of healing today..

Waxing lyrical about your wonderful resurrection body is irrelevant to someone who is suffering and in pain.

From your infantile theology, it seems the best thing you have to offer is the needle that some of your states use at the end of their death rows.

Decades ago, my wife had a beautiful gold ring with precious jewels in it. It was an antique, a family heirloom. Unfortunately, it had worn thin and was in danger of breaking. So we took it to the jewellers to see if they could repair it.
They took ages and delayed repeatedly when we called to see if it was ready. Finally we went to collect it, but what they gave us was a totally different ring. The settings were much thicker and heavier. I don't know if the stones were the same or not as we couldn't tell.

It was no longer a family heirloom and no longer a valuable antique. The ring had not been repaired, and what we now had was a complete fake and of no value to us.

When people talk about the gift of healing, and you start to rabbit on about your resurrection body and getting to heaven, you are doing the same thing, faking it.
Your old body has not been repaired and you have certainly not experienced God's healing.

To claim otherwise is pure fraud.

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Francis Drake said:

@YeshuaFan , you appear to have missed my post No1536, so I've posted the main content of it here.
Given that you reject the idea that God speaks to his children, can you explain this event for me?

About 30 years ago, after my wife's car was stolen, I was indignant and asked the Lord to do something about it. Two days later, as I was at a trade counter buying some plumbing materials, I distinctly heard the Lord tell me to drive down a certain street and I would find my wife's car.

I paid for my goods and then set off to find that street. As I slowly cruised down that street, there was my wife's car parked on the forecourt of a shop, the thieves obviously inside!

There was a police station at the end of that road, so I raced back and very quickly told the desk sergeant. I then raced back and waited for the boys in blue to come and do their job. The thieves were arrested along with a whole load of stolen goods and credit cards.

That is revelation today, received through a word of knowledge. The Lord does such things for those who listen.

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Billy Evmur said:

You have to show that in the life of Jesus, He IS God. did He ever say to anyone who came to Him "no I will not heal you." Did the apostles ever say so?

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Alithis said:

Because your resisting what he already said ,by teaching that it does not apply to you today.
Of course if we ate going to do that youll have to consistant and apply it to all scripture. Not just your fav ones

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NBB said:

There is a huge amount of things that are not explicit said in the bible.

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NBB said:

You can have spirits, i mean not possesed, but the evil spirits are there from your past life, and they just don't go away when you convert, it may God delivers you of something but a lot of spiritual problems related to the devil, can still be there long after you convert.

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Alithis said:

your doing the same thing as the people you accuse.
you teach cessationism
a man made tradition baed upon opinion not scripture.
youve told us numerous times you dont base your opinions on scripture- your words.
which leaves you man made fallible traditions.

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Alithis said:

oh your a word game player.
have you recieved the holy Spirit and do you speak in tongues, heal the sick, prophecy ,dream dreams, have visions are you FREE from sin ?

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W2L said:

No, im simply refuting your assertion. As for your question, I have love in my heart for those with mental health issues who suffer at the hands of charismatic extremists. Does that count?

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swordsman1 said:

Pentecostalism's claim that is it the "Full gospel" is an affront to the redemptive work of Christ. It implies the gospel is somehow lacking and you do not have the 'full gospel' unless you subscribe to Pentecostalism.

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swordsman1 said:

Then how do you explain the thousands of Christians with cancer who have prayed to God for healing, but did not received it and subsequently died? God did not grant their healing did he.

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YeshuaFan said:

Hard to be helped with mental illness issues if just seen as being a demon that needs to get casted out...

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NBB said:

Woah, like a true cessationist there!, if you say God opening your eyes to spiritual truths, or things that the Holy spirit do are 'subjective' experiences you can't rely on, then you are more mistaken.

The spiritual truths need to be revealed to you by God, either with understanding from God or an experience, you don't get them by just reading a phrase.

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Francis Drake said:

But swordsman you are not being reviled for the name of Christ at all.
It is your proclamation of the demonic doctrines of cessationism that is being reviled

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Billy Evmur said:

There are many and vexacious reasons why this is so, not least that 80% of the church do not believe that healing is included in salvation, don't believe it don't preach it, don't expect it so don't receive it.

The church is backslidden, how come so many, many Christians are living sinful lifestyles?

I would not say [never, never] that every sin is linked to individual sin but it is linked to faith.

Look suppose you were sick, but you were not sure if healing is from God? if God were to heal you, you would always have a worry, a doubt in your mind as to whether or not your healing was from God or was a deception. Your trust in God so far as the salvation of your soul is so much more important.

Let me say this. the promise for healing is as rock solid in scripture as the promise of pardon, in fact they are in the very same passages of scripture, there is not a Christian ever born who doubts the portion concerning pardon but they do doubt the portion concerning healing.

Until healing is preached and believed in [by preachers] with the same faith and certainty as pardon we will never see the great works as witnessed in the bible.

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